Received BFL Jalapeño Today!

[k9quaint]

I don't see how BFL stopped him from buying 23 BTC at any time, can you please post where BFL forbids people from purchasing BTC once they purchase one of our products, which are sold for USD (Not BTC)?

You can't?  Oh, then your argument is fallacious.  Nice try at rationalizing a false premise, though.  Well, actually, no it's not.  It's pretty sophomoric and elementary.

The trolls have shifted their stance from "BFL has never shipped" to people could have done X with their pre-payment money.

No we are not trolls. Yes, it is called opportunity cost. It is actually the core of every complaint about BFL. Take a college course or two in economics.

In the real world people can wait for many months for a house to be built with a deposit much larger than the cost of a BFL device, and they are perfectly happy with that, as long as the builder doesn't go bust and they get their house in the end.

A deposit that is usually a very small percentage of the cost of the house. They don't pay the full price of the house upfront (unless they are morons).
Nobody is perfectly happy with a late house, in fact everyone who has more than 2 neurons is pissed off because they don't have a house when they should have had a house. Lawyers are usually involved. So are insurance companies.

BFL customer service is defended by strawmen and bootlickers.

[erk]

In the real world people can wait for many months for a house to be built with a deposit much larger than the cost of a BFL device, and they are perfectly happy with that, as long as the builder doesn't go bust and they get their house in the end.

In the real world, having just had a house built I know how this works.  The builder has compulsory insurance should they default before the house is finished.  The insurance company would pay and I would have an angry bank chasing the builder (the bank paid the money, not me).  In the real world we all know if BFL goes belly up before a customer's order is shipped there's basically nothing that can be done.  A BFL asset sale would maybe return 5c in every dollar.

I also had a due date for the house and it was finished two months ahead of schedule.  BFL has missed promised shipping dates since October 2012.

So you are suggesting houses don't have long construction delays and people cant loose their money, to that I say utter crap, the current affairs programs on TV are full of such stories.

[Tehfiend]

I don't see how BFL stopped him from buying 23 BTC at any time, can you please post where BFL forbids people from purchasing BTC once they purchase one of our products, which are sold for USD (Not BTC)?

You can't?  Oh, then your argument is fallacious.  Nice try at rationalizing a false premise, though.  Well, actually, no it's not.  It's pretty sophomoric and elementary.

I tried arguing this many times and finally gave up. People are too dumb to realize they could have paid in BTC, then immediately bought the BTC back. In fact, BitPay even offered to sell the BTC back to customers... If the value of 1 BTC was $1 right now, they would be demanding USD back and not BTC. I am pissed off I didn't buy BTC back after my ASIC pre-orders, but I do not blame BFL one bit, only myself. Oh well, 1 year from now I will be glad I am holding my BTC now

Edit: also, back on topic, grats on the jalapeno OP! Can't wait for the Single SCs to start shipping!

WOW. Josh's response to this argument is so absurd I don't know where to begin. So let me get this straight. Josh is claiming grue's "argument is fallacious" because nobody stopped BFL customers from making ADDITIONAL investments directly into BTC? LMAO that's not how it works and his argument is spot on. The fact is plain and simple. Somebody that had $150 ten months ago would have been better off just buying 23BTC directly since a Jalapeno will likely only mine 75% or so of that before it's unproductive. What they could have done with an ADDITIONAL $150 makes absolutely no difference.

The only thing "sophomoric and elementary" is how Josh conducts himself and his behavior and irrational arguments are lowering my opinion of BFL more than their extreme shipping delays have. I will take Bitsyncom's black hole over this insanity ANY DAY.

[-ck]

Can we have one BFL thread that doesn't end up debating the same offtopic things that 10 billion other threads already do?

[SgtSpike]

After many, many, many months of waiting I’m glad to report BFL has delivered. I received my first Jalapeño today!

This bad boy is getting 5.6 Gigahash instead of 4.5 Gigahash listed on their website. I'm thrilled about about the speed increase even though it's larger and takes more power.

For a $149 investment it'll repay itself and make $1300 on top in one month of mining.

Here are some pics for your enjoyment... View at imgur: http://imgur.com/a/fHvMm#0

Scared - do you know the power usage of your device?

[Morblias]

The fact is plain and simple. Somebody that had $150 ten months ago would have been better off just buying 23BTC directly since a Jalapeno will likely only mine 75% or so of that before it's unproductive.

If you could tell me exactly what the price of BTC will be 10 months from now, please let me know so I can either buy or sell a shit load of BTC. Until then, please don't ever post again.

[DoomDumas]

For a $149 investment it'll repay itself and make $1300 on top in one month of mining.

Think again. You paid about 23 BTC 10 months ago. You'll make .3 btc/day. Even if the difficulty doesn't skyrocket (which it will), you need more than 2 months to just break even. You aren't making any profit for a long time.

No, he paid in USD, just like everyone else.  Nice try, though.

I paid mine in BTC (and BFL received USD) and have no regrets at all.. I dont look to the past for "re-evaluate" trade/buy/donation... When I do a deal, it is what it worth, at that time...

I've sold a XBox360 for 250 BTC when they were at 1$.. I dont see it as I if sold it for 35 000 U$.. I sold it for 250 BTC.

In the past, I've made donation of few BTC.. I dont think now I've made hundreds of dollar donations, I've made few BTC donation.

I've sold more then 5k BTC under 1$.. No regret, because, at this time, I was happy of each trade I made.

Bought thousand of $ of BTC under 100$, sold part of it over 200$... When BTC will be trade for thousands of fiat $, I will still have no regret of any trade made in the past..

You dont beleive in BTC over 500$, lets bet on it   see my signature

[Inaba]

I don't see how BFL stopped him from buying 23 BTC at any time, can you please post where BFL forbids people from purchasing BTC once they purchase one of our products, which are sold for USD (Not BTC)?

You can't?  Oh, then your argument is fallacious.  Nice try at rationalizing a false premise, though.  Well, actually, no it's not.  It's pretty sophomoric and elementary.

I tried arguing this many times and finally gave up. People are too dumb to realize they could have paid in BTC, then immediately bought the BTC back. In fact, BitPay even offered to sell the BTC back to customers... If the value of 1 BTC was $1 right now, they would be demanding USD back and not BTC. I am pissed off I didn't buy BTC back after my ASIC pre-orders, but I do not blame BFL one bit, only myself. Oh well, 1 year from now I will be glad I am holding my BTC now

Edit: also, back on topic, grats on the jalapeno OP! Can't wait for the Single SCs to start shipping!

WOW. Josh's response to this argument is so absurd I don't know where to begin. So let me get this straight. Josh is claiming grue's "argument is fallacious" because nobody stopped BFL customers from making ADDITIONAL investments directly into BTC? LMAO that's not how it works and his argument is spot on. The fact is plain and simple. Somebody that had $150 ten months ago would have been better off just buying 23BTC directly since a Jalapeno will likely only mine 75% or so of that before it's unproductive. What they could have done with an ADDITIONAL $150 makes absolutely no difference.

The only thing "sophomoric and elementary" is how Josh conducts himself and his behavior and irrational arguments are lowering my opinion of BFL more than their extreme shipping delays have. I will take Bitsyncom's black hole over this insanity ANY DAY.

The only thing absurd in your post is your grasp on common sense.

[smoothie]

For a $149 investment it'll repay itself and make $1300 on top in one month of mining.

Think again. You paid about 23 BTC 10 months ago. You'll make .3 btc/day. Even if the difficulty doesn't skyrocket (which it will), you need more than 2 months to just break even. You aren't making any profit for a long time.

No, he paid in USD, just like everyone else.  Nice try, though.

Hey Inaba,

It's called lost opportunity. Paying you fools in any fiat paper that could have been put towards bitcoin is a lost opportunity.

Nice try, though to deflect.

[peterepeat]

I guess many people purchased BTC to buy the Jalapeno at the time.
(I know I did) i.e. I would not have purchased BTC otherwise at the time, so whether to keep or not is really a moot point from this perspective.
It was just that the process was Fiat-> BTC -> Bitpay -> Order Confirmed.

[Tehfiend]

The fact is plain and simple. Somebody that had $150 ten months ago would have been better off just buying 23BTC directly since a Jalapeno will likely only mine 75% or so of that before it's unproductive.

If you could tell me exactly what the price of BTC will be 10 months from now, please let me know so I can either buy or sell a shit load of BTC. Until then, please don't ever post again.

The future exchange rate has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with this. Hold my hand as I walk you through it. If somebody wants to invest in BTC they can either A) buy them or B) buy hardware to mine them.

If they had decided to A) buy BTC and the price of BTC today was $1,000, they would have 23BTC today. If the price of BTC today was $0, they would still have 23BTC today.

If they decided to B) pre-order a Jalapeno to mine them and the price today was $1,000, they would have 0BTC today. If the price was $0, they would still have 0BTC. If the price in a year from now is $1,000 they might have 17BTC by that time. If the price in a year is $0, they would still have 17BTC.

See how that works? Somebody that pre-ordered a Jalapeno 10 months ago will have 25% less BTC than if they bought them directly. It doesn't matter what the exchange rate has done in the last 10 months.

[smoothie]

I don't see how BFL stopped him from buying 23 BTC at any time, can you please post where BFL forbids people from purchasing BTC once they purchase one of our products, which are sold for USD (Not BTC)?

You can't?  Oh, then your argument is fallacious.  Nice try at rationalizing a false premise, though.  Well, actually, no it's not.  It's pretty sophomoric and elementary.

The trolls have shifted their stance from "BFL has never shipped" to people could have done X with their pre-payment money.
 
In the real world people can wait for many months for a house to be built with a deposit much larger than the cost of a BFL device, and they are perfectly happy with that, as long as the builder doesn't go bust and they get their house in the end.

Why so many HW errors?

Certainly a problem there which requires investigating.

Until BFL catches up to all of their orders in the QUEUE they are in essence screwing someone else over.

They have not delivered in full to all customers from 6, 8, 10 months ago. So stfu until then okay? Thanks  

[Tehfiend]

I don't see how BFL stopped him from buying 23 BTC at any time, can you please post where BFL forbids people from purchasing BTC once they purchase one of our products, which are sold for USD (Not BTC)?

You can't?  Oh, then your argument is fallacious.  Nice try at rationalizing a false premise, though.  Well, actually, no it's not.  It's pretty sophomoric and elementary.

I tried arguing this many times and finally gave up. People are too dumb to realize they could have paid in BTC, then immediately bought the BTC back. In fact, BitPay even offered to sell the BTC back to customers... If the value of 1 BTC was $1 right now, they would be demanding USD back and not BTC. I am pissed off I didn't buy BTC back after my ASIC pre-orders, but I do not blame BFL one bit, only myself. Oh well, 1 year from now I will be glad I am holding my BTC now

Edit: also, back on topic, grats on the jalapeno OP! Can't wait for the Single SCs to start shipping!

WOW. Josh's response to this argument is so absurd I don't know where to begin. So let me get this straight. Josh is claiming grue's "argument is fallacious" because nobody stopped BFL customers from making ADDITIONAL investments directly into BTC? LMAO that's not how it works and his argument is spot on. The fact is plain and simple. Somebody that had $150 ten months ago would have been better off just buying 23BTC directly since a Jalapeno will likely only mine 75% or so of that before it's unproductive. What they could have done with an ADDITIONAL $150 makes absolutely no difference.

The only thing "sophomoric and elementary" is how Josh conducts himself and his behavior and irrational arguments are lowering my opinion of BFL more than their extreme shipping delays have. I will take Bitsyncom's black hole over this insanity ANY DAY.

The only thing absurd in your post is your grasp on common sense.

Translation: "I got nothing"

[Syke]

Just saying here's a chance to make sure BFL are sticking to their own set of rules for delivery, it would be easy enough to discover, do something useful for once!

Oh, you mean the 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 rule for delivery they promised and now are ignoring?

[Inaba]

I don't see how BFL stopped him from buying 23 BTC at any time, can you please post where BFL forbids people from purchasing BTC once they purchase one of our products, which are sold for USD (Not BTC)?

You can't?  Oh, then your argument is fallacious.  Nice try at rationalizing a false premise, though.  Well, actually, no it's not.  It's pretty sophomoric and elementary.

I tried arguing this many times and finally gave up. People are too dumb to realize they could have paid in BTC, then immediately bought the BTC back. In fact, BitPay even offered to sell the BTC back to customers... If the value of 1 BTC was $1 right now, they would be demanding USD back and not BTC. I am pissed off I didn't buy BTC back after my ASIC pre-orders, but I do not blame BFL one bit, only myself. Oh well, 1 year from now I will be glad I am holding my BTC now

Edit: also, back on topic, grats on the jalapeno OP! Can't wait for the Single SCs to start shipping!

WOW. Josh's response to this argument is so absurd I don't know where to begin. So let me get this straight. Josh is claiming grue's "argument is fallacious" because nobody stopped BFL customers from making ADDITIONAL investments directly into BTC? LMAO that's not how it works and his argument is spot on. The fact is plain and simple. Somebody that had $150 ten months ago would have been better off just buying 23BTC directly since a Jalapeno will likely only mine 75% or so of that before it's unproductive. What they could have done with an ADDITIONAL $150 makes absolutely no difference.

The only thing "sophomoric and elementary" is how Josh conducts himself and his behavior and irrational arguments are lowering my opinion of BFL more than their extreme shipping delays have. I will take Bitsyncom's black hole over this insanity ANY DAY.

The only thing absurd in your post is your grasp on common sense.

Translation: "I got nothing"

No, the proper translation is: I'm not feeling like arguing with stupid.  Check back later, maybe my mood will have changed.

Try understanding the basics of what you're posting before you post, you might get a more comprehensive response.  The fact that you have no idea what you're talking about makes it hard to even know where to start.

[Bitsaurus]

For a $149 investment it'll repay itself and make $1300 on top in one month of mining.

Think again. You paid about 23 BTC 10 months ago. You'll make .3 btc/day. Even if the difficulty doesn't skyrocket (which it will), you need more than 2 months to just break even. You aren't making any profit for a long time.

No, he paid in USD, just like everyone else.  Nice try, though.

Meanwhile, if he bought BTC, he would have 23 BTC, right now. Nice try at post rationalizing though.

I don't see how BFL stopped him from buying 23 BTC at any time, can you please post where BFL forbids people from purchasing BTC once they purchase one of our products, which are sold for USD (Not BTC)?

You can't?  Oh, then your argument is fallacious.  Nice try at rationalizing a false premise, though.  Well, actually, no it's not.  It's pretty sophomoric and elementary.

I hope your wife is doing the finances in your household.  How about you pay me now for 1 billion shares and I'll submit them to your pool 10 months from now when my ASICs arrive?

-Perhaps he did not have $150 more to buy BTC? You're married, you should know you can't spend willy nilly
-Pehaps he expected he would receive his device in October 2012 because it said so on the internet.  Oh that's right, you can't believe everything on the internet, especially from duplicitous PR guy.
-Perhaps he thought in October that the price had not changed much and he would receive his device in November.  And then in November he was told it would arrive in December.  Repeat this sequence until April 2013.  Why should he buy additional BTC - wasn't that the point of purchasing the miner?
-If BFL converted the Bitpay BTC to ass hamsters would he be refunded in ass hamsters?  If BFL converted Bitpay's BTC payment to some crack on SR would he be refunded in crack?

Nothing stopped sensible people from buying a simple 7770 which might have mined 23 BTC by now - well nothing except common sense.  Would you, Inaba, buy a video card and related computer hardware and mine at 200MH/s when you have an order pending for a device that would do 4.5GH/s at 1/20 the power.  Would you?  I just want a simple yes or no answer - don't go on with talk about how I'm not worth your time?  I own a BFL Single (original owner) and I had orders for ASICs, so don't count me in your pool of detractors who never even bought BFL hardware.

Yes BFL cannot be blamed for people who want a refund in BTC paid - you can't use a purchase as a hedge against foreign exchanges.  They can blame BFL for poor planning on their miner hardware deployment secondary to BFL's, uh how did you word it, "fallacious statement" - of which I believe you were responsible for later on in 2012.  I have yet to see you apologize even once for the delays the BFL suffered, whether intentional or not.  Can't you for just one time say you hurt people?  Or does that admit to liability to be used in court?

Come on, rebuke me with some of your SAT vocabulary.  Please abstain from 4 letter words and profanity.

[PuertoLibre]

Um no,

It will be full of:

"WTF! My order number is <insert order number>. Mine is way below his!? Why hasn't mine already shipped?"

Order number doesn't say much anyway since it's the day BFL received full payment that counts, considering this any "normal" order that gets filled right now should have been paid with BTC. Since you like to bash BFL so much you can therefore go hunt for someone who received their day one pre-orders and paid with bank wire (iirc paypal wasn't available from the start). Let's see how it turns out!

What would be the point?

As soon as anyone else posts that they have recieved the lowest end product, other customers will jump on it and bemoan that they haven't received theirs. In the execution of their bemoaning they will give everyone watching plenty of "juicy details", hence there is no point to go fetch it. It will be there by morning on this, or any other thread.

Well if you did manage to find someone who who got their product before they should have (as in they ordered day one but BFL recieved payment later) You would have some actual FACTS to throw at BFL for once rather than your usual pointless mess you like to spew. Then again basing something on facts isn't really your expertise is it.

Just saying here's a chance to make sure BFL are sticking to their own set of rules for delivery, it would be easy enough to discover, do something useful for once!

Rograz, you must be new.

I do use the truth to "throw at BFL". You just don't appear to know it, hence your ignorance.

[wrenchmonkey]

This argument is beyond retarded. It's the same trolls over and over (I'm looking to you, Smoothie). It's not BFL's fault that people didn't choose to invest in bitcoin instead of a pre-order of an ASIC miner. Nobody had any knowledge, let alone a guarantee that the bitcoin exchange rate was going to rocket off like it did in such a short amount of time. Some people bet wrong, and didn't make as much money. boo hoo.

The same argument can be made on ANY investment, with the benefit of hindsight. "Well, if you'd just bet on the winning team, you wouldn't have lost the bet. So clearly the losing team owes the bettor some winnings!" Um. no.

Give it a rest, people. If you don't want a BFL, don't buy one. If you missed the boat then go cry a river. Trolling the forums with every possible contrived little complaint you can dig up just demonstrates that you're a whiny bitch with an ax to grind...

[PuertoLibre]

The fact is plain and simple. Somebody that had $150 ten months ago would have been better off just buying 23BTC directly since a Jalapeno will likely only mine 75% or so of that before it's unproductive.

If you could tell me exactly what the price of BTC will be 10 months from now, please let me know so I can either buy or sell a shit load of BTC. Until then, please don't ever post again.

The future exchange rate has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with this. Hold my hand as I walk you through it. If somebody wants to invest in BTC they can either A) buy them or B) buy hardware to mine them.

If they had decided to A) buy BTC and the price of BTC today was $1,000, they would have 23BTC today. If the price of BTC today was $0, they would still have 23BTC today.

If they decided to B) pre-order a Jalapeno to mine them and the price today was $1,000, they would have 0BTC today. If the price was $0, they would still have 0BTC. If the price in a year from now is $1,000 they might have 17BTC by that time. If the price in a year is $0, they would still have 17BTC.

See how that works? Somebody that pre-ordered a Jalapeno 10 months ago will have 25% less BTC than if they bought them directly. It doesn't matter what the exchange rate has done in the last 10 months.

Watch out for this guy Inaba, it seems he has more common sense (and critical thinking) than most....

He's a sharp tack, don't step on him!

[k9quaint]

No, the proper translation is: I'm not feeling like arguing with stupid.  Check back later, maybe my mood will have changed.

Try understanding the basics of what you're posting before you post, you might get a more comprehensive response.  The fact that you have no idea what you're talking about makes it hard to even know where to start.

Right now, the best indicator to me that BFL is both shady and unprofessional is that Inaba is still employed by them. Any real company would have fired their PR monkey for treating customers the way Josh has.
So why haven't they fired him? They must need him to be a dick on the forums.
What could being belligerent on the forums possible get BFL? It might deflect current pre-order investors from asking too many questions.
Why doesn't BFL want their investors asking questions? I don't know.

I do know the following:
As long as BFL ships just enough devices to avoid being called a scam and damaging the reputation of Bitcoin further, all is good (unless you are a BFL investor).
As long as BFL doesn't ship enough devices to affect the network hashrate, all is good (unless you are a BFL investor).