That Great Big Beautiful Wall

[Lancusters]

It seems to me that the wall between America and Mexico will never be. Besides, if you can not go by land, migrants will be on the water. Or Trump will build a wall along the coast of the ocean. Trump is a stupid man, therefore, offering such a stupid decision problems.

[1714131786]

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[Sithara007]

I think that wall is just a warning for the ilegal inmigrant inside US, its just a expression to caused fear and sop the huge amount of ilegal mexicans into the border.

The flow of illegal Mexicans must be stopped. They are not paying the taxes, and they are exploiting the welfare system by claiming child benefits for their dozens of children. Cheap labor is good, as long as they are legal.

[Spendulus]

It seems to me that the wall between America and Mexico will never be. Besides, if you can not go by land, migrants will be on the water. Or Trump will build a wall along the coast of the ocean. Trump is a stupid man, therefore, offering such a stupid decision problems.

....meanwhile, a lot of people in Europe wish they had a wall....

[Winchester2211]

I think that wall is just a warning for the ilegal inmigrant inside US, its just a expression to caused fear and sop the huge amount of ilegal mexicans into the border.

The flow of illegal Mexicans must be stopped. They are not paying the taxes, and they are exploiting the welfare system by claiming child benefits for their dozens of children. Cheap labor is good, as long as they are legal.

It is a problem of the government. Children's allowance is not paid to the illegals is not an argument. Furthermore, let's understand why they are working illegally. In my country the third part of the salary should pay in tax. Who wants to honestly pay? You need not to deal with the phenomenon, and to make sure that everything was favorable.

[solitare]

To the OP, you're talking like a wall doesn't already exist. A wall along the Mexico border already exists for hundreds of miles. Trumps proposal tries to complete the wall that Bush jr. started. And controversy from the public comes from how Trump communicated his proposal and "the why" he used to claim that Mexicans are providing negative impact on society.

I think this is a colossal waste of money. I'm not for illegal immigration but it's clear that illegal immigrants aren't stealing the jobs that voters are concerned about. They're filling the jobs that people don't want to do. I wonder how many former factory workers that voted for Trump will be willing to wash dishes and clean hotel rooms if/when illegal immigrants are forced out?

The wall won't prevent terrorism either.

You mean that bricklayers, concrete crews, stone masons, sheetrock crews, painters, lawn maintenance....Americans don't want that work?  They wanted it until illegal Mexicans that did not pay taxes pulled these entire trades and a hundred others out of reach of the honest American.

Please stop with the broad generalizations. They don't further understanding of an issue.

The illegal criminal aliens have not only taken over industries with very good jobs, because their criminal employers found it was cheaper to give them low wages and no benefits, then the government intentionally didn't enforce our immigration laws for a couple of decades.

They have also been bringing in a lot of drug resident diseases that we didn't have here.
Killing citizens with their diseases.
Would you like drug resistant TB with your fries or your produce?

Thats not even including all of the hardened criminals and yes terrorist that are coming in over our southern border, from all over the world.

The wall will be built, our border patrol will finally be allowed to do their jobs, and all of these illegal criminals need to be deported.

I don't care where you are from, if you snuck in, or overstayed a visa.
It's time for you to take your ass home where you belong.


The politicians on capital hill have been for amnesty for a long time, so yes it will be a fight.
We will replace all of them also if we need to.

A wall, just like a door is just part of our border security.

Someone can break into your home also, that doesn't mean you don't close and lock the door as a deterrent and to give you time to grab your gun.
Or call the police if you want to be a victim.


It's all a process.

[crypto.classroom]

To the OP, you're talking like a wall doesn't already exist. A wall along the Mexico border already exists for hundreds of miles. Trumps proposal tries to complete the wall that Bush jr. started. And controversy from the public comes from how Trump communicated his proposal and "the why" he used to claim that Mexicans are providing negative impact on society.

I think this is a colossal waste of money. I'm not for illegal immigration but it's clear that illegal immigrants aren't stealing the jobs that voters are concerned about. They're filling the jobs that people don't want to do. I wonder how many former factory workers that voted for Trump will be willing to wash dishes and clean hotel rooms if/when illegal immigrants are forced out?

The wall won't prevent terrorism either.

You mean that bricklayers, concrete crews, stone masons, sheetrock crews, painters, lawn maintenance....Americans don't want that work?  They wanted it until illegal Mexicans that did not pay taxes pulled these entire trades and a hundred others out of reach of the honest American.

Please stop with the broad generalizations. They don't further understanding of an issue.

The illegal criminal aliens have not only taken over industries with very good jobs, because their criminal employers found it was cheaper to give them low wages and no benefits, then the government intentionally didn't enforce our immigration laws for a couple of decades.

They have also been bringing in a lot of drug resident diseases that we didn't have here.
Killing citizens with their diseases.
Would you like drug resistant TB with your fries or your produce?

Thats not even including all of the hardened criminals and yes terrorist that are coming in over our southern border, from all over the world.

The wall will be built, our border patrol will finally be allowed to do their jobs, and all of these illegal criminals need to be deported.

I don't care where you are from, if you snuck in, or overstayed a visa.
It's time for you to take your ass home where you belong.


The politicians on capital hill have been for amnesty for a long time, so yes it will be a fight.
We will replace all of them also if we need to.

A wall, just like a door is just part of our border security.

Someone can break into your home also, that doesn't mean you don't close and lock the door as a deterrent and to give you time to grab your gun.
Or call the police if you want to be a victim.


It's all a process.

It is the criminal governments of the U.S. owned by the corporations that have promoted the presence of not only illegal but legal immigrants as well.  All for their own profit and at the expense of it`s citizens.

[merchantofzeny]

It seems to me that the wall between America and Mexico will never be. Besides, if you can not go by land, migrants will be on the water. Or Trump will build a wall along the coast of the ocean. Trump is a stupid man, therefore, offering such a stupid decision problems.

....meanwhile, a lot of people in Europe wish they had a wall....

I read Huntington's Clash of Civilizations years ago. He remarked that America is lucky that 2 of it's largest immigrant groups are easy to assimilate - Mexicans (Catholic, Spanish-speaking) and Filipinos (Catholic, English-speaking). East Asians tend to value their own distinctive culture but they're not very religious anyway (and also tend to be model citizens).

Europe really had it bad with the immigrants they got which comes from a totally different culture and practicing a religion that is pretty much antagonistic to Europe's native faith. I would somehow like to blame humanism but then again it has brought us some progress. I'll chuck up their inability to recognize the threat to their history - save for Iberia, they never experienced Muslim occupation.

No wonder the first ones to put up fences are East Europeans. They've seen the Ottomans. Once bitten, twice shy.

[Spendulus]

.....


It is the criminal governments of the U.S. owned by the corporations that have promoted the presence of not only illegal but legal immigrants as well.  All for their own profit and at the expense of it`s citizens.

Well, ya. 

But not just the USA. Looks like the same underlying dynamic is at work in Europe.

Look in the direction of George Soros.

[Maximilian_333]

.....


It is the criminal governments of the U.S. owned by the corporations that have promoted the presence of not only illegal but legal immigrants as well.  All for their own profit and at the expense of it`s citizens.

Well, ya. 

But not just the USA. Looks like the same underlying dynamic is at work in Europe.

Look in the direction of George Soros.

Very easy to blame it all on Soros. I understand when he has a financial interest, and what have the migrants? It seems to me that you are a victim of propaganda. Soros is no angel but not a demon to blame it all on him.

[Spendulus]

.....


It is the criminal governments of the U.S. owned by the corporations that have promoted the presence of not only illegal but legal immigrants as well.  All for their own profit and at the expense of it`s citizens.

Well, ya. 

But not just the USA. Looks like the same underlying dynamic is at work in Europe.

Look in the direction of George Soros.

Very easy to blame it all on Soros. I understand when he has a financial interest, and what have the migrants? It seems to me that you are a victim of propaganda. Soros is no angel but not a demon to blame it all on him.

"Look in the direction" ... I didn't mean "blame it all on..."

Soros is the major proponent of Open Borders, funding many such efforts, above and below the table.

[wolfracer]

well i think we have to wait till they buy enterely that wall, they cant closed a border in that way

[fryger]

I can still imagine there might be some sort of wall or other wall-like border obstacle built on the US-Mexico border. What I can't imagine is Mexico paying for it like Trump wanted. No way in hell can Mexico afford such a project and not go bankrupt. Not to mention they have absolutely no interest in it.

[Spendulus]

I can still imagine there might be some sort of wall or other wall-like border obstacle built on the US-Mexico border. What I can't imagine is Mexico paying for it like Trump wanted. No way in hell can Mexico afford such a project and not go bankrupt. Not to mention they have absolutely no interest in it.

Wait and see on that. You can bet that he will fill his promise that Mex will pay for it.

The fact that it seems totally illogical and impossible is part of why he'll be impelled to make it happen.

[Sithara007]

I think that wall is just a warning for the ilegal inmigrant inside US, its just a expression to caused fear and sop the huge amount of ilegal mexicans into the border.

The flow of illegal Mexicans must be stopped. They are not paying the taxes, and they are exploiting the welfare system by claiming child benefits for their dozens of children. Cheap labor is good, as long as they are legal.

It is a problem of the government. Children's allowance is not paid to the illegals is not an argument. Furthermore, let's understand why they are working illegally. In my country the third part of the salary should pay in tax. Who wants to honestly pay? You need not to deal with the phenomenon, and to make sure that everything was favorable.

Even if the federal government want to put an end to this practice, the deep-blue states such as New York and California, where most of these illegals are residing, will oppose. California is perhaps the most pro-illegal immigrant state.

[GreenBits]

I can still imagine there might be some sort of wall or other wall-like border obstacle built on the US-Mexico border. What I can't imagine is Mexico paying for it like Trump wanted. No way in hell can Mexico afford such a project and not go bankrupt. Not to mention they have absolutely no interest in it.

Wait and see on that. You can bet that he will fill his promise that Mex will pay for it.

The fact that it seems totally illogical and impossible is part of why he'll be impelled to make it happen.

Save kidnapping the Mexican president and holding him at gunpoint, how do you force a sovereign nation to pay you money they don't want to? In fact, don't tell me, tell Greece and Venezuela's creditors

Any tax levied against Mexico on consumer goods, ultimately hurts the American citizens that purchase said goods, because like any sane person, they will pass the difference along to us.

The fact that it's totally illogical and impossible make me fuckin nervous, to be honest. I can promise you Trump won't be there next term, any costly, unfinished wall is going to be a taxpayer issue, as we will be paying for the wall. You and me, Spend. If they build it, we will pay.

I'd rather donate to the forum

[GreenBits]

I think that wall is just a warning for the ilegal inmigrant inside US, its just a expression to caused fear and sop the huge amount of ilegal mexicans into the border.

The flow of illegal Mexicans must be stopped. They are not paying the taxes, and they are exploiting the welfare system by claiming child benefits for their dozens of children. Cheap labor is good, as long as they are legal.

How do you get welfare benefits, or any social welfare, without a valid and unique SSN? Employers can collect taxes from them, and they can pay into social security because the government rarely questions when you give it money. E-verify isn't that sophisticated apparently (which is a while different issue). But even with perfectly good faked papers (a perfect copy of a legitimate persons identity), how do you claim benefits when you have to apply, in person, with a case worker? You would need to supply pay stubs, all types of shit, too much info for a non person to generate. If they can, they probably have enough resources not to want to go on record as being in the country, given that they are here illegally. Kinda like signing up for DirectTv as a fugitive.

And did you know that White America makes up the majority of social welfare recipients? It's kinda duh, given the overwhelming majority of America is white, but it's a talking point that may have gotten lost on Breitbart.  Because we all know colored people use all the food stamps, and do all the crime.

I finally get it! Does Make America Great Again actually mean " Please get these fuckin darkies out?"

[Spendulus]

....how do you force a sovereign nation to pay you money they don't want to? In fact, don't tell me, tell Greece and Venezuela's creditors

Any tax levied against Mexico on consumer goods, ultimately hurts the American citizens that purchase said goods, because like any sane person, they will pass the difference along to us.
....

The specific proposal IIRC was to tax remittances, money sent by Mexicans here back to their families. The major revenue source for Mexico.

....
How do you get welfare benefits, or any social welfare, without a valid and unique SSN? Employers can collect taxes from them, and they can pay into social security because the government rarely questions when you give it money. E-verify isn't that sophisticated apparently (which is a while different issue). But even with perfectly good faked papers (a perfect copy of a legitimate persons identity), how do you claim benefits when you have to apply, in person, with a case worker? You would need to supply pay stubs, all types of shit, too much info for a non person to generate......

They do this all the time.

[GreenBits]

....how do you force a sovereign nation to pay you money they don't want to? In fact, don't tell me, tell Greece and Venezuela's creditors

Any tax levied against Mexico on consumer goods, ultimately hurts the American citizens that purchase said goods, because like any sane person, they will pass the difference along to us.
....

The specific proposal IIRC was to tax remittances, money sent by Mexicans here back to their families. The major revenue source for Mexico.

....
How do you get welfare benefits, or any social welfare, without a valid and unique SSN? Employers can collect taxes from them, and they can pay into social security because the government rarely questions when you give it money. E-verify isn't that sophisticated apparently (which is a while different issue). But even with perfectly good faked papers (a perfect copy of a legitimate persons identity), how do you claim benefits when you have to apply, in person, with a case worker? You would need to supply pay stubs, all types of shit, too much info for a non person to generate......

They do this all the time.

Bitcoin is my answer to the first objection, and for the second objection, again how? It is literally impossible, I have a relation that works at a social security office in a very rural area. While the bar is low, really low, to qualify for help, they need a valid license that they actually run for validity, a valid social, and you need a valid address I believe. If they are stealing an identity, the addresses won't match up. If they fake it, no known person. And SS has access to the DMV. There is some shit you can get just with proof of address, I must admit. But this is usually during emergency situations, like a natural disaster.

Are you sure of this, or is this just talking points? You may have valid examples I'm not privy to, I'm not discounting your experience.it's just, per my experience, they tend to check these things, it's a more one on one process these days.

As a citizen myself, the only way I could think to do this would be to steal a neighbors identity, that you know the circumstance of, and phish enough details through casual conversation to fake pay stubs, mortgage or rent documents, and birth certificates social security numbers. It's possible, but if thats the most feasible way to do this, you can't tell me that the practice is widespread.

It's too hard to compromise an identity to the extent that you could get social welfare from it. You need current, intimate details that would indicate extreme proximity. How would illegals get this proximity as newcomers?

[Sithara007]

How do you get welfare benefits, or any social welfare, without a valid and unique SSN?

Oh.. common... we are talking about a country where there is no ID proof requirement for voting. Once an illegal manages to enroll in the voters list, he can cast his ballot in any election.

[Spendulus]

....how do you force a sovereign nation to pay you money they don't want to? In fact, don't tell me, tell Greece and Venezuela's creditors

Any tax levied against Mexico on consumer goods, ultimately hurts the American citizens that purchase said goods, because like any sane person, they will pass the difference along to us.
....

The specific proposal IIRC was to tax remittances, money sent by Mexicans here back to their families. The major revenue source for Mexico.

....
How do you get welfare benefits, or any social welfare, without a valid and unique SSN? Employers can collect taxes from them, and they can pay into social security because the government rarely questions when you give it money. E-verify isn't that sophisticated apparently (which is a while different issue). But even with perfectly good faked papers (a perfect copy of a legitimate persons identity), how do you claim benefits when you have to apply, in person, with a case worker? You would need to supply pay stubs, all types of shit, too much info for a non person to generate......

They do this all the time.

Bitcoin is my answer to the first objection, and for the second objection, again how? It is literally impossible, I have a relation that works at a social security office in a very rural area. While the bar is low, really low, to qualify for help, they need a valid license that they actually run for validity, a valid social, and you need a valid address I believe. If they are stealing an identity, the addresses won't match up. If they fake it, no known person. And SS has access to the DMV. There is some shit you can get just with proof of address, I must admit. But this is usually during emergency situations, like a natural disaster.

Are you sure of this, or is this just talking points? You may have valid examples I'm not privy to, I'm not discounting your experience.it's just, per my experience, they tend to check these things, it's a more one on one process these days.

As a citizen myself, the only way I could think to do this would be to steal a neighbors identity, that you know the circumstance of, and phish enough details through casual conversation to fake pay stubs, mortgage or rent documents, and birth certificates social security numbers. It's possible, but if thats the most feasible way to do this, you can't tell me that the practice is widespread.

It's too hard to compromise an identity to the extent that you could get social welfare from it. You need current, intimate details that would indicate extreme proximity. How would illegals get this proximity as newcomers?

The fairest answer is that of the hundreds of programs you generalize about, some are easy and some are hard. The very definition of "illegal" is someone operating off-the-books, using a fake SSN at the minimum. The simplest example of off-the-books theft of services is the Mexican that comes across the border to have a baby in an American hospital. Hundreds do this every day.

The real answer to your incredulity is that access to the government programs and funds is easy when those running the programs make it easy — which is the exact intent of many liberals.

Next you'll be claiming if they don't have valid ID they can't possibly enroll their children in school. Again, they do this all the time, routinely.

It may be where you go wrong is assuming the same rules apply to illegals as to you. That's incorrect. For example, you need an ID and a bank account to buy a new car on a loan. An illegal does not.

Worth mulling over, isn't it?