A serious obstacle for bitcoin's popularity

[kryptqnick]

Yesterday morning I wanted to sell some btc and get my local currency. The suggested transaction fee was something like 0.0005 which is (was) less than dollar. Anyway, I agreed and was waiting for the transaction to proceed. Mostly I get lucky and my transactions are confirmed in a few minutes. This one is still pending after more than 24 hours (it's been 30 hours already). I believe if nothing can be done with this, bitcoin will inevitably stop at some point and won't be able to become more popular. Waiting for money for dozens of hours is just too wrong.

[1715132876]

1715132876

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I concur, 100%.  That's one reason why BTC hasn't taken off as a currency.   But it's still good as something to speculate on,  and as a (very volatile) store of value.   When sig campaign payouts don't confirm,  it's frustrating...but when you get a 120% raise in 3 months it's very cool!

[KenR]

I concur, 100%.  That's one reason why BTC hasn't taken off as a currency.   But it's still good as something to speculate on,  and as a (very volatile) store of value.   When sig campaign payouts don't confirm,  it's frustrating...but when you get a 120% raise in 3 months it's very cool!

The architecture seemed to have reach a 'deadlock'.For the satisfactory conditions maintained between between the miners and the nodes,core developers should work solution out.They may already have the solution,who knows.At this point,the insane peek in bitcoin prices only makes me insecure about the rising transaction fees.If you read the bitcoin's whitepaper,it does say the system is suppose to implement fast transactions.Well,comes with an extra service fees now.

[davidmccoy]

As the prices are going up, the systems are getting busier and transactions are not getting confirmed. This is a serious problem as the ratio of pending transactions is getting higher and higher.

[bitbunnny]

No one has said that Bitcoin is perfect and transactions fees and speed are among the obstacles, I agree. At the moment seems that miners are making some kind of pressure by imposing rather high fees. But I think these are the problems that could be solved, if there is a will and still there are more advantages than disadvantages.

[hatshepsut93]

I concur, 100%.  That's one reason why BTC hasn't taken off as a currency.   But it's still good as something to speculate on,  and as a (very volatile) store of value.   When sig campaign payouts don't confirm,  it's frustrating...but when you get a 120% raise in 3 months it's very cool!

And the size of transaction fees is a good reason too. 0.0005 BTC for 0.01 transaction is a 5% fee, which you almost never see in any other currencies. With smaller transaction the percentage of fee is even higher. Together with other factors it makes BTC a really bad currency for small transactions, but for bigger transactions, like getting your salary, it's one of the best options, because it's global and fees are static.

[jonald_fyookball]

I concur, 100%.  That's one reason why BTC hasn't taken off as a currency.   But it's still good as something to speculate on,  and as a (very volatile) store of value.   When sig campaign payouts don't confirm,  it's frustrating...but when you get a 120% raise in 3 months it's very cool!

Why would it be any different than tulip bulbs as a store of value if you can't use it for payments?

[Nagadota]

I concur, 100%.  That's one reason why BTC hasn't taken off as a currency.   But it's still good as something to speculate on,  and as a (very volatile) store of value.   When sig campaign payouts don't confirm,  it's frustrating...but when you get a 120% raise in 3 months it's very cool!

Why would it be any different than tulip bulbs as a store of value if you can't use it for payments?

Because it can be transferred from one person to another and to/from other cryptocurrencies, in a similar way to precious metals, as well as having a fixed and scarce supply.  A store of value is only worth as much as people continue to hold in it - gold would still be worth the same if people didn't buy jewelry made of it.

[aoluain]

Yes, i think this is the single biggest think which will hold bitcoin back.
Everyone expects their transactions to be processed in a reasonable timeframe.
Sadly for those micropayments which have a very very low fee attached they get
pushed to the back of the queue so to speak.

this was touched on over on the 'halving' thread where miners rewards are going to be halved in
Close to 3 years, which in turn will put pressure on the mining business, which will amplify the
Current problem i think.

Could we see tdansactions being held to ransom by a small group of mining pools who may very well
Control the whole business

[Emoclaw]

We know that. The miners know that. The developers know that. Bitcoin is a cash system, therefore it needs lower fees and faster transactions.
So maybe miners should reach a consensus sooner about scaling. But that's not gonna happen.

[jak3]

of course bitcoin has many advantages and disadvantages but we are here too only discuss about the confirmation time. developers are working hard enough to find a way out of this mess. or else you can simple trade altcoins instead of bitcoins. I just bought near about 10000 of a alt at just 0.01btc and when I transferred that to a friends wallet I payed only 0.01of that alt.  and the transaction was confirmed within 5minutes. so alts can be the best alternative right now

[btcforall777]

I concur, 100%.  That's one reason why BTC hasn't taken off as a currency.   But it's still good as something to speculate on,  and as a (very volatile) store of value.   When sig campaign payouts don't confirm,  it's frustrating...but when you get a 120% raise in 3 months it's very cool!

Why would it be any different than tulip bulbs as a store of value if you can't use it for payments?

Right now the blocks issue is just a "bug on the windshield" but its going to escalate once the media starts harping on it again. And personally i think thats wht the ETF's are not getting approved. SEC is waiting to see the outcome of this problem

[pixie85]

The fee changes dynamically that's the problem. If you send your transaction with moderate fee, which normally would get it to confirm after an hour and within that hour 10000 people decide to pay more, because they want it to confirm in 30 min and be above the average, you transaction will fall from the expected hour to 2 or more, up to infinity.

[jonald_fyookball]

I concur, 100%.  That's one reason why BTC hasn't taken off as a currency.   But it's still good as something to speculate on,  and as a (very volatile) store of value.   When sig campaign payouts don't confirm,  it's frustrating...but when you get a 120% raise in 3 months it's very cool!

Why would it be any different than tulip bulbs as a store of value if you can't use it for payments?

Right now the blocks issue is just a "bug on the windshield" but its going to escalate once the media starts harping on it again. And personally i think thats wht the ETF's are not getting approved. SEC is waiting to see the outcome of this problem

I really hope you are right -- but please think about what the user experience will be for someone trying bitcoin for the first time.  Imagine someone is trying it out -- they have to pay $1.50 or whatever, and their transaction is stuck for 24 hours... That is VERY different from when I got into bitcoin and I paid exactly $0 , and it was confirmed in 10 minutes. 

I am just afraid new people will be turned off.

[kryptqnick]

As the prices are going up, the systems are getting busier and transactions are not getting confirmed. This is a serious problem as the ratio of pending transactions is getting higher and higher.

Yes. And it's getting crazy! My transaction is STILL PENDING! It has been 47 hours now. I have never even heard about it taking so long. Did anybody have transaction pending for almost two days?

And the size of transaction fees is a good reason too. 0.0005 BTC for 0.01 transaction is a 5% fee, which you almost never see in any other currencies. With smaller transaction the percentage of fee is even higher. Together with other factors it makes BTC a really bad currency for small transactions, but for bigger transactions, like getting your salary, it's one of the best options, because it's global and fees are static.

I was sending 0.03btc with the fee around 0.0005, so it's less than 2% fee. However, my friend was recently sending some btc and payed around 1% fee. The transaction was confirmed in a couple of hours.

[megynacuna]

As the prices are going up, the systems are getting busier and transactions are not getting confirmed. This is a serious problem as the ratio of pending transactions is getting higher and higher.

Yes. And it's getting crazy! My transaction is STILL PENDING! It has been 47 hours now. I have never even heard about it taking so long. Did anybody have transaction pending for almost two days?

And the size of transaction fees is a good reason too. 0.0005 BTC for 0.01 transaction is a 5% fee, which you almost never see in any other currencies. With smaller transaction the percentage of fee is even higher. Together with other factors it makes BTC a really bad currency for small transactions, but for bigger transactions, like getting your salary, it's one of the best options, because it's global and fees are static.

I was sending 0.03btc with the fee around 0.0005, so it's less than 2% fee. However, my friend was recently sending some btc and payed around 1% fee. The transaction was confirmed in a couple of hours.

I agree with you on this OP, if these high fees and delayed confirmation times are not addressed Bitcoin risk being gradually unpopular. The beneficiaries will of course keep mute and watch their earnings grow but we all stand to loose as a community if Bitcoin dies.

[Lauda]

The fee changes dynamically that's the problem. If you send your transaction with moderate fee, which normally would get it to confirm after an hour and within that hour 10000 people decide to pay more, because they want it to confirm in 30 min and be above the average, you transaction will fall from the expected hour to 2 or more, up to infinity.

Do not use a moderate fee at times of high congestion.

Yes. And it's getting crazy! My transaction is STILL PENDING! It has been 47 hours now. I have never even heard about it taking so long. Did anybody have transaction pending for almost two days?

No, it is not crazy. You included an inadequate fee at a time of fair congestion and therefore your TX is taking unusually long. It is possible to create a transaction that should never confirm.

I was sending 0.03btc with the fee around 0.0005, so it's less than 2% fee. However, my friend was recently sending some btc and payed around 1% fee. The transaction was confirmed in a couple of hours.

The fee has nothing to do with the amount that you're sending. It's primarily related to the current recommended fee-rate in satoshi/byte and the size of your transaction.

I agree with you on this OP, if these high fees and delayed confirmation times are not addressed Bitcoin risk being gradually unpopular. The beneficiaries will of course keep mute and watch their earnings grow but we all stand to loose as a community if Bitcoin dies.

Untrue. This will happen in any altcoins as well, and you'd end up running in circles thinking that you could find scalability elsewhere.

[audaciousbeing]

Yesterday morning I wanted to sell some btc and get my local currency. The suggested transaction fee was something like 0.0005 which is (was) less than dollar. Anyway, I agreed and was waiting for the transaction to proceed. Mostly I get lucky and my transactions are confirmed in a few minutes. This one is still pending after more than 24 hours (it's been 30 hours already). I believe if nothing can be done with this, bitcoin will inevitably stop at some point and won't be able to become more popular. Waiting for money for dozens of hours is just too wrong.

Your fear is same thing as people who have commented including myself because this issue if it continues without any solution in sight, then it might mean a serious calamity for bitcoin. Yours is still fair compared to people who pay high transaction fees and still have to wait several hours for it to confirm this is just my own case. I dont know what will happen if government now start adopting bitcoin and the population multiplied in multiple folds then we need to start waiting for weeks for transaction to get confirmed or even pay transaction fees that is higher than the amount itself.

[iamTom123]

Yesterday morning I wanted to sell some btc and get my local currency. The suggested transaction fee was something like 0.0005 which is (was) less than dollar. Anyway, I agreed and was waiting for the transaction to proceed. Mostly I get lucky and my transactions are confirmed in a few minutes. This one is still pending after more than 24 hours (it's been 30 hours already). I believe if nothing can be done with this, bitcoin will inevitably stop at some point and won't be able to become more popular. Waiting for money for dozens of hours is just too wrong.

Your fear is same thing as people who have commented including myself because this issue if it continues without any solution in sight, then it might mean a serious calamity for bitcoin. Yours is still fair compared to people who pay high transaction fees and still have to wait several hours for it to confirm this is just my own case. I don't know what will happen if government now start adopting bitcoin and the population multiplied in multiple folds then we need to start waiting for weeks for transaction to get confirmed or even pay transaction fees that is higher than the amount itself.

The problem of confirmation delay is now haunting Bitcoin and is the focus of so many discussions on how to address this problem. Bitcoin is supposed to be smart and quick...and since what is happening is the opposite this can hinder the full growth potential of Bitcoin.

Can you just imagine if this is not a big problem and you have countries like Japan and Australia already recognizing Bitcoin? Bitcoin could have grown twice as it is now.

[talkbitcoin]

well there are a couple of things that i agree.
fees have gone up a lot, and with price rising the value of the fees we are paying in USD is a lot. there are a lot more transactions that there used to be and that makes the network "crowded" and block size issue is still there!

but you need to also know some stuff too.
amount of fee you keep repeating is meaningless without telling us how big (in bytes) your transaction is. or tell us the fee per byte. 0.0005 can be big or tiny considering the size.
also there is a possibility that your fee is high enough but your transaction was spending an unconfirmed transaction output. and this has been happening all week. people only look at the "big fee" and think it should confirm but their transaction is spending another transaction that has practically no fee and will never confirm.

[Qartersa]

Yesterday morning I wanted to sell some btc and get my local currency. The suggested transaction fee was something like 0.0005 which is (was) less than dollar. Anyway, I agreed and was waiting for the transaction to proceed. Mostly I get lucky and my transactions are confirmed in a few minutes. This one is still pending after more than 24 hours (it's been 30 hours already). I believe if nothing can be done with this, bitcoin will inevitably stop at some point and won't be able to become more popular. Waiting for money for dozens of hours is just too wrong.

Hi!

True, some transactions just take too long before it gets confirmed. It really is infuriating especially so when you are in dire need of cash! Bitcoin system should improve before its often times slow services take its toll on its popularity. As we all know, efficiency is key in lasting in this business. Without which, investors would not even bother expending money for this venture at all.   

[pearlmen]

Yesterday morning I wanted to sell some btc and get my local currency. The suggested transaction fee was something like 0.0005 which is (was) less than dollar. Anyway, I agreed and was waiting for the transaction to proceed. Mostly I get lucky and my transactions are confirmed in a few minutes. This one is still pending after more than 24 hours (it's been 30 hours already). I believe if nothing can be done with this, bitcoin will inevitably stop at some point and won't be able to become more popular. Waiting for money for dozens of hours is just too wrong.

In all sincerity this issue is really getting to a head that is a point where its becoming unbearable. In the past year where some of the advantages that is being discussed on the thread concerning bitcoin are how fast transactions are and how cheap they are compared to other means of transferring funds across borders but it seems these two important qualities are gradually turning into a myth and its not showing any sign of abatement. Something really needs to be done about this.

[naughty1]

Yesterday morning I wanted to sell some btc and get my local currency. The suggested transaction fee was something like 0.0005 which is (was) less than dollar. Anyway, I agreed and was waiting for the transaction to proceed. Mostly I get lucky and my transactions are confirmed in a few minutes. This one is still pending after more than 24 hours (it's been 30 hours already). I believe if nothing can be done with this, bitcoin will inevitably stop at some point and won't be able to become more popular. Waiting for money for dozens of hours is just too wrong.

It's not bad luck, it's the current problem with the blockchain system. Many transactions have not been processed for a long time, and now I have not seen any remedies. Waiting to make us feel depressed, however, we can not do anything else. Viabtc is a user support system, however, with the current number of transactions, I think they can not help many people.

[kryptqnick]

Yesterday morning I wanted to sell some btc and get my local currency. The suggested transaction fee was something like 0.0005 which is (was) less than dollar. Anyway, I agreed and was waiting for the transaction to proceed. Mostly I get lucky and my transactions are confirmed in a few minutes. This one is still pending after more than 24 hours (it's been 30 hours already). I believe if nothing can be done with this, bitcoin will inevitably stop at some point and won't be able to become more popular. Waiting for money for dozens of hours is just too wrong.

In all sincerity this issue is really getting to a head that is a point where its becoming unbearable. In the past year where some of the advantages that is being discussed on the thread concerning bitcoin are how fast transactions are and how cheap they are compared to other means of transferring funds across borders but it seems these two important qualities are gradually turning into a myth and its not showing any sign of abatement. Something really needs to be done about this.

Yes! If only some other good coin started signature campaigns and became as easy to use as bitcoin.. I've just checked my transaction - it is finally confirmed. I don't know when it happened but it took more than three days for it to get confirmed. As for the fee, I don't know whether it was adequate or not..210 satoshis per bit if I'm not mistaken. Well, at least it got confirmed.

[ekoice]

I concur, 100%.  That's one reason why BTC hasn't taken off as a currency.   But it's still good as something to speculate on,  and as a (very volatile) store of value.   When sig campaign payouts don't confirm,  it's frustrating...but when you get a 120% raise in 3 months it's very cool!

Yes,even i have not thought about that.After three months,if it gets confirmed we get 120% raise and in six months,240% raise, thats great.Let it take more time sorry more months to get confirmed.I dont bother.

[machinek20]

The confirmation time now is getting worse, many users already complained about it and this create a new problem which is the idea for bitcoin to have a hardfork, this is really the test for bitcoin and all users, if this keep happened then many people will abandon bitcoin and started to look for alt coin

[Netnox]

The confirmation time now is getting worse, many users already complained about it and this create a new problem which is the idea for bitcoin to have a hardfork, this is really the test for bitcoin and all users, if this keep happened then many people will abandon bitcoin and started to look for alt coin

The transaction fee needed for immediate confirmation has been going up for the past few months. Taking in to account the exchange rate spike, the fee in USD terms have gone up by almost 10 times during the last 12 months.

[PremiumCodeX]

Who suggested that fee to you? To me, blockchain(dot)info usually suggests few-dollar fees and with them my transactions are pretty fast (within minutes). I think, the solution is using higher fee. And to get back to the thread's question, I do not think that >1$ fees would hurt BTC's popularity because international bank transactions and "Oh sorry, I cannot give back in cash" type of situations cost more.

[Hazir]

I get than some people are put off by large, still growing fees and long confirmation times. I get it. I am angry sometimes too.

You need to understand:

1. Bitcoin is the biggest crypto with the largest user base. Other altcoins might be faster because: no one is using them and/or no one has incentive to spam their network.
2. Bitcoin can be better, it can be upgraded, both by on-scaling update and by growing off-chain networks.
3. Bitcoin may not be the fastest or the cheapest way to send money, but it is the greatest investment of our generation so far.

[pixie85]

The fee changes dynamically that's the problem. If you send your transaction with moderate fee, which normally would get it to confirm after an hour and within that hour 10000 people decide to pay more, because they want it to confirm in 30 min and be above the average, you transaction will fall from the expected hour to 2 or more, up to infinity.

Do not use a moderate fee at times of high congestion.

Fair advice, but this forces people to use sites like https://bitcoinfees.21.co/ on regular basis. That is at least until all wallets add a dynamic fee feature that will allow people to quickly choose between their moderate fee and the one that would offer a 1 block confirmation at that given time.

[btcforall777]

This problme will be fixed soon. Just a bug on the windshield. Don't make it into more than it is.

[CyberKuro]

Yesterday morning I wanted to sell some btc and get my local currency. The suggested transaction fee was something like 0.0005 which is (was) less than dollar. Anyway, I agreed and was waiting for the transaction to proceed. Mostly I get lucky and my transactions are confirmed in a few minutes. This one is still pending after more than 24 hours (it's been 30 hours already). I believe if nothing can be done with this, bitcoin will inevitably stop at some point and won't be able to become more popular. Waiting for money for dozens of hours is just too wrong.

In all sincerity this issue is really getting to a head that is a point where its becoming unbearable. In the past year where some of the advantages that is being discussed on the thread concerning bitcoin are how fast transactions are and how cheap they are compared to other means of transferring funds across borders but it seems these two important qualities are gradually turning into a myth and its not showing any sign of abatement. Something really needs to be done about this.

Yes! If only some other good coin started signature campaigns and became as easy to use as bitcoin.. I've just checked my transaction - it is finally confirmed. I don't know when it happened but it took more than three days for it to get confirmed. As for the fee, I don't know whether it was adequate or not..210 satoshis per bit if I'm not mistaken. Well, at least it got confirmed.

I have been through the same thing as my transaction take 4 days to be confirmed, maybe $2 fee or 120sat/bit for my transaction was adequate too, but it is really obstacle for new adopters seeing bitcoin transaction become more expensive and still have to wait for long time for sending bitcoin. Since the price skyrocket and fee increase as well, there's nothing we can do about that and let devs team and miners agreed to solve, but high fees very profitable for miners and they could choose to let it and spin out this problem due to block size won't ever reach an agreement for everyone.

[Dimelord]

I get than some people are put off by large, still growing fees and long confirmation times. I get it. I am angry sometimes too.

You need to understand:

1. Bitcoin is the biggest crypto with the largest user base. Other altcoins might be faster because: no one is using them and/or no one has incentive to spam their network.
2. Bitcoin can be better, it can be upgraded, both by on-scaling update and by growing off-chain networks.
3. Bitcoin may not be the fastest or the cheapest way to send money, but it is the greatest investment of our generation so far.

Valid point.Some alts may be fast because only a very few would be using them.That does not mean that they are better than  bitcoin.It has to be accepted that bitcoin has lost one of its salient feature fast transaction at  a low price. Bit still it has many other important features and it would be continuosly supported by people. 

[minhlong357200]

of course bitcoin has many advantages and disadvantages but we are here too only discuss about the confirmation time. developers are working hard enough to find a way out of this mess. or else you can simple trade altcoins instead of bitcoins. I just bought near about 10000 of a alt at just 0.01btc and when I transferred that to a friends wallet I payed only 0.01of that alt.  and the transaction was confirmed within 5minutes. so alts can be the best alternative right no

[Red-Apple]

of course bitcoin has many advantages and disadvantages but we are here too only discuss about the confirmation time. developers are working hard enough to find a way out of this mess.

developers have already found solutions for the "mess" and there are a couple of this solutions out there. the miners however seems to not want any of them so far.

or else you can simple trade altcoins instead of bitcoins.

trading altcoin has nothing to do with what we are talking about in here! LOL

I just bought near about 10000 of a alt at just 0.01btc

that only shows the altcoin that you bought has no demand so it is piss poor cheap.

and when I transferred that to a friends wallet I payed only 0.01of that alt. 

the fees have to be cheap, even a lot cheaper than that for an altcoin just to get people to use them. if it were any higher nobody would have ever made any transaction.

and the transaction was confirmed within 5minutes. so alts can be the best alternative right no

altcoins usually require a lot more confirmation to be considered "confirmed" because of the very high orphan rate most of them have and the risk of double spending.
but you are right, since many altcoins have a faster block generation, the 1 confirmation happens faster but the disadvantages of using altcoins are a lot more.

[PhucS]

I agree with your opinion, this is really a big obstacle that affects the popularity of bitcoin to everyone on the world. Transaction speed is too slow, it takes hours, daily and even more to confirm the transaction and of course, no one wants this. This will make it difficult for everyone. If you want to transaction quickly you need to raise fees, the miners are creating some pressure by applying quite high fees. I hope that this in the future will be resolved

[bartolo]

I get than some people are put off by large, still growing fees and long confirmation times. I get it. I am angry sometimes too.

You need to understand:

1. Bitcoin is the biggest crypto with the largest user base. Other altcoins might be faster because: no one is using them and/or no one has incentive to spam their network.
2. Bitcoin can be better, it can be upgraded, both by on-scaling update and by growing off-chain networks.
3. Bitcoin may not be the fastest or the cheapest way to send money, but it is the greatest investment of our generation so far.

Valid point.Some alts may be fast because only a very few would be using them.That does not mean that they are better than  bitcoin.It has to be accepted that bitcoin has lost one of its salient feature fast transaction at  a low price. Bit still it has many other important features and it would be continuosly supported by people.  

The point is that if you want to exchange to local currency like OP made, you have to use Bitcoin because it is the easiest coin to change for being the most popular. If one day there were the option to change local currency to an altcoin, many people would use the altcoin and so the fees would raise and it would collapse too and then everyone would go back to Bitcoin because the fees would have lowered.

[jovs]

No one has said that Bitcoin is perfect and transactions fees and speed are among the obstacles, I agree. At the moment seems that miners are making some kind of pressure by imposing rather high fees. But I think these are the problems that could be solved, if there is a will and still there are more advantages than disadvantages.

Bitcoin is not that perfect and it really do has issies faced by many users nowadays but i believe that biycoin is still a working progress. It does not want to disappoint it's users but ofcourse now that it is being used by many issues like this comes to life but i know that the people behind this will do their best to fix this.

[btc_angela]

No one has said that Bitcoin is perfect and transactions fees and speed are among the obstacles, I agree. At the moment seems that miners are making some kind of pressure by imposing rather high fees. But I think these are the problems that could be solved, if there is a will and still there are more advantages than disadvantages.

Bitcoin is not that perfect and it really do has issies faced by many users nowadays but i believe that biycoin is still a working progress. It does not want to disappoint it's users but ofcourse now that it is being used by many issues like this comes to life but i know that the people behind this will do their best to fix this.

Its has design flawed agreed. But what concerns me is the impending solution. This is still ongoing and both sides doesn't want to give up. The issue has been dragging us of the longest time now and I don't think any one of the solution will be implemented in the future. So many bitcoin users are complaining to the point that they are going to alt coins now and will only go back once the solution is implemented.

[jakelyson]

Its has design flawed agreed. But what concerns me is the impending solution. This is still ongoing and both sides doesn't want to give up. The issue has been dragging us of the longest time now and I don't think any one of the solution will be implemented in the future. So many bitcoin users are complaining to the point that they are going to alt coins now and will only go back once the solution is implemented.

Miners have not come to a consensus yet. And I have a feeling they are delaying this so that they can enjoy the high fees that come with long confirmation time. Only the miners will benefit in the solution being delayed.