So much talk and 0 action, lets actually make a sovereign territory

[Anon136]

http://www.howtobuyaprivateisland.com/starting-your-own-country.htm

"Can I start my own country" is frequently asked by people interested in private islands. Despite all the hopeful dictators and Kool-Aid drinkers out there, it's pretty difficult to start your own country.
Pirate Island

Islands are a natural choice for starting a country. Islands create a sense of autonomy and independence because their border is already clearly defined. However, there are no undiscovered or unclaimed islands on the planet. Every island on the planet falls under the jurisdiction of one country or another. And countries are naturally quite protective of their territories. You cannot buy an island from a country and claim independence anymore than you can declare sovereignty from your armchair inside a suburban bungalow.

However, you may be able to find a country that is so poor or so corrupt that it would surrender sovereignty over an island in exchange for cash. If you can find a spot that exists outside the territorial waters of any country, you could build your own island. Alternatively, you could create a floating city on a ship. A 'citizen' on a floating city in international waters could be a citizen of the world.

Cautionary Tales of Those Who Tried
sealand passport

People have tried to get around the endless problems of sovereignty by building their own islands, through sand reclamation or floating platforms, often ships. Regardless of where you build, or float, you will probably land in the hot territorial waters of one country or another. Building an island from scratch, like the failed World island project in Dubai, requires relatively shallow waters. If you're far enough offshore to be outside territorial waters, you will need an awful lot of sand (and money) to reach the bottom. If you should decide to take over a small island and create your own banana republic, be prepared to defend yourself against a large neighbouring country who will not take your invasion lightly.

Principality of Sealand
The Principality of Sealand, home to the Bates family since 1967, is a dilapidated and algae covered eyesore, 10 miles off the coast of Suffolk, England. Sealand's claims to sovereignty aren't recognized by any country, but Sealand is still managed (and defended with gunfire if necessary) by the Bates family as though it were recognized. In 1975, Paddy Roy Bates introduced a constitution, flag, national anthem, currency and passports to Sealand. In 2000, HavenCo was said to have established a secure offshore data haven on Sealand, intended to be the Cayman Islands of hosting. HavenCo's Acceptable Use Policy prohibited child pornography, spamming, and malicious hacking, but all other content was acceptable. After HavenCo collapsed, Sealand's government is building a new online casino expected to be open by 2012. Thirty employees would work in Sealand. We'll see.

Minerva Reefs
Claiming sovereignty over an island is nearly impossible, but that hasn't stopped a few people from trying in recent history. Libertarian millionaire Michael Oliver attempted to create a sovereign micronation called Minerva by reclaiming underwater reefs in the Pacific in the 1970s. The site was located about 400 miles south of Fiji and 250 miles west of Tonga. Oliver shipped in some sand from Australia and planted his flag. After Oliver had staked his claim by sending out a declaration of independence to neighbouring countries, Tonga responded to Oliver by dispatching an angry and armed envoy of Tongans to defend their turf. Minerva's flag was unceremoniously removed and Tonga laid real claim to the reef.

Trying to start our own country is a bad idea. We would be well advised to simply all move to an existing real country.

[kokjo]

Hrmm fight the bankers with their own game.  That's something I've never heard before.

http://freestateproject.org/

New Hampshire legislators are only paid a salary of $100 per year, helping ensure the existence of a citizen legislature committed to public service, unlike every other state.

so i can buy them to make laws for me?

[Anon136]

Hrmm fight the bankers with their own game.  That's something I've never heard before.

http://freestateproject.org/

New Hampshire legislators are only paid a salary of $100 per year, helping ensure the existence of a citizen legislature committed to public service, unlike every other state.

so i can buy them to make laws for me?

probably. 99% of people are for sale for the right price.

[btceic]

More Info:

http://www.worldislandinfo.com/Starting%20island%20country.html

                                Starting Your Own Island Country

 

“Let’s blow this fascist popsicle stand!  Purchase a small island somewhere, and start our own country.” – Montgomery Burns

 

People thinking about forming their own nation often turn to islands: they appeal to people’s sense of dominion, and their borders are clear.  One just might get away from it all, and start something new.

 

But a new island country requires an island, and citizens, and there difficulties begin.

 

Problems

Four problems are paramount:

1.    There are no undiscovered or unclaimed islands—with one partial exception.

2.    Existing countries are quite protective of their sovereignty and territorial integrity.

3.    There is no recognized process for forming your own country, and it comes essentially down to power.

4.    It is difficult to obtain a population for a startup country.

 

Solutions….and more problems

People have tried to get around these problems in a variety of ways.

 

Problem 1: No undiscovered islands

●   Since existing islands are claimed, some conclude that they should just build new ones.

●   However, it is quite difficult to find suitable places that do not fall under some kind of national jurisdiction.  If you are making your own land, it has to be outside countries’ territorial waters (generally 12 miles offshore) and exclusive economic zones (generally 200 miles from land)—and there is little or no shallow water outside of such zones.  For instance, the would-be Principality of New Utopia is planned for the Misteriosa Bank in the Caribbean—but it seems to be in the Exclusive Economic Zones of both Honduras and the Cayman Islands (UK).  Both countries have signed the Law of the Sea Treaty, which gives them power to regulate new island creation.

●   The partial exception to the dearth of unclaimed territory is Antarctica, which is essentially international, with nations’ territorial claims effectively suspended.  But the continent is supervised by all the most powerful countries on the planet, and they would not let a startup country grab some of it.

●   (There is a cheat to the land problem, in the eyes of the island purist: build a floating island city—there are several schemes kicking around.  But these would be mere ships, in truth.  And there is the oil rig solution, notably represented by “Sealand,” a surplus-gun-platform “country” off the coast of England.)

 

Problem 2: Existing countries want their islands

●   You can buy islands in many countries, but that means that you are a landowner, not a separate country.

●   While most countries will not surrender sovereignty over a piece of land, it might be possible to find one so poor or corrupt that it would do so.  Some right-wing Americans thought Haiti fit the bill a couple of decades ago, and attempted to buy the Île de la Tortue (Tortuga Island) off the northern coast.  They were going to form the usual libertarian paradise, but even Haiti proved insufficiently abject to fall for the scheme.  (The fate of thousands of Haitians already living on the island was unclear.)

●   You can try to take an island by force, but fortunately for the small states of the Pacific and the Caribbean there are powerful countries that prevent that sort of thing.

 

Problem 3: No process for forming new countries

●   The best solution is to become a leader in an island that might like to break away from its country: Nevis, of St. Kitts-Nevis, for instance.  The separate islands of the Comoros have each achieved substantial autonomy under their own leaders in recent years.  And East Timor has made the transition to sovereign nation.

●   You still need recognition from the international community.  And that requires sympathy, triggered by oppression of your little island, or at least popular support for its breaking away.

●   Barring that, you can try to seize an island nation whole.  This has been attempted by mercenaries in the Comoros (with some success), Vanuatu, and the Maldives.  Once again, it runs into the problem of great power protectors.

 

Problem 4: Need for citizens

●   The breakaway inhabited island solves this problem, but otherwise you have to convince people to come live on your island.

●   Build-your-own-island schemes typically dangle libertarian freedom as their lure.

●   Forming your own cult is promising.  A breakaway Mormon sect in the mid-19th century took this route, briefly declaring Beaver Island in Lake Michigan to be their kingdom.  But cults tend to be unstable and draw the attention of authorities quickly.

 

So starting your own island country is not easy.  As a consolation, you might buy one of the many uninhabited islands in a tolerant country such as the US, Britain, or Canada and declare your own “nation.”  If you don’t cross certain legal lines, you may get away with a lot.

[Anon136]

More Info:

http://www.worldislandinfo.com/Starting%20island%20country.html

                                Starting Your Own Island Country

 

“Let’s blow this fascist popsicle stand!  Purchase a small island somewhere, and start our own country.” – Montgomery Burns

 

People thinking about forming their own nation often turn to islands: they appeal to people’s sense of dominion, and their borders are clear.  One just might get away from it all, and start something new.

 

But a new island country requires an island, and citizens, and there difficulties begin.

 

Problems

Four problems are paramount:

1.    There are no undiscovered or unclaimed islands—with one partial exception.

2.    Existing countries are quite protective of their sovereignty and territorial integrity.

3.    There is no recognized process for forming your own country, and it comes essentially down to power.

4.    It is difficult to obtain a population for a startup country.

 

Solutions….and more problems

People have tried to get around these problems in a variety of ways.

 

Problem 1: No undiscovered islands

●   Since existing islands are claimed, some conclude that they should just build new ones.

●   However, it is quite difficult to find suitable places that do not fall under some kind of national jurisdiction.  If you are making your own land, it has to be outside countries’ territorial waters (generally 12 miles offshore) and exclusive economic zones (generally 200 miles from land)—and there is little or no shallow water outside of such zones.  For instance, the would-be Principality of New Utopia is planned for the Misteriosa Bank in the Caribbean—but it seems to be in the Exclusive Economic Zones of both Honduras and the Cayman Islands (UK).  Both countries have signed the Law of the Sea Treaty, which gives them power to regulate new island creation.

●   The partial exception to the dearth of unclaimed territory is Antarctica, which is essentially international, with nations’ territorial claims effectively suspended.  But the continent is supervised by all the most powerful countries on the planet, and they would not let a startup country grab some of it.

●   (There is a cheat to the land problem, in the eyes of the island purist: build a floating island city—there are several schemes kicking around.  But these would be mere ships, in truth.  And there is the oil rig solution, notably represented by “Sealand,” a surplus-gun-platform “country” off the coast of England.)

 

Problem 2: Existing countries want their islands

●   You can buy islands in many countries, but that means that you are a landowner, not a separate country.

●   While most countries will not surrender sovereignty over a piece of land, it might be possible to find one so poor or corrupt that it would do so.  Some right-wing Americans thought Haiti fit the bill a couple of decades ago, and attempted to buy the Île de la Tortue (Tortuga Island) off the northern coast.  They were going to form the usual libertarian paradise, but even Haiti proved insufficiently abject to fall for the scheme.  (The fate of thousands of Haitians already living on the island was unclear.)

●   You can try to take an island by force, but fortunately for the small states of the Pacific and the Caribbean there are powerful countries that prevent that sort of thing.

 

Problem 3: No process for forming new countries

●   The best solution is to become a leader in an island that might like to break away from its country: Nevis, of St. Kitts-Nevis, for instance.  The separate islands of the Comoros have each achieved substantial autonomy under their own leaders in recent years.  And East Timor has made the transition to sovereign nation.

●   You still need recognition from the international community.  And that requires sympathy, triggered by oppression of your little island, or at least popular support for its breaking away.

●   Barring that, you can try to seize an island nation whole.  This has been attempted by mercenaries in the Comoros (with some success), Vanuatu, and the Maldives.  Once again, it runs into the problem of great power protectors.

 

Problem 4: Need for citizens

●   The breakaway inhabited island solves this problem, but otherwise you have to convince people to come live on your island.

●   Build-your-own-island schemes typically dangle libertarian freedom as their lure.

●   Forming your own cult is promising.  A breakaway Mormon sect in the mid-19th century took this route, briefly declaring Beaver Island in Lake Michigan to be their kingdom.  But cults tend to be unstable and draw the attention of authorities quickly.

 

So starting your own island country is not easy.  As a consolation, you might buy one of the many uninhabited islands in a tolerant country such as the US, Britain, or Canada and declare your own “nation.”  If you don’t cross certain legal lines, you may get away with a lot.

yes thats why i said starting a country is a bad idea. Lets instead get a bunch of libertarians to move to an existing country that is very small. Like the free state project only we could actually take over a soveriegn government not a city council.

[wachtwoord]

Actually the conclusion of all this is quite simple. To do any of this (start a new country or change a current one to adopt the Libertarian views) quickly requires a revolution (and all the disadvantages associated with a revolution.

The only other solution is to change society slowly. The downside of this is it takes time.

I am going to follow the first approach (Libertarian viewpoints are superior so they will prevail in the long run). If anyone attempt the first approach and success in stable fashion (as in the end result is stable) it is quite likely I will become a citizen. I believe there are many people like me so point 4 on your list is unlikely to be a problem. The first 3 are however

[Anon136]

Actually the conclusion of all this is quite simple. To do any of this (start a new country or change a current one to adopt the Libertarian views) quickly requires a revolution (and all the disadvantages associated with a revolution.

The only other solution is to change society slowly. The downside of this is it takes time.

I am going to follow the first approach (Libertarian viewpoints are superior so they will prevail in the long run). If anyone attempt the first approach and success in stable fashion (as in the end result is stable) it is quite likely I will become a citizen. I believe there are many people like me so point 4 on your list is unlikely to be a problem. The first 3 are however

if it was small enough of a country we could have the so called revolution in the voting booth. It could actually happen, not in the us but in a country with a population of 10k you could very easily have an entirely non violent revolution, in the near term, by throwing some cash around.

[BTCLuke]

Anon136, your heart is in the right place, and I applaud your attempts to find a new way out of our slavery.

Unfortunately you still have too much faith in nations. They are ruthless, murdering barbarians that won't stand for any part of these answers. The sooner you see them for what they really are, the sooner you'll know that you can't run and you can't hide... They'll find and destroy you anyway.

he makes a big error here. He says "without paying taxes to another nation for protection, then you are doomed" No one suggested not purchasing defense.

I suggest that purchasing defense is a naive concept. If nations won't sell you land because of their old boy's club, what makes you think one will sell you security from all the other countries in their club?

That pretty much makes the country who sells such to you an enemy of the rest of the planet. They don't want to lose their hard-earned relationships with the others, or worse yet, start a war, over little old us... Even if we pay them astronomical fees.

But if we get to purchase it from any sovereign in the world than it will, technically, be being provided to us by a competitive market. We can simply fly a flag of convenience and probably pay out the fucking nose for it, but still it would be worth it.

If you tightly align yourself with one country in this manner though, what you REALLY need is the rest of the world's protection from IT.

Imagine if the Free State Project got really popular... All the libertarians moved there and the state laws all changed to something pretty much opposite of the federal laws? Worse yet, the low-tax, high-entrepreneur environment would make our state extremely rich while the rest of the country was in steep decline.

Do you think Obomba would stand for it?

Do you think the dumbasses in the other 49 states would either?

There is in fact, a precedent for this exact situation in the USA. It happened in 1861... And in more than one state... They got 11 states together, thinking they had safety in numbers.

To my best knowledge, that didn't turn out too well for the states that were trying to make new laws for themselves.

Again, success is your enemy when dealing with nations, because nations always will have more guns.

plus in every other failed attempt that i know of it was not the same thing that i am proposing. a) it was in the past that everyone tried to create new sovereigns.

This really doesn't help your point. If anything, people are more stupid and trained to enjoy socialism today.

b) it was before the internet, now the public can see government crimes and the people on this island would not be foreigners, they would be peoples relatives from all over the world.

Here's the thing though about the internet: Those who aren't suspicious of their government won't be watching for this. They won't be using a non-state-controlled internet, they won't be searching keywords that have anything to do with your movement, and the states damn sure won't be reporting any part of your efforts in the mainstream media.

The internet will be useful when the day comes that we've completely bypassed the ISPs with mesh networking. We're just one WiFi specification away from being able to do that now.

But even when ISPs no longer exist, and the state can't control the media so effectively, there still has to be a person-to-person effort to get people to not trust their government enough to care... That will take a long time and a lot of effort by a hell of a lot of people, period.

No webcam show of a libertarian paradise will ever be popular here, not before each person here is 'converted' directly first and the internet has no more ISPs.
 

also sorry i keep adding to this. We dont have to step on anyones toes. Its not like we would be a harbor for pirates, digital or otherwise.

This is uber-naive too. Governments will say that you do, and then attack you for that reason regardless of the truth.

Not to mention the 'turrists you're harboring too!

Even if you try your hardest to not let any of this element in; your lax laws will easily let them slip right in amongst you, and of course your country would be the most desireable place for them to go now, wouldn't it?

Might as well officially let them all in. It will make no difference at all.

if it was small enough of a country we could have the so called revolution in the voting booth.

Again with the Naivety... Voting booths don't elect leaders! They only give the illusion of doing so, to keep existing populations from revolting.

Again, your heart is in the right place but these answers are not going to work simply because the world is a much more evil and twisted place than you seem to believe. I recommend reading more history. We're not the first to seek for these answers.

[Anon136]

I think your strongest point here was that nations wouldnt want to risk their diplomatic relationships with other nations inorder to provide us with defense. This may very well be correct. But what about another strategy.

Still i want you to consider that perhaps other massacres by western governments went unnoticed because the victims were foreigners. Perhaps this time it would be different. Any first world country that attacked us would have tons of its own people living on our island since people would come from every where in the world. Perhaps if they tried to attack us people would take notice, perhaps people would go to the internet specifically to read about this story if it wasnt covered on the news. after all MANY people would personally know people who lived on the island. That could make things different.

also im not as naive as you think. I know that nations are a ruthless old boys club. Im not suggesting that we build a nation on good will. Im suggesting that we hammer out mechanisms that make it not in their interest to attack us, if that is possible which maybe it isnt.

[myrkul]

Still i want you to consider that perhaps other massacres by western governments went unnoticed because the victims were foreigners. Perhaps this time it would be different. Any first world country that attacked us would have tons of its own people living on our island since people would come from every where in the world. Perhaps if they tried to attack us people would take notice, perhaps people would go to the internet specifically to read about this story if it wasnt covered on the news. after all MANY people would personally know people who lived on the island. That could make things different.

Who said it would be a first world country?

Just about any 3rd world nation would gladly nuke us off the planet to curry favor with one of the big boys.

[Anon136]

Still i want you to consider that perhaps other massacres by western governments went unnoticed because the victims were foreigners. Perhaps this time it would be different. Any first world country that attacked us would have tons of its own people living on our island since people would come from every where in the world. Perhaps if they tried to attack us people would take notice, perhaps people would go to the internet specifically to read about this story if it wasnt covered on the news. after all MANY people would personally know people who lived on the island. That could make things different.

Who said it would be a first world country?

Just about any 3rd world nation would gladly nuke us off the planet to curry favor with one of the big boys.

right, i think we would be capable of defending ourselves against these sorts of people. you know somolian pirates and what not i think we could handle. Of course i could be wrong.

and idk about a nuke that was handed off to a third world country by a first world country intorder to attack us. Thats a tricky one but its the sort of thing we should be talking about. How likely is it really?

for that matter how much are governments really going to care about 10,000 libertarians minding their own business out in the middle of no where? sure they ought to care but do they have the foresight to understand why they ought to care? Its a similar thing to bitcoin, when its small it isnt worth caring about and as soon as it isnt small anymore it becomes too costly to deal with which creates a curve where it is never in their interest, in the short term, to deal with us. And governments always think in the short term.

[myrkul]

Still i want you to consider that perhaps other massacres by western governments went unnoticed because the victims were foreigners. Perhaps this time it would be different. Any first world country that attacked us would have tons of its own people living on our island since people would come from every where in the world. Perhaps if they tried to attack us people would take notice, perhaps people would go to the internet specifically to read about this story if it wasnt covered on the news. after all MANY people would personally know people who lived on the island. That could make things different.

Who said it would be a first world country?

Just about any 3rd world nation would gladly nuke us off the planet to curry favor with one of the big boys.

right, i think we would be capable of defending ourselves against these sorts of people.

It's 21 square km. A single "accidental detonation" or "off-target test launch" and the entire island is a radioactive atoll. If that.

[Anon136]

Still i want you to consider that perhaps other massacres by western governments went unnoticed because the victims were foreigners. Perhaps this time it would be different. Any first world country that attacked us would have tons of its own people living on our island since people would come from every where in the world. Perhaps if they tried to attack us people would take notice, perhaps people would go to the internet specifically to read about this story if it wasnt covered on the news. after all MANY people would personally know people who lived on the island. That could make things different.

Who said it would be a first world country?

Just about any 3rd world nation would gladly nuke us off the planet to curry favor with one of the big boys.

right, i think we would be capable of defending ourselves against these sorts of people.

It's 21 square km. A single "accidental detonation" or "off-target test launch" and the entire island is a radioactive atoll. If that.

yea, all gathering togater like that in the same place would make us vulnerable. if we are spread out all over the world communicating through darknets and building a global economy out of anarchic crypto-currencies than we stay decentralized and avoid single points of failure. Its sad though, i want to build my own walled city so badly 

[myrkul]

Still i want you to consider that perhaps other massacres by western governments went unnoticed because the victims were foreigners. Perhaps this time it would be different. Any first world country that attacked us would have tons of its own people living on our island since people would come from every where in the world. Perhaps if they tried to attack us people would take notice, perhaps people would go to the internet specifically to read about this story if it wasnt covered on the news. after all MANY people would personally know people who lived on the island. That could make things different.

Who said it would be a first world country?

Just about any 3rd world nation would gladly nuke us off the planet to curry favor with one of the big boys.

right, i think we would be capable of defending ourselves against these sorts of people.

It's 21 square km. A single "accidental detonation" or "off-target test launch" and the entire island is a radioactive atoll. If that.

yea, all gathering togater like that in the same place would make us vulnerable. if we are spread out all over the world communicating through darknets and building a global economy out of anarchic crypto-currencies than we stay decentralized and avoid single points of failure. Its sad though, i want to build my own walled city so badly 

http://applicants.mars-one.com/

Or start a similar plan to go to the Moon. Or Ceres. No AnCap island nation on Earth, I'm sorry. The nation-states have this one all sewn up. The only way to get to there from here is for them to go away, or for us to leave.

[BTCLuke]

Still i want you to consider that perhaps other massacres by western governments went unnoticed because the victims were foreigners.

The south weren't foreigners to Lincoln. He'd lived in New Orleans himself!

I could likely dig up a half dozen other examples too why the victims of national conquest don't have to be foreign, but surely you get the point... Nations are simply ruthless, and always will be so. Whenever you create a position of power, such as head of a state, all it takes is a few terms for the most Palpatine-like among the country to rise to that position. There is no way around this except for Anarchy.

Judging by your Avatar, I think we're together on this much... So why is it so hard for you to see that the whole world is populated by countries run by these evil bastards, and don't want your free society to threaten their rule in any small way?
  

Perhaps this time it would be different. Any first world country that attacked us would have tons of its own people living on our island since people would come from every where in the world. Perhaps if they tried to attack us people would take notice, perhaps people would go to the internet specifically to read about this story if it wasnt covered on the news. after all MANY people would personally know people who lived on the island. That could make things different.

When the internet is more free we'll be able to have that to an extent... But even once we do, we'd need a heck of a lot more than friends and family back home to care about us to save us from nations' wrath... These people may individually care about you, but they obviously don't give two farts in the wind about freedom from their slavery or else they'd be joining you.

They'll just think you're fruity, and won't be too surprised when the mainstream media tells them that some silly calamity befell your island and you sadly died because you're a shortsighted fruitcake.

also im not as naive as you think. I know that nations are a ruthless old boys club. Im not suggesting that we build a nation on good will. Im suggesting that we hammer out mechanisms that make it not in their interest to attack us, if that is possible which maybe it isnt.

I tried that line of thought for a loooong time with the seasteaders.

Trust me, it isn't.

yea, all gathering togater like that in the same place would make us vulnerable. if we are spread out all over the world communicating through darknets and building a global economy out of anarchic crypto-currencies than we stay decentralized and avoid single points of failure. Its sad though, i want to build my own walled city so badly 

Thank goodness you're starting to come around. I'd love to see the walled city too, but until you can afford bigger guns than the biggest nation's guns, there is no way to defend those walls.

http://applicants.mars-one.com/

Or start a similar plan to go to the Moon. Or Ceres. No AnCap island nation on Earth, I'm sorry. The nation-states have this one all sewn up. The only way to get to there from here is for them to go away, or for us to leave.

Moonsteading appealed to me for a bit too, but then I remembered some Arthur C Clarke...  

Moving an existing asteroid's path ever so gently would give them a way to both destroy all life on our new habitat, AND claim it was an act of nature.

Besides, if we can get there, and their piggybank is bigger than ours, what's to stop them from getting there soon afterwards, claiming the whole moon/planet, and declaring us outlaws over there?

You can't run into space, either.

You can only wake people up... That's our only hope for freedom.

[myrkul]

http://applicants.mars-one.com/

Or start a similar plan to go to the Moon. Or Ceres. No AnCap island nation on Earth, I'm sorry. The nation-states have this one all sewn up. The only way to get to there from here is for them to go away, or for us to leave.

Moonsteading appealed to me for a bit too, but then I remembered some Arthur C Clarke...  

Don't forget your Heinlein....

You can only wake people up... That's our only hope for freedom.

I hesitate to say only. But it's certainly our best.

[Anon136]

ok ok btcluke i get it, you are probably just trying to save my life.   

But what about big venture capital, silicon valley venture capital getting behind sea-steading.

would the old boys blow up silicon valley venture capitalist ships?

[BTCLuke]

ok ok btcluke i get it, you are probably just trying to save my life.  

Well, not to sound cold-hearted, but it's more about saving our movement time & energy that would be wasted if some of us went down that tired, old, dead-end path yet again.

Bitcoin is actually part of a plan that will WORK to bring us freedom. Seasteading sadly isn't. Anything at all that centralizes a group of people at odds with governments simply can't work. Their guns are bigger and they aren't afraid to use them.

But what about big venture capital, silicon valley venture capital getting behind sea-steading.

would the old boys blow up silicon valley venture capitalist ships?

No, they wouldn't do it that way at all.

Assuming you get some VC money interested, and that is a HUGE assumption given the obvious downside, you'd likely see governments wait for us to get just to the point of becoming profitable and then one sad day a submarine will fire a torpedo at the colony from under the waves, never detected, with nobody taking credit for the deed.

Too well funded to fall to a mere torpedo? Then they'll use biological agents, or have a spy come aboard and poison our water supply, or one of a thousand other examples that looks best to them at the time.

[dank]

You can only wake people up... That's our only hope for freedom.

Exactly.  I dreamed of creating an island nation for a while but I realized it wouldn't change much in the big picture.  The proper way to free the slaves is to:

1. Take LSD and lose all your fear
2. Call out the government for being a bunch of greedy, corrupt, serial killing, coked up gangsters, repeatedly.
3. Tell everyone the CIA will kill you and you'll come back to life at a music festival to make earth heaven, to remove the negativity.
4. The CIA will surely hear you.  They know their reign of power is approaching an end, they'd prefer to have peace rather than retaliation.
5. Let the CIA peacefully kill you to show the world proof.
6. Ejoy doing anything you can believe while feeling infinite love.
7. World sees that you were right, the economy crashes and a music festival is assembled.
7. Play guitar at music festival

This way, we can have a peaceful rEVOLution.

[myrkul]

You can only wake people up... That's our only hope for freedom.

Exactly.  I dreamed of creating an island nation for a while but I realized it wouldn't change much in the big picture.  The proper way to free the slaves is to:

1. Take LSD and lose all your fear
2. Call out the government for being a bunch of greedy, corrupt, serial killing, coked up gangsters, repeatedly.
3. Tell everyone the CIA will kill you and you'll come back to life at a music festival to make earth heaven, to remove the negativity.
4. The CIA will surely hear you.  They know their reign of power is approaching an end, they'd prefer to have peace rather than retaliation.
5. Let the CIA peacefully kill you to show the world proof.
6. Ejoy doing anything you can believe while feeling infinite love.
7. World sees that you were right, the economy crashes and a music festival is assembled.
7. Play guitar at music festival

This way, we can have a peaceful rEVOLution.

*will laugh their asses off.