Who wants these Bitcoin scaling wars to end?

[Emoclaw]

The solution is very easy. Wu needs to stop being malicious and accept segwit like he did with litecoin. Enable Segwit and make bitcoin great again. Any other solution including a BU HF ain't a solution.

He accepted SegWit with Litecoin because the Litecoin devs promised to support on-chain scaling as well in the future.
Something which Core doesn't seem to want to do which is another reason why BU exists in the first place.

[1714863321]

1714863321

[1714863321]

1714863321

[1714863321]

1714863321

[The One]

Wu needs to stop being malicious and accept segwit like he did with litecoin. Enable Segwit and make bitcoin great again.

Scariest thing about this whole situation.. One twat gets to decide the fate of Bitcoin !?.. That's not cool.

That's how it is since those ASIC mining companies popped up sadly. It wasn't like this when there was a competition though. Companies like KNC couldn't compete with the Chinese. If you think a bit you'll get that if you are into mining business it only makes sense to buy the most efficient unit available. So there can't be a competition, naturally. I mean who would buy a less powerful miner while there is a more powerful one?

When the most powerful miners being manufactured by a single company, that company practically owns bitcoin.

Irrational. No miners own Bitcoin. The miners could change the protocols but if the users don't agree then the miners will lose. The point of Bitcoin is that the miners can only benefit if they are honest.

ASIC came about because of the buyers. The buyers paid $2,000 ish for a unit. Waiting times on average 6 to 9 months. It never occurred to the buyers that the units were used by the manufacturers to mine BTC, before sending it off to the buyers. The vast profit means manufacturers were able to produced units for themselves for free. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I didn't buy a single mining unit. I just used my existing GPU and mined altcoins to convert to BTC. I didn't play the game of greed in trying out-race my competitors because it doesn't work when competitors can buy too. It is no good blaming the chinese.

[Slark]

~ How can we come together and find some common goal to resolve these issues?

We need to accept that both solutions are not good enough. Bitcoin Unlimited is too risky and unpredictable, SegWit might be only a short term temporary solution.
It is easy to say for me, but the ideal solution would be to think about something totally new -  compromise, mix the best fragments of both worlds.
At this point is is apparent that SegWit won't reach 95% support, nothing will - it is impossible to reach near perfect unanimous consensus.

[The One]

~ How can we come together and find some common goal to resolve these issues?

We need to accept that both solutions are not good enough. Bitcoin Unlimited is too risky and unpredictable, SegWit might be only a short term temporary solution.
It is easy to say for me, but the ideal solution would be to think about something totally news - the best of both worlds.
At this point is is apparent that SegWit won't reach 95% support, nothing will - it is impossible to reach near perfect unanimous consensus.

Exactly what many users on here are saying.

Would you be happy with the 1mb blocksize going up to 2mb then 3mb, 4mb?

[Kprawn]

Wu needs to stop being malicious and accept segwit like he did with litecoin. Enable Segwit and make bitcoin great again.

Scariest thing about this whole situation.. One twat gets to decide the fate of Bitcoin !?.. That's not cool.

Concur.

Scariest thing for me is that there is so much hatred and ignorance about this whole situation. The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is

for good men to do nothing. OP, has not kept quite about the "evil" that infiltrated this community. People are turned against each other, where

before this.... there were one common goal ---> " Bitcoin to the moon "  .... What a sad part of history this is.  

[Reid]

This thread should have been thought deeper before being done.
Will this really be the way to make peace or it will just make it worse?
Will this just be another thread to where they could throw their madness or they will now undrrstand each other.
As you said money and time had been wasted, so will they get down from their thrones just to give way and make peace.
Money is real evil.

[Slark]

~ How can we come together and find some common goal to resolve these issues?

We need to accept that both solutions are not good enough. Bitcoin Unlimited is too risky and unpredictable, SegWit might be only a short term temporary solution.
It is easy to say for me, but the ideal solution would be to think about something totally news - the best of both worlds.
At this point is is apparent that SegWit won't reach 95% support, nothing will - it is impossible to reach near perfect unanimous consensus.

Exactly what many users on here are saying.

Would you be happy with the 1mb blocksize going up to 2mb then 3mb, 4mb?

I don't think that simple Block size increase is enough of a solution for BTC scaling problem.
We have problem with spam transactions, this is part of the reason why BTC is 'slow' - 2 MB block can be spammed as well.

Maybe we don't need a hard update of protocol at all? Maybe we need to focus on off-chain infrastructure instead?

[Iranus]

Wu needs to stop being malicious and accept segwit like he did with litecoin. Enable Segwit and make bitcoin great again.

Scariest thing about this whole situation.. One twat gets to decide the fate of Bitcoin !?.. That's not cool.

Concur.

Scariest thing for me is that there is so much hatred and ignorance about this whole situation. The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is

for good men to do nothing. OP, has not kept quite about the "evil" that infiltrated this community. People are turned against each other, where

before this.... there were one common goal ---> " Bitcoin to the moon "  .... What a sad part of history this is.  

The problem is everyone thinking that they're above the idea of respect.  No one could really respect Jihan Wu or Roger Ver, but soundbites on a thread about unification (this thread) are really pointless, and we've got at least two already.  Whenever someone decides to throw in the towel, the fighters just keep beating each other up.

[ePesoInitiative]

The only way to end the war and move on is by getting one of the proposals activated. Even though, I doubt people will use Bitcoin Unlimited with all the scandals that appeared in the last a few weeks. As for the personal attacks, I believe that Jihan, Roger ver and others are getting them just because of they trying to achieve some personal interest which you mentioned.

In my humble opinion,
 ->Fuck Roger Ver'
 ->Fuck Jihan
 ->Fuck Bitcoin Unlimited
 Why are we even letting a few fuck-heads decide the future of bitcoin ? Give  control back to the  developers,let them do what's best.Also I'm tired of waiting forever for the transactions to confirm.

Ah... the same kind of people i see in the real world. For example. And this is not me. This below is an example of sheep in our society.

In my humble opinion,
 ->Fuck honest rich people
 ->Fuck honest entrepreneurs
 ->Fuck any who doesn't share my ideology.
Why are we even letting a few fuck-heads "decide" the future of our country? Give control back to the politicians, let them do what's best. Also I'm tired of waiting forever for my ideology to be imposed on everyone else.

And one of these days, an alt might surpass bitcoin's dominance.

[iamTom123]

We all want this raging scaling war to soon end by solving the problem head-on so the same thing will not come back years from now. However, this is not an easy task for now as there remains to be no clear consensus on the kind of solution that should be adopted. Anyway, I am sure that a time is coming when the Bitcoin community can finally laid this problem to rest. I have a high regards to this community as it has weathered all the storms in the fast with flying colors.

[lizardbtc]

Why they simply can't make blocks to come faster or raise block size???

As this irritates others it irritates me as well as when I want to send/recieve money.

"People control bitcoin" - yeah right.... there are devs with these miners THEY control it we are just a users.... we need fast solution. I don't think that it would be hard to raise block size just that which will result in a temporary solution for few years.

[The One]

Wu needs to stop being malicious and accept segwit like he did with litecoin. Enable Segwit and make bitcoin great again.

Scariest thing about this whole situation.. One twat gets to decide the fate of Bitcoin !?.. That's not cool.

Concur.

Scariest thing for me is that there is so much hatred and ignorance about this whole situation. The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is

for good men to do nothing. OP, has not kept quite about the "evil" that infiltrated this community. People are turned against each other, where

before this.... there were one common goal ---> " Bitcoin to the moon "  .... What a sad part of history this is.  

To me there are two fundamental goals.
1. Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System. Not Gold 2.0.
2. Decentralise.

Both will lead "Bitcoin to the moon."

[The One]

~ How can we come together and find some common goal to resolve these issues?

We need to accept that both solutions are not good enough. Bitcoin Unlimited is too risky and unpredictable, SegWit might be only a short term temporary solution.
It is easy to say for me, but the ideal solution would be to think about something totally news - the best of both worlds.
At this point is is apparent that SegWit won't reach 95% support, nothing will - it is impossible to reach near perfect unanimous consensus.

Exactly what many users on here are saying.

Would you be happy with the 1mb blocksize going up to 2mb then 3mb, 4mb?

I don't think that simple Block size increase is enough of a solution for BTC scaling problem.
We have problem with spam transactions, this is part of the reason why BTC is 'slow' - 2 MB block can be spammed as well.

Maybe we don't need a hard update of protocol at all? Maybe we need to focus on off-chain infrastructure instead?

As for spam - dealing with it should be a priority. It doesn't matter what solution to capacity or scaling anyone does, spam will exist until the ability to spam is blocked.

[Hydrogen]

Simple 2 step plan to ending scaling controversy.

Step #1: calculate how many (real time) transactions per second a larger blocksize will yield.

Step #2: weigh pros vs cons to decide if larger blocks provide a significant improvement.

I think bitcoin transactions will be extremely slow, even with a larger block size.

Bigger blocks are like obamacare: "promise everything, deliver nothing".

2MB blocks won't make a difference.

[Decoded]

Simple 2 step plan to ending scaling controversy.

Step #1: calculate how many (real time) transactions per second a larger blocksize will yield.

Step #2: weigh pros vs cons to decide if larger blocks provide a significant improvement.

I think bitcoin transactions will be extremely slow, even with a larger block size.

Bigger blocks are like obamacare: "promise everything, deliver nothing".

2MB blocks won't make a difference.

Supposedly, 2MB blocks will require each node to process much more data, and each incremental step above that requires an exponentially higher time to compute.

I'm pretty sure if modern technology is able to handle this, it would be a great change to the network. We could nearly double the transaction throughout, reducing the high fees that miners currently require.

[Hydrogen]

Supposedly, 2MB blocks will require each node to process much more data, and each incremental step above that requires an exponentially higher time to compute.

I'm pretty sure if modern technology is able to handle this, it would be a great change to the network. We could nearly double the transaction throughout, reducing the high fees that miners currently require.

With every possible block size, btc transaction speed will never be faster than its DDoS rate of spam.

The network will always be vulnerable to spam transactions.

Adjusting block size won't change that.

Blocks could be 20 GB in size & spammed transactions would still be much faster and difficult to get rid of.

[Weatherby]

And one of these days, an alt might surpass bitcoin's dominance.

I can accept everyone's opinion about everything regarding the war and the split between bitcoin enthusiast about what to be and what not to be but still i could not believe that an alt could surpass bitcoins dominance ,it is not possible as bitcoin is the true digital currency and the rest are just copying bitcoin.

[MingLee]

For months now, we have seen a verbal battle raging between Bitcoin Core and BU teams and supporters. We have seen personal attacks on people that were at one stage, crucial to the growth of Bitcoin. Some of these people made some big sacrifices to strengthen this experiment. < both in time & money >

~ How can we come together and find some common goal to resolve these issues?
~ Can we leave our personal vendettas behind and move forward?
~ Can we forget about greed and personal interest and put this experiment first again?
~ What would be the white flag moment for both parties to this fight?

Yes, Bitcoin was developed in such a way to make room for these kinds of battles, but things are getting out of hand and personal attacks are quite common these days. We are not civil anymore and most debates are getting very personal and heated.

A lot of power and money are at stake, but let's be civil about this and see if we can appreciate each others opinion without having to resort to "dirty" tactics to destroy the other person or team.

Be the first person to shake the other persons hand and you will see what will happen. ^smile^

Edit : Please DO NOT turn this into another scaling debate, but rather focus on ways to come together to solve these ugly battles.

I haven't been back for long but I'm already getting the same feeling, this is getting really repetitive and nothing is going anywhere.
Based on the arguments being provided by both sides, there will not be anywhere close to an end of the debate for a long while, and I would not be surprised at all to see this continue until the day that there is a solution implemented, and even after that it will likely still retain one side complaining about how it should have been.
Coming together to solve this issue apparently requires miners to want to be on the same level as users. Otherwise, as they make money, we get screwed by their fees.

[panju1]

And one of these days, an alt might surpass bitcoin's dominance.

I can accept everyone's opinion about everything regarding the war and the split between bitcoin enthusiast about what to be and what not to be but still i could not believe that an alt could surpass bitcoins dominance ,it is not possible as bitcoin is the true digital currency and the rest are just copying bitcoin.

If Bitcoin does split, one of the branches will still be an alt.
And which branch will ultimately enjoy the support of everybody, it is difficult to predict.

[jonald_fyookball]

For months now, we have seen a verbal battle raging between Bitcoin Core and BU teams and supporters. We have seen personal attacks on people that were at one stage, crucial to the growth of Bitcoin. Some of these people made some big sacrifices to strengthen this experiment. < both in time & money >

~ How can we come together and find some common goal to resolve these issues?
~ Can we leave our personal vendettas behind and move forward?
~ Can we forget about greed and personal interest and put this experiment first again?
~ What would be the white flag moment for both parties to this fight?

Yes, Bitcoin was developed in such a way to make room for these kinds of battles, but things are getting out of hand and personal attacks are quite common these days. We are not civil anymore and most debates are getting very personal and heated.

A lot of power and money are at stake, but let's be civil about this and see if we can appreciate each others opinion without having to resort to "dirty" tactics to destroy the other person or team.

Be the first person to shake the other persons hand and you will see what will happen. ^smile^

Edit : Please DO NOT turn this into another scaling debate, but rather focus on ways to come together to solve these ugly battles.

Good post.  Some folks here already couldn't resist to try to debate in this thread.

At least you have some kind of urgency that we need to scale... I feel that is an important part of the solution.  I honestly feel the core devs have no urgency and don't really give a shit if Bitcoin stagnates while alts grow.  To me that's unacceptable and should be unacceptable to every investor and hodler.