Do you support the legalization of amber mining in ukraine?

[Masha Sha]

I do! At first it may seems brutal for the forest, however it's 100% clean harvesting. They just pump water in the ground (having cut the trees before), the amber floats up, and it's done. The trees grows back. The end.

Proof :



Btw in the land of chernobyl...

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[Barrymore]

You cannot mine resources such barbaric methods. The price of amber is extracted in Ukraine is very low because illegal miners don't spend the money to restore destroyed forests. I think that the case for legalizing this business will lose their attractiveness.

[Masha Sha]

You cannot mine resources such barbaric methods. The price of amber is extracted in Ukraine is very low because illegal miners don't spend the money to restore destroyed forests. I think that the case for legalizing this business will lose their attractiveness.

5k$/kg not that bad. I don't see what's "barbaric" there. Very ecological in my view. And no need to restore, the trees do it by themselves!!!

The advantage of legalization is that it bring state security (no more gangs to pay for "protection" even if the mining is poor.

Anyway if you have more lucrative sources of income for the locals, they seem more than willing to work...

[SmirnoffVany]

You cannot mine resources such barbaric methods. The price of amber is extracted in Ukraine is very low because illegal miners don't spend the money to restore destroyed forests. I think that the case for legalizing this business will lose their attractiveness.

Yes, the legalization of this business will not be so demanded as it is now. The destruction of nature is not worth the pleasure.

[Barrymore]

You cannot mine resources such barbaric methods. The price of amber is extracted in Ukraine is very low because illegal miners don't spend the money to restore destroyed forests. I think that the case for legalizing this business will lose their attractiveness.

5k$/kg not that bad. I don't see what's "barbaric" there. Very ecological in my view. And no need to restore, the trees do it by themselves!!!

The advantage of legalization is that it bring state security (no more gangs to pay for "protection" even if the mining is poor.

Anyway if you have more lucrative sources of income for the locals, they seem more than willing to work...

You don't understand the problem. The forest itself is not restored. First washed off the top layer of fertile soil. There is only the clay in which the forest grows. Second to seat the forest you need to plant seedlings and not seeds. When amber over These villages will die out and there will be a desert.

[Faiyz]

I would if they well create or plant trees on those places. And as long the whole country is utilizing it not just one man or one entity. It's sad if it would be legalized but it does not help the country itself economically.

[SmirnoffVany]

You cannot mine resources such barbaric methods. The price of amber is extracted in Ukraine is very low because illegal miners don't spend the money to restore destroyed forests. I think that the case for legalizing this business will lose their attractiveness.

5k$/kg not that bad. I don't see what's "barbaric" there. Very ecological in my view. And no need to restore, the trees do it by themselves!!!

The advantage of legalization is that it bring state security (no more gangs to pay for "protection" even if the mining is poor.

Anyway if you have more lucrative sources of income for the locals, they seem more than willing to work...

You don't understand the problem. The forest itself is not restored. First washed off the top layer of fertile soil. There is only the clay in which the forest grows. Second to seat the forest you need to plant seedlings and not seeds. When amber over These villages will die out and there will be a desert.

Yes, so they want to destroy the country by turning some of it into a desert. I do not like amber and such a barbarous way of prey.

[Masha Sha]

You cannot mine resources such barbaric methods. The price of amber is extracted in Ukraine is very low because illegal miners don't spend the money to restore destroyed forests. I think that the case for legalizing this business will lose their attractiveness.

5k$/kg not that bad. I don't see what's "barbaric" there. Very ecological in my view. And no need to restore, the trees do it by themselves!!!

The advantage of legalization is that it bring state security (no more gangs to pay for "protection" even if the mining is poor.

Anyway if you have more lucrative sources of income for the locals, they seem more than willing to work...

You don't understand the problem. The forest itself is not restored. First washed off the top layer of fertile soil. There is only the clay in which the forest grows. Second to seat the forest you need to plant seedlings and not seeds. When amber over These villages will die out and there will be a desert.

Wrong there are no monsoon in ukraine, the top soil is just moved around with water... look at the second picture. Those trees are true fighters (continental climate - hot then cold). How did those trees arrived in the first place?

[Sithara007]

Either the government should set up firms to mine amber, or it should allow the miners to mine the resource without harming the environment. But they are not doing either of these measures. There is no enforcement of any kind.

[Forester618]

Either the government should set up firms to mine amber, or it should allow the miners to mine the resource without harming the environment. But they are not doing either of these measures. There is no enforcement of any kind.

Amber brings a very big money to corrupt politicians. There is a public firm that needs to produce amber, but she is in year produces less than underground miners mined a day. These corrupt is not profitable to legalize production.

[Mometaskers]

Much as I prefer people find alternative that does not require destroying the landscape, I would prefer for operations to be legalized and regulated than let free miners just go in and wreck the place without being held accountable. I hope if they ever legalize it, they'd place a high standard on miners and make sure they only mine at pre-agreed locations and that they actually cover the land back and reforest it.

At least with this setup, you know who the miners are and can sue them for breaking the agreement as well as for any damage they might have made.

[daiyuba1971]

Either the government should set up firms to mine amber, or it should allow the miners to mine the resource without harming the environment. But they are not doing either of these measures. There is no enforcement of any kind.

Amber brings a very big money to corrupt politicians. There is a public firm that needs to produce amber, but she is in year produces less than underground miners mined a day. These corrupt is not profitable to legalize production.

Yes, legalization of amber mining does not make sense. It will be too expensive and unprofitable.

[LTU_btc]

So, these mining farms works illegally without any control? I think Ukraine have to legalize amber mining, but also they have to control these miners to avoid damage for nature. And if this amber is from Chernobyl region, is it safe and not radioactive?
And I'm not sure that there are big demand of amber in region. Russia mines lot of amber in Kaliningrad and export it to other countries, so there may be not many buyers of ukrainian amber.

[Sithara007]

Either the government should set up firms to mine amber, or it should allow the miners to mine the resource without harming the environment. But they are not doing either of these measures. There is no enforcement of any kind.

Amber brings a very big money to corrupt politicians. There is a public firm that needs to produce amber, but she is in year produces less than underground miners mined a day. These corrupt is not profitable to legalize production.

Yes, legalization of amber mining does not make sense. It will be too expensive and unprofitable.

No. It makes sense. Amber is a national resource of Ukraine, and each and every Ukrainian must benefit out of it. Not just a few powerful politicians and their cronies. The government must conduct auctions on amber mining sites and they should lease out the rights to private corporations. 

[mainpmf]

5k$/kg not that bad. I don't see what's "barbaric" there. Very ecological in my view. And no need to restore, the trees do it by themselves!!!

The advantage of legalization is that it bring state security (no more gangs to pay for "protection" even if the mining is poor.

Anyway if you have more lucrative sources of income for the locals, they seem more than willing to work...

I think we have narrowed down 80% of world problems in this sentence xD

Yeah sure, cutting down a whole forest is ecological, and don't worry they just grow back by themselves. You got nothing to do it's just natural...

The ecosystem? The what? What's that shit? Bah don't worry it's easy the trees will grow back.

[mainpmf]

No. It makes sense. Amber is a national resource of Ukraine, and each and every Ukrainian must benefit out of it. Not just a few powerful politicians and their cronies. The government must conduct auctions on amber mining sites and they should lease out the rights to private corporations. 

Because obviously the private corporations are the best at splitting wealth and redistributing it...

[Sithara007]

No. It makes sense. Amber is a national resource of Ukraine, and each and every Ukrainian must benefit out of it. Not just a few powerful politicians and their cronies. The government must conduct auctions on amber mining sites and they should lease out the rights to private corporations. 

Because obviously the private corporations are the best at splitting wealth and redistributing it...

If they impose a 60% or 70% levy on the revenue from amber mining by these corporations, then the poor people of Ukraine are going to benefit out of it. Else, only a handful of the politicians and the goons are going to benefit.

[mainpmf]

No. It makes sense. Amber is a national resource of Ukraine, and each and every Ukrainian must benefit out of it. Not just a few powerful politicians and their cronies. The government must conduct auctions on amber mining sites and they should lease out the rights to private corporations. 

Because obviously the private corporations are the best at splitting wealth and redistributing it...

If they impose a 60% or 70% levy on the revenue from amber mining by these corporations, then the poor people of Ukraine are going to benefit out of it. Else, only a handful of the politicians and the goons are going to benefit.

I don't really get it...
If the government takes control of it it's bad because politicians will be corrupted...
But if there is a 70% tax on amber mining profits... Then it's ok?
That doesn't really make sense...

[Masha Sha]

No. It makes sense. Amber is a national resource of Ukraine, and each and every Ukrainian must benefit out of it. Not just a few powerful politicians and their cronies. The government must conduct auctions on amber mining sites and they should lease out the rights to private corporations.  

Because obviously the private corporations are the best at splitting wealth and redistributing it...

If they impose a 60% or 70% levy on the revenue from amber mining by these corporations, then the poor people of Ukraine are going to benefit out of it. Else, only a handful of the politicians and the goons are going to benefit.

I don't really get it...
If the government takes control of it it's bad because politicians will be corrupted...
But if there is a 70% tax on amber mining profits... Then it's ok?
That doesn't really make sense...

This is the best argument against legalization... as the ukrainian gov is too corrupt, they will ruin this business for the locals and only exploit it for their own interests. Or maybe the locals are now strong enough to fight the gov cronies.

The problem is that the syndicates that let the miners remove the trees before they grow back () ask for the "fees" what ever the "harvesting" results are. Taxes are paid on income... but land lease have the same problems as the "syndicate" fees.

No. It makes sense. Amber is a national resource of Ukraine, and each and every Ukrainian must benefit out of it. Not just a few powerful politicians and their cronies. The government must conduct auctions on amber mining sites and they should lease out the rights to private corporations.  

Because obviously the private corporations are the best at splitting wealth and redistributing it...

Effectively! It's called shares. You can get some by your work or by paying them and you get access to earnings if they are some. I know it's a foreign concept for the believers in work for a salary...

5k$/kg not that bad. I don't see what's "barbaric" there. Very ecological in my view. And no need to restore, the trees do it by themselves!!!

The advantage of legalization is that it bring state security (no more gangs to pay for "protection" even if the mining is poor.

Anyway if you have more lucrative sources of income for the locals, they seem more than willing to work...

I think we have narrowed down 80% of world problems in this sentence xD

Yeah sure, cutting down a whole forest is ecological, and don't worry they just grow back by themselves. You got nothing to do it's just natural...

The ecosystem? The what? What's that shit? Bah don't worry it's easy the trees will grow back.

I shit your not! It's true. Forest grow back by themselves... it's the purpose of plants to seek for ground to fight for light. They are even plants growing outside on the international space station.

It's approximatively the same effect as a forest fire... only there more woods and plants are mixed with the soil during the amber extraction process.

And to the other poster i don't think amber has been irradiated from chernobyl has it's a fossil.

But then again it's fun to read a lack of understanding toward the dynamic nature of ecosystems. It's not a problem to harvest as long as it's possible for the harvested plants or animals to grow back. Which preserving the biological diversity and for animals social and cultural way of life.

Here in the case of trees, they are billions of those. It's a continentally (eurasia) endemic forests...

And again, compare it to say toxic waste disposal in forest... there it can kill life for a long time... in amber mining there is 0 source of pollution! Cut the trees (maybe sold the wood), dig, mix with water, and the amber float... the end. Ready for regrowth!  

[mainpmf]

No. It makes sense. Amber is a national resource of Ukraine, and each and every Ukrainian must benefit out of it. Not just a few powerful politicians and their cronies. The government must conduct auctions on amber mining sites and they should lease out the rights to private corporations.  

Because obviously the private corporations are the best at splitting wealth and redistributing it...

Effectively! It's called shares. You can get some by your work or by paying them and you get access to earnings if they are some. I know it's a foreign concept for the believers in work for a salary...

If that was efficient the modern capitalistic world would be the fairest of all and USA would have no poor people...

I shit your not! It's true. Forest grow back by themselves... it's the purpose of plants to seek for ground to fight for light. They are even plants growing outside on the international space station.

It's approximatively the same effect as a forest fire... only there more woods and plants are mixed with the soil during the amber extraction process.

And to the other poster i don't think amber has been irradiated from chernobyl has it's a fossil.

But then again it's fun to read a lack of understanding toward the dynamic nature of ecosystems. It's not a problem to harvest as long as it's possible for the harvested plants or animals to grow back. Which preserving the biological diversity and for animals social and cultural way of life.

Here in the case of trees, they are billions of those. It's a continentally (eurasia) endemic forests...

And again, compare it to say toxic waste disposal in forest... there it can kill life for a long time... in amber mining there is 0 source of pollution! Cut the trees (maybe sold the wood), dig, mix with water, and the amber float... the end. Ready for regrowth!  

AAAAAAAAAAH! So you mean it's LESS polluting than lots of other activities. That's probably true but that doesn't mean it's not

Of course trees grow back, but you're saying that it will happen all natturally and without any effort from men. That's not totally true. Everytime you destroy a forest for example, it might regrow back, but there is a good chance that it will not. Ecosystem are incredibly complex and should be taken care of, if you come here and destroy half a forest it can regrow back but it could also destroy the equilibrium and lead to the disparition of the forest.

I agree that this activity isn't the worst, but we should still be very cautious. Cut down the trees, sell the wood, take the amber AND THEN PLANT TREES BACK! And check that everything is going smoothly, integrate some species back, control their developments etc...

When mankind destroys a whole part of Nature, sometimes it comes back easily and sometimes... Well sometimes Nature wouldn't refuse a little help