Crypto and Family Separation

[cshelswell]

Wondered if anyone might be able to offer some advice here.

I have some coins in a couple of formats / BTC + some alts. I'm currently separating with my wife, who has also taken our 2 young girls. That's all getting worked out through an annoyingly messy (unnecessary, IMO) dialogue between lawyers.

The question I have is; I worked for BTC back in 2103, when it started to drop I stopped getting paid via BTC but continued to trade. I managed to make, mostly, good decisions and have increased what I had. I spent some taking my family on holiday etc, made those back so that aspect has been pretty good. I'm wondering now the best way of protecting those assets as I'd prefer to spend what I have on securing my future a bit and making it possible to support my kids, whether that's now or in the future.

Basically - it'd be my preference not to give my ex 50% now when I think I could use them more wisely to benefit myself and my children.

Sorry I don't know if that's a bit vague but any advice as to the best procedure would be greatly received  

[botany]

The legally correct thing to do (based on the law in most countries) would be to give your ex 50% of all assets, including your crypto stash.
If it was some other asset, you could have (with your wife's concurrence) transferred them to a trust in the name of your children. With crypto, I am not so sure.

[audaciousbeing]

Wondered if anyone might be able to offer some advice here.

I have some coins in a couple of formats / BTC + some alts. I'm currently separating with my wife, who has also taken our 2 young girls. That's all getting worked out through an annoyingly messy (unnecessary, IMO) dialogue between lawyers.

The question I have is; I worked for BTC back in 2103, when it started to drop I stopped getting paid via BTC but continued to trade. I managed to make, mostly, good decisions and have increased what I had. I spent some taking my family on holiday etc, made those back so that aspect has been pretty good. I'm wondering now the best way of protecting those assets as I'd prefer to spend what I have on securing my future a bit and making it possible to support my kids, whether that's now or in the future.

Basically - it'd be my preference not to give my ex 50% now when I think I could use them more wisely to benefit myself and my children.

Sorry I don't know if that's a bit vague but any advice as to the best procedure would be greatly received  

The issue of giving your ex certain percentage of your assets is if those assets are recognizable by law because I am sure if you are trading in cocaine and your ex knew about it, she won't ask for some powder as a form of settlement the same thing with bitcoin. If the law does not recognise it in your place of abode, then it does not exist in the legal sense and what does not exist, cannot be shared under any circumstances.

[gentlemand]

If you don't declare all of your assets during the settlement, and it well and truly doesn't matter what they are, then more than likely you'll be breaking the law where you are.

The issue of giving your ex certain percentage of your assets is if those assets are recognizable by law because I am sure if you are trading in cocaine and your ex knew about it, she won't ask for some powder as a form of settlement the same thing with bitcoin. If the law does not recognise it in your place of abode, then it does not exist in the legal sense and what does not exist, cannot be shared under any circumstances.

Utter rubbish. Bitcoiners need to let go of the idea that they're immune from conventional legalities or it'll bite them badly eventually.

[mrcash02]

Probably Bitcoin isn't regulamented there, I believe Bitcoin or any other Crypto-Currency doesn't really exist for the laws of the country.

It could be considered a non real currency, like the money people have in online game accounts and when people get divorced they don't share 50% of game's money... I think you don't need to give any satoshi to your wife if you don't want, but you need to confirm it with your attorney.

[Jayshree85]

It is very simple that if you wife knows about cryptocurrency and its functions then you can just give her share which is 50% but it includes your children share also so you can give 25% out of 50% of that share to her and keep balance 25% of share on a secure wallet for future of your child, so like this you can secure your children future and clear your wife offer also.

[olushakes]

Reading from what others have commented, I still feel since divorce is a legal proceeding, then everything that needs to be shared by the splitting couple must have legal back otherwise its does not hold. And there are several court cases even in the USA that does not recognise bitcoin as a form of money and relying on that precedence if the law of a particular country does not accepts bitcoin then OP does not owe her any shit.

[Rabber]

I'll just toss a thought out here:

If you have most of your bitcoin in cold storage and you lose your passphrase, then technically you no longer have it. I suppose you could provide the address where that bitcoin is located so it can be monitored by your wife or her lawyer. Say 5 or 10 years down the road when the value is much higher you suddenly remember or find the passphrase then you can give her 50%.

[gentlemand]

Probably Bitcoin isn't regulamented there, I believe Bitcoin or any other Crypto-Currency doesn't really exist for the laws of the country.

It could be considered a non real currency, like the money people have in online game accounts and when people get divorced they don't share 50% of game's money... I think you don't need to give any satoshi to your wife if you don't want, but you need to confirm it with your attorney.

Wrong. It's worth money, therefore it must be declared.

It doesn't matter what you have. If you had 1 million dollars' worth of WWE memorabilia that's a saleable asset. It's not a currency either.

[mrcash02]

Probably Bitcoin isn't regulamented there, I believe Bitcoin or any other Crypto-Currency doesn't really exist for the laws of the country.

It could be considered a non real currency, like the money people have in online game accounts and when people get divorced they don't share 50% of game's money... I think you don't need to give any satoshi to your wife if you don't want, but you need to confirm it with your attorney.

Wrong. It's worth money, therefore it must be declared.

It doesn't matter what you have. If you had 1 million dollars' worth of WWE memorabilia that's a saleable asset. It's not a currency either.

Well, I'm not sure, you can be right, but I'm not convinced about it yet.

"It's worth money" is something that can generate some discussion about. Anything tradeable that people have interest can be worth money, physical or virtual. Using the example I have an online game account with many valuable items that people in real life would like to buy for fiat, should I declare my game account? And must I share my game items with the divorced woman?

And if I have Bitcoins (not declared), must I share it with the divorced woman?

[CoinHoarder]

I agree that crypto is worth money, and therefore an asset. Technically, you are supposed to declare 100% of your assets in the divorce proceedings. This is one of the reasons I will probably never get married...

However, I'm not sure exactly how this would be enforceable. It would be pretty easy to "lose" your private key (encrypt it somewhere). Even that may be a little extreme, as it's not like they are going to come in and confiscate all your possessions and scrub your hard drives looking for cryptocurrencies.

Since she knows you own cryptocurrencies, you could give her a percentage smaller than 50%... say 10% to 25% so that it doesn't cost you more in legal fees, since she is surely to try and come after at least some crypto if she knows you have it. If she doesn't know too much about how successful you have been with crypto or didn't follow it too closely, then she might think 10% to 25% is actually 50% and not cause any trouble.

In summary, technically you are supposed to give her 50%, but you could probably get away with not giving her 50%. It is likely illegal, but the chances of getting caught and/or enforced are probably slim to none.

[botany]

Well, I'm not sure, you can be right, but I'm not convinced about it yet.

"It's worth money" is something that can generate some discussion about. Anything tradeable that people have interest can be worth money, physical or virtual. Using the example I have an online game account with many valuable items that people in real life would like to buy for fiat, should I declare my game account? And must I share my game items with the divorced woman?

And if I have Bitcoins (not declared), must I share it with the divorced woman?

You should put a value to it and see if your wife can agree to it.
She will probably take the sofa and allow you to keep your game account. Divorces are messy, but I do suppose your partner will take rational decisions.

[cshelswell]

Thanks for the advice guys. Rationality hasn't been one of the words I'd have used so far

I get the 50 / 50 thing. I guess you just need to decide a value on those assets and I imagine that would be the value of what you had at time of separation. i.e. she can't take profits I've made since she left, least I think that's how it works here.

Cheers

[Images21]

Thanks for the advice guys. Rationality hasn't been one of the words I'd have used so far

I get the 50 / 50 thing. I guess you just need to decide a value on those assets and I imagine that would be the value of what you had at time of separation. i.e. she can't take profits I've made since she left, least I think that's how it works here.

Cheers

That was a hard decision but anyway good luck on your new life man. And always take care of your kids.

[gentlemand]

I get the 50 / 50 thing. I guess you just need to decide a value on those assets and I imagine that would be the value of what you had at time of separation. i.e. she can't take profits I've made since she left, least I think that's how it works here.

Find a lawyer. No one here knows anything.

The value at the time of separation is in the past. The value at the time of the financial settlement is what they're going to look at.

[darkangel11]

If you don't declare all of your assets during the settlement, and it well and truly doesn't matter what they are, then more than likely you'll be breaking the law where you are.

The issue of giving your ex certain percentage of your assets is if those assets are recognizable by law because I am sure if you are trading in cocaine and your ex knew about it, she won't ask for some powder as a form of settlement the same thing with bitcoin. If the law does not recognise it in your place of abode, then it does not exist in the legal sense and what does not exist, cannot be shared under any circumstances.

Utter rubbish. Bitcoiners need to let go of the idea that they're immune from conventional legalities or it'll bite them badly eventually.

Right. First of all it depends on the circumstances, if his wife left him (to live with another guy for instance) and it wasn't his fault, he shouldn't share with her. That's common sense.

Now, if you have the coins and did not exchange to fiat, you're untouchable. There's no proof you own any and even if she says so, you can deny it. It's her word against yours.
If you want to share, you can give her any number you like, because they won't be able to prove you own more than you're declaring.

[Flying Hellfish]

I guess there is also another way to look at this.

Try setting a good example for your daughters.  You will be able to look them in the eyes one day telling them the truth that you manned up and did the right thing.

Maybe, just maybe your example can help them set higher standards for whom they wish to spend their lives with in the future.

To you shes the ex, to your girls shes mommy...

[cshelswell]

Got the lawyer sorted

But yes my number one concern is my daughters and if I can keep some of my coins I can hopefully put something aside for them that I know is going to them.

Thanks for all the advice / support

[classicsucks]

I would advise you to worry less about the law and think about how your wife has treated you and the family. Often times wives will get greedy and just try to get as much of your assets as they can, and then spend it on their new man instead of the kids. If she is taking the kids away, you need to make sure you will get to spend time with them. After a year or two you will see the importance of your rights as a father. Since she has hired a lawyer it likely means she will try to get everything in her favor,

Often what happens is the man holds the money hostage and the woman holds the children hostage. So the coin might be your negotiating leverage to see your kids.  I know it doesn't sound fair, but it's just the way things happen.

Of course if she is a good person she deserves to have enough money to live comfortably and care for your children. 

I don't think bitcoin is a long term asset for the next generation. It will likely be replaced with a better crypto in the next 20 years.

[RedNovember]

I would advise you to worry less about the law and think about how your wife has treated you and the family. Often times wives will get greedy and just try to get as much of your assets as they can, and then spend it on their new man instead of the kids. If she is taking the kids away, you need to make sure you will get to spend time with them. After a year or two you will see the importance of your rights as a father. Since she has hired a lawyer it likely means she will try to get everything in her favor,

Often what happens is the man holds the money hostage and the woman holds the children hostage. So the coin might be your negotiating leverage to see your kids. 

Hoepfully OPs separation will be amicable but if not you make some great points.

Maybe OP can say he lost it when exchange went down? Or say you lost it another way by getting scammed

You definitely want to protect yourself in the event the wife is vindictive.

A woman is taking your kids from you dude that's messed but maybe it was the right thing I don't know the specifics