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voltesbit777
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May 04, 2017, 03:54:47 PM
 #41

The Japanese Bitcoin exchange market and industry have matured significantly over the past few months, to the point in which the country’s largest financial institutions and corporations have started to launch digital currency exchanges and trading platforms.

In fact, one month after Japan started recognizing Bitcoin as a method of payment, more than ten new companies in the country are reportedly applying to become Bitcoin exchanges. Meanwhile, institutional investors are increasingly gaining interest in the digital currency.

How many Japanese Bitcoin exchanges do you think will launch this year?


This is really such a great news to all bitcoin community in the entire world actually. Imagine different 10 biggest company all over the world are now decided to adopt the system of bitcoin, well that is not astonishing because bitcoin was really has a brighter future. And now it is happening already little by little.

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May 05, 2017, 03:56:18 PM
 #42

This is just the beginning. The other countries are going to take notice of what the Japanese government did. I am sure that China and Russia are carefully studying the implications. And trust me, if China recognizes BTC, it is going to be huge

It would be interesting to know what are the real reasons for the Japanese government to be so loyal toward Bitcoin. Regarding other countries, Russia is highly unlikely to follow Japan's lead, at least, not to the degree of accepting Bitcoin as a rival currency. Further, I warn people not to be too enthusiastic about governments finally "noticing" Bitcoin. It is not given that the "acceptance" that these governments may be looking and going for will make many Bitcoin users happy

It is not even clear as of yet what the Japanese government is actually up to

Yes, we can't know what the Japanese government is up to, but regardless, they are already doing a good thing for bitcoin. I think the rise we are witnessing nowadays is in a good measure due to the fact that the Japanese government has recently started treating bitcoin legally as a form of payment

We can't say that for certain

It may be a Trojan horse decision (don't know how to call such actions properly). I don't necessarily mean evil or otherwise rogue intentions but I'm still curious what has been driving them to do that. After all, accepting Bitcoin as legal tender (provided it is really so) means tougher competition for the Japanese Yen. On the other hand, the government of Japan was fighting with deflation for literally decades, so they may be wanting exactly that, i.e. inflation for the Yen?

They say some inflation is healthy for the economy, they say that deflation is what should be avoided at all costs because it encourages people to not spend their money, so I think you have a point here. But if they think Bitcoin will help to save their economy and that's why they encourage using it, I think that's a good thing.

That would make sense if Bitcoin price surged to a million dollars per coin

Since Bitcoin is likely to be even more deflationary than any other currency out there. What fiat currency do you know that has grown in value a few times within a year? There is no such currency since the growth of that scale would be devastating to any economy. In this manner, the whole effort may be aimed at substituting the Japanese Yen with Bitcoin in the savings of people so that greater amounts of local currency entered circulation (which would be good for inflation)

But why? In my opinion it doesn't matter how much 1 bitcoin costs. What does matter is that people take their money out of a closet and start buying it. That's what's good for the economy.

I'm a biology student, not an economist, so please explain if I get something wrong.
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May 05, 2017, 05:38:00 PM
 #43

That would make sense if Bitcoin price surged to a million dollars per coin

Since Bitcoin is likely to be even more deflationary than any other currency out there. What fiat currency do you know that has grown in value a few times within a year? There is no such currency since the growth of that scale would be devastating to any economy. In this manner, the whole effort may be aimed at substituting the Japanese Yen with Bitcoin in the savings of people so that greater amounts of local currency entered circulation (which would be good for inflation)

But why? In my opinion it doesn't matter how much 1 bitcoin costs. What does matter is that people take their money out of a closet and start buying it. That's what's good for the economy.

I'm a biology student, not an economist, so please explain if I get something wrong.

You get everything right, in general

What you don't get is that to make this policy of "people taking their money out of a closet and buying Bitcoin with it" even remotely successful, literally millions of people will have to buy bitcoins, and that would produce an exponential demand with Bitcoin prices hitting astronomical figures. In other words, there are not so many bitcoins as there should be people wanting to buy them if the Japanese government were really going to implement something along these lines and hoped to achieve a noticeable result at that

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May 06, 2017, 07:02:44 PM
 #44

That would make sense if Bitcoin price surged to a million dollars per coin

Since Bitcoin is likely to be even more deflationary than any other currency out there. What fiat currency do you know that has grown in value a few times within a year? There is no such currency since the growth of that scale would be devastating to any economy. In this manner, the whole effort may be aimed at substituting the Japanese Yen with Bitcoin in the savings of people so that greater amounts of local currency entered circulation (which would be good for inflation)

But why? In my opinion it doesn't matter how much 1 bitcoin costs. What does matter is that people take their money out of a closet and start buying it. That's what's good for the economy.

I'm a biology student, not an economist, so please explain if I get something wrong.

You get everything right, in general

What you don't get is that to make this policy of "people taking their money out of a closet and buying Bitcoin with it" even remotely successful, literally millions of people will have to buy bitcoins, and that would produce an exponential demand with Bitcoin prices hitting astronomical figures. In other words, there are not so many bitcoins as there should be people wanting to buy them if the Japanese government were really going to implement something along these lines and hoped to achieve a noticeable result at that

Thanks for the explanation. Indeed you've noticed what I can't understand so far. Even now I think that a limited number of bitcoins can't be a problem because that only would lead to the increasing of bitcoin price. Why is it bad for the economy if the price of one satoshi was $1? But I have a feeling that I can't get it because I'm not aware of some mysteries of the economy.
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May 06, 2017, 07:21:27 PM
 #45

Thanks for the explanation. Indeed you've noticed what I can't understand so far. Even now I think that a limited number of bitcoins can't be a problem because that only would lead to the increasing of bitcoin price. Why is it bad for the economy if the price of one satoshi was $1? But I have a feeling that I can't get it because I'm not aware of some mysteries of the economy.
Bitcoin price is bound to get only higher. Bitcoin production/mining is slowing down, demand and adoption will increase, purchasing power will be higher as time progresses.
But the situation when $1 = 1 Satoshi is not possible in the foreseeable future. It will be possible only in case when:

- US dollar will crash and hyperinflation will destroy purchasing power of USD
- distant future, when inflation of USD combined with increased price of BTC will do the job


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May 06, 2017, 07:51:10 PM
 #46

Why is it bad for the economy if the price of one satoshi was $1?
It isn't. You can print dollars and there are billions in circulation, while there's just a few million Bitcoins. Yes, just a few, because a large part of the ones mined till this day has been lost, or is owned by some mysterious perma holders like Satoshi. Also Dollars are used by a relatively small number of people. If you travel to Europe, you won't be able to buy anything with dollars, although the currency is recognized in Europe and you can exchange them on every corner, no store will take it.
This means that a 1$=1s is possible if Bitcoin becomes a secondary currency, acceptable everywhere as a form of electronic payment system.

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May 06, 2017, 08:08:06 PM
Last edit: May 06, 2017, 08:24:14 PM by deisik
 #47

That would make sense if Bitcoin price surged to a million dollars per coin

Since Bitcoin is likely to be even more deflationary than any other currency out there. What fiat currency do you know that has grown in value a few times within a year? There is no such currency since the growth of that scale would be devastating to any economy. In this manner, the whole effort may be aimed at substituting the Japanese Yen with Bitcoin in the savings of people so that greater amounts of local currency entered circulation (which would be good for inflation)

But why? In my opinion it doesn't matter how much 1 bitcoin costs. What does matter is that people take their money out of a closet and start buying it. That's what's good for the economy.

I'm a biology student, not an economist, so please explain if I get something wrong.

You get everything right, in general

What you don't get is that to make this policy of "people taking their money out of a closet and buying Bitcoin with it" even remotely successful, literally millions of people will have to buy bitcoins, and that would produce an exponential demand with Bitcoin prices hitting astronomical figures. In other words, there are not so many bitcoins as there should be people wanting to buy them if the Japanese government were really going to implement something along these lines and hoped to achieve a noticeable result at that

Thanks for the explanation. Indeed you've noticed what I can't understand so far. Even now I think that a limited number of bitcoins can't be a problem because that only would lead to the increasing of bitcoin price. Why is it bad for the economy if the price of one satoshi was $1? But I have a feeling that I can't get it because I'm not aware of some mysteries of the economy

Even self-proclaimed gurus of economics here can't grasp that

But the answer is pretty simple though. If we assume that fiat dies and Bitcoin takes over, the constant appreciation would be devastating to the economy. I've even created a thread where I explained everything in pesky details, and no guru or otherwise ventured to challenge that explanation. In short, the reason is that the profit margins of producers (if we calculate them in bitcoins) change non-linearly in respect to change in Bitcoin appreciation rates. In other words, they would decline faster than Bitcoin might appreciate. To add injury to insult, they may and will in fact turn negative at some level of appreciation, i.e. profits will become losses (when the proceeds stop covering expenses), and thus the producers will have to shut down their businesses altogether and fire their stuff. How can that be good? On the other hand, if Bitcoin continues to remain outside the economy, then its price will be mostly irrelevant

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May 07, 2017, 04:49:06 AM
 #48

Why is it bad for the economy if the price of one satoshi was $1?
It isn't. You can print dollars and there are billions in circulation, while there's just a few million Bitcoins. Yes, just a few, because a large part of the ones mined till this day has been lost, or is owned by some mysterious perma holders like Satoshi. Also Dollars are used by a relatively small number of people. If you travel to Europe, you won't be able to buy anything with dollars, although the currency is recognized in Europe and you can exchange them on every corner, no store will take it.
This means that a 1$=1s is possible if Bitcoin becomes a secondary currency, acceptable everywhere as a form of electronic payment system.

You are comparing the number of bitcoins and number of dollars in circulation, while you are talking about 1 satoshi = 1 USD.
Compare the number of satoshis there are and the number of dollars. There are a lot more satoshis than dollars in circulation. So even if Bitcoin becomes as dominant as the dollar, 1s=1$ looks unlikely.

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May 07, 2017, 11:30:28 AM
 #49

Why is it bad for the economy if the price of one satoshi was $1?
It isn't. You can print dollars and there are billions in circulation, while there's just a few million Bitcoins. Yes, just a few, because a large part of the ones mined till this day has been lost, or is owned by some mysterious perma holders like Satoshi. Also Dollars are used by a relatively small number of people. If you travel to Europe, you won't be able to buy anything with dollars, although the currency is recognized in Europe and you can exchange them on every corner, no store will take it.
This means that a 1$=1s is possible if Bitcoin becomes a secondary currency, acceptable everywhere as a form of electronic payment system

It is not bad as long as there is "bad" money present in circulation

And this is what the Japanese government may be trying to perpetrate. Namely, to make the Yen into the bad money, so that committed savers and holders dumped their stashes of the national currency and started hoarding bitcoins instead. Thereby, the amount of "bad" money in circulation will increase, and, consequently, that will push inflation higher. But if there were no "bad" money (i.e. just Bitcoin alone as a currency), the result would be quite the opposite, and instead of inflation, the government would only get severe deflation, something they are desperately fighting with

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May 07, 2017, 11:41:39 AM
 #50

Thanks for the explanation. Indeed you've noticed what I can't understand so far. Even now I think that a limited number of bitcoins can't be a problem because that only would lead to the increasing of bitcoin price. Why is it bad for the economy if the price of one satoshi was $1? But I have a feeling that I can't get it because I'm not aware of some mysteries of the economy.
Bitcoin price is bound to get only higher. Bitcoin production/mining is slowing down, demand and adoption will increase, purchasing power will be higher as time progresses.
But the situation when $1 = 1 Satoshi is not possible in the foreseeable future. It will be possible only in case when:

- US dollar will crash and hyperinflation will destroy purchasing power of USD
- distant future, when inflation of USD combined with increased price of BTC will do the job

Bitcoin reaching the value of 100 million dollars each is possible and it is not impossible as long as bitcoin continue to exist as a currency both online and offline. It does not need to kill the US dollars so that it can reach that value but let the natural growth of bitcoin do the job and as long as the number of bitcoin users grows everyday then so as the price of bitcoin.
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May 07, 2017, 11:52:30 AM
 #51

Japan is one of the most advance country in terms of technology and such online things and bitcoins is one of the biggest thing online so no doubts about bitcoins being accepted in japan,expect more and more japaneses exchange in this coming months and year
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May 07, 2017, 02:07:40 PM
 #52

I think in japan have many who know bitcoin so many who need it.
That's what makes the bitcoin exchange always increase in Japan
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May 07, 2017, 02:16:56 PM
 #53

Why is it bad for the economy if the price of one satoshi was $1?
It isn't. You can print dollars and there are billions in circulation, while there's just a few million Bitcoins. Yes, just a few, because a large part of the ones mined till this day has been lost, or is owned by some mysterious perma holders like Satoshi. Also Dollars are used by a relatively small number of people. If you travel to Europe, you won't be able to buy anything with dollars, although the currency is recognized in Europe and you can exchange them on every corner, no store will take it.
This means that a 1$=1s is possible if Bitcoin becomes a secondary currency, acceptable everywhere as a form of electronic payment system.

You are comparing the number of bitcoins and number of dollars in circulation, while you are talking about 1 satoshi = 1 USD.
Compare the number of satoshis there are and the number of dollars. There are a lot more satoshis than dollars in circulation. So even if Bitcoin becomes as dominant as the dollar, 1s=1$ looks unlikely.

Ok, I see the point, but add the number of people using it to the equation. If Bitcoin starts being used worldwide it will become something more than USD. Like I said you can't go into a store somewhere in Europe or Australia and pay with USD without converting, but it's possible to do with Bitcoin. It's there to fill the niche.

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May 07, 2017, 02:48:47 PM
 #54

Thanks for the explanation. Indeed you've noticed what I can't understand so far. Even now I think that a limited number of bitcoins can't be a problem because that only would lead to the increasing of bitcoin price. Why is it bad for the economy if the price of one satoshi was $1? But I have a feeling that I can't get it because I'm not aware of some mysteries of the economy.
Bitcoin price is bound to get only higher. Bitcoin production/mining is slowing down, demand and adoption will increase, purchasing power will be higher as time progresses.
But the situation when $1 = 1 Satoshi is not possible in the foreseeable future. It will be possible only in case when:

- US dollar will crash and hyperinflation will destroy purchasing power of USD
- distant future, when inflation of USD combined with increased price of BTC will do the job

Bitcoin reaching the value of 100 million dollars each is possible and it is not impossible as long as bitcoin continue to exist as a currency both online and offline. It does not need to kill the US dollars so that it can reach that value but let the natural growth of bitcoin do the job and as long as the number of bitcoin users grows everyday then so as the price of bitcoin

The devil is in the detail (as always, anyway)

If we exclude the possibility of the US dollar crashing when just one Bitcoin can be legitimately worth virtually any amount of dollars, the price of 100M dollars per coin would be when trades will be conducted with mini and micro subunits of 1 satoshi. In other words, the market will be as thin as the surface of a soap bubble, and it will be as unstable. I guess trying to sell just 1 bitcoin will cause the price to crash from 100M down to 100k dollars. That's basically why such prices will be totally irrelevant since price volatility will be effectively equal to Bitcoin price itself in such extreme cases

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May 07, 2017, 03:12:59 PM
 #55

Japan is one of the most advance country in terms of technology and such online things and bitcoins is one of the biggest thing online so no doubts about bitcoins being accepted in japan,expect more and more japaneses exchange in this coming months and year
The main reason for the increase in exchanges from Japan is because they recently legalized bitcoin and so you can expect more investors starting exchange as it is the most lucrative business if you are able to provide a decent service.


I think in japan have many who know bitcoin so many who need it.
That's what makes the bitcoin exchange always increase in Japan
It is not about knowing bitcoin,since bitcoin is legalized more investors will be happy to invest their money in it and so is the reason we are seeing more volume from Japanese exchanges and so there will be more exchanges to tap the increasing user base.



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AngelSky
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May 07, 2017, 03:15:16 PM
 #56

Japan is one of the most advance country in terms of technology and such online things and bitcoins is one of the biggest thing online so no doubts about bitcoins being accepted in japan,expect more and more japaneses exchange in this coming months and year

I think bitcoin adopted by bitcoin as due to Satoshi was born in the Japan as details updated in the Wiki. There are many exchanges has been started the exchanges in Japan I agree and Even US and China have bitcoin-related business and projects. We are getting adoption more over bitcoin and block chain technology.
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May 08, 2017, 02:49:49 PM
 #57

That would make sense if Bitcoin price surged to a million dollars per coin

Since Bitcoin is likely to be even more deflationary than any other currency out there. What fiat currency do you know that has grown in value a few times within a year? There is no such currency since the growth of that scale would be devastating to any economy. In this manner, the whole effort may be aimed at substituting the Japanese Yen with Bitcoin in the savings of people so that greater amounts of local currency entered circulation (which would be good for inflation)

But why? In my opinion it doesn't matter how much 1 bitcoin costs. What does matter is that people take their money out of a closet and start buying it. That's what's good for the economy.

I'm a biology student, not an economist, so please explain if I get something wrong.

You get everything right, in general

What you don't get is that to make this policy of "people taking their money out of a closet and buying Bitcoin with it" even remotely successful, literally millions of people will have to buy bitcoins, and that would produce an exponential demand with Bitcoin prices hitting astronomical figures. In other words, there are not so many bitcoins as there should be people wanting to buy them if the Japanese government were really going to implement something along these lines and hoped to achieve a noticeable result at that

Thanks for the explanation. Indeed you've noticed what I can't understand so far. Even now I think that a limited number of bitcoins can't be a problem because that only would lead to the increasing of bitcoin price. Why is it bad for the economy if the price of one satoshi was $1? But I have a feeling that I can't get it because I'm not aware of some mysteries of the economy

Even self-proclaimed gurus of economics here can't grasp that

But the answer is pretty simple though. If we assume that fiat dies and Bitcoin takes over, the constant appreciation would be devastating to the economy. I've even created a thread where I explained everything in pesky details, and no guru or otherwise ventured to challenge that explanation. In short, the reason is that the profit margins of producers (if we calculate them in bitcoins) change non-linearly in respect to change in Bitcoin appreciation rates. In other words, they would decline faster than Bitcoin might appreciate. To add injury to insult, they may and will in fact turn negative at some level of appreciation, i.e. profits will become losses (when the proceeds stop covering expenses), and thus the producers will have to shut down their businesses altogether and fire their stuff. How can that be good? On the other hand, if Bitcoin continues to remain outside the economy, then its price will be mostly irrelevant

I've read it three times, but it's really hard to grasp. What I understood is that if fiat dies it would be bad for all of us and that in that case we wouldn't be able to enjoy even an enormous price of bitcoin whatever high it was.
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May 08, 2017, 02:59:03 PM
 #58

The Japanese Bitcoin exchange market and industry have matured significantly over the past few months, to the point in which the country’s largest financial institutions and corporations have started to launch digital currency exchanges and trading platforms.

In fact, one month after Japan started recognizing Bitcoin as a method of payment, more than ten new companies in the country are reportedly applying to become Bitcoin exchanges. Meanwhile, institutional investors are increasingly gaining interest in the digital currency.

How many Japanese Bitcoin exchanges do you think will launch this year?


This could be contributing to the recent rise in bitcoin price. There are probably several factors, but it has to play a role.
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May 08, 2017, 03:28:50 PM
 #59

For sure this will likely go up because of the recent news that their country is openly supporting it through passing a law allowing it's used in the country. It is actually encouraging people to use it. With this, then there is likely a great chance more exchanges will sprout out.
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May 08, 2017, 03:43:59 PM
Last edit: May 09, 2017, 02:58:08 PM by deisik
 #60

That would make sense if Bitcoin price surged to a million dollars per coin

Since Bitcoin is likely to be even more deflationary than any other currency out there. What fiat currency do you know that has grown in value a few times within a year? There is no such currency since the growth of that scale would be devastating to any economy. In this manner, the whole effort may be aimed at substituting the Japanese Yen with Bitcoin in the savings of people so that greater amounts of local currency entered circulation (which would be good for inflation)

But why? In my opinion it doesn't matter how much 1 bitcoin costs. What does matter is that people take their money out of a closet and start buying it. That's what's good for the economy.

I'm a biology student, not an economist, so please explain if I get something wrong.

You get everything right, in general

What you don't get is that to make this policy of "people taking their money out of a closet and buying Bitcoin with it" even remotely successful, literally millions of people will have to buy bitcoins, and that would produce an exponential demand with Bitcoin prices hitting astronomical figures. In other words, there are not so many bitcoins as there should be people wanting to buy them if the Japanese government were really going to implement something along these lines and hoped to achieve a noticeable result at that

Thanks for the explanation. Indeed you've noticed what I can't understand so far. Even now I think that a limited number of bitcoins can't be a problem because that only would lead to the increasing of bitcoin price. Why is it bad for the economy if the price of one satoshi was $1? But I have a feeling that I can't get it because I'm not aware of some mysteries of the economy

Even self-proclaimed gurus of economics here can't grasp that

But the answer is pretty simple though. If we assume that fiat dies and Bitcoin takes over, the constant appreciation would be devastating to the economy. I've even created a thread where I explained everything in pesky details, and no guru or otherwise ventured to challenge that explanation. In short, the reason is that the profit margins of producers (if we calculate them in bitcoins) change non-linearly in respect to change in Bitcoin appreciation rates. In other words, they would decline faster than Bitcoin might appreciate. To add injury to insult, they may and will in fact turn negative at some level of appreciation, i.e. profits will become losses (when the proceeds stop covering expenses), and thus the producers will have to shut down their businesses altogether and fire their stuff. How can that be good? On the other hand, if Bitcoin continues to remain outside the economy, then its price will be mostly irrelevant

I've read it three times, but it's really hard to grasp. What I understood is that if fiat dies it would be bad for all of us and that in that case we wouldn't be able to enjoy even an enormous price of bitcoin whatever high it was.

What's the purpose of money appreciation if you are unemployed?

Indeed, it will never come to that (I mean Bitcoin taking over fiat), but if we imagined that, then constant appreciation would make production a losing deal because producers would be better off overall if they fired their stuff and kept their bitcoins rather than invested them into production. In other words, they would get more profits via mere Bitcoin appreciation, and without doing anything at all at that. Right now idly sitting on money is a losing game since inflation is constantly eating away money's value

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