[ANN] [LTC][EU/US][CPPSRB] Hypernova, your mining pool – 1% fee

[M0nsieurChat]

I see the negative feedbacks there. Let us think and work out a solution.

[1715072732]

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[bobers]

Hi, i just joined for litecoin mining. My cgminer shows 295kh/s (for 5850) but pool stats shows just 3kh/s. Can anyone expline that please?

[tocket]

I'm currently using hypernova as my primary pool, because I like the CPPSRB method and have so far been happy with the pool performance. Now I visited this topic because I was curious about the shrinking pool reserve, but was surprised to see that the pool had silently switched to PPS. There is no information about this on the website, apart from some small changes on the front page. The help page still says CPPSRB and 1% fee though. Personally, I would like to see the pool returning to CPPSRB.

There are some concerns I have about the pool being PPS at this point; primarily with regard to the reserve. You state that the reserve is currently held entirely by the miners. That is not a proper pool reserve, as many miners will likely start withdrawing if the reserve drops outside of their comfort zone, thus accelerating the depletion of the reserve. In other words, the pool should have its own reserve, on top of what's in the miners' balances.

Given the small pool reserve, I don't think PPS is currently a viable option for this pool. You say that you have 3300 LTC, of which 10% "has never been withdrawn". If we calculate the probability of pool bankruptcy using the "never withdrawn" (300 LTC) balance as reserve, and an effective fee of 3% (since you say 1% goes to server maintenance fees) that gives a 70% risk of eventual bankruptcy. Using the full 3300 LTC as a reserve instead puts the risk at a more acceptable 2%. To limit the risk of bankruptcy to 1% a pool reserve of at least 3800 LTC is required with the fee at 3%.

tl;dr: The switch to PPS was premature and there is currently a very large (70%) risk of pool bankruptcy due to insufficient pool reserve.

PS: Calculations were based on equations found in this paper: https://bitcoil.co.il/pool_analysis.pdf
Example calculations:
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=exp%28-2*f*R%2FB%29%2C+R%3D300%2C+f%3D0.03%2C+B%3D50
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%28B*ln%281%2Fdelta%29%29%2F%282*f%29%2C+B%3D50%2C+delta%3D0.01%2Cf%3D0.03

[M0nsieurChat]

Fine. This choice wasn't a smart one. We've heard your feedbacks and did a rollback this morning (11AM GMT+1) to CPPSRB with 1% fee.
We learnt from our mistake and won't change the reward system again as it seems CPPSRB is the only one people like !

Enjoy the most stable pool ever !

Soak and M0nsieurChat

[CoinBuzz]

That's great .. Thanks to see it back on board.

[CoinBuzz]

I suggest that put a big text under the shelved earnings and describe how this amount of balance works for those users that maybe become doubtful when they dont see their balance increase. That hint text could remove many misunderstanding from newbie and noob users.

[phzi]

Glad to see hypernova back on CPPSRB.  I was very disappointed by the change to PPS, and planned to move my (albeit small) hashing power to another pool today.

I suggest: shelved earnings need some way to understand how 'deep' your shelved balance sits.  A chart showing the pool's total shelved earnings and how deep your portions sit in the pool would make the CPPSRB system much easier to understand.  And maybe a few "pool luck required to pay out xx% of your shelved balance" stats - e.g.:

Block probability required to get 10% of shelved balance: 40%
Block probability required to get 25% of shelved balance: 28%
Block probability required to get 50% of shelved balance: 13%
Block probability required to get 75% of shelved balance: 7%
Block probability required to get 90% of shelved balance: <1%
Block probability required to get 100% of shelved balance: >1 block required

These stats would be awesome to have for both per-user and pool-total.  Could graph this as well (correlating luck with what percentage of the shelf will get paid off). 
It might be easier to calculate the reverse, that is:
shelved balance to be paid if next block found at 1% probability: .12LTC
shelved balance to be paid if next block found at 10% probability: .07LTC
shelved balance to be paid if next block found at 20% probability: .05LTC
shelved balance to be paid if next block found at 30% probability: .01LTC
shelved balance to be paid if next block found at 49% probability: .001LTC

For the chart I mentioned, picture a graph with percentage of total shelved earnings from 0% to 100% on the left Y-axis, and block number on the X axis.  Labeled on the right Y axis, have shelved earnings from 0 to <biggest shelved chunk value>, and for each block on the Y axis, show the user amount of earnings required.
Can substitute "block number" with "how many blocks deep in the queue (0-n)", or "percentage deep in the queue (0-100)" depending on how you are internally tracking the CPPSRB shelf payout order.  

CPPSRB causes income to swing greatly with pool luck, so give people as much "luck" information as you can, and it definitely increase the appeal of the system.  You have a good thing already with a seemingly solid hashing base - just add more stats and make everything you can about the payout system transparent.

---

Anyway, thank-you Soak and M0nsieurChat for listening to feedback and acknowledging your mistake in switching to PPS.  You guys rock.

[M0nsieurChat]

I plan to implement more infos on the API side. The people looking at it are smart and will help us out finding the values looking weird. Then why not graphing fancy things / tables on the website (that's Soak's part.)

But there is only ONE need that makes fancy stats like your idea (not exactly yours, I already see a way to do this the easy way) a nightmare for the developper : every miner can choose the difficulty of every of their workers.
A worker difficulty is not locked during the time. It can change from share to share.
So it is not possible to make stats globally on a given bunch of shares of a worker during a specific timeframe. You need to process each share individually before having something that looks good. On MariaDB's table with millions of rows, I'm sure you understand the problem.



Hypernova is currently handling ~3000 queries (including transactions) per second 24h/24 7/7.

So, nothing impossible but we need to do the things the right way !

[M0nsieurChat]

Dear all,

Today we scheduled a maintenance that went bad on Hypernova.
The purpose of this maintenance was to push the new litecoin daemon in its new version 0.8.3.7
As you may be aware, this new branch of litecoin needs to resync the whole blockchain.
During the blockchain syncing, the network difficulty dropped to something like 0.XXXX and the PPS rate skyrocketed.
Those who were mining during that upgrade within that 2 minutes timeframe experienced a WAY too high balance (we're talking about thousands of LTCs)
The auto withdraw threshold feature perfectly worked. Here is how you empty a pool wallet in seconds.

I'm very sorry about your loss. I decide to stop the Hypernova's adventures here.

If the coins (or part of the coins) are returned by those who received the withdraws, I'll be happy to refund those who ask me in PM or at feedback@hypernova.pw (please tag your subject with [refund] as you guess I'll have many mails within the next days)

If you need another pool, I would totally recommend coinhuntr.

[litecoin_messiah]

Dear all,

Today we scheduled a maintenance that went bad on Hypernova.
The purpose of this maintenance was to push the new litecoin daemon in its new version 0.8.3.7
As you may be aware, this new branch of litecoin needs to resync the whole blockchain.
During the blockchain syncing, the network difficulty dropped to something like 0.XXXX and the PPS rate skyrocketed.
Those who were mining during that upgrade within that 2 minutes timeframe experienced a WAY too high balance (we're talking about thousands of LTCs)
The auto withdraw threshold feature perfectly worked. Here is how you empty a pool wallet in seconds.

I'm very sorry about your loss. I decide to stop the Hypernova's adventures here.

If the coins (or part of the coins) are returned by those who received the withdraws, I'll be happy to refund those who ask me in PM or at feedback@hypernova.pw (please tag your subject with [refund] as you guess I'll have many mails within the next days)

If you need another pool, I would totally recommend coinhuntr.

*edited by SaltySpitoon*
Advertising competing pool

[phzi]

WARNING!!! DO NOT MINE HERE!

Hypernova has stolen/wiped all balances.

[msm595]

WARNING!!! DO NOT MINE HERE!

Hypernova has stolen/wiped all balances.  There is no evidence that M0nsieurChat's bullshit excuse is true.

Phzi, I was logged on while it was happening. I witnessed my two accounts' (one company, one personal) balances skyrocketing to 1000s of LTC. If you examine their pool address, you'll see the payouts going to addresses they always have been. There was not some massive cleaning to one address, there was not a cleaning to a bunch of new addresses, it was simply gross overpayment to current miners. There are no grounds for your accusation, nor should you be one to be making accusations at all (given your relative unfamiliarity on these forums). I personally trust M0nsieurChat, and professionally trust him (with my business). Hypernova has paid out fairly over my time with them, in fact, better than certain other pools.

[CoinBuzz]

please list the account address of those people who steal our all money

[phzi]

Phzi, I was logged on while it was happening. I witnessed my two accounts' (one company, one personal) balances skyrocketing to 1000s of LTC. If you examine their pool address, you'll see the payouts going to addresses they always have been. There was not some massive cleaning to one address, there was not a cleaning to a bunch of new addresses, it was simply gross overpayment to current miners. There are no grounds for your accusation, nor should you be one to be making accusations at all (given your relative unfamiliarity on these forums). I personally trust M0nsieurChat, and professionally trust him (with my business). Hypernova has paid out fairly over my time with them, in fact, better than certain other pools.

Just because I am posting from a new account does not make me new here.  There are plenty of grounds for stating that you wiped all balances... because you DID wipe all balances.  I had a balance on the pool, I was not paid, balance is now 0.  That means they stole balances; period.  Doesn't matter if they lost money due to incompetance or stupidity, they still wiped/stole everyone's balances.

Now please explain how more then 49.5LTC per block went to user balances if this is a CPPSRB pool?  Payouts should have been capped at 49.5 LTC per block and everyone's shelved earnings should have skyrocketed.  That's half the point of using a CPPSRB pool vs a PPS pool, is the payment security.  Please explain that...

[msm595]

Just because I am posting from a new account does not make me new here.  There are plenty of grounds for stating that you wiped all balances... because you DID wipe all balances.  I had a balance on the pool, I was not paid, balance is now 0.  That means they stole balances; period.  Doesn't matter if they lost money due to incompetance or stupidity, they still wiped/stole everyone's balances.

Now please explain how more then 49.5LTC per block went to user balances if this is a CPPSRB pool?  Payouts should have been capped at 49.5 LTC per block and everyone's shelved earnings should have skyrocketed.  That's half the point of using a CPPSRB pool vs a PPS pool, is the payment security.  Please explain that...

My point was that this new account has no reputation to go by. Anyway... You had erroneously assumed that hypernova had moved back to CPPSRB when in fact it was only a plan to move back... The pool was/is still PPS. That is why money was lost.

 There is currently discussion of moving lost balance to shelved and trying to pay back users. There is also talk of potentially just shutting down, though people are leaning away from that option.

[phzi]

You had erroneously assumed that hypernova had moved back to CPPSRB when in fact it was only a plan to move back... The pool was/is still PPS. That is why money was lost.

What?

[..] We've heard your feedbacks and did a rollback this morning (11AM GMT+1) to CPPSRB with 1% fee.
We learnt from our mistake and won't change the reward system again as it seems CPPSRB is the only one people like !

Enjoy the most stable pool ever !

Soak and M0nsieurChat

Hypernova was definitely supposed to be on a CPPSRB system when this supposedly happened.  And if it was on PPS, then the pool developers/owners should take personable responsibility for all balances, because that's how PPS works...  Either way, this is a huge error that points to multiple problems in the handling of this pool and its software.

Dear all,
Today we scheduled a maintenance that went bad on Hypernova.
The purpose of this maintenance was to push the new litecoin daemon in its new version 0.8.3.7.
As you may be aware, this new branch of litecoin needs to resync the whole blockchain.
During the blockchain syncing, the network difficulty dropped to something like 0.XXXX and the PPS rate skyrocketed.
Those who were mining during that upgrade within that 2 minutes timeframe experienced a WAY too high balance (we're talking about thousands of LTCs)
The auto withdraw threshold feature perfectly worked. Here is how you empty a pool wallet in seconds.
I'm very sorry about your loss. I decide to stop the Hypernova's adventures here.
If the coins (or part of the coins) are returned by those who received the withdraws, I'll be happy to refund those who ask me in PM or at feedback@hypernova.pw (please tag your subject with [refund] as you guess I'll have many mails within the next days)

If you see that Hypernova sent you too many coins, could you please send them back to LgDKkDSmjCmgEwkNZH5TXSnhd2aKbDFzzr so there will be less people screwed ?
Thanks for mining on our pool and sorry again.. Human mistake.

There are either multiple serious bugs at work here, or this is deception and fraud. Either way, this is very strong evidence that M0nsieurChat and Soak do not have the knowledge required to be running a mining pool.

Funds should be returned to balances, and withdrawals frozen until this is worked out.  If that does not happen very quickly, we all may as well be sending our hashes to notroll.in.

Keep in mind that the funds that went missing could very well be to M0nsieurChat and/or Soak's own accounts.  Sure there were a bunch of transfers across 3 blocks... what's it to the admins to have multiple accounts in preparation for testing, or with a plan to be devious in the future?

M0nsieurChat: Was this a PPS pool or a CPPSRB pool?  If it was a CPPSRB pool, how did balances inflate beyond what could be paid?

[msm595]

What?

[..] We've heard your feedbacks and did a rollback this morning (11AM GMT+1) to CPPSRB with 1% fee.
We learnt from our mistake and won't change the reward system again as it seems CPPSRB is the only one people like !

Enjoy the most stable pool ever !

Soak and M0nsieurChat

I stand corrected. Either way, the error was with the PPS rate and difficulty, the 49.5 LTC is only calculated and paid out of the pools main address, so if the calculation is wrong, I guess more can be withdrawn.

Either way, this is a huge error that points to multiple problems in the handling of this pool and its software.

There are either multiple serious bugs at work here, or this is deception and fraud. Either way, this is very strong evidence that M0nsieurChat and Soak do not have the knowledge required to be running a mining pool.

Funds should be returned to balances, and withdrawals frozen until this is worked out.  If that does not happen very quickly, we all may as well be sending our hashes to notroll.in.

Keep in mind that the funds that went missing could very well be to M0nsieurChat or Soak's own accounts.  Sure there were a bunch of transfers... what's it to the admins to have multiple accounts in preparation for jacking balances?

It was a series of mild bugs and an unexpected repercussion of updating the litecoin client. Much like the airplane that crashed due to a frayed wire, a toilet clog, and unexpected toilet motor behavior, it is a freak event with some mistakes aligning to cause something unprecedented. M0nsieurChat is still much more qualified than many people running pools, a perk of actually being a sysadmin (iirc). Ltc is already being returned from some people. You can choose to believe it's an elaborate scheme by the admins, but it doesn't add up to me and many others.

[galax]

Hey,

did you seen this? I think maybe it's really time to move on guys!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262029.0

[Soak]

M0nsieurChat and me are really sorry for this big mistake. Every miner must received an e-mail with instructions to be refund for the current balances but keep in mind we need honesty of the people mining on the pool to return the money back.

We decided to put all the balances in shelves for later payment if we can. The pool running again as before with CPPSRB and 1% fee.

[phzi]

The pool running again as before with CPPSRB and 1% fee.

Why is the pool not finding blocks?  And our balances got 0'd again? WTF?