So much talk and 0 action, lets actually make a sovereign territory

[Anon136]

It seems like every other day someone makes a post about how we ought to make our own nation. About how its such a great idea. +1 +1 +1 they say. Well saying +1 isn't going to make it fucking happen. So enough talking about how cool it would be, lets instead talk logistics.

It seems to me that step one is find a location. it seems to me that it should be an island and it should be close to the US since thats where most of us live but not TOO close to the US for obvious reasons. It needs to have fresh water. It needs to be accessible. We need to be able to grow atleast a little bit of food and it needs to have atleast a little bit of wild game. So step 1 is compile a list of all available candidate islands and then we can move onto weighing the costs and benefits of each option.

(please dont stop reading just because of the next few words libertarian anarchists) In order to be recognized by the international community we will need a government. Now i know many of you are recoiling in horror but not only would there be a general lack of belief in the legitimacy of the government, there would actually be a general understanding that the government was illegitimate by design. Since all governments rely on the perception of legitimacy among its constituency there would be no fear of this government ever taking over, we would all know that it was ceremonial and nothing more. So if we need a government i say lets keep it as simple as possible, if we elect 300 members of congress they could potentially begin to conspire, i say we just elect a new dictator every year and according to the law no dictator can ever hold his position for more than 1 term. Also if more than 50% of the population signs a petition to have him removed from office than he can be removed from office at any time. Basically we will need this person to organize the migration, charter the boats and sign treaties with other nations. My personal recommendation and vote goes to doug casey as he is an anarchist and has some experience in these matters and i think he would get a serious kick out of writing "the anarchist king" on his tomb stone  

Next we need to figure out how much its going to cost or at-least a rough estimate so we can set a funding goal

then finally we need to raise the funds. This could be accomplished through crowed funding (like kick-starter). Those who pledged to the campaign would be rewarded with a deed to a piece of property on the island that corresponded to their contribution (if they donated 1% of they funds they get 1% of the land) This way pledging would not only be a charitable act, it could be considered an investment, after-all a piece of property in galt's gulch could end up being the most valuable piece of realestate on the planet very quickly. Considering that land is a heterogeneous good we should probably use some sort of raffle system to make the distribution provably fair.

the tough thing is raising the amount of money we are talking about here would require some reliable escrow providers. Inorder to make this thing work we would need a big fish to do the escrow for us. By big i mean stefan molineaux or tom woods ect.

anyway im going to start on step one now and search for candidate islands.

[1714790418]

1714790418

[DeathAndTaxes]

Are you planning on building an artificial island?
There is no land* which isn't the land/territory/protectorate of an existing country.

The major exception being Antarctica however the vast majority of existing nations have signed a UN treaty to prevent that land from being claimed by any existing or new nation.   There are a few unstable volcanic formations which may extend above the sea level but nothing capable of supporting even the smallest of communities (think rock a few acres large barely sticking out of the water).

You can buy a private island but that would put you under an existing sovereign:
http://www.privateislandsonline.com/

One example of a propsal to form a "free citystate" which however would still be under US federal sovreignty.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/01/28/would-you-pay-300000-to-become-a-citizen-of-this-proposed-free-market-utopia-in-detroit/
http://www.commonwealthofbelleisle.com/

[malevolent]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_nullius#Current_terrae_nullius

[Phinnaeus Gage]

It seems like every other day someone makes a post about how we ought to make our own nation. About how its such a great idea. +1 +1 +1 they say. Well saying +1 isn't going to make it fucking happen. So enough talking about how cool it would be, lets instead talk about what steps we need to take inorder to get there.

It seems to me that step one is find a location. it seems to me that it should be an island and it should be close to the US since thats where most of us live but not TOO close to the US for obvious reasons. It needs to have fresh water. It needs to be accessible. We need to be able to grow atleast a little bit of food and it needs to have atleast a little bit of wild game. So step 1 is compile a list of all available candidate islands and then we can move onto weighing the costs and benefits of each option.

(please dont stop reading just because of the next few words libertarian anarchists) In order to be recognized by the international community we will need a government. Now i know many of you are recoiling in horror but not only would there be a general lack of belief in the legitimacy of the government, there would actually be a general understanding that the government was illegitimate by design. Since all governments rely on the perception of legitimacy among its constituency there would be no fear of this government ever taking over, we would all know that it was ceremonial and nothing more. So if we need a government i say lets keep it as simple as possible, if we elect 300 members of congress they could potentially begin to conspire, i say we just elect a new dictator every year and according to the law no dictator can ever hold his position for more than 1 term. Also if more than 50% of the population signs a petition to have him removed from office than he can be removed from office at any time. Basically we will need this person to organize the migration, charter the boats and sign treaties with other nations. My personal recommendation and vote goes to doug casey as he is an anarchist and has some experience in these matters and i think he would get a serious kick out of writing "the anarchist king" on his tomb stone 

Next we need to figure out how much its going to cost or at-least a rough estimate so we can set a funding goal

then finally we need to raise the funds. This could be accomplished through crowed funding (like kick-starter). Those who pledged to the campaign would be rewarded with a deed to a piece of property on the island that corresponded to their contribution (if they donated 1% of they funds they get 1% of the land) This way pledging would not only be a charitable act, it could be considered an investment, after-all a piece of property in galt's gulch could end up being the most valuable piece of realestate on the planet very quickly. Considering that land is a heterogeneous good we should probably use some sort of raffle system to make the distribution provably fair.

the tough thing is raising the amount of money we are talking about here would require some reliable escrow providers. Inorder to make this thing work we would need a big fish to do the escrow for us. By big i mean stefan molineaux or tom woods ect.

anyway im going to start on step one now and search for candidate islands.

How about an island in Canada currently controlled by one of them sovereign Indians?

[Anon136]

Are you planning on building an artificial island?
There is no land* which isn't the land/territory/protectorate of an existing country.

The sole exception being Antarctica however the vast majority of existing nations have signed a UN treaty to prevent that land from being claimed by any existing or new nation.

well you know if we had to pay a part of the funding inorder to purchase the island from a soveriegn than it could be arranged. If a big name like stef or tom woods got behind this we could probably raise enough.

[Mike Christ]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_nullius#Current_terrae_nullius

Well, I suppose we could colonize mars.

[myrkul]

anyway im going to start on step one now and search for candidate islands.

I'm in. I say we elect a king, and then draft a constitution completely stripping him of powers. He's just there as a figurehead.

[Come-from-Beyond]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_nullius#Current_terrae_nullius

Well, I suppose we could colonize mars.

Yes. Let's claim Mars as our territory.

[Anon136]

It seems like every other day someone makes a post about how we ought to make our own nation. About how its such a great idea. +1 +1 +1 they say. Well saying +1 isn't going to make it fucking happen. So enough talking about how cool it would be, lets instead talk about what steps we need to take inorder to get there.

It seems to me that step one is find a location. it seems to me that it should be an island and it should be close to the US since thats where most of us live but not TOO close to the US for obvious reasons. It needs to have fresh water. It needs to be accessible. We need to be able to grow atleast a little bit of food and it needs to have atleast a little bit of wild game. So step 1 is compile a list of all available candidate islands and then we can move onto weighing the costs and benefits of each option.

(please dont stop reading just because of the next few words libertarian anarchists) In order to be recognized by the international community we will need a government. Now i know many of you are recoiling in horror but not only would there be a general lack of belief in the legitimacy of the government, there would actually be a general understanding that the government was illegitimate by design. Since all governments rely on the perception of legitimacy among its constituency there would be no fear of this government ever taking over, we would all know that it was ceremonial and nothing more. So if we need a government i say lets keep it as simple as possible, if we elect 300 members of congress they could potentially begin to conspire, i say we just elect a new dictator every year and according to the law no dictator can ever hold his position for more than 1 term. Also if more than 50% of the population signs a petition to have him removed from office than he can be removed from office at any time. Basically we will need this person to organize the migration, charter the boats and sign treaties with other nations. My personal recommendation and vote goes to doug casey as he is an anarchist and has some experience in these matters and i think he would get a serious kick out of writing "the anarchist king" on his tomb stone 

Next we need to figure out how much its going to cost or at-least a rough estimate so we can set a funding goal

then finally we need to raise the funds. This could be accomplished through crowed funding (like kick-starter). Those who pledged to the campaign would be rewarded with a deed to a piece of property on the island that corresponded to their contribution (if they donated 1% of they funds they get 1% of the land) This way pledging would not only be a charitable act, it could be considered an investment, after-all a piece of property in galt's gulch could end up being the most valuable piece of realestate on the planet very quickly. Considering that land is a heterogeneous good we should probably use some sort of raffle system to make the distribution provably fair.

the tough thing is raising the amount of money we are talking about here would require some reliable escrow providers. Inorder to make this thing work we would need a big fish to do the escrow for us. By big i mean stefan molineaux or tom woods ect.

anyway im going to start on step one now and search for candidate islands.

How about an island in Canada currently controlled by one of them sovereign Indians?

are there any that arnt freezing cold year around?

[Anon136]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_nullius#Current_terrae_nullius

Well, I suppose we could colonize mars.

Yes. Let's claim Mars as our territory.

We would have to homestead it. You don't by any chance have a vessel that can take us there do you mr. beyond?

[DeathAndTaxes]

Are you planning on building an artificial island?
There is no land* which isn't the land/territory/protectorate of an existing country.

The sole exception being Antarctica however the vast majority of existing nations have signed a UN treaty to prevent that land from being claimed by any existing or new nation.

well you know if we had to pay a part of the funding inorder to purchase the island from a sovereign than it could be arranged. If a big name like stef or tom woods got behind this we could probably raise enough.

Land is the one thing for which global demand (on any extended timespan) is always increasing  and nobody is increasing the supply.  A country will gladly give you deed to land UNDER THEIR SOVEREIGN RULE however countries generally do not willingly party with territory.  Nations are a sort of "good ole boys club" with no vacancies available (without the use of force)*.  It is the obvious "oversight" entities like the UN deal with interactions between existing nations however they almost intentionally pretend that all these nations have always existed and will always exist and no other nation has ever or will ever exist.  For all the pomp and diplomacy nations are formed by violence. 

This covers the issue pretty well
http://www.worldislandinfo.com/Starting%20island%20country.html

The only likely scenario for creating a new nation would be geoforming a new island in international water (which is very deep).  We are taking an engineering project to rival the best the human race has accomplished and something on the scale of tens of billions of dollars, millions of man hours, and years (if not decades) in the making.

A more plausible shorter scale scenario would be a very large ship (i.e. floating nation) or other manmade structure (deep water oil platform) or possibly a seastading community using a platform as a "home base" of sorts.


* In the last sixty years the only "new" countries were either nations where the existing government fell and was replaced by a government under the name of a new nation or nations which split into multiple new nations (i.e. Yugoslavia) after years of internal conflict.

[manfred]

That why i think the "Principality of Hutt River" is a good start. better maybe the Pitcain Islands. The islands are inhabited by the descendants of the Bounty mutineers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitcairn_Islands

[conspirosphere.tk]

Acquiring and defending land and sovereignty on it would be probably unprofitable I guess, but in case anyone would like to explore the matter, here is a place to start:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323820304578410573747048086.html

But it would be infinitely cheaper and better to imitate the banksters and just buy the legitimate government of any country you fancy to do (and let it do) whatever you like while remaining out of the spotlight.

[Anon136]

Are you planning on building an artificial island?
There is no land* which isn't the land/territory/protectorate of an existing country.

The sole exception being Antarctica however the vast majority of existing nations have signed a UN treaty to prevent that land from being claimed by any existing or new nation.

well you know if we had to pay a part of the funding inorder to purchase the island from a sovereign than it could be arranged. If a big name like stef or tom woods got behind this we could probably raise enough.

Land is the one thing for which global demand (on any extended timespan) is always increasing  and nobody is increasing the supply.  A country will gladly give you deed to land UNDER THEIR SOVEREIGN RULE however countries generally do not willingly party with territory.  Nations are a sort of "good ole boys club" with no vacancies available (without the use of force)*.


* In the last sixty years the only "new" countries were either nations where the existing government fell and was replaced by a government under the name of a new nation or nations which split into multiple new nations (i.e. Yugoslavia) after years of internal conflict.

what if we were to pay an existing soveriegn 10 times what about 100 times, 1000 times the asking price and only take a VERY tiny island? Theoretically an existing internationally recognized sovereign could agree to relinquish its claim of sovereignty over a small piece of land. Of course we would quickly find a sponsor nation that we could fly as a flag of convenience for a price. All this would be pricy. But i really think so many people want it who knows how much a well backed crowed-funding campaign could raise.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Acquiring and defending land and sovereignty on it would be probably be unprofitable I guess, but in case anyone would like to explore the matter, here is a place to start:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323820304578410573747048086.html

But it would be infinitely cheaper and better to imitate the banksters and just buy the legitimate government of any country you fancy to do (and let it do) whatever you like while remaining out of the lights.

This.  There are some very small (very poor) nations where say ten billion dollars could likely buy you enough power (and immigrants = votes) to "reform" the local government into whatever you wanted.

For example Tuval has a population of ~10,000 persons, a GDP of $36 million and yet is recognized as a sovereign nation by just about every existing nation and the UN.

[Anon136]

Acquiring and defending land and sovereignty on it would be probably be unprofitable I guess, but in case anyone would like to explore the matter, here is a place to start:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323820304578410573747048086.html

But it would be infinitely cheaper and better to imitate the banksters and just buy the legitimate government of any country you fancy to do (and let it do) whatever you like while remaining out of the lights.

This.  There are some very small (very poor) nations where say ten billion dollars could likely buy you enough power (and immigrants = votes) to "reform" the local government into whatever you wanted.

For example Tuval has a population of ~10,000 persons, a GDP of $36 million and yet is recognized as a sovereign nation by just about every existing nation and the UN.

HELL YES now you are talking. Lets do this, lets crowed fund the take over of that government by a bunch of hard core libertarians! If we elected the right people, could we actually elect people that would dismantle the government? Is there one among us who is actually strong enough to carry saurons dark ring to mount doom and actually do it, actually cast it into the fires?

[manfred]

Tuvalu, well i been there.
The country basically survives from an Australian, New zealand trust fund.
Would they give up membership of world bank and asian develpment bank and risk relations form the hand who feeds them for some for ASICS they would have to buy?? Who is going to explain to them what a bitcoins is, most struggle to read a newspaper.
Bunkers, the majority of the useful land is 1 meter above high tide make in the middle of the ocean.  Who is paying for upgrading internet infrastructure in the middle of the ocean??

Tuvalu is a member of the World Bank and the Asian Development Bank.
Tuvalu maintains close relations with Fiji, New Zealand, Australia, Japan, South Korea, the United Kingdom and the European Union. It has diplomatic relations with the Republic of China (Taiwan); the ROC maintains the only resident embassy in Tuvalu and has a large assistance programme in the islands.
Tuvalu is party to a treaty of friendship with the United States,

The highest elevation is 4.6 metres (15 ft) above sea level on Niulakita, which gives Tuvalu the second-lowest maximum elevation of any country (after the Maldives). However, the highest elevations are typically in narrow storm dunes on the ocean side of the islands which are prone to overtopping in tropical cyclones, as occurred with Cyclone Bebe, which was a very early-season storm that passed through the Tuvaluan atolls in October 1972.
Because of the low elevation, the islands that make up this nation are threatened by current and future sea level rise.
Additionally, Tuvalu is annually affected by king tide events which peak towards the end of the austral summer, and raise the sea level higher than a normal high tide. As a result of historical sea level rise, the king tide events lead to flooding of low lying areas, which is compounded when sea levels are further raised by La Niña effects or local storms and waves. In the future, sea level rise may threaten to submerge the nation entirely as it is estimated that a sea level rise of 20–40 centimetres (8–16 inches) in the next 100 years could make Tuvalu uninhabitable.

"Principality of Hutt River" and "Freetown Christiania" out of question only remains the Pitcain Islands.

 The islands are inhabited by the descendants of the Bounty mutineers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitcairn_Islands

[Mike Christ]

Acquiring and defending land and sovereignty on it would be probably be unprofitable I guess, but in case anyone would like to explore the matter, here is a place to start:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323820304578410573747048086.html

But it would be infinitely cheaper and better to imitate the banksters and just buy the legitimate government of any country you fancy to do (and let it do) whatever you like while remaining out of the lights.

This.  There are some very small (very poor) nations where say ten billion dollars could likely buy you enough power (and immigrants = votes) to "reform" the local government into whatever you wanted.

For example Tuval has a population of ~10,000 persons, a GDP of $36 million and yet is recognized as a sovereign nation by just about every existing nation and the UN.

HELL YES now you are talking. Lets do this, lets crowed fund the take over of that government by a bunch of hard core libertarians! If we elected the right people, could we actually elect people that would dismantle the government? Is there one among us who is actually strong enough to carry saurons dark ring to mount doom and actually do it, actually cast it into the fires?

Hrmm fight the bankers with their own game.  That's something I've never heard before.

[Anon136]

Tuvalu, well i been there.
The country basically survives from an Australian, New zealand trust fund.
Would they give up membership of world bank and asian develpment bank and risk relations form the hand who feeds them for some for ASICS they would have to buy?? Who is going to explain to them what a bitcoins is, most struggle to read a newspaper.
Bunkers, the majority of the useful land is 1 meter above high tide make in the middle of the ocean.  Who is paying for upgrading internet infrastructure in the middle of the ocean??

Tuvalu is a member of the World Bank and the Asian Development Bank.
Tuvalu maintains close relations with Fiji, New Zealand, Australia, Japan, South Korea, the United Kingdom and the European Union. It has diplomatic relations with the Republic of China (Taiwan); the ROC maintains the only resident embassy in Tuvalu and has a large assistance programme in the islands.
Tuvalu is party to a treaty of friendship with the United States,

The highest elevation is 4.6 metres (15 ft) above sea level on Niulakita, which gives Tuvalu the second-lowest maximum elevation of any country (after the Maldives). However, the highest elevations are typically in narrow storm dunes on the ocean side of the islands which are prone to overtopping in tropical cyclones, as occurred with Cyclone Bebe, which was a very early-season storm that passed through the Tuvaluan atolls in October 1972.
Because of the low elevation, the islands that make up this nation are threatened by current and future sea level rise.
Additionally, Tuvalu is annually affected by king tide events which peak towards the end of the austral summer, and raise the sea level higher than a normal high tide. As a result of historical sea level rise, the king tide events lead to flooding of low lying areas, which is compounded when sea levels are further raised by La Niña effects or local storms and waves. In the future, sea level rise may threaten to submerge the nation entirely as it is estimated that a sea level rise of 20–40 centimetres (8–16 inches) in the next 100 years could make Tuvalu uninhabitable.

"Principality of Hutt River" and "Freedom Christianity" out of question only remains the Pitcain Islands.

 The islands are inhabited by the descendants of the Bounty mutineers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitcairn_Islands

hey i remember reading a book about those guys ages ago. I wonder if we just brought them a nice little pile of gold if we could get them to let us have a little piece of land  

[myrkul]

Hrmm fight the bankers with their own game.  That's something I've never heard before.

http://freestateproject.org/