Who wants these Bitcoin scaling wars to end?

[Kakmakr]

For months now, we have seen a verbal battle raging between Bitcoin Core and BU teams and supporters. We have seen personal attacks on people that were at one stage, crucial to the growth of Bitcoin. Some of these people made some big sacrifices to strengthen this experiment. < both in time & money >

~ How can we come together and find some common goal to resolve these issues?
~ Can we leave our personal vendettas behind and move forward?
~ Can we forget about greed and personal interest and put this experiment first again?
~ What would be the white flag moment for both parties to this fight?

Yes, Bitcoin was developed in such a way to make room for these kinds of battles, but things are getting out of hand and personal attacks are quite common these days. We are not civil anymore and most debates are getting very personal and heated.

A lot of power and money are at stake, but let's be civil about this and see if we can appreciate each others opinion without having to resort to "dirty" tactics to destroy the other person or team.

Be the first person to shake the other persons hand and you will see what will happen. ^smile^

Edit : Please DO NOT turn this into another scaling debate, but rather focus on ways to come together to solve these ugly battles.

[Nagadota]

~ How can we come together and find some common goal to resolve these issues?

The common goal is to scale.  Unfortunately, some people don't even recognise that the other side is scaling Bitcoin too, thinking that it's impractical/doesn't count as scaling.

~ Can we leave our personal vendettas behind and move forward?

Some of us can.  If anyone lets their guard down though, they feel attacked, and then they put it up again which is the main problem I'd say.

~ Can we forget about greed and personal interest and put this experiment first again?

Probably not.  Too much money involved.

~ What would be the white flag moment for both parties to this fight?

There isn't really one, both sides and, even more so, development teams are stubborn as hell.

[OmegaStarScream]

The only way to end the war and move on is by getting one of the proposals activated. Even though, I doubt people will use Bitcoin Unlimited with all the scandals that appeared in the last a few weeks. As for the personal attacks, I believe that Jihan, Roger ver and others are getting them just because of they trying to achieve some personal interest which you mentioned.

[jingsu1]

We need consensus on improving the chain to improve BTC. The alternate coins like ETH are catching up because the current block times are slow, and confirmations take forever. We need to scale.

[d5000]

The only way to end the war and move on is by getting one of the proposals activated.

My personal hope is that the imminent activation of Segwit in Litecoin could bring pressure to the miners for a compromise on a scaling solution (at least for a malleability fix). I don't think the original Segwit proposal has actually a chance to get 95%, but it seems that at least >50% are possible as currently the adoption rate is going up, and then it's perhaps a question of negotiating again some kind of compromise like Segwit2MB.

I agree with the OP that the mutual allegations and personal attacks should cool down a bit. How to do it? Well, at least the Asicboost controversy has a solution: deploy an UASF to disable covert usage. As Asicboost has only marginally something to do with the scaling debate, this could bring more honesty into the debate - because if there is no hashrate change after the UASF activation the accusations to Bitmain are probably simply false and the accusations should end, but if there is a change then the BU supporters should be able to distance themselves from Bitmain.

We should also agree that there are multiple ways to scale, and try to be exact in what we write - e.g. not confuse "Segwit" with "LN" and not "BU" with "big blockers" or even "Bitmain".

[ImHash]

You guys are all delusional, none of our opinions matter and nobody gives a penny to our thoughts, who do we think we are princes and princesses?
You all talk like everyone are saints with the best hearts, no people from the start were different and that's how a world with intelligent being given the free will works just get used to it, we're talking about millions and billions of dollars, there are people easily killing as many other people just for $1000 a head.
People can't even make peace with their God knowing He exist because they want whatever in front of them they want to have everything in this world dude being friends and shaking hands means sacrificing, putting aside differences, doing good without expecting anything in return.
But look how the world works are we all doing those things? don't we have nuclear bombs (antbleed)?
Don't we have terrorists (spammers/ attackers/ hackers)?

Only hash power matters and hash power shall speak for itself.

[Patatas]

The only way to end the war and move on is by getting one of the proposals activated. Even though, I doubt people will use Bitcoin Unlimited with all the scandals that appeared in the last a few weeks. As for the personal attacks, I believe that Jihan, Roger ver and others are getting them just because of they trying to achieve some personal interest which you mentioned.

In my humble opinion,
 ->Fuck Roger Ver'
 ->Fuck Jihan
 ->Fuck Bitcoin Unlimited
 Why are we even letting a few fuck-heads decide the future of bitcoin ? Give  control back to the  developers,let them do what's best.Also I'm tired of waiting forever for the transactions to confirm.

[Patatas]

Patatas, please respect the OP's request and take your mudslinging elsewhere. Such comments are not welcome here.

Out of all the comments posted above,you only think my comment instigates things ? I don't think so.
This is merely a discussion/argument.I didn't even hate your idols (if you worship the members mentioned above).All I tried to portray is we should stop bragging about it and find the solution by 'actually coding things' over 'endless arguments'.I'm out.

[NUFCrichard]

I think that discussion about improvements should always happen.  There will always be diagreements about the future of Bitcoin, especially between the miners and the users.
I do think that there should be a voting system, where the mining hashpower counts as a vote in a certain time period.  The side that wins in that time period wins, the other side loses.

Right now it seems ongoing and never ending, it is like an election that waits until the results change before counting the votes.  As son as BU has enough votes, we fork, but until then the election goes on!

[spartacusrex]

They'll end eventually.

When no-one give 2 shits about BTC anymore.

That's what's happening right now. Every other ALT coin in town is going super nova as the king flounders and splutters.

I think there is a misconception that this war CAN end, when it will just drag on.. and on..

What happens the next time we want to upgrade something ? Like the Scripting language.. sheesh.. 

Another war ? No thanks..

The idea that HASH power can solve all our issues, is starting to ring hollow. Look at the current situation. Stuck. in a rut.

Miners can't change shit : Is my take-away from this cluster f**k.

Maybe it is up to the EASILY LARGEST group, the 'Users', to sort this out.. Don't know how.. .. (UASF is ... La La Land..)

[mindrust]

The solution is very easy. Wu needs to stop being malicious and accept segwit like he did with litecoin. Enable Segwit and make bitcoin great again. Any other solution including a BU HF ain't a solution.

[dinofelis]

My theory is that these "wars" are nothing else but the immutability dynamics of bitcoin at work, that protects the protocol from being changed, because so many antagonists cannot come to an agreement over change, in the same way that so many antagonists cannot agree over a re-writing of the block chain, rewinding all their spendings, but none of their receipts, and hence keep the block chain immutable.

[spartacusrex]

Wu needs to stop being malicious and accept segwit like he did with litecoin. Enable Segwit and make bitcoin great again.

Scariest thing about this whole situation.. One twat gets to decide the fate of Bitcoin !?.. That's not cool.

[dinofelis]

Wu needs to stop being malicious and accept segwit like he did with litecoin. Enable Segwit and make bitcoin great again.

Scariest thing about this whole situation.. One twat gets to decide the fate of Bitcoin !?.. That's not cool.

This illustrates the de facto centralisation of these things.  When this single guy could decide on LTC to go from "no segwit possible" to "segwit next week" all by himself (or a small "board of governors meeting") you know how late it is, and why the wars over "the possible future centralization" are ridiculous.  That said, even before, there were only a few people deciding on the fate of bitcoin.  In the early days, it was Satoshi himself, and later, it were the Core guys.

[mindrust]

Wu needs to stop being malicious and accept segwit like he did with litecoin. Enable Segwit and make bitcoin great again.

Scariest thing about this whole situation.. One twat gets to decide the fate of Bitcoin !?.. That's not cool.

That's how it is since those ASIC mining companies popped up sadly. It wasn't like this when there was a competition though. Companies like KNC couldn't compete with the Chinese. If you think a bit you'll get that if you are into mining business it only makes sense to buy the most efficient unit available. So there can't be a competition, naturally. I mean who would buy a less powerful miner while there is a more powerful one?

When the most powerful miners being manufactured by a single company, that company practically owns bitcoin.

[dinofelis]

Wu needs to stop being malicious and accept segwit like he did with litecoin. Enable Segwit and make bitcoin great again.

Scariest thing about this whole situation.. One twat gets to decide the fate of Bitcoin !?.. That's not cool.

That's how it is since those ASIC mining companies popped up sadly. It wasn't like this when there was a competition though. Companies like KNC couldn't compete with the Chinese. If you think a bit you'll get that if you are into mining business it only makes sense to buy the most efficient unit available. So there can't be a competition, naturally. I mean who would buy a less powerful miner while there is a more powerful one?

When the most powerful miners being manufactured by a single company, that company practically owns bitcoin.

Indeed, and that is why PoW is doomed, always, to lead to such a centralization.  There are PoW coins out there still resisting ASICS, because their algorithms make it difficult.  But from a certain block reward onward, ASIC-like implementations will most probably become profitable.  So PoW coins can only remain decentralized if their market cap / block reward doesn't rise sufficiently for asics to become economically interesting with sufficient margin.

This problem was seen early-on.  This is in fact why LTC was invented, because scrypt was thought to be asic resistant.  It fell, rather quickly.  I think that DASH X11 and monero's cryptonight are still resisting as well as ethereum's ethash, the question is, how long ?

These coins have on top of that the nice property of having regular "hard forks".  On one hand, that means that the devs are the central authority where the coin is centralized.  On the other hand, they can change the PoW function "on the fly", which would entirely kill all asic investment (but not, say, GPU investment that can run the new algo).

[talkbitcoin]

i think the better question to ask would be who "doesn't" want these bitcoin scaling wars to end? debate is a good thing in my opinion, it comes from difference of opinions and it will lead to everyone trying to better their "solution" (hopefully).
but when debate is turned into war that is the problem.
and meanwhile certain groups of people are benefiting. the most obvious one that we can see comments in this topic too, are the altcoin pumpers who have used this opportunity to spread more FUD about bitcoin and pump their coins.

[wolffang]

https://www.nxter.org/bitcoin-wars-miner-problems-scaling-issues-ardor/

[The One]

The only way to end the war and move on is by getting one of the proposals activated. Even though, I doubt people will use Bitcoin Unlimited with all the scandals that appeared in the last a few weeks. As for the personal attacks, I believe that Jihan, Roger ver and others are getting them just because of they trying to achieve some personal interest which you mentioned.

In my humble opinion,
 ->Fuck Roger Ver'
 ->Fuck Jihan
 ->Fuck Bitcoin Unlimited
 Why are we even letting a few fuck-heads decide the future of bitcoin ? Give  control back to the  developers,let them do what's best.Also I'm tired of waiting forever for the transactions to confirm.

Ah... the same kind of people i see in the real world. For example. And this is not me. This below is an example of sheep in our society.

In my humble opinion,
 ->Fuck honest rich people
 ->Fuck honest entrepreneurs
 ->Fuck any who doesn't share my ideology.
Why are we even letting a few fuck-heads "decide" the future of our country? Give control back to the politicians, let them do what's best. Also I'm tired of waiting forever for my ideology to be imposed on everyone else.

[The One]

Wu needs to stop being malicious and accept segwit like he did with litecoin. Enable Segwit and make bitcoin great again.

Scariest thing about this whole situation.. One twat gets to decide the fate of Bitcoin !?.. That's not cool.

Concur.