Is it worth investing in Bitcoin MIning with S9 considering the current FUD!

[techietrader]

Hi,
I have a pool of investors who knows nothing major about bitcoin mining.
I am preparing them to invest into bitcoin mining since last a couple of months and we are almost to reach a decision on it.

Considering the current developments that is going on into this space especially- ASICBOOST and now ANTBLEED, I have become a bit skeptical about it.
Do you guys suggest that I should ignore these issues and go ahead with investment?

The plan is-
1. Buying S9s
2. Hosting


Why S9?
Well currently there are a couple others ASIC miners available but because of their inefficiency, the ROI is not attractive. So for instance Avalon 741 seems a good option but power consumption is way too high.
Ebit E9 is other option but they are relatively new so donot want to risk. Also 882 Watts per 6.3 Th/s is little on higher side.

I m looking to start with something around 10-12 PH/s.

Guys! is it okay to buy S9s

Please advice!

[fanatic26]

I feel like if you want to invest 1-1.3 million dollars you would be doing more research on your own rather than asking a random internet forum about it.


1. 10ph = 1 million dollars in S9s (~900)

2. $70/month hosting average per unit ($63k/mo hosting)

3. Any hosting facility with the ability to host these will want a minimum of 3 months hosting in advance (~190k)

4. Good luck finding reliable hosting company that can handle 1.3+ megawatts of systems

5. S9s have high failure rates and require a fair amount of maintenance.

6. In an absolutely perfect world your ROI would be around 200 days. Chances are with S9s it will be more like 270 days of hashing. Lets say another 30-45 days for shipping/setup/etc before they even get turned on.


These are extremely rough estimates on everything but it should give you an idea of what to expect if you tried to pull something like this off.

[Nagadota]

If you're really willing to put that crazy an amount of money into Bitcoin mining, I would say that Antminers probably are a good choice, despite how evil BITMAIN is.

If you can get a place with really low electricity costs, you'll be able to buy Avalon miners instead, which have a fairly high hashrate.  In bulk, maybe you could get either unit cheaper.

[Amph]

the mining scene is satured for big miners like you, you will have an hard way to build all this

isn't better for you to just buy bitcoin and not dealing with all the hassles of mining and possible risk?

buying privately at cheaper rate or slowly on the market without increase the value and selling at the next bubble for buying back again

[techietrader]

I feel like if you want to invest 1-1.3 million dollars you would be doing more research on your own rather than asking a random internet forum about it.


1. 10ph = 1 million dollars in S9s (~900)

2. $70/month hosting average per unit ($63k/mo hosting)

3. Any hosting facility with the ability to host these will want a minimum of 3 months hosting in advance (~190k)

4. Good luck finding reliable hosting company that can handle 1.3+ megawatts of systems

5. S9s have high failure rates and require a fair amount of maintenance.

6. In an absolutely perfect world your ROI would be around 200 days. Chances are with S9s it will be more like 270 days of hashing. Lets say another 30-45 days for shipping/setup/etc before they even get turned on.


These are extremely rough estimates on everything but it should give you an idea of what to expect if you tried to pull something like this off.

Thanks very much for your inputs.
Yes just went through a few calculations, 270 Days is what I am expecting.
Infact I also went through historical data since halving in july, 2016 till date and result shows the same, provided I keep selling btc daily as and when it comes. Holding BTC and than selling after a few months and it is a different scenario altogether.

I think what we witnessed in last 10 months was also very rough
1. Bitfinex Hack
2. Segwit- BU dilemma
3. ETF rejection

If in coming future if such type of movements get repliecated than too we still good at 270-300 days ROI which I consider is decent enough.

Also the Difficulty is stabalizing as more and more money gets into mining.
From 1Eh/s to 2Eh/s in Bitcoin Network it has taken hardly 2 months, but moving from 4 Eh/s to 8 Eh/s, I guess it will take a little around a year.

Anyways thanks for writing out!!

If you're really willing to put that crazy an amount of money into Bitcoin mining, I would say that Antminers probably are a good choice, despite how evil BITMAIN is.

If you can get a place with really low electricity costs, you'll be able to buy Avalon miners instead, which have a fairly high hashrate.  In bulk, maybe you could get either unit cheaper.

When you say Low electricty, what figure do you mean?
Something like below 0.05$ per unit?
Well not unfortunately.
But I wish if Avalon can make miners more efficient

Thanks for your inputs. It really helps!!

[techietrader]

isn't better for you to just buy bitcoin and not dealing with all the hassles of mining and possible risk?

buying privately at cheaper rate or slowly on the market without increase the value and selling at the next bubble for buying back again

Thats a very good idea.

But explaining something like this to an investor is a real pain.

You see it is just a speculation and not an actual business

A product/Business would be something like-
1. Huge Investment
&
2 Decent Returns


A speculative Product
1. High Risk High Return


Bitcoin Mining is like a traditional manufacturing unit. The only difference is you manufacture a Digital Product and the best part is -
1. Finished Product is delivered daily
2. For income to start generating one need not wait for the product to be first marketed and than sold so high turnover ratio!


But I m still with your idea of simply buying and holding Bitcoins!!

[Qartada]

I would say Bitcoin mining is very risky as well as holding.  Anything related to Bitcoin is risky, but mining is very hard to predict.  You don't know what the difficulty is going to be in the future, or indeed what the price is going to be relative to the difficulty which is what matters.  You could end up with less ROI than you thought.

It is still relatively safe though.  I admire that you're looking into this.  You need a place with low electricity costs though, otherwise your costs could start outweighing the revenues after a while.

[carlfebz2]

10 ph? It would really need lots of S9 miners for sure in able to achieve that number and as I seen above those are good explanations regarding on calculations and speaking with difficulty and power cost I know you would already to know that since its the main concern when we do try to make mining farms.Roi would be possible and 200+ days I think would be just not too long.News do really happen unexpectedly so therefore you should really expect on those possible risk on the way.

[Amph]

isn't better for you to just buy bitcoin and not dealing with all the hassles of mining and possible risk?

buying privately at cheaper rate or slowly on the market without increase the value and selling at the next bubble for buying back again

Thats a very good idea.

But explaining something like this to an investor is a real pain.

You see it is just a speculation and not an actual business

A product/Business would be something like-
1. Huge Investment
&
2 Decent Returns


A speculative Product
1. High Risk High Return


Bitcoin Mining is like a traditional manufacturing unit. The only difference is you manufacture a Digital Product and the best part is -
1. Finished Product is delivered daily
2. For income to start generating one need not wait for the product to be first marketed and than sold so high turnover ratio!


But I m still with your idea of simply buying and holding Bitcoins!!

the only good think of buying hardware instead of bitcoin, is that you are making more bitcoin, with simple holding your are not, and probably you are also producing bitcoin at cheaper rate than buying

but this is true only after you hit roi which is unbelievable hard with bitcoin asic, if i buy bitcoin i would spend $1400 for one, but with an antminer s9 i would spend the cost of electricity to generate one which is

150 days of 34 kwh each at 0.05 cent(well this depend on your electricity) is equal to $255 only, it's like you are buying bitcoin at 1/5 of the original value

[techietrader]

isn't better for you to just buy bitcoin and not dealing with all the hassles of mining and possible risk?

buying privately at cheaper rate or slowly on the market without increase the value and selling at the next bubble for buying back again

Thats a very good idea.

But explaining something like this to an investor is a real pain.

You see it is just a speculation and not an actual business

A product/Business would be something like-
1. Huge Investment
&
2 Decent Returns


A speculative Product
1. High Risk High Return


Bitcoin Mining is like a traditional manufacturing unit. The only difference is you manufacture a Digital Product and the best part is -
1. Finished Product is delivered daily
2. For income to start generating one need not wait for the product to be first marketed and than sold so high turnover ratio!


But I m still with your idea of simply buying and holding Bitcoins!!

the only good think of buying hardware instead of bitcoin, is that you are making more bitcoin, with simple holding your are not, and probably you are also producing bitcoin at cheaper rate than buying

but this is true only after you hit roi which is unbelievable hard with bitcoin asic, if i buy bitcoin i would spend $1400 for one, but with an antminer s9 i would spend the cost of electricity to generate one which is

150 days of 34 kwh each at 0.05 cent(well this depend on your electricity) is equal to $255 only, it's like you are buying bitcoin at 1/5 of the original value

Thanks for the Analysis.
0.05 cents. Thats really cheap. I donot have that cheap supply.
Any facility you are aware of that provides electricity that cheap and also host miners?

[yxt]

3. Any hosting facility with the ability to host these will want a minimum of 3 months hosting in advance (~190k)

4. Good luck finding reliable hosting company that can handle 1.3+ megawatts of systems

5. S9s have high failure rates and require a fair amount of maintenance.

3. No
4. I can :-)
5.
I agree with that, S9 failure rate is so high I refuse to host them, too much work, angry customers....
A7 is running very stable, I really tried to destroy one, no chance... put it out in the snow --> working, feed it with ~35°C+ intake temp --> working
And Canaan has a customer service that it worth the name

...
0.05 cents. Thats really cheap. I donot have that cheap supply.
Any facility you are aware of that provides electricity that cheap and also host miners?

PM me

[grermezter]

Why dont you get the new Antminer T9 rather if the rise in the price of bitcoins and i dont know how much you get charged for electricity am sure you will start gaining profits within a year.