$0.85 transaction fee is absolutely ridiculous!

[scambust]

Eventually, as BTCcore devs hoped, the fees will stabilized as demand slows down.

[MingLee]

well that depends on the service you are using to do the actual transaction you can do it for alot less using some services

If you're putting your transaction through the blockchain then you're going to be paying something close to the same in order to get it confirmed in short order. Some services like Coinbase pay it for you, but that's because they can afford to due to the exchange portion of their website. Beyond that, you're not going to be paying much less, and chances are you'll end up paying more, if you try to pass by the blockchain using other services.

[QuestionAuthority]

Read this thing that the inventor of Bitcoin wrote: https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

And then tell me where it says transactions are supposed to be free or cheap. If it's there, I'm not seeing it.

The problem is: The lower the fees, the higher the adoption rate. The masses wouldn't come if the fees are too high. And even worse: There could be cheaper competitors.

But as I already said above: It's not the miners' fault, it's the users that initiate the spiral that leads to higher fees.

Bitcoin was designed to have high transaction fees. The standard of 50 btc was set as an initial reasonable reward but the reality of financial reward is set by a different standard. Business (just like MasterCard, Visa, and banks transactions) fees will be set by the company based on the financial incentive they require to remain in business. That incentive is mensurate and can be calculated by including all factors relating to maintaining the business plus a reasonable profit margin. Equipment repair, replacement, employee cost, utility costs, land leases, business licenses, etc. are all included in the calculation.

Adoption rate, current number of users, number of transactions per block, btc price, operating cost of competing systems like MasterCard, are all immaterial to the business mining bitcoins. All they know is they need to meet their costs to stay in business. Sure those things will effect the cost of mining (like more people making transactions will mean a smaller fee for everyone) but the company doesn't care. All they care about is making X amount per block or they're not going to stay in business.

If you want to see a crazy high transaction fee just wait until public utility companies realize they can charge more for Bitcoin mining usage rates.

Utilities can and do use following rate structures:

Simple (or Fixed) Rate
Tiered (or Step) Rate
Time of Use (TOU)
Demand Rates
Tiered within Time of Use
Seasonal (4 Seasons)
Weekend / Holidays
Any combination of the above

I can see a day where global electric companies add a new category called: Cryptocurrency Mining Rate.
If they do you will look back at a dollar fee with a gleam in your eye because those were the good old days.

[flower1024]

well that depends on the service you are using to do the actual transaction you can do it for alot less using some services

If you're putting your transaction through the blockchain then you're going to be paying something close to the same in order to get it confirmed in short order. Some services like Coinbase pay it for you, but that's because they can afford to due to the exchange portion of their website. Beyond that, you're not going to be paying much less, and chances are you'll end up paying more, if you try to pass by the blockchain using other services.

That is correct, all transactions should go through the blockchain, and we can't escape paying transaction fees unless as you said can use some online wallets which they will pay the taxes. Apart from coin base, XAPO also pays the transaction fees, and their transactions are quite faster, so I use them for my routine transactions. Since BTC prices are going up and fees are higher for small transactions, so Bitcoins are no more attractive to do smaller transactions.

[Pattberry]

I can see a day where global electric companies add a new category called: Cryptocurrency Mining Rate.
If they do you will look back at a dollar fee with a gleam in your eye because those were the good old days.

With the amount of energy being used to mine all the crypto currencies,electric companies have to start another price category because of the amount of units used to mine these coins,in fact is a total waste of global energy  and if the fees would increase people will always find an alternative to start dealing rather than using bitcoin.

[btcney]

Am I the only one realizing that ~$1 fee to make a transaction is absolutely insane and defeats one of the core benefits of using bitcoin for daily transactions.

This is getting insane and is completely uncalled for, or am I wrong?

Nope, you're not the only one.

That's why I think people have pumped dogecoin, because it is still so cheap to send transactions on and the confirmation times are wayyy better than bitcoin. And ethereum as well, right now it only takes like 0.0004 Ether to send a transaction, compared to 0.0005 BTC, not to mention bitcoin's price is higher than Ethereum's price by a factor of 15x right now.

Right now I've already moved onto dogecoin to fund my dice sites, it's easy and simple. Hopefully bitcoin transaction fees can get down although it seems unlikely considering it has skyrocketed over the past few months.

[The One]

Read this thing that the inventor of Bitcoin wrote: https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

And then tell me where it says transactions are supposed to be free or cheap. If it's there, I'm not seeing it.

The problem is: The lower the fees, the higher the adoption rate. The masses wouldn't come if the fees are too high. And even worse: There could be cheaper competitors.

But as I already said above: It's not the miners' fault, it's the users that initiate the spiral that leads to higher fees.

Bitcoin was designed to have high transaction fees. The standard of 50 btc was set as an initial reasonable reward but the reality of financial reward is set by a different standard. Business (just like MasterCard, Visa, and banks transactions) fees will be set by the company based on the financial incentive they require to remain in business. That incentive is mensurate and can be calculated by including all factors relating to maintaining the business plus a reasonable profit margin. Equipment repair, replacement, employee cost, utility costs, land leases, business licenses, etc. are all included in the calculation.

Adoption rate, current number of users, number of transactions per block, btc price, operating cost of competing systems like MasterCard, are all immaterial to the business mining bitcoins. All they know is they need to meet their costs to stay in business. Sure those things will effect the cost of mining (like more people making transactions will mean a smaller fee for everyone) but the company doesn't care. All they care about is making X amount per block or they're not going to stay in business.

If you want to see a crazy high transaction fee just wait until public utility companies realize they can charge more for Bitcoin mining usage rates.

Utilities can and do use following rate structures:

Simple (or Fixed) Rate
Tiered (or Step) Rate
Time of Use (TOU)
Demand Rates
Tiered within Time of Use
Seasonal (4 Seasons)
Weekend / Holidays
Any combination of the above

I can see a day where global electric companies add a new category called: Cryptocurrency Mining Rate.
If they do you will look back at a dollar fee with a gleam in your eye because those were the good old days.

Don't be stupid.

[Dabs]

I think of bitcoin as a bank draft, or money order, or cashier's check. Guaranteed funds that you can see go into your account within seconds, feel good about in a few minutes, and clears in about an hour or less (provided you or they paid the fee.)

If the tx was to you and you need to spend it, then there is CPFP.

If the tx was sent by you, and you need it to confirm, then RBF.

You don't pay your latte by money order. But bitcoin can still be used for daily transactions. Anything you buy from a retail or online store still has to be processed and shipped to you.

[ruletheworld]

Am I the only one realizing that ~$1 fee to make a transaction is absolutely insane and defeats one of the core benefits of using bitcoin for daily transactions.

This is getting insane and is completely uncalled for, or am I wrong?

Nope, you're not the only one.

That's why I think people have pumped dogecoin, because it is still so cheap to send transactions on and the confirmation times are wayyy better than bitcoin. And ethereum as well, right now it only takes like 0.0004 Ether to send a transaction, compared to 0.0005 BTC, not to mention bitcoin's price is higher than Ethereum's price by a factor of 15x right now.

Right now I've already moved onto dogecoin to fund my dice sites, it's easy and simple. Hopefully bitcoin transaction fees can get down although it seems unlikely considering it has skyrocketed over the past few months.

All these other cryptos will also run into scalability problems. Dogecoin transactions are cheap today because no one really uses those. If it's heavily used, it will run into same problems that Bitcoin does. We will need to find a good solution implemented on Bitcoin and then other cryptos.

[Anon TumbleBit]

Yes, too high, the market tends to use large transaction, small transactions should be avoid.

[QuestionAuthority]

Read this thing that the inventor of Bitcoin wrote: https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

And then tell me where it says transactions are supposed to be free or cheap. If it's there, I'm not seeing it.

The problem is: The lower the fees, the higher the adoption rate. The masses wouldn't come if the fees are too high. And even worse: There could be cheaper competitors.

But as I already said above: It's not the miners' fault, it's the users that initiate the spiral that leads to higher fees.

Bitcoin was designed to have high transaction fees. The standard of 50 btc was set as an initial reasonable reward but the reality of financial reward is set by a different standard. Business (just like MasterCard, Visa, and banks transactions) fees will be set by the company based on the financial incentive they require to remain in business. That incentive is mensurate and can be calculated by including all factors relating to maintaining the business plus a reasonable profit margin. Equipment repair, replacement, employee cost, utility costs, land leases, business licenses, etc. are all included in the calculation.

Adoption rate, current number of users, number of transactions per block, btc price, operating cost of competing systems like MasterCard, are all immaterial to the business mining bitcoins. All they know is they need to meet their costs to stay in business. Sure those things will effect the cost of mining (like more people making transactions will mean a smaller fee for everyone) but the company doesn't care. All they care about is making X amount per block or they're not going to stay in business.

If you want to see a crazy high transaction fee just wait until public utility companies realize they can charge more for Bitcoin mining usage rates.

Utilities can and do use following rate structures:

Simple (or Fixed) Rate
Tiered (or Step) Rate
Time of Use (TOU)
Demand Rates
Tiered within Time of Use
Seasonal (4 Seasons)
Weekend / Holidays
Any combination of the above

I can see a day where global electric companies add a new category called: Cryptocurrency Mining Rate.
If they do you will look back at a dollar fee with a gleam in your eye because those were the good old days.

Don't be stupid.

Why, you're the idiot that doesn't know how mining works.

[arklan]

aaand there goes the last bit of civility in this thread.

[Qunenin]

Am I the only one realizing that ~$1 fee to make a transaction is absolutely insane and defeats one of the core benefits of using bitcoin for daily transactions.

This is getting insane and is completely uncalled for, or am I wrong?

I guess yes, if you just make a small amount to transfer I guess that is bad news, making this fee every transactions you made is so badly insane, what if you just going to send just $1 for the task you ask for then it is like paying him a couple of it.

[lottery248]

some of the group wants to congest the blockchain unconfirmed transactions, because the limited transaction volume for confirmed, them and miners take the advantage. in order to get your transaction confirmed faster, you need to pay more fee in it.

[Wayan_Pedjeng]

some of the group wants to congest the blockchain unconfirmed transactions, because the limited transaction volume for confirmed, them and miners take the advantage. in order to get your transaction confirmed faster, you need to pay more fee in it.

Is this the only reason why they want to congest the system? There may be more to it than meets the eye. What if some of these people have made their investment in alts? If Bitcoin goes down as a result of technical issues, then the alts can benefit out of it.

[lottery248]

some of the group wants to congest the blockchain unconfirmed transactions, because the limited transaction volume for confirmed, them and miners take the advantage. in order to get your transaction confirmed faster, you need to pay more fee in it.

Is this the only reason why they want to congest the system? There may be more to it than meets the eye. What if some of these people have made their investment in alts? If Bitcoin goes down as a result of technical issues, then the alts can benefit out of it.

they wanna benefit some specific altcoins, such as doge, lite with less transaction volume. bitcoin is too major and the core still standing up.

[DoublerHunter]

Am I the only one realizing that ~$1 fee to make a transaction is absolutely insane and defeats one of the core benefits of using bitcoin for daily transactions.

This is getting insane and is completely uncalled for, or am I wrong?

I guess yes, if you just make a small amount to transfer I guess that is bad news, making this fee every transactions you made is so badly insane, what if you just going to send just $1 for the task you ask for then it is like paying him a couple of it.

So it is better to just do transactions when it is really needed because those small transactions can be a hassle for people because that $1 payment will cost an average transaction fee that is too annoying to see. So if you are asking for a task then you should send the payments in just one transaction and not that small amount of money.

[erpbridge]

I posted this just 2-3 days back. If the price goes to 5000$ then the transaction fees will actually be close to 2 dollars. No one will then use bitcoin for sending anything less than 20-30$ as they will eventually be paying fees as much or more than paypal and other systems.

[carlfebz2]

No your right but for some reason I feel this post will be entombed in posterity for and looked on as the before times someday.
In other words either this fee will be seen as really cheap someday in the future presuming we can't consensus or someone will smile and remember the olden days when fees were this high for a bit ^^.
The joke is now were looking like banking ... limited amount of txns ...

That's exactly right, in many instances it's actually more expensive than using the bank.

In Coinbase, I went to send myself .01 BTC and the fee was 0.000542 BTC which is currently $0.86

Seconded, Ive been using coinbase for a year as far as I remember since I do really love to make transfers without any fees but now they are imposing fees which I do really understand but considering on the amount of fee I really see it that its already high.It might be $0.86 small for some but for me I consider it big but I don't have no choice but to pay-up in able to transfer funds.

[wxa7115]

I paid a $2-$3 fee for a transaction as low as $10. It was because I had received transactions of a value lower than $2 and hence the transaction size was huge. Paying a fixed fee of 0.0001 BTC doesn't work now and with the rising price, I wouldn't be surprised if I would need to pay $10 in the coming days. I simply would use xapo or wait for 1-2 days for each transaction.

I still prefer BTC to PayPal or Payza as the fixed fee gets ridiculous for smaller transactions. In BTC, it's the TX size that matters.

This is right, I had something similar happen to me the other day with the difference the recommended fee was something like ten dollars, I was able to move it for an amount way lower than that but the surprise of seeing a fee so high makes me think we need segwit activated as soon as possible.