Do NOT declare that you have ever owned bitcoins

[AlgoSwan]

There is a very simple solution to all of these: Remove all fiat money from BTC exchanges.

What do u expect to exchange bitcoins for in this case?

Anything except fiat money.

[Jobe7]

Urm,

If they ever made it illegal, send your bitcoins through a shared wallet to another wallet you own (or a trusted exchange), declare that you gave them away when they were made illegal (if ever asked) and continue to spend your bitcoins ....

but now, any country that decides to tax bitcoins gets a massive one up on the country that made it illegal .. hence why this will never happen, any country declaring it illegal to trade in bitcoin is severely shooting itself in own foot.

[ewitte]

Fiat's days are numbered along with those that created the world we live in today

[Matthew N. Wright]

No one can ever accurately declare they've ever owned bitcoins, but bitcoins cannot be owned. I will declare that I have owned numerous encryption keys, though I cannot remember which or what relevance they had.

[zebedee]

Sort of along the same lines, technically calculating pi is illegal. Since it contains all finite bitstrings

Um, what makes you say that?  I'm pretty sure it's untrue.

[1PFYcabWEwZFm2Ez5LGTx3ftz]

In my opinion, it would be impossible to prove that you own bitcoins, unless you officially admitted it.

Consider the example of computer hacking - it is impossible to prove that you personally was doing the hacking, even if your IP gets logged during the hack. I have read about many cases where hackers were tracked by their IP and convicted, but in ALL those cases the hacker has admitted guilt. I have never ever read about a case, where someone would be convicted of hacking, only because of their IP, while they denied doing the hacking. If you have heard of any such cases, please correct me.

The same applies to bitcoin - it would be impossible to prove, if bitcoins were used by you, or just by someone pretending to be you. Even if a bitcoin address was posted on your facebook page, who could prove, if it was really posted by you, or by someone who hacked your facebook?

[myrkul]

Sort of along the same lines, technically calculating pi is illegal. Since it contains all finite bitstrings

Um, what makes you say that?  I'm pretty sure it's untrue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi

π is an irrational number, which means that it cannot be expressed exactly as a ratio of two integers (such as 22/7 or other fractions that are commonly used to approximate π); consequently, its decimal representation never ends and never settles into a permanent repeating pattern.

Calculate far enough, you'll get any data you want. (Yes, that may be further than practical to calculate, but it's there. Eventually.)

[odolvlobo]

In my opinion, it would be impossible to prove that you own bitcoins, unless you officially admitted it.

Consider the example of computer hacking - it is impossible to prove that you personally was doing the hacking, even if your IP gets logged during the hack. I have read about many cases where hackers were tracked by their IP and convicted, but in ALL those cases the hacker has admitted guilt. I have never ever read about a case, where someone would be convicted of hacking, only because of their IP, while they denied doing the hacking. If you have heard of any such cases, please correct me.

The same applies to bitcoin - it would be impossible to prove, if bitcoins were used by you, or just by someone pretending to be you. Even if a bitcoin address was posted on your facebook page, who could prove, if it was really posted by you, or by someone who hacked your facebook?

What about the wallet on your computer? Don't you think it's existence is sufficient proof that you own the bitcoins at the addresses it contains?

[zebedee]

Sort of along the same lines, technically calculating pi is illegal. Since it contains all finite bitstrings

Um, what makes you say that?  I'm pretty sure it's untrue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi

π is an irrational number, which means that it cannot be expressed exactly as a ratio of two integers (such as 22/7 or other fractions that are commonly used to approximate π); consequently, its decimal representation never ends and never settles into a permanent repeating pattern.

Calculate far enough, you'll get any data you want. (Yes, that may be further than practical to calculate, but it's there. Eventually.)

Nope, not the same thing at all. A very common misconception though.

Consider writing pi in binary. That never repeats, and can be considered a decimal number too. But you'll never ever see the single digit "2" never mind longer sequences.

[myrkul]

Sort of along the same lines, technically calculating pi is illegal. Since it contains all finite bitstrings

Um, what makes you say that?  I'm pretty sure it's untrue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi

π is an irrational number, which means that it cannot be expressed exactly as a ratio of two integers (such as 22/7 or other fractions that are commonly used to approximate π); consequently, its decimal representation never ends and never settles into a permanent repeating pattern.

Calculate far enough, you'll get any data you want. (Yes, that may be further than practical to calculate, but it's there. Eventually.)

Nope, not the same thing at all. A very common misconception though.

Consider writing pi in binary. That never repeats, and can be considered a decimal number too. But you'll never ever see the single digit "2" never mind longer sequences.

True. But you'll see numerous instances of "10" and any one of them could be interpreted as the decimal digit "2."

Edit: And you'll also find numerous instances of "00000010" which is the standard binary representation of the digit "2." Any infinite, non-repeating bitstring contains all finite bitstrings. Somewhere.

[aigeezer]

Sort of along the same lines, technically calculating pi is illegal. Since it contains all finite bitstrings

Um, what makes you say that?  I'm pretty sure it's untrue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi

π is an irrational number, which means that it cannot be expressed exactly as a ratio of two integers (such as 22/7 or other fractions that are commonly used to approximate π); consequently, its decimal representation never ends and never settles into a permanent repeating pattern.

Calculate far enough, you'll get any data you want. (Yes, that may be further than practical to calculate, but it's there. Eventually.)

Nope, not the same thing at all. A very common misconception though.

Consider writing pi in binary. That never repeats, and can be considered a decimal number too. But you'll never ever see the single digit "2" never mind longer sequences.

The "considered a decimal number too" is an artifact. The fact that a binary number looks like a decimal number does not make it a decimal number for purposes of computation. There are no eleven-toed sloths.

[jago25_98]

If you're wise you could do all your trades over the counter on localbitcoins or whatever. Anyone who's used an exchange likely has a papertrail. That trail is strongest if you've sent them ID.

[zebedee]

Sort of along the same lines, technically calculating pi is illegal. Since it contains all finite bitstrings

Um, what makes you say that?  I'm pretty sure it's untrue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi

π is an irrational number, which means that it cannot be expressed exactly as a ratio of two integers (such as 22/7 or other fractions that are commonly used to approximate π); consequently, its decimal representation never ends and never settles into a permanent repeating pattern.

Calculate far enough, you'll get any data you want. (Yes, that may be further than practical to calculate, but it's there. Eventually.)

Nope, not the same thing at all. A very common misconception though.

Consider writing pi in binary. That never repeats, and can be considered a decimal number too. But you'll never ever see the single digit "2" never mind longer sequences.

True. But you'll see numerous instances of "10" and any one of them could be interpreted as the decimal digit "2."

Edit: And you'll also find numerous instances of "00000010" which is the standard binary representation of the digit "2." Any infinite, non-repeating bitstring contains all finite bitstrings. Somewhere.

I've just shown you this fallacy is not true, yet you repeat it.  Let me try again, let's only talk binary this time.

Consider the number that is a zero, a one, 2 zeroes, a one, 3 zeroes, a 1, etc.

010010001...

Clearly this is non repeating and infinite.  Show me where 11 appears in this bitstring?

[myrkul]

Consider the number that is a zero, a one, 2 zeroes, a one, 3 zeroes, a 1, etc.

010010001...

Clearly this is non repeating and infinite.  Show me where 11 appears in this bitstring?

Very well, you have shown me that you can construct an infinite bitstring which excludes a particular finite bitstring. But we're not talking about your constructed pattern. We're talking about Pi. Pi does not follow that pattern. So let me amend my statement: Any infinite, non-repeating random or pseudo-random bitstring contains all finite bitstrings. Somewhere. I might even say that any  infinite, non-repeating bitstring not specifically constructed to exclude them contains all finite bitstrings.

Take an infinite supply of alpha-bits, and set them down one after the other in no particular order. Do this long enough, and you will reproduce Shakespeare's collected works.

Count incrementally in Hexadecimal, and you will eventually get every private key in existence.

00010100 00010001

I guarantee that I have just reproduced, via copy and paste from here, someone's bank card PIN. Maybe even yours. (I checked, it's not mine)

[zebedee]

Very well, you have shown me that you can construct an infinite bitstring which excludes a particular finite bitstring. But we're not talking about your constructed pattern. We're talking about Pi. Pi does not follow that pattern. So let me amend my statement: Any infinite, non-repeating random or pseudo-random bitstring contains all finite bitstrings. Somewhere. I might even say that any  infinite, non-repeating bitstring not specifically constructed to exclude them contains all finite bitstrings.

Take an infinite supply of alpha-bits, and set them down one after the other in no particular order. Do this long enough, and you will reproduce Shakespeare's collected works.

Count incrementally in Hexadecimal, and you will eventually get every private key in existence.

00010100 00010001

I guarantee that I have just reproduced, via copy and paste from here, someone's bank card PIN. Maybe even yours. (I checked, it's not mine)

Even if I granted you this false statement, you have to demonstrate that pi is random to establish your original claim.  Unfortunately pi is far from random.

However I can create a random bistring of zeroes and ones that doesn't have 11 anywhere in it.

Stick to something you understand and can prove.

[myrkul]

However I can create a random bistring of zeroes and ones that doesn't have 11 anywhere in it.

You can. But the longer that bitstring gets, the less likely a 1 always being followed by a 0 gets. Perhaps you just don't get how big "infinite" really is?

Oh, and you'll note that I did say "random or pseudo-random."

[film2240]

There are a lot of threads about taxation and FinCEN regulation on this forum. Now you can pay taxes, register yourself as Money Service Business (MSB) and sleep well, but... The state won't stop and will continue to strangle Bitcoin. One day it will make Bitcoin illegal.

Now the state collects data who uses Bitcoin, so in the future (when Bitcoin becomes illegal) they'll pay very close attention to those who declared that they "touched" bitcoins. It's a well known trick:
1. Pretend you are just going to regulate something.
2. Collect data about users.
3. Make it illegal.
4. Spy the users.
5. Prosecute those who violate the law.

Keep this in mind...

Wouldn't spying on users come 3rd? Seeing how making it illegal would stop their constant source of usage patterns,etc.Banning it comes 4th I think as, they'll have enough info to chase after all the users after snooping on them all first (after collecting that info before hand).

[Come-from-Beyond]

There are a lot of threads about taxation and FinCEN regulation on this forum. Now you can pay taxes, register yourself as Money Service Business (MSB) and sleep well, but... The state won't stop and will continue to strangle Bitcoin. One day it will make Bitcoin illegal.

Now the state collects data who uses Bitcoin, so in the future (when Bitcoin becomes illegal) they'll pay very close attention to those who declared that they "touched" bitcoins. It's a well known trick:
1. Pretend you are just going to regulate something.
2. Collect data about users.
3. Make it illegal.
4. Spy the users.
5. Prosecute those who violate the law.

Keep this in mind...

Wouldn't spying on users come 3rd? Seeing how making it illegal would stop their constant source of usage patterns,etc.Banning it comes 4th I think as, they'll have enough info to chase after all the users after snooping on them all first (after collecting that info before hand).

3rd take as long as to put signature under the law.

[MonadTran]

People should pay taxes on bitcoins. It's probably the only thing that can prevent a complete shutdown.

No. Thinking that you can stop the Mafia by giving them even more money is absurd. Any action that would speed up the inevitable collapse of the current system is morally justified, and is good for Bitcoin. Dump more dollars. Get more bitcoins.

[1PFYcabWEwZFm2Ez5LGTx3ftz]

What about the wallet on your computer? Don't you think it's existence is sufficient proof that you own the bitcoins at the addresses it contains?

That would be sufficient proof, but in order to get your computer, they would need a warrant, and in order to get a warrant, they would need to have some proof already.

Also, you could (and should) use a program like TrueCrypt to encrypt your entire hard drive. That way, it will be impossible to know if you had any wallets on your PC.