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Author Topic: Please run a full node  (Read 6610 times)
Blinken (OP)
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May 08, 2017, 10:33:57 PM
 #1

If you have a machine you can spare, please run a full node. The more nodes there are, the stronger the network is. Also, if you run a full node you can potentially mine your node for information of various kinds. You can tell if you have a full node by giving the following command:

Code:
bitcoin-cli getinfo

If the "connections" field is greater than 8, then you are running a full node, congratulations!

You can find information on how to run a full node on bitcoin.org here:

https://bitcoin.org/en/full-node

Bitcoin ♦♦♦ Trust in Mathematics, Not Bankers ♦♦♦
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jonald_fyookball
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May 09, 2017, 03:32:03 AM
 #2

I will disagree.  More non-mining nodes doesn't necessarily make the network stronger if there are a sufficient number of nodes already.  Remember that only mining nodes can extend and secure the ledger. 

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May 09, 2017, 04:24:40 AM
Last edit: May 09, 2017, 05:41:52 AM by Quantus
 #3

Daily reminder: Bitcoin is controlled by a pompous pimpled faced rich kid in China and jonald_fyookball is his cock holster.
Jihan Wu of Bitmain is killing bitcoin you can ether run a full node, buy non-chines mining hardware and run your non-chines mining hardware on a non chines pool or you could...



...Kneel before your god!

(I am a 1MB block supporter who thinks all users should be using Full-Node clients)
Avoid the XT shills, they only want to destroy bitcoin, their hubris and greed will destroy us.
Know your adversary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
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May 09, 2017, 04:27:38 AM
 #4

Yeah, we need more miners rather than more full nodes I think to help make the network stronger. But miners require significant investments so most folks won't be setting up new miners even though its needed.
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May 09, 2017, 04:34:55 AM
 #5

Yeah, we need more miners rather than more full nodes I think to help make the network stronger. But miners require significant investments so most folks won't be setting up new miners even though its needed.
This is sigspam nonsense. There is more than enough mining hardware around. What isn't enough of in mining is enough spread of the hashrate. More people buying hardware won't fix that when the economies of scale and cheap electricity means most hardware is clustered in a small number of huge farms owned by very few people.

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-ck
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May 09, 2017, 04:38:30 AM
 #6

If you have a machine you can spare, please run a full node. The more nodes there are, the stronger the network is. Also, if you run a full node you can potentially mine your node for information of various kinds. You can tell if you have a full node by giving the following command:

Code:
bitcoin-cli getinfo

If the "connections" field is greater than 8, then you are running a full node, congratulations!

You can find information on how to run a full node on bitcoin.org here:

https://bitcoin.org/en/full-node


Title of this post should really be "Please run a full node, because..." followed by some short blurb about why that's important.  There are various people reading here new or new-ish to bitcoin or are returning to it very interested after hiatus.

Also a reference to bitcoin.org/en/full-node isn't the best.  I think they need to shorten that instructional.  And what many people don't realize if they have never run a full node before is the port 8333 thing is actually important.  That is buried in the text of the instructions at bitcoin.org/en/full-node way at the end, easy to miss, and it's not explained why it's important.  

Here are a few examples of reddit discussions lately about full nodes and how-to's

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5yubg0/run_a_014_fullnode_on_raspberrypi3_prunedless/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/624xd0/first_time_running_bitcoin_core_full_node/

By the way, this handy site tells you kind of why it's important regarding the port issue, and even tells you if port 8333 is open or closed for you.  https://www.lurkmore.com/mining/port8333/

ABISprotocol (Github/Gist)
http://abis.io
ImHash
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May 09, 2017, 04:54:30 AM
 #7

Who should run a full node and why? are any of you miners willing to share your rewards with us if we were to run full nodes? every time I brought that up people said: don't run a full node because we don't need you to but only if we ask for a share.
Satoshi didn't think of this happening because he never thought about ASIC. running a full node does not help me to get a fast confirmation.
There is zero incentive for non miners to run full node, I am no longer running mine 6 hours a day but only 4 hours just to get synced and that's it.

Even if I own 1000 full nodes I'll have to kiss miners a*ses so they get to include my TX in a block, 10K FN still have to wait hours actually I feel like miners taking advantage of me and think that I'm a fool when they tell me to do this to help the network, network doesn't give a sh*t about me what so ever.

So once again if miners wanted to share their rewards with people running full nodes then why even bother to tell us? they can run them and keep the rewards for themselves.
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May 09, 2017, 04:57:34 AM
Last edit: May 09, 2017, 06:29:38 AM by Quantus
 #8

It's ok ImHash our dear leader Jihan Wu the merciful does not need nor want you to run a full node.

(I am a 1MB block supporter who thinks all users should be using Full-Node clients)
Avoid the XT shills, they only want to destroy bitcoin, their hubris and greed will destroy us.
Know your adversary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
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May 09, 2017, 05:01:49 AM
 #9

People are finally getting that, as Satoshi said already in 2008, "only people trying to make new coins need to run full nodes", and that full nodes that do not mine have almost no utility.  In fact, they have one, important, utility, and that is for its owner: 
1) the owner can verify for himself whether the miners have decided to change the protocol or not
2) the owner has extra privacy and security, because he doesn't need to rely on a third party full node to verify his transactions, and the transactions he sends out could come from just any light wallet connected to his node, so he has "plausible deniability" for his transaction.
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May 09, 2017, 05:03:01 AM
 #10

It's ok ImHash our dear leader Jihan Wu does not want you to run a full node.

Why wouldn't he ?  You're being his proxy server, taking some load off his infrastructure, so of course he likes you to be his proxy server full node.
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May 09, 2017, 05:05:17 AM
 #11

People are finally getting that, as Satoshi said already in 2008, "only people trying to make new coins need to run full nodes", and that full nodes that do not mine have almost no utility.  In fact, they have one, important, utility, and that is for its owner:  
1) the owner can verify for himself whether the miners have decided to change the protocol or not
2) the owner has extra privacy and security, because he doesn't need to rely on a third party full node to verify his transactions, and the transactions he sends out could come from just any light wallet connected to his node, so he has "plausible deniability" for his transaction.


Blasphemer



Our God Jihan Wu the eternal is good and trusting only he can confirm all transactions only he is strong and moral enough to uphold the bitcoin.

(I am a 1MB block supporter who thinks all users should be using Full-Node clients)
Avoid the XT shills, they only want to destroy bitcoin, their hubris and greed will destroy us.
Know your adversary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
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May 09, 2017, 05:36:31 AM
 #12

Yeah, we need more miners rather than more full nodes I think to help make the network stronger. But miners require significant investments so most folks won't be setting up new miners even though its needed.
This is sigspam nonsense. There is more than enough mining hardware around. What isn't enough of in mining is enough spread of the hashrate. More people buying hardware won't fix that when the economies of scale and cheap electricity means most hardware is clustered in a small number of huge farms owned by very few people.

this can't be helped, unless there is that algo change that we were talking abaout few week ago, and even then i think chinese would control gpu miner if we were to return back to our roots

i bet they have the majority of hash in altcoin too with gpu mining, still it's true that more casual mining wuld be possible without asic, which is good for decentralization
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May 09, 2017, 06:09:18 AM
 #13

Until we get some competition for the big Asic manufacturers and get more hardware into people's hands, we are fk'ed. These mining giants are just growing bigger by the day, and they use our money to do it. We buy obsolete hardware from them and we pay them more fees when the Blockchain is spammed and they mine more efficiently with the help of ASICBOOST and cheaper electricity.

Bend over and take it from behind or get someone to compete with them. ^grrrrrrr^

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dinofelis
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May 09, 2017, 06:14:02 AM
 #14

Until we get some competition for the big Asic manufacturers and get more hardware into people's hands, we are fk'ed. These mining giants are just growing bigger by the day, and they use our money to do it. We buy obsolete hardware from them and we pay them more fees when the Blockchain is spammed and they mine more efficiently with the help of ASICBOOST and cheaper electricity.

Bend over and take it from behind or get someone to compete with them. ^grrrrrrr^

I think this is a cause of the alt coin rise.  To hedge against bitcoin monopoly risk, now that it has a very centralized power structure.
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May 09, 2017, 06:32:01 AM
Last edit: May 09, 2017, 07:22:46 AM by franky1
 #15

ok here is me being unbiased

NODES DO MATTER:

bitcoin is a symbiotic relationship.
pools collate the tx data in a certain format.

the node network judge which block of data is a valid format of collated data and keeps that block if everything is valid/approved.

other nodes then see that a node has a new 'height' and requests that new accepted block. and as a snowball effect if the majority of the nodes have the same consensus rules, that block gets shared to the majority and that block gets set in stone.

by nodes holding a block and then pools building ontop of the most approved/valid previous block a single chain of good, valid accepted data becomes locked in and immutable.

if pools build upon blocks that are not majority accepted, they can find their newest attempt rejected because of the orphaning effect.

anyone shouting non-mining nodes do not matter, are only saying so because they dont want 'the opposition' gaining majority.

the problem with this is if both sides of the 'opposition' were to turn off their non mining nodes, then the only nodes of majority left are the miners nodes which then makes the mining nodes have more control because they become the majority.

for network safety sake dont let the 20 pools have the 'majority' otherwise they then control the network.

yes some will argue ' but if there are non-mining nodes setting rule A but pools want rule B it makes it harder/impossible for rule B to become law' well thats the point.

rule B should only become law if the community want rule B as a combined majority. it prevents pools changing the rules at a whim, it makes devs and pools actually fall inline and only change the rules if the new rules are good for the community as a majority.

this does not mean everyone should run 20+ nodes it just means dont let the decisions of rule changes become centralised


tl:dr;
its not just a mining game of who builds the biggest tower of blocks the fastest wins. where everyone then copies(like sheep) the fastest built tower..
its actually jenga.
who has the most stable and accepted highest tower of blocks without holes or risks of toppling over wins.
and its the node majority that get to poke holes in the tower until there is only one tower of strong immutable blocks that wont topple over

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
dinofelis
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May 09, 2017, 01:34:47 PM
 #16

All of the arguments that "nodes do matter" have the logical fallacy of taking the "intended way the network SHOULD work" as the "actually technically resulting technical operation".

This is the fallacy that is similar to:
- you've build a rocket to go to the moon with propellers, but propellers don't work in space !
- Of course propellers work in space !
- No, they don't.  They need air to function and in space, there is no air.
- But propellers obviously work in space, because we designed a rocket to go to the moon, and it has propellers !  Hence, propellers work in space, Q.E.D.

The argument here is that "because nodes SHOULD (that is: "we desire that", like we desire that our rocket flies to the moon) keep the miners in check, well, nodes ARE keeping the miners in check".

They don't.  I'll show you:

ok here is me being unbiased

NODES DO MATTER:

bitcoin is a symbiotic relationship.

=> my desire

Quote
pools collate the tx data in a certain format.

the node network judge which block of data is a valid format of collated data and keeps that block if everything is valid/approved.

other nodes then see that a node has a new 'height' and requests that new accepted block. and as a snowball effect if the majority of the nodes have the same consensus rules, that block gets shared to the majority and that block gets set in stone.

That block doesn't get set in stone because a majority of nodes copy it.  It will get set in stone if the following miner pools DECIDE TO MINE on top of it.  And they don't need the network to get their block ; they get it from the miner pool that mined it.  Directly.  Because they are in a hurry.  They don't WAIT for the P2P network to "approve it", because they would be wasting their time and hash rate in the mean time.

Quote
by nodes holding a block and then pools building ontop of the most approved/valid previous block a single chain of good, valid accepted data becomes locked in and immutable.

==> the only way a block becomes accepted, locked and immutable is because other miners mine their blocks on top of it.  Whether remote nodes download it or not, doesn't matter in this case.

Quote
if pools build upon blocks that are not majority accepted, they can find their newest attempt rejected because of the orphaning effect.

==> what "orphaning effect" ?  Orphaning occurs when OTHER MINERS decide to mine upon ANOTHER block than the orphaned block.  If miners decided to mine upon block A, with blocks B, C, D and E, there simply isn't any other set of blocks around that a P2P node could "prefer".  Suppose that a majority of P2P nodes decides to "orphan" block B.  But the miners have been building blocks C, D and E on top of B.  What happens ?

Well, these nodes stop.  They stop at block A.  And they can't find any other block that pleases them.  B wasn't according to their taste.  But there's NO OTHER BLOCK around that is built upon A.  Nobody has ever made a block on top of A with a higher PoW than the chain B,C,D,E.  In fact, nobody ever made a block on top of A.

So what is the difference between our full node "not accepting" block B, and our full node just being switched off ?
What's the "orphan effect" of switching off your full node ?

Quote
anyone shouting non-mining nodes do not matter, are only saying so because they dont want 'the opposition' gaining majority.

No.  They are people that don't confuse "desires" with logical consequences.  If miners don't make another block than block B, you can chose between accepting block B, whatever miners did with it, or stop your node.  What else can you do, with your full node that doesn't like block B ?

Let us take a very simple example.  Let us assume that the miners, collectively, decide to make bigger blocks.  From block B onward, they make blocks of 1.2 MB.  All miners agree (to show you that it are the MINERS that decide).  They build a chain in which block B is 1.2 MB.  Nobody builds a chain with an alternative B block of only 1 MB.
99% of nodes refuse.  They don't accept a block of 1 MB.  But miners happily continue building blocks.  What now ?

Quote
the problem with this is if both sides of the 'opposition' were to turn off their non mining nodes, then the only nodes of majority left are the miners nodes which then makes the mining nodes have more control because they become the majority.

But there is no "majority rule" of nodes.  The reason why Satoshi introduced vote per hashrate, was exactly to nullify every effect of "majority of nodes".  As miner pools are directly connected between themselves (for reasons of not wasting hash rate), they don't need the P2P network to get a block from another miner.

So all non-mining nodes can do, is copy the one and unique chain that miners make.  If they like it, they keep it ; if they don't like it, they stop.
dinofelis
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May 09, 2017, 01:35:45 PM
 #17

its not just a mining game of who builds the biggest tower of blocks the fastest wins. where everyone then copies(like sheep) the fastest built tower..

=> but it is exactly like that.

(because there is no OTHER tower)
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May 09, 2017, 01:42:34 PM
 #18

If you have a machine you can spare, please run a full node. The more nodes there are, the stronger the network is. Also, if you run a full node you can potentially mine your node for information of various kinds. You can tell if you have a full node by giving the following command:

Code:
bitcoin-cli getinfo

If the "connections" field is greater than 8, then you are running a full node, congratulations!

You can find information on how to run a full node on bitcoin.org here:

https://bitcoin.org/en/full-node

But PCs need to be pretty configurable and online continuously! Full node mode is very secure because it is certainly not fraudulent. But it is not convenient with small traders
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May 09, 2017, 01:57:25 PM
 #19

Is there anything we can do to fight this monopoly? My understanding is that changing the structure of the Bitcoin network needs a hard fork, and a hard fork needs hashing power. Or we are just fu**ed? Is this the biggest flaw in Nakamoto's vision?
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May 09, 2017, 02:20:01 PM
 #20

If you are mining I think this is very convenient for you but if you are a non miner and just want a stronger network and because you just have a spare machine that doesn't really have in use there is a limited number of nodes to connect, and Running a Bitcoin full node comes with certain costs and can expose you to certain risks. and Some Internet plans will charge an additional amount for any excess upload bandwidth used that isn’t included in the plan.
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