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Author Topic: Do the Chinese really control the majority share of mining farms?  (Read 1489 times)
Jokoin
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May 18, 2017, 10:47:52 PM
 #1

Hi

So i've been told that - because the Chinese currently mine majority of ALL bitcoins that get mined, they have the ability to reverse transactions...

Being the avid supporter of BTC that I am, I obviously fought back claiming "BTC transactions cannot be reversed" etc.

So what's the deal, is this true?

Cheers
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May 18, 2017, 10:50:58 PM
 #2

they do mine the majority. if they started to censor transactions regularly i'm pretty sure the bitcoin community would be so outraged they'd find themselves mining nothing when they changed the proof of work.

i'd say they are vulnerable to political pressure because it's so centralized. they can't hide and they must be known to authorities. if that pressure spilt over into affecting bitcoin users again they'd be on their own.

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May 18, 2017, 11:04:21 PM
 #3

I think you're talking about %51 attack. You can google it as "%51 attack on bitcoin" and see the results. In this case, they can make what transaction they want orphan. Which means they have authority not to confirm any transaction they don't want so.

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May 18, 2017, 11:11:38 PM
 #4

I think you're talking about %51 attack. You can google it as "%51 attack on bitcoin" and see the results. In this case, they can make what transaction they want orphan. Which means they have authority not to confirm any transaction they don't want so.

Alright I see what you're saying - not such an issue for day-to-day users though I gather. In terms of reversing transactions... I still am unsure on that mind you. Any thoughts?
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May 18, 2017, 11:47:12 PM
 #5

I guess they really bitcoin farm in the chinese are really big farms are almost big farm miner are in there but doesnt mean they can control the value of the coin price they are controlling it but they can do it in a sense of mining share could easily minimize the bitcoin supply and storing it to the price of the bitcoin will really get affected.


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May 19, 2017, 01:12:43 PM
 #6

they do mine the majority. if they started to censor transactions regularly i'm pretty sure the bitcoin community would be so outraged they'd find themselves mining nothing when they changed the proof of work.

i'd say they are vulnerable to political pressure because it's so centralized. they can't hide and they must be known to authorities. if that pressure spilt over into affecting bitcoin users again they'd be on their own.

They are blocking scaling upgrade for quite some time and you don't see the bitcoin community outraged, many people actually defend them, if they start censoring transactions and price continues to increase people would go with it and many would even defend them saying it's their right to chose transactions.

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May 19, 2017, 02:38:26 PM
 #7

Hi

So i've been told that - because the Chinese currently mine majority of ALL bitcoins that get mined, they have the ability to reverse transactions...
They've not the ability. Because to reverse the transaction and you must control the majority of bitcoin nodes. I think if that's impossible right now. The spread of nodes around the world still keeps the decentralized aspect of bitcoin.
Being the avid supporter of BTC that I am, I obviously fought back claiming "BTC transactions cannot be reversed" etc.
So what's the deal, is this true?
Cheers
That's true.
https://blockchain.info/pools

BTCC, F2POOL, ANTPOOL, BITFURY

I think all of them are the Chinese pools

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May 19, 2017, 02:58:16 PM
 #8

Hi

So i've been told that - because the Chinese currently mine majority of ALL bitcoins that get mined, they have the ability to reverse transactions...

Being the avid supporter of BTC that I am, I obviously fought back claiming "BTC transactions cannot be reversed" etc.

So what's the deal, is this true?

Cheers
"The Chinese" are not one group.  Therefore while a large amount of hashrate is based in China, that doesn't mean that the pools which make up that hashrate necessarily collaborate with each other.

For example, F2Pool's leader Wang Chun conducted a poll and found that a majority of people viewing their Twitter wanted them to signal SegWit, so they decided to do that.

However, Antpool's leader Jihan Wu decided to signal for BU.  So they're in opposition and are definitely not collaborating.

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May 19, 2017, 03:06:13 PM
 #9

While a 51% attack is extremely unlikely in Bitcoin's current state, it would not fully compromise the network even if it were to occur, and if it did people would eventually switch pools to remove the attackers' power. 

As I understand it, there are only a few things people with 51% of the hash rate can do:

-Stop certain transactions from getting confirmations, thus making them invalid (if this actually happened the reports would be wide enough for people to switch pools);

-Reverse their own transactions.  They still can't fiddle with the already confirmed transactions or with people's wallets, but they can fiddle with the transactions that they send;

-Briefly prevent other miners from getting blocks?  I don't quite get the details of this part.

Anyway, while it would cause some temporary panic, it most likely wouldn't completely destroy Bitcoin's use.

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May 19, 2017, 03:09:36 PM
 #10

Hi

So i've been told that - because the Chinese currently mine majority of ALL bitcoins that get mined, they have the ability to reverse transactions...

Being the avid supporter of BTC that I am, I obviously fought back claiming "BTC transactions cannot be reversed" etc.

So what's the deal, is this true?

Cheers
So, yes, the miners in China are essentially the largest in the network and they do control a majority of the hashing power, and they're likely going to stay in a position like that for a long time unless other countries have miners that start to go hard with investing in infrastructure and getting their act together to try and beat the Chinese monopoly.

Some transactions can be blocked with enough hashing power, or "reversed", but it is unlikely for something like that to happen, yet.














 

 

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May 19, 2017, 03:12:49 PM
 #11

The Chinese dominance in the Bitcoin mining scene is overrated and blown up by the media. There are also big mining farms that are not situated

in China and some of these pools consist of people from different countries. The 51% attack is more of an issue with double spends and not a

reversal of transactions. Satoshi created Bitcoin in a way that miners are kept honest and if they do something to sabotage the network, then

they themselves will suffer.  Wink

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May 19, 2017, 03:14:37 PM
 #12

Use of bitcoin is increasing day by day. I have heard that btctrip.com is a fantastic good website to use. Completely the use of Bitcoin will not be destroyed.
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May 19, 2017, 03:15:53 PM
 #13

to answer the OP.. no

for instance
bitfury is managed internationally
Slushpool. people think is managed by "china". infact its a guy in thailand
even antpool has farms all over the world aswell as stratums around the world and offices around the world

calling mining "chinese" is like calling terrorists middle easterners.. yet its the west that wants to attack the east more

the problem is not race, but scripts wrote by racists,
reddit FUD of bitcoin is becoming worse than Fox News fud of real world affairs, in regards to racism and twisting narratives

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May 19, 2017, 03:19:48 PM
 #14

Hi

So i've been told that - because the Chinese currently mine majority of ALL bitcoins that get mined, they have the ability to reverse transactions...

Being the avid supporter of BTC that I am, I obviously fought back claiming "BTC transactions cannot be reversed" etc.

So what's the deal, is this true?

Cheers

Just because majority of mining farms located in China doesn't make them Bitcoin super power. They are not working as cartel, nor thus their government leading them. So it is just mere possibility or speculation to say that Chinese controlling Bitcoin blockchain. The Chinese miners are as similar to other miners working in different countries.

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May 19, 2017, 03:43:45 PM
 #15

China is the undisputed leader in Bitcoin mining. There are situated a lot of mining farms. The main reason for this is cheap electricity. 
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May 19, 2017, 04:26:44 PM
 #16

China is the undisputed leader in Bitcoin mining. There are situated a lot of mining farms. The main reason for this is cheap electricity.  

please stop reading the same reddit scripts. do some research on real stats!

electric is not the number one.
but speaking of electric
iceland, georgia have nice amount of asic farms due to good deals with electric companies.

asic manufacturers dont care much about electric.
they make a rig for under $500 but retail it for $2k. meaning for every rig sold they get to make a rig for that customer and either:
1. make 3 other rigs for themselves for free.. and then only have to pay electric with the bitcoin rewards from mining with the 3rigs

OR

2. make 2 other rigs for themselves for free.. have $500 spare to cover electric for months. meaning all rewards are 100% profit


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May 19, 2017, 04:34:30 PM
 #17

China is the undisputed leader in Bitcoin mining. There are situated a lot of mining farms. The main reason for this is cheap electricity.  

please stop reading the same reddit scripts. do some research on real stats!

electric is not the number one.
but speaking of electric
iceland, georgia have nice amount of asic farms due to good deals with electric companies.

asic manufacturers dont care much about electric.
they make a rig for under $500 but retail it for $2k. meaning for every rig sold they get to make a rig for that customer and either:
1. make 3 other rigs for themselves for free.. and then only have to pay electric with the bitcoin rewards from mining with the 3rigs

OR

2. make 2 other rigs for themselves for free.. have $500 spare to cover electric for months. meaning all rewards are 100% profit



You shouldn't argue about the China domination with a newbie who has the nickname chain_chain...lol

Joke aside it's like their domination in bitcoin trade ... which proved to be false.
Or in bitcoin comerce which is 0.

People like to think China is so great so doing much stuff big ..huuuuge pussy.
Reality is different.
But you't be able to talk sense into newbies post hunting here.

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May 19, 2017, 04:47:07 PM
 #18

Hi

So i've been told that - because the Chinese currently mine majority of ALL bitcoins that get mined, they have the ability to reverse transactions...

Being the avid supporter of BTC that I am, I obviously fought back claiming "BTC transactions cannot be reversed" etc.

So what's the deal, is this true?

Cheers
A majority of the large pools have a majority of their hashing power coming from Chinese sources, and a large amount of hashing power in general comes from China, presumably due to the cheap electricity, cheap storage and relative ease of accumulation of materials or labor from the local area.
Technically they could reverse transactions if they accumulated all of their effort in a single pool, but that is unlikely.
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May 20, 2017, 07:09:40 AM
 #19

Hi

So i've been told that - because the Chinese currently mine majority of ALL bitcoins that get mined, they have the ability to reverse transactions...

Being the avid supporter of BTC that I am, I obviously fought back claiming "BTC transactions cannot be reversed" etc.

So what's the deal, is this true?

Cheers
"The Chinese" are not one group.  Therefore while a large amount of hashrate is based in China, that doesn't mean that the pools which make up that hashrate necessarily collaborate with each other.

For example, F2Pool's leader Wang Chun conducted a poll and found that a majority of people viewing their Twitter wanted them to signal SegWit, so they decided to do that.

However, Antpool's leader Jihan Wu decided to signal for BU.  So they're in opposition and are definitely not collaborating.

Oh yeah that makes total sense, i'm kicking myself for not thinking into it a bit more myself...
jexphe2k
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May 20, 2017, 12:12:21 PM
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they do mine the majority. if they started to censor transactions regularly i'm pretty sure the bitcoin community would be so outraged they'd find themselves mining nothing when they changed the proof of work.

i'd say they are vulnerable to political pressure because it's so centralized. they can't hide and they must be known to authorities. if that pressure spilt over into affecting bitcoin users again they'd be on their own.

They are blocking scaling upgrade for quite some time and you don't see the bitcoin community outraged, many people actually defend them, if they start censoring transactions and price continues to increase people would go with it and many would even defend them saying it's their right to chose transactions.


In that case, BITCOIN would fall in control of only a few people? That doesn't confirm on original satoshi's design.  Huh  Huh
It can then be used to block or reject China's enemy country's transaction???  Economic sabotage! Grin
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