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Author Topic: Best EU country to tax profit on crypto currency trading  (Read 7284 times)
vsyc
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May 04, 2017, 06:22:17 PM
 #1

Hi,
Sorry if it another yet topic and I should use search, but I will appreciate any help in this topic.

Lets say I put 10,000EUR EUR on Kraken, buy XBT, and for these XBT buy GNT.
Than I sell GNT for XBT, and XBT for EUR, that in total 50,000EUR.
My profit is 40,000EUR.

So question is, how can I legalise this profit? What is the best EU country to do so (less than 25% tax)? Do I need to have a Bank Account there? If so, can I open it remotely?

Example that I looking for, is:

Lets say Austrian bank can tax you 20% on income, it will open Bank Account for me, where I withdraw my profit, they will charge tax on it and provide certificate that these money clean. I will, go to Estonia, will buy land, Estonian bank will ask me prove of income, I will provide this certificate from Austrian bank, they say 'Good Man' land is yours.

Do I see it right? Or how the process of profit legalisation works? What is the best country for EU man (no matter what country resident EU man is at point of time)?

Thank you.
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Serpens66
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May 04, 2017, 08:07:00 PM
 #2

I also would be interested on different taxes on bitcoin profits.

But the thing you described should be impossible. It does not matter where you withdraw your profits to.
You have to pay taxes in that country, where you lived at the moment you sold your GNT (so made the profit)

Mit Cointracking behältst du die Übersicht über all deine Trades und Gewinne. Sogar ein Tool für die Steuer ist dabei Wink
Testen ist kostenlos und mit dem obigen Link bekommst du 10% Rabatt auf die kostenpflichtigen Pakete. Thread                                        Great Freeware Game: Clonk Rage
Für instant Handel auch am Wochenende bei bitcoin.de sollte man das Fidorkonto verwenden Smiley FAQ Ref-Link: Registrieren
vsyc
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May 04, 2017, 08:12:18 PM
 #3

I also would be interested on different taxes on bitcoin profits.

But the thing you described should be impossible. It does not matter where you withdraw your profits to.
You have to pay taxes in that country, where you lived at the moment you sold your GNT (so made the profit)

Tor or Proxy makes it very difficult to prove, considering that EU has "no borders".

e.g. I can be on fast train From Luxembour, picking up my friend in Cologne, before going to Amsterdam, and sale happened when I just entered 1st meter of Belgium Cheesy "Hypothetically"

I can sell GNT for BTC being in Spain, and week after sell it in Luxembourg for Fiat, how that should work than?
thebatletbet
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May 04, 2017, 09:12:46 PM
 #4

until now crypto curency without tax
because crypto curency still not yet regulated, fee only use sending fee(transfer wire) and fee withdraw from exchanger

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Serpens66
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May 04, 2017, 11:24:31 PM
 #5

Profits from cryptocurrency is taxed nearly in every country.
(it seems "tax" is in english sometimes used as synonym for fee? otherwise I can't explain why so many people claim "there is no tax only fee for withdrawal/trading". This does not make sense, since real tax has nothing to do with any fees)

@vsyc:
It does not depend on where you are, it does depend on where you live (usually this is where you have your home or where you are more then half a year per year). You pay the taxes to that authority were you also pay all other taxes to.

Mit Cointracking behältst du die Übersicht über all deine Trades und Gewinne. Sogar ein Tool für die Steuer ist dabei Wink
Testen ist kostenlos und mit dem obigen Link bekommst du 10% Rabatt auf die kostenpflichtigen Pakete. Thread                                        Great Freeware Game: Clonk Rage
Für instant Handel auch am Wochenende bei bitcoin.de sollte man das Fidorkonto verwenden Smiley FAQ Ref-Link: Registrieren
vsyc
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May 05, 2017, 12:50:24 AM
 #6

Profits from cryptocurrency is taxed nearly in every country.
(it seems "tax" is in english sometimes used as synonym for fee? otherwise I can't explain why so many people claim "there is no tax only fee for withdrawal/trading". This does not make sense, since real tax has nothing to do with any fees)

@vsyc:
It does not depend on where you are, it does depend on where you live (usually this is where you have your home or where you are more then half a year per year). You pay the taxes to that authority were you also pay all other taxes to.

Got it, so lets say I sold my GNT for BTC, in country that has tax 50% on income, and went to live in country that has tax 20%, after half year I decided to sell my BTC for fiat in latter country?

My point, if I understand this right, that there is no government/institution in the world to control profit when you sell one crypto for another. But there is capital gain tax/income tax when you sell crypto for fiat and do profit from that?

Speaking of half year, in some countries I can stay for half year as a tourist Smiley lets say in US/Canada, how that works in this case?
grenade launcher
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May 05, 2017, 04:41:21 PM
 #7

Profits from cryptocurrency is taxed nearly in every country.
(it seems "tax" is in english sometimes used as synonym for fee? otherwise I can't explain why so many people claim "there is no tax only fee for withdrawal/trading". This does not make sense, since real tax has nothing to do with any fees)

@vsyc:
It does not depend on where you are, it does depend on where you live (usually this is where you have your home or where you are more then half a year per year). You pay the taxes to that authority were you also pay all other taxes to.

Got it, so lets say I sold my GNT for BTC, in country that has tax 50% on income, and went to live in country that has tax 20%, after half year I decided to sell my BTC for fiat in latter country?

My point, if I understand this right, that there is no government/institution in the world to control profit when you sell one crypto for another. But there is capital gain tax/income tax when you sell crypto for fiat and do profit from that?

Speaking of half year, in some countries I can stay for half year as a tourist Smiley lets say in US/Canada, how that works in this case?
It's best to really even really live in countries where Bitcoin can be legally used, because there are opportunities to obtain criminal penalties for illegal financial transactions in some countries.
Serpens66
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May 05, 2017, 07:06:32 PM
 #8

@vsyc:
It might be the best option to ask a tax consultant.
The rule with "half year" has many exceptions, so of course it is not enough to be tourist in a land.

Mit Cointracking behältst du die Übersicht über all deine Trades und Gewinne. Sogar ein Tool für die Steuer ist dabei Wink
Testen ist kostenlos und mit dem obigen Link bekommst du 10% Rabatt auf die kostenpflichtigen Pakete. Thread                                        Great Freeware Game: Clonk Rage
Für instant Handel auch am Wochenende bei bitcoin.de sollte man das Fidorkonto verwenden Smiley FAQ Ref-Link: Registrieren
vsyc
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May 05, 2017, 09:25:33 PM
 #9

@vsyc:
It might be the best option to ask a tax consultant.
The rule with "half year" has many exceptions, so of course it is not enough to be tourist in a land.

Looks like that is the only way....
VC George
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May 10, 2017, 12:34:25 AM
 #10

Why are you limiting yourself on Europe?
There are countless offshore Banks where you can deposit up to 200k without having to care about taxes and such.
The thing is, if you want to use your profits to invest in something else then yeah you really have to get them taxed
so you can justify their existence. If you're looking that way, a "fundraising via bitcoin" would be a nice option if you
know what I mean, from there and on I don't think you're going to get taxed for your active capital.
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May 10, 2017, 04:41:06 AM
 #11

I was doing a similar research an year ago.

Cheapest EU country just for Profit Taxes is Bulgaria. There you are paying just 10% as taxes. But still the money remain company's money. If you want it clean for you, you need to pay 5%-15% dividend taxes. In Bulogaria you need to pay and monthly ~80 social taxes.  It's mandatory.

Another good options are Malta and Croatia. For example in Croatia you could have a company and you are not obligated to pay yourself a salary (taxes respectfully).


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Serpens66
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May 10, 2017, 10:51:44 AM
 #12

I was doing a similar research an year ago.

Cheapest EU country just for Profit Taxes is Bulgaria. There you are paying just 10% as taxes. But still the money remain company's money. If you want it clean for you, you need to pay 5%-15% dividend taxes. In Bulogaria you need to pay and monthly ~80 social taxes.  It's mandatory.

Another good options are Malta and Croatia. For example in Croatia you could have a company and you are not obligated to pay yourself a salary (taxes respectfully).
when talking about bitcoin profit taxes, which is usually paid by private people, not companies, it might be better to look for a country where there is no tax on bitcoin profits at all.

I heard Denmark has no tax on it and Netherlands only 5%.
But I can not confirm this, only rumors.

Mit Cointracking behältst du die Übersicht über all deine Trades und Gewinne. Sogar ein Tool für die Steuer ist dabei Wink
Testen ist kostenlos und mit dem obigen Link bekommst du 10% Rabatt auf die kostenpflichtigen Pakete. Thread                                        Great Freeware Game: Clonk Rage
Für instant Handel auch am Wochenende bei bitcoin.de sollte man das Fidorkonto verwenden Smiley FAQ Ref-Link: Registrieren
missmarvel
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May 10, 2017, 05:35:25 PM
 #13

The Isle of Man has not capital gains tax but its rather cold  Roll Eyes
vsyc
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May 10, 2017, 07:09:58 PM
 #14

Why are you limiting yourself on Europe?
There are countless offshore Banks where you can deposit up to 200k without having to care about taxes and such.
The thing is, if you want to use your profits to invest in something else then yeah you really have to get them taxed
so you can justify their existence. If you're looking that way, a "fundraising via bitcoin" would be a nice option if you
know what I mean, from there and on I don't think you're going to get taxed for your active capital.

Thanks man, this is something that I can think of. It means I can spent on my personal expenses, like travelling, pay rent, buy food etc. Do I understood it right?

The Isle of Man has not capital gains tax but its rather cold  Roll Eyes

I do not want be resident of the country Smiley

I was doing a similar research an year ago.

Cheapest EU country just for Profit Taxes is Bulgaria. There you are paying just 10% as taxes. But still the money remain company's money. If you want it clean for you, you need to pay 5%-15% dividend taxes. In Bulogaria you need to pay and monthly ~80 social taxes.  It's mandatory.

Another good options are Malta and Croatia. For example in Croatia you could have a company and you are not obligated to pay yourself a salary (taxes respectfully).
when talking about bitcoin profit taxes, which is usually paid by private people, not companies, it might be better to look for a country where there is no tax on bitcoin profits at all.

I heard Denmark has no tax on it and Netherlands only 5%.
But I can not confirm this, only rumors.

I am not planning to become a resident just because of bitcoin, I plan to get tax certificate.
vsyc
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May 20, 2017, 05:02:29 PM
 #15

Put it up, just if someone missed and have other ideas.  Roll Eyes
andron8383
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May 20, 2017, 09:52:14 PM
 #16

Hi,
Sorry if it another yet topic and I should use search, but I will appreciate any help in this topic.

Lets say I put 10,000EUR EUR on Kraken, buy XBT, and for these XBT buy GNT.
Than I sell GNT for XBT, and XBT for EUR, that in total 50,000EUR.
My profit is 40,000EUR.

So question is, how can I legalise this profit? What is the best EU country to do so (less than 25% tax)? Do I need to have a Bank Account there? If so, can I open it remotely?

Example that I looking for, is:

Lets say Austrian bank can tax you 20% on income, it will open Bank Account for me, where I withdraw my profit, they will charge tax on it and provide certificate that these money clean. I will, go to Estonia, will buy land, Estonian bank will ask me prove of income, I will provide this certificate from Austrian bank, they say 'Good Man' land is yours.

Do I see it right? Or how the process of profit legalisation works? What is the best country for EU man (no matter what country resident EU man is at point of time)?

Thank you.

Malta probably is best county in crypto tradin and also is named as tax heaven.
In Germany If you will hold BTC over year you can sell them without taxation but today is too late for Germany so you need to move ot other cunrty.
Pick cuntry that have no capital gain tax : ) use wiki.

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Praxis
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May 30, 2017, 10:11:28 AM
 #17

Slovenia has 0% tax on Forex trading, and that covers Bitcoin too.
VC George
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May 30, 2017, 02:59:24 PM
 #18

Why are you limiting yourself on Europe?
There are countless offshore Banks where you can deposit up to 200k without having to care about taxes and such.
The thing is, if you want to use your profits to invest in something else then yeah you really have to get them taxed
so you can justify their existence. If you're looking that way, a "fundraising via bitcoin" would be a nice option if you
know what I mean, from there and on I don't think you're going to get taxed for your active capital.

Thanks man, this is something that I can think of. It means I can spent on my personal expenses, like travelling, pay rent, buy food etc. Do I understood it right?

The Isle of Man has not capital gains tax but its rather cold  Roll Eyes

I do not want be resident of the country Smiley

I was doing a similar research an year ago.

Cheapest EU country just for Profit Taxes is Bulgaria. There you are paying just 10% as taxes. But still the money remain company's money. If you want it clean for you, you need to pay 5%-15% dividend taxes. In Bulogaria you need to pay and monthly ~80 social taxes.  It's mandatory.

Another good options are Malta and Croatia. For example in Croatia you could have a company and you are not obligated to pay yourself a salary (taxes respectfully).
when talking about bitcoin profit taxes, which is usually paid by private people, not companies, it might be better to look for a country where there is no tax on bitcoin profits at all.

I heard Denmark has no tax on it and Netherlands only 5%.
But I can not confirm this, only rumors.

I am not planning to become a resident just because of bitcoin, I plan to get tax certificate.

You just need an old good offshore bank account Smiley
I'm not allowed to say much here but I heard they even sell them
on the darkweb for a fair price. If you just want to spend your cash
without caring if they are going to call with questions then that or a similar
way is what I think you need to look at. Ofc legal is always better
amaral1977
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May 30, 2017, 08:54:54 PM
 #19

In EU there is an agreement between states that says you will be taxed at the country where the profit is made. Just take into account that nonetheless you have to declare your gains again in the country where you have your tax address. What will happen is that in some countries you will be double tax, and then you have to ask for a refund of the task in your own country.

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Serpens66
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June 27, 2017, 07:20:43 PM
 #20

i saw slovenia and dannemark tax free also, some guys live in?
its complicated... (cause every source says something different and tax consultant usually have no clue)
According to the book "bitcoin for dummies" it is like this in slovenia:
"subject to income tax, just like any regular currency in the country"

And about denmark it is like that:
If you have some USD left from your trip to USA and without your intention to make money, you made some profit by selling them back to EUR, then it is taxfree in denmark.
Same is for bitcoin.
But if you trade it with intention to make profits, profits are most likely taxed.

I'm planning to write to denmark tax authorities and get a binding response (which will take up to 2 months) to be 100% sure.

Mit Cointracking behältst du die Übersicht über all deine Trades und Gewinne. Sogar ein Tool für die Steuer ist dabei Wink
Testen ist kostenlos und mit dem obigen Link bekommst du 10% Rabatt auf die kostenpflichtigen Pakete. Thread                                        Great Freeware Game: Clonk Rage
Für instant Handel auch am Wochenende bei bitcoin.de sollte man das Fidorkonto verwenden Smiley FAQ Ref-Link: Registrieren
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