Let the Machines do the Work (The end of Slavery)

[Ekaros]

As it has been said before, our society could probably afford taxing hard (eventually through printing money, and thus inflation) a relatively small working elite, to allow the others to live a simple frugal country life without need of doing anything. But do we really want it?

Question is more of do we have alternatives? Entry to job market seems to be trending to situation where less and less people have work available.

Would you like to know why?

Short term profit over longer term... Would be my guess.


I quite worried about my short term employ-ability. Even educated people are unemployed and getting any reasonably paying work seems to be hard.

[Mike Christ]

No work?  Create work

[Ekaros]

No work?  Create work

Ah so easy...

[Mike Christ]

No work?  Create work

Ah so easy...

Ha ha maybe not as easy as I'm making it.  But for example: Bill wants to be a video game designer.  But there's no positions available anywhere!  What does Bill do?  He goes indie, maybe gets a few buddies who are good at music or coding etc., and makes his own video games.

[myrkul]

As it has been said before, our society could probably afford taxing hard (eventually through printing money, and thus inflation) a relatively small working elite, to allow the others to live a simple frugal country life without need of doing anything. But do we really want it?

Question is more of do we have alternatives? Entry to job market seems to be trending to situation where less and less people have work available.

Would you like to know why?

Short term profit over longer term... Would be my guess.

No, actually. businesses are contracting their workforce to preserve long-term viability.

Again, would you like to know why?

[1m1nd]

As it has been said before, our society could probably afford taxing hard (eventually through printing money, and thus inflation) a relatively small working elite, to allow the others to live a simple frugal country life without need of doing anything. But do we really want it?

Question is more of do we have alternatives? Entry to job market seems to be trending to situation where less and less people have work available.

Would you like to know why?

Short term profit over longer term... Would be my guess.

No, actually. businesses are contracting their workforce to preserve long-term viability.

Again, would you like to know why?

Why don't you tell?

[1m1nd]

Share you wealth.

GIVE YOUR NEXT MINING RIG TO A FRIEND AS A GIFT. Not me, a friend. Or even a family member.

Stop telling people what to do and start doing it yourself

[myrkul]

Entry to job market seems to be trending to situation where less and less people have work available.

Would you like to know why?

Short term profit over longer term... Would be my guess.

No, actually. businesses are contracting their workforce to preserve long-term viability.

Again, would you like to know why?

Why don't you tell?

Nobody's asking.

The answer, of course, is price floors. Specifically, a price floor on labor. Price floors always result in supply outstripping demand. (When they do anything at all)

[FinShaggy]

Yeah, but capitalism doesn't just "become" socialism. Nor is it necessary to get rid of capitalism in order to become free.

That's what people said about slavery "Slavery does not just 'go away' and get replaced by industrialism, it's impossible."

And yes, capitalism is a form of slavery, as recognized by most of the rest of the world.

[FinShaggy]

The argument is, how do we do the following:

A. Become free (by removing the state)

and

B. Ensure everyone's playing nicely through socialism (to make this system work)

I never suggested removing the state, you are simply arguing with yourself.

[FinShaggy]

There is two alternatives, either we go socialism. Or we don't care about majority's situation...

Agreed, and I think most people would like to just ignore the struggling majority (even "middle class" citizens try to ignore the struggle, when most of them are in more debt than anyone, and there for ARE the struggle)

[myrkul]

Yeah, but capitalism doesn't just "become" socialism. Nor is it necessary to get rid of capitalism in order to become free.

That's what people said about slavery "Slavery does not just 'go away' and get replaced by industrialism, it's impossible."

And yes, capitalism is a form of slavery, as recognized by most of the rest of the world.

I understand your logic is impaired, but maybe you can still grasp this:

The state is your problem, not capitalism. While the State exists, man cannot be free.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism

[FinShaggy]

Share you wealth.

GIVE YOUR NEXT MINING RIG TO A FRIEND AS A GIFT. Not me, a friend. Or even a family member.

Stop telling people what to do and start doing it yourself

LOL

I am starting doing it myself, I don't even mine yet, and I will be getting someone else a rig as I buy myself my own first rig.

So now that I did what you said, you do what I sad and GIFT YOUR NEXT RIG.

[FinShaggy]

I understand your logic is impaired, but maybe you can still grasp this:

The state is your problem, not capitalism. While the State exists, man cannot be free.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism

The state is not the problem, it is the conservative republicans. MY STATE (Texas) is perfect for this plan.
And if by "state" you mean "fed", then yes end the state. But the Texas government needs to stay in tact, while changing just a little.

[myrkul]

I understand your logic is impaired, but maybe you can still grasp this:

The state is your problem, not capitalism. While the State exists, man cannot be free.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism

The state is not the problem, it is the conservative republicans. MY STATE (Texas) is perfect for this plan.
And if by "state" you mean "fed", then yes end the state.

RIGHT! The most conservative state in the union is the PERFECT breeding ground for Robosocialism!

And no, by "state" I mean "government."

[johnyj]

Just like gold, a medium of exchange is need to be produced by labor, and the value of it should be based on demand

This means, when goods/services are abundant, the gold become expensive, make the gold mining profitable, so that lot's of people will mine gold; when lot's of people are mining gold, the goods/services will become expensive, people will move from gold production into goods/services production

In this way you will always have 100% employment

So, in a modern society where higher and higher productivity is reached through automation and AI, more and more people will only need to mine bitcoin to make a living. But if too many people are going for bitcoin mining, then the labor force reduced and the other goods/services will become scarce, bitcoin price will fall

But this does not solve the problem of higher productivity people also mine the coin when they work. To be fair,  coin mining should be a full time job which need constant time input, this is currently a drawback of bitcoin

[FinShaggy]

RIGHT! The most conservative state in the union is the PERFECT breeding ground for Robosocialism!

And no, by "state" I mean "government."

YOU DON'T EVEN MAKE POINTS WHEN YOU TALK.

Yes, Texas would be a perfect 'breeding ground' for a Robosocialist Republic, just as it is serving as a perfect 'breeding ground' for regular socialism (have you ever been to a college campus), and a 'breeding ground' for illegal immigrants (even though conservatives hate them), and a 'breeding ground' for stoners (even though it has some of the harshest drug laws).

[Mike Christ]

I never suggested removing the state, you are simply arguing with yourself.

I'm afraid you're the one arguing with yourself.  You don't say, "I want people to be free and I want to end economic slavery", and then turn around and say, "By the way I agree that we need to be ruled and ordered by the state."

Which is it?  Are you for freedom, or are you against freedom?  Your thread implies you're pro-freedom.  Now you're saying you're pro-control.  Choose a side of the fence.

[FinShaggy]

Just like gold, a medium of exchange is need to be produced by labor, and the value of it should be based on demand

This means, when goods/services are abundant, the gold become expensive, make the gold mining profitable, so that lot's of people will mine gold; when lot's of people are mining gold, the goods/services will become expensive, people will move from gold production into goods/services production

In this way you will always have 100% employment

So, in a modern society where higher and higher productivity is reached through automation and AI, more and more people will only need to mine bitcoin to make a living. But if too many people are going for bitcoin mining, then the labor force reduced and the other goods/services will become scarce, bitcoin price will fall

But this does not solve the problem of higher productivity people also mine the coin when they work. To be fair,  coin mining should be a full time job which need constant time input, this is currently a drawback of bitcoin

This is true,
BUT other coins popping up, and already existing can help with that. EX: my plans aren't even primarily with BTC, I see great promise in DVC.

[FinShaggy]

  You don't say, "I want people to be free and I want to end economic slavery", and then turn around and say, "By the way I agree that we need to be ruled and ordered by the state."

Exactly, I don't say that.

What I said is:
I want people to be free to not have to get a job they don't want
&
I want a state that only makes money via SERVICES to it's citizens, that they willingly pay for