[Bitfunder] TAT.ASICMINER New Micro-share Passthrough

[ThickAsThieves]

Announcing a new way to invest in ASICMINER, the TAT.ASICMINER split-share passthrough. You'll find the full details below.

This is asset has already been approved to go live on Bitfunder later this week, but I wanted to pre-announce and give everyone an opportunity to ask questions. Thank you!

TAT.ASICMINER Asset, by ThickAsThieves.Investments

TAT.ASICMINER represents fractional shares of the ASICMINER Mining Company. ASICMINER is a market leader in the bitcoin mining industry, creating various mining equipment for sale, as well as running their own mining farm.

Proceeds from mining and sale of equipment are distributed to shareholders as weekly dividends. This asset represents fractional passthrough shares of the underlying asset, receiving a proportional amount of dividends for each share.

This is asset is being offered for the following purposes:
1. To provide an additional venue for investors to buy or sell ASICMINER shares more easily by splitting the shares.
2. To provide an easy way for ASICMINER shareholders to reinvest their dividends to maximize compounded interest opportunties.
3. To consolidate enough ASICMINER shares so as to reach 5,000 whole shares, thus increasing their inherent value with potential access to ASICMINER’s established and future board member benefits, namely any hardware opportunities ASICMINER provides exclusively to board members.

Shares
Each 1 share of TAT.ASICMINER represents 1/100th of a share of ASICMINER maintained and verified by either Friedcat or any officially designated exchange, and has rights to 1/100th of the dividends of a whole ASICMINER share.

Dividends
Each TAT.ASICMINER share has the right to 95% of its respective dividends. 5% will be retained for asset management fees. The amount of the dividend is defined as the same amount distributed by ASICMINER to the shares held by the issuer for this asset. Dividends will be paid within 48 hours or less of confirmed payments from ASICMINER.

Voting Rights
Any public votes presented by ASICMINER will be decided by the issuer for all asset shares at his own discretion.

Quantity and Source of Shares
Shares cannot be imported or exported by shareholders, but can be freely bought and sold. Shares may be imported at will by the issuer alone.

Additional Dividends or Benefits from Board Member Status
Once the passthrough reaches 5,000 whole ASICMINER shares (500,000 split shares) it may receive a board member seat. If board member status is confirmed, and Friedcat follows through with the plan to give each board member a trial ASICMINER mining board, any income generated will be shares as follows:

85% of the mining income will be paid out to the shareholders of TAT.ASICMINER on the same weekly dividend schedule ASICMINER currently uses. At the discretion of the TAT.ASICMINER issuer, these extra dividends may be distributed sooner.

NOTE: This passthrough exists on both Bitfunder.com and BTCT.co, but acts as only ONE asset, and is thus only eligible to share any board member benefits as ONE seat, among ALL TAT.ASICMINER shareholders.

Reserved Rights
Issuer reserves the following rights.
1. To change schedule of dividends to be in line with any changes in schedule the underlying asset may enact.
2. To change the % of board mining profits withheld if expenses, like electricity, are not covered by the 15% portion being withheld.
3. To make changes to this contract that represent the best interests of its shareholders
4. To correct and clarify any gross errors or details herein that may prove to be open to misinterpretation.
5. To limit the total amount of shares allowed within the asset once it has reached 5000 whole shares (500,000 split shares).

Dissolution
In the event that the issuer chooses to, or is forced to, close this asset for any reason, the following methods may be used for dissolution in any combination:
1. A new operator may be vetted and chosen by ThickAsThieves to take over control of the asset.
2. Shares may be bought back from shareholders at a reasonable market value.
3. Shares may be converted to direct whole shares and redistributed to shareholder e-mail accounts with Friedcat.
4. Shares may be converted into equivalent whole shares on any other existing ASICMINER passthrough or exchange and redistributed to shareholders.

Issuer Info
ThickAsThieves is a Tier 5 BitFunder trader, and has offered identity information privately to BitFunder as a gesture of good faith, and an avenue for emergency contact.

A “dead man’s switch” will be implemented in order to pass control of this asset to a safe secondary operator in the case of the issuer’s untimely demise or hospitalization.

ThickAsThieves makes no guarantees in the case of unexpected behavior of the underlying asset company or the decisions of ASICMINER and/or BITFOUNTAIN. This is only a passthrough, and the actions of ASICMINER will drive the definition of this asset in kind.

IRC: on Freenode, ThickAsThieves
E-mail: tat.investments -at- gmail.com

[inh]

Looking forward to this so I can take my G.ASICMINER-PT dividends and buy some of your split shares until I have enough for a full share. 

[ThickAsThieves]

Looking forward to this so I can take my G.ASICMINER-PT dividends and buy some of your split shares until I have enough for a full share. 

This is a great way to use the asset. Buying the split shares allows for easy reinvestment, and thus compounded interest.

[talnted]

Great idea, how many shares are available at the IPO?

[ThickAsThieves]

I'll probably release shares in waves, while keeping an eye on demand. I am also initiating one or two more bulk deals before the IPO. Expect 20,000+ fractional shares to be available, but I'll be working with a much larger pool than that.

[furuknap]

I support the idea, in fact I think I was the one to propose it, but I can not see why this would cost anyone 5% of dividends. Both the regular PTs have waived their dividend fees, and I'm fairly certain the effort involved in issuing one command per week isn't worth those 5%. If you get half the size of the BTCT PT, that'll be over ฿3 per week for essentially issuing one command.

When I suggested the idea, including a fee, I was thinking something along the lines of 0.1% upwards limited to ฿1 per week or something like that.

The same goes for the other 100PT that was announced on BTCT, BTW.

Finally, I dislike the idea of running a mining operation as part of a PT, but that's solely a personal preference in that I like to keep my interests 'clean' from additional variance whenever possible. I would much prefer that the board, if received, would go into a separate stock.

.b

[talnted]

I support the idea, in fact I think I was the one to propose it, but I can not see why this would cost anyone 5% of dividends. Both the regular PTs have waived their dividend fees, and I'm fairly certain the effort involved in issuing one command per week isn't worth those 5%. If you get half the size of the BTCT PT, that'll be over ฿3 per week for essentially issuing one command.

When I suggested the idea, including a fee, I was thinking something along the lines of 0.1% upwards limited to ฿1 per week or something like that.

The same goes for the other 100PT that was announced on BTCT, BTW.

Finally, I dislike the idea of running a mining operation as part of a PT, but that's solely a personal preference in that I like to keep my interests 'clean' from additional variance whenever possible. I would much prefer that the board, if received, would go into a separate stock.

.b

I completely agree with everything mentioned above

[ThickAsThieves]

I support the idea, in fact I think I was the one to propose it, but I can not see why this would cost anyone 5% of dividends. Both the regular PTs have waived their dividend fees, and I'm fairly certain the effort involved in issuing one command per week isn't worth those 5%. If you get half the size of the BTCT PT, that'll be over ฿3 per week for essentially issuing one command.
When I suggested the idea, including a fee, I was thinking something along the lines of 0.1% upwards limited to ฿1 per week or something like that.
The same goes for the other 100PT that was announced on BTCT, BTW.
Finally, I dislike the idea of running a mining operation as part of a PT, but that's solely a personal preference in that I like to keep my interests 'clean' from additional variance whenever possible. I would much prefer that the board, if received, would go into a separate stock.
.b

Thank for your comments, I'm glad you asked about these points!

Management Fees
5% is a very little when you consider the work, responsibility, and risk at play here. Even if we build this asset up to 500,000 fractional shares  (enough for a board seat), the management fee would likely end up being worth roughly $800-$1200 per month. That is not very much considering that would also mean being responsible for more than $500,000 worth of assets.

The fact is that doing this work responsibly does take time. If you look at the majority of asset operators in the cryptocoin world, I think you would agree that most do a poor job of maintaining its growth, and an even worse job of communicating with shareholders. That is not how I do things. Seeing the laggard laggard and scammy ways of other operators is partly why I am getting into this game, because I know I can play it better, and I know shareholders deserve better. If you want a quality operator, you must expect for that operator to be compensated fairly.

This asset is not a way for me to make a million bucks, it is largely a way for me to further make a name for myself and allow me to create new opportunities for myself and other bitcoiners.

You must consider that in the case of Burnside's ASICMINER PT, he gets a lot more money from trading fees, more than he could ever get from a single-digit management fee. He was forced into forgoing his management fees in order to stay competitive with the competing passthrough at Bitfunder. Now, Bitfunder's incentives are similar as well. DeadTerra is a big part of Bitfunder and Ukyo's success, and the more trading that happens at Bitfunder, the more they both benefit. This is why you see no management fees, both of those exchanges have much larger alternative incentives. Neither is doing it strictly for the community.

Mining
I do have experience mining, and run a modest litecoin mining farm currently. The only reason it is a part of this asset is because Friedcat mentioned he may provide such a benefit to board members. I would like to share that benefit with shareholders when it finally happens, as well as any other tangible benefits that can reasonably be allowed to be shared. I suspect most people would disagree with you about splitting a board into a new asset. Plus, it's only one board, and not likely to be worth a stand-alone asset effort.

[burnside]

I support the idea, in fact I think I was the one to propose it, but I can not see why this would cost anyone 5% of dividends. Both the regular PTs have waived their dividend fees, and I'm fairly certain the effort involved in issuing one command per week isn't worth those 5%. If you get half the size of the BTCT PT, that'll be over ฿3 per week for essentially issuing one command.

When I suggested the idea, including a fee, I was thinking something along the lines of 0.1% upwards limited to ฿1 per week or something like that.

The same goes for the other 100PT that was announced on BTCT, BTW.

Finally, I dislike the idea of running a mining operation as part of a PT, but that's solely a personal preference in that I like to keep my interests 'clean' from additional variance whenever possible. I would much prefer that the board, if received, would go into a separate stock.

.b

I posted on the other 1/100 PT in response to a similar question regarding fees.  Running the ASICMINER-PT has been very time consuming, way more so than I originally anticipated.  If I were not seeing benefit at the BTC-TC level (mind share and trade volume) for my efforts, it would be very difficult to justify to the wife why I'm responding to PM's all night.    DeaDTerra's free PT was the first of it's kind, and has put downward pressure on ASICMINER-PT to be competitive, but with these 1/100 PT's I think they're providing a unique product, and you definitely want to keep the manager in a PT motivated.

Cheers.

[furuknap]

I support the idea, in fact I think I was the one to propose it, but I can not see why this would cost anyone 5% of dividends. Both the regular PTs have waived their dividend fees, and I'm fairly certain the effort involved in issuing one command per week isn't worth those 5%. If you get half the size of the BTCT PT, that'll be over ฿3 per week for essentially issuing one command.

When I suggested the idea, including a fee, I was thinking something along the lines of 0.1% upwards limited to ฿1 per week or something like that.

The same goes for the other 100PT that was announced on BTCT, BTW.

Finally, I dislike the idea of running a mining operation as part of a PT, but that's solely a personal preference in that I like to keep my interests 'clean' from additional variance whenever possible. I would much prefer that the board, if received, would go into a separate stock.

.b

I posted on the other 1/100 PT in response to a similar question regarding fees.  Running the ASICMINER-PT has been very time consuming, way more so than I originally anticipated.  If I were not seeing benefit at the BTC-TC level (mind share and trade volume) for my efforts, it would be very difficult to justify to the wife why I'm responding to PM's all night.    DeaDTerra's free PT was the first of it's kind, and has put downward pressure on ASICMINER-PT to be competitive, but with these 1/100 PT's I think they're providing a unique product, and you definitely want to keep the manager in a PT motivated.

Cheers.

I understand it takes some work to cope with requests, but c'mon... 5% lost in profit is a massive cost over the lifetime of a shareholding for people that buy and hold. Traders, perhaps the true audience for this asset, wouldn't mind, so they would essentially be trading this like there's no tomorrow. The burden of activity would come from those, not from the people who want to invest long-term.

In essence, this is a 5% tax on investors to fund traders. Instead, impose a ridiculous fee on transfers and other activities that actually cost time. Then, traders would pay for what actually takes time while longer term investors could get away with a fee that resembles their burden on the operator.

I like the way you have motioned this for your PT; one transfer per month is free, after that, you pay.

.b

[burnside]

I support the idea, in fact I think I was the one to propose it, but I can not see why this would cost anyone 5% of dividends. Both the regular PTs have waived their dividend fees, and I'm fairly certain the effort involved in issuing one command per week isn't worth those 5%. If you get half the size of the BTCT PT, that'll be over ฿3 per week for essentially issuing one command.

When I suggested the idea, including a fee, I was thinking something along the lines of 0.1% upwards limited to ฿1 per week or something like that.

The same goes for the other 100PT that was announced on BTCT, BTW.

Finally, I dislike the idea of running a mining operation as part of a PT, but that's solely a personal preference in that I like to keep my interests 'clean' from additional variance whenever possible. I would much prefer that the board, if received, would go into a separate stock.

.b

I posted on the other 1/100 PT in response to a similar question regarding fees.  Running the ASICMINER-PT has been very time consuming, way more so than I originally anticipated.  If I were not seeing benefit at the BTC-TC level (mind share and trade volume) for my efforts, it would be very difficult to justify to the wife why I'm responding to PM's all night.    DeaDTerra's free PT was the first of it's kind, and has put downward pressure on ASICMINER-PT to be competitive, but with these 1/100 PT's I think they're providing a unique product, and you definitely want to keep the manager in a PT motivated.

Cheers.

I understand it takes some work to cope with requests, but c'mon... 5% lost in profit is a massive cost over the lifetime of a shareholding for people that buy and hold. Traders, perhaps the true audience for this asset, wouldn't mind, so they would essentially be trading this like there's no tomorrow. The burden of activity would come from those, not from the people who want to invest long-term.

In essence, this is a 5% tax on investors to fund traders. Instead, impose a ridiculous fee on transfers and other activities that actually cost time. Then, traders would pay for what actually takes time while longer term investors could get away with a fee that resembles their burden on the operator.

I like the way you have motioned this for your PT; one transfer per month is free, after that, you pay.

.b

I think the time breakdown for me is very roughly:

30% Answering PM's asking about ASICMINER-PT and ASICMINER.
30% Reading threads and responding.  (kind of PR. mostly just keeping facts straight.)
30% Managing transfers.
10% Moving divs when they come in, checking to make sure the right amount came in, scheduling divs, manually issuing divs that are screwed up because they're mid-transfer with Friedcat. 

The first two categories are difficult to value, and yet are valuable to all investors in your asset. 

The other interesting consideration here is that long-term investors when they get to 100-ish shares can sell them and buy up to a long-term holding situation direct with ASICMINER or one of the 1 to 1 PT's.

[furuknap]

I think the time breakdown for me is very roughly:

30% Answering PM's asking about ASICMINER-PT and ASICMINER.
30% Reading threads and responding.  (kind of PR. mostly just keeping facts straight.)
30% Managing transfers.
10% Moving divs when they come in, checking to make sure the right amount came in, scheduling divs, manually issuing divs that are screwed up because they're mid-transfer with Friedcat. 

The first two categories are difficult to value, and yet are valuable to all investors in your asset. 

The other interesting consideration here is that long-term investors when they get to 100-ish shares can sell them and buy up to a long-term holding situation direct with ASICMINER or one of the 1 to 1 PT's.

I would say the first two are valuable to the asset management more than to investors. News about AM is important to investors, and I don't think that should be in the hands of any PT.

There's by far enough information about both AM and for PTs in general.

The information parts of your estimate can to some extent be handled far better with some information management (and, with all due respect, both friedcat and you suck in that area). A web page, a FAQ link (here are the 5 most asked questions and their answers to which you can refer), and a thread here should reduce the amount of work significantly.

To me, the point of the idea is to support two scenarios first and foremost. One is fractional share DRIP, the other is to lower the barrier for new investors and better utilize investment potential. The way I see these offerings now, they are primarily targeting traders, which is fine, but it does so at the cost of buy-and-hold investors.

We'll see how the market reacts, but at these rates, I wouldn't buy. I'm in this for the long haul, though, so trading is more or less out of the question, even if I do sell and rebuy at times.

.b

[burnside]

I would say the first two are valuable to the asset management more than to investors. News about AM is important to investors, and I don't think that should be in the hands of any PT.

There's by far enough information about both AM and for PTs in general.

The information parts of your estimate can to some extent be handled far better with some information management (and, with all due respect, both friedcat and you suck in that area). A web page, a FAQ link (here are the 5 most asked questions and their answers to which you can refer), and a thread here should reduce the amount of work significantly.

To me, the point of the idea is to support two scenarios first and foremost. One is fractional share DRIP, the other is to lower the barrier for new investors and better utilize investment potential. The way I see these offerings now, they are primarily targeting traders, which is fine, but it does so at the cost of buy-and-hold investors.

We'll see how the market reacts, but at these rates, I wouldn't buy. I'm in this for the long haul, though, so trading is more or less out of the question, even if I do sell and rebuy at times.

.b

On the first two, imagine if a PT operator didn't respond to requests for a while.  Word gets out, liquidity disappears, no one wants to buy in anymore, leaving current shareholders no way out if something comes up and they need cash.  That's the sort of value I was seeing for existing shareholders.

OT somewhat, but I appreciate your frank take on the information management side of things.  I don't really want to put up a whole separate web page, but I've been thinking I need to shift more info from the OP on the forums into the details tab on the exchange.  Thoughts for other areas of improvement?  (maybe shoot me a PM)  I kind of like the idea of deferring to your blog. 

Cheers.

[furuknap]

On the first two, imagine if a PT operator didn't respond to requests for a while.  Word gets out, liquidity disappears, no one wants to buy in anymore, leaving current shareholders no way out if something comes up and they need cash.  That's the sort of value I was seeing for existing shareholders.

Well, there's a difference between wanking and pulling your dick off. Complete lack of response is not the alternative to writing the same response a bunch of times because the information isn't easily available.

Right now, and I fear this may be the case quickly for the 100 PTs too, information and answers are burried in hundreds of pages of forum discussions. Shooting a PM to the operator is much easier and certainly contributes to the burden.

However, if there was a single place that contained the bulk of most frequently asked questions, a list of resources, references to important forum posts, etc, the operator can refer communication to that place. Whether that's a maintained forum post, a web page, or something else is beside the point, but it would probably help tremendously in keeping communication needs in check.

OT somewhat, but I appreciate your frank take on the information management side of things.  I don't really want to put up a whole separate web page, but I've been thinking I need to shift more info from the OP on the forums into the details tab on the exchange.  Thoughts for other areas of improvement?  (maybe shoot me a PM)  I kind of like the idea of deferring to your blog. 

As much as I appreciate that, it's a bit beyond the 100/PT discussion, so I'll shoot you an email.

.b

[burnside]

Well, there's a difference between wanking and pulling your dick off. Complete lack of response is not the alternative to writing the same response a bunch of times because the information isn't easily available.

Right now, and I fear this may be the case quickly for the 100 PTs too, information and answers are burried in hundreds of pages of forum discussions. Shooting a PM to the operator is much easier and certainly contributes to the burden.

However, if there was a single place that contained the bulk of most frequently asked questions, a list of resources, references to important forum posts, etc, the operator can refer communication to that place. Whether that's a maintained forum post, a web page, or something else is beside the point, but it would probably help tremendously in keeping communication needs in check.

LOL.   

[ThickAsThieves]

I have yet to have to deal with a barrage of PMs, but I have to imagine that if I were frequently asked certain questions, I'd be prone to creating a FAQ page in response.   

[ThickAsThieves]

We are now live!

5000 shares will be offered in first wave. More shares will be made available according to demand.

https://bitfunder.com/asset/TAT.ASICMINER

[arklan]

very interesting. my btc is currently ear-marked for a AM usb miner or 5, but i'm very happy to see this as well.

[jjdub7]

Hey TAT, when will the first dividends be passed?  What is our starting date?  Because DeadTerra's shares got the 5/2 div's.  Just wondering, thanks man.

[ThickAsThieves]

Hey TAT, when will the first dividends be passed?  What is our starting date?  Because DeadTerra's shares got the 5/2 div's.  Just wondering, thanks man.

Dividends will start right after the next time Friedcat issues them, which should be next Wednesday/Thursday.

I'm committed to passing that dividend to shareholders as quickly as possible, but please note that I have built in 48-hour padding to the contract just in case something unexpected slows me down.

Also, if Friedcat issues any extra "surprise" dividends, those will be passed on the same way.