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Author Topic: Buying mining hardware will never pay off now.  (Read 4163 times)
Swishercutter
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June 18, 2011, 11:04:15 PM
 #21


Do you not find value in effectively having your own BitCoin exchange in your basement?  You give the power utility bucks, you get out BitCoins.  The account is already set up.  No Big Brother watching your interaction with Mt.Gox. 

Seems like there might be something worthwhile about that.



This guy has been on the forum 5 days and so far his posts are as follows...discrediting Mt.Gox, Discrediting mining profit margins and a thread about how his entire BTC client disappeared overnight...clearly he is spreading FUD...read his posts.
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billiophile
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June 18, 2011, 11:06:32 PM
 #22

I had a P45 C2D motherboard lying around as a spare. Decided to spend some cash on a couple of bits today (cheapo dual core, 4Gb DDR2, 2 x ATI 5830, Win 7 64 bit). Since the 5830 were on offer, I couldn't resist. I like having a spare working machine in case any of the parts can't cope with 100% CPU / GPU 24/7. Now I have 2 PCs mining away on a pool.

Given ATI hardware has a significant advantage over nVidia, I would have thought they'd market that in a big way this past 2 years. I'm a little ashamed I only found out about bitcoin last night, but I do feel ATI could easily have had the slogan, 'ATI makes YOU money faster' or something. The thought of a customer spending real money on a graphics card only to then get that money back in bitcoins... ATI probably missed a trick there.



William
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June 18, 2011, 11:06:53 PM
 #23

Can I interest anyone is Solar (Photovoltaic) generation?

Off peak power?

A WIND generator ...?

This is SUPPOSED to be a "geekfest" folks - IMHO that means we are "creative" in some sense or other!

HEY anyone going to be at the AG in Portland over the 4th of July? Meet me in Hospitality and I will buy you a beer! (Inside joke)

If guns magically made you safe then US cities would be the safest in the world!

A firearm is NOT a "magic talisman" it is a TOOL just like a hammer!
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June 18, 2011, 11:09:12 PM
 #24

Given ATI hardware has a significant advantage over nVidia, I would have thought they'd market that in a big way this past 2 years. I'm a little ashamed I only found out about bitcoin last night, but I do feel ATI could easily have had the slogan, 'ATI makes YOU money faster' or something. The thought of a customer spending real money on a graphics card only to then get that money back in bitcoins... ATI probably missed a trick there.

Their marketing halfwits are still trying to learn how to spell "BitCoin"!

If guns magically made you safe then US cities would be the safest in the world!

A firearm is NOT a "magic talisman" it is a TOOL just like a hammer!
Hook^
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June 18, 2011, 11:21:30 PM
 #25

In my case even selling my CPU's as used gaming rigs I will still turn a profit.  I guarantee I can sell them for more than I paid, even with full disclosure on what they were used for...plus I live in a smaller population area and there is still several craigslist ads trying to buy any and all ATI cards they can get their hands on.
If you can sell them for more than you paid, that is a profit from selling hardware, not mining bitcoins.  In which case you could sell the thing now and buy bitcoins with the profit and make more money.

The only thing that counts is bitcoins made from mining.

So I will make a friendly wager if you are interested.  You paid $850 for your equipment.  At the current exchange rate of $18/BitCoin, that would be about 47 BitCoins.  I will wager you 1 bitcoin that your mining equipment will not even make 47 bitcoins before it costs more in electricity than the value of the bitcoins generated (at today's bitcoin exchange rate).  I emphasize the current exchange rate, because as I said before if the exchange rate goes up, you could make money in the exchange, rather than making your own coins.

So for you system, say it consumes 800 watts at $0.07/kwh, it would cost about $1.92/day to run.  That is $1.34/day for power.  So you have reached the end of profitability when you produce less than .107 bitcoins/day.  Again, you have to consider the profitability of todays rate, because if the exchange rate goes up, it merely means you should invest in bitcoins, not miners.
 
Let's say in 90 days.  Are you up for the wager?  Wink
Swishercutter
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June 18, 2011, 11:24:24 PM
 #26

In my case even selling my CPU's as used gaming rigs I will still turn a profit.  I guarantee I can sell them for more than I paid, even with full disclosure on what they were used for...plus I live in a smaller population area and there is still several craigslist ads trying to buy any and all ATI cards they can get their hands on.
If you can sell them for more than you paid, that is a profit from selling hardware, not mining bitcoins.  In which case you could sell the thing now and buy bitcoins with the profit and make more money.

The only thing that counts is bitcoins made from mining.

So I will make a friendly wager if you are interested.  You paid $850 for your equipment.  At the current exchange rate of $18/BitCoin, that would be about 47 BitCoins.  I will wager you 1 bitcoin that your mining equipment will not even make 47 bitcoins before it costs more in electricity than the value of the bitcoins generated (at today's bitcoin exchange rate).  I emphasize the current exchange rate, because as I said before if the exchange rate goes up, you could make money in the exchange, rather than making your own coins.

So for you system, say it consumes 800 watts at $0.07/kwh, it would cost about $1.92/day to run.  That is $1.34/day for power.  So you have reached the end of profitability when you produce less than .107 bitcoins/day.  Again, you have to consider the profitability of todays rate, because if the exchange rate goes up, it merely means you should invest in bitcoins, not miners.
 
Let's say in 90 days.  Are you up for the wager?  Wink



I have read ALL your posts...Obvious troll is obvious troll.  Good luck to you...I do not need wagers to prove to myself what I have already found on my own...sorry for not trusting your gorilla math.
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June 18, 2011, 11:26:09 PM
 #27


Do you not find value in effectively having your own BitCoin exchange in your basement?  You give the power utility bucks, you get out BitCoins.  The account is already set up.  No Big Brother watching your interaction with Mt.Gox. 

Seems like there might be something worthwhile about that.



This guy has been on the forum 5 days and so far his posts are as follows...discrediting Mt.Gox, Discrediting mining profit margins and a thread about how his entire BTC client disappeared overnight...clearly he is spreading FUD...read his posts.
The Mt. Gox thing was my browser's problem.  IE wouldn't do the popup.  So it wasn't Mt. Gox's problem per se.  If I was trying to discredit Mt. Gox, I wouldn't be telling people to invest in buying bitcoins on the market instead of mining, would I?

It's not just me discrediting mining profits, it is all over the forum if you look.  Other people have done the simple and obvious math.  I have no other dog in the game other than to let people know that as of right now, it is a loss.

But if you are sure of your math, make sure to make the wager I offered.  And we will see in a few months.
Swishercutter
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June 18, 2011, 11:28:03 PM
 #28


Do you not find value in effectively having your own BitCoin exchange in your basement?  You give the power utility bucks, you get out BitCoins.  The account is already set up.  No Big Brother watching your interaction with Mt.Gox. 

Seems like there might be something worthwhile about that.



This guy has been on the forum 5 days and so far his posts are as follows...discrediting Mt.Gox, Discrediting mining profit margins and a thread about how his entire BTC client disappeared overnight...clearly he is spreading FUD...read his posts.
The Mt. Gox thing was my browser's problem.  IE wouldn't do the popup.  So it wasn't Mt. Gox's problem per se.  If I was trying to discredit Mt. Gox, I wouldn't be telling people to invest in buying bitcoins on the market instead of mining, would I?

It's not just me discrediting mining profits, it is all over the forum if you look.  Other people have done the simple and obvious math.  I have no other dog in the game other than to let people know that as of right now, it is a loss.

But if you are sure of your math, make sure to make the wager I offered.  And we will see in a few months.


You have said nothing helpful in any of your posts...just spreading FUD.  My bullshit detector is stronger than your bullshit generator.
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June 18, 2011, 11:29:56 PM
 #29



I have read ALL your posts...Obvious troll is obvious troll.  Good luck to you...I do not need wagers to prove to myself what I have already found on my own...sorry for not trusting your gorilla math.

For example, see this thread from someone else that has done the math:
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=18803.0

I'm sorry you think I am a troll for simply spreading the truth.  If you don't like what I am saying, then there is nothing I can do for you.  I am hoping to let others know what is going on.

Swishercutter
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June 18, 2011, 11:33:53 PM
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I have read ALL your posts...Obvious troll is obvious troll.  Good luck to you...I do not need wagers to prove to myself what I have already found on my own...sorry for not trusting your gorilla math.

For example, see this thread from someone else that has done the math:
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=18803.0

I'm sorry you think I am a troll for simply spreading the truth.  If you don't like what I am saying, then there is nothing I can do for you.  I am hoping to let others know what is going on.



If its already in the forum why talk...spreading FUD...that post is another newbie who obviously didn't plan in advance.  Like I said there are no shortage of people everywhere in the country buying ATI/AMD cards on Craigslist...I don't get this guys panic...plus others in that thread have pointed out the flaw in his math also.
Hook^
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June 18, 2011, 11:34:05 PM
 #31


You have said nothing helpful in any of your posts...just spreading FUD.  My bullshit detector is stronger than your bullshit generator.
I think it is very useful for people not to spend money on something they will never profit from.  Unless as I said before, they are using it for gaming as well.  In which case, they will make a bit of money to lower the cost of their gaming machine overall.
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June 18, 2011, 11:35:49 PM
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If its already in the forum why talk...spreading FUD...that post is another newbie who obviously didn't plan in advance.  Like I said there are no shortage of people everywhere in the country buying ATI/AMD cards on Craigslist...I don't get this guys panic...plus others in that thread have pointed out the flaw in his math also.
I can send you my spreadsheet if you don't belive the math.
Cozezien
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June 18, 2011, 11:38:19 PM
 #33

I'm planning to get into bitcoin mining. I'll have to crunch the numbers though. I pay quite a bit for electricity so I might have ot go with a lower wattage build
billiophile
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June 18, 2011, 11:44:09 PM
 #34

Interesting the change of focus in such a short space of time. Back in the C2D days, there was so much hype going from dual to quad core CPU (more recently to 6+ cores, etc.), main focus being video editing and to some extent gaming. Then all of a sudden GPU / APU are programmed to be significantly faster at cracking passwords and mining for bitcoins. If one's motherboard supports it, it's far cheaper and more efficient buying say 2 x 58xx graphics cards than forking out for a new Intel SB CPU and motherboard.



William
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June 18, 2011, 11:45:24 PM
 #35

I'm planning to get into bitcoin mining. I'll have to crunch the numbers though. I pay quite a bit for electricity so I might have ot go with a lower wattage build
Right now, the electricity:bitcoin value ratio is about 10:1.  The big cost now is just equipment.  This will drop to 1:1 in about 60 days if the bitcoin network keeps growing as fast as it has been.

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June 18, 2011, 11:46:42 PM
 #36

I'm planning to get into bitcoin mining. I'll have to crunch the numbers though. I pay quite a bit for electricity so I might have ot go with a lower wattage build
Right now, the electricity:bitcoin value ratio is about 10:1.  The big cost now is just equipment.  This will drop to 1:1 in about 60 days if the bitcoin network keeps growing as fast as it has been.


Sorry, I had the ration backwards.  You can make $10 in bitcoins for every $1 in electricity, at $0.1/kwh
Swishercutter
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June 18, 2011, 11:47:33 PM
 #37

If its already in the forum why talk...spreading FUD...that post is another newbie who obviously didn't plan in advance.  Like I said there are no shortage of people everywhere in the country buying ATI/AMD cards on Craigslist...I don't get this guys panic...plus others in that thread have pointed out the flaw in his math also.
I can send you my spreadsheet if you don't belive the math.

If I don't trust your math why would I trust your spreadsheet.  More importantly...based on your comments I do not trust you...anyone with half a brain can decide for themselves.
Hook^
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June 18, 2011, 11:47:46 PM
 #38

Can I interest anyone is Solar (Photovoltaic) generation?

Off peak power?

A WIND generator ...?

This is SUPPOSED to be a "geekfest" folks - IMHO that means we are "creative" in some sense or other!

HEY anyone going to be at the AG in Portland over the 4th of July? Meet me in Hospitality and I will buy you a beer! (Inside joke)
Unfortunately, all alternative power sources cost more per watt than conventional.  If alternative power was cheaper, that is all the utilities would buy.
Hook^
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June 18, 2011, 11:52:43 PM
 #39

If I don't trust your math why would I trust your spreadsheet.  More importantly...based on your comments I do not trust you...anyone with half a brain can decide for themselves.
Because the truthfulness of math has nothing to do with the people producing it.  It either stands or falls on its own.  All I have to do is explain how the spreadshet works.  Then if you have any objections to the math itself, you can let it be known.

All you have to do is drop the hostility and have a rational discussion.
Swishercutter
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June 18, 2011, 11:56:55 PM
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If I don't trust your math why would I trust your spreadsheet.  More importantly...based on your comments I do not trust you...anyone with half a brain can decide for themselves.
Because the truthfulness of math has nothing to do with the people producing it.  It either stands or falls on its own.  All I have to do is explain how the spreadshet works.  Then if you have any objections to the math itself, you can let it be known.

All you have to do is drop the hostility and have a rational discussion.


I am currently hitting more btc per day than the calculators say I should, when that stops I might actually believe your spreadshit...til then keep trolling, just don't expect me to drink the Kool-aid.

There was no hostility til you told me your math was somehow more magical than everyone elses.
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