The End Is Near

[wormbog]

obviously the OP is giving up, oh well. more coins to go around for new adopters, no loss there then.

I should repeat, Bitcoin failed, other altcoins didn't.

You have come to herald the coming of your new cryptocoin, but keep in mind: you can't be both John the Baptist *and* Jesus.

[(A)social]

the end of FIAT is near!

yeah!

[Kluge]

It should probably be noted that Bitcoin was released as an extremely incomplete product, and the default Bitcoin client's made a lot of progress over its earlier releases. It's like writing off computers because it's a two-ton machine which takes a small warehouse to hold. Kickstarter's probably a fair example, but I've never heard of Pinterest, so I'm either under a rock, or it's not as popular as you think.

Bitcoin has one of the biggest hurdles of ANY venture - and that's education and social acceptance. It's the hallmark of a revolutionary product. Bitcoin is an educational challenge because there's a LOT going behind the scenes. Few people really know the mechanics of how USDs are made and regulated, but the government's gone around that obstacle with their product by just declaring it the only legal tender. We don't understand it, we just use it - because in most cases, we have to.

Bitcoin has a particularly bad time handling education, because when it was created, there was no press coverage. Compare that to something like "Mint" coins from Canada, where everyone figured they might encounter it since it came from the government, and the press started off by explaining what it was and how it might affect us. The press has started doing that with Bitcoin, but generally not in "everyman" media. There wasn't that initial hype -- media outlets didn't spend a few days talking about the implications of Bitcoin and how it worked, so it's really been all on the devs, businessmen, and evangelists. Bitcoin didn't really have a honeymoon period in the media, it just has a writer every now and then finding it interesting how dramatic some of the financial numbers are, either in the exchanges, or with illegal goods - and every now and then, a talking head will go on about how Bitcoin's going to enable criminals in a revolutionary new way, stopping just short of making a public call to action for government regulation.


-But yeah, merchant adoption does suck. With a lot of anonymous products Bitcoin users are familiar with, there's acceptance for donations and payment, but rarely outside that. It's kind of silly that I first shop for a store on the Bitcoin Trade Wiki before shopping for products, and I don't think it's reasonable to expect consumer adoption while that's still happening - but there are a lot of VCs who are aware of this and working on the next big thing. They really are out there (and by "there," I mean here), so if you have a very clever idea and release it publicly with a pseudo-resume saying why you and whoever you're with can implement this well, then ask for funding, someone will likely tap you eventually. They're looking at services like BitPay and BitInstant, because ease-of-use (reducing the education burden) is key to Bitcoin adoption, even moreso than just talking about Bitcoins publicly - because the Bitcoin infrastructure right now is not a collection of products ready for the public. Buying Bitcoins shouldn't be something you need to "plan" for... The way Gox and other exchanges make you wait (because we haven't found enough good, cheap, quick ways around AML regs), it's as bad as filing your fucking tax returns. Legal tender, AML, and tax laws all burden Bitcoin in ways more profound than almost every other product, and ease-of-use suffers because of it, which hurts adoption rate.

I really think, when we see either a Bitcoin ATM or a debit card which can take and give both fiat and BTC - or even just a legitimate bank/CU, merchant adoption (esp. B&M, where Bitcoin has practically no presence) is going to start soaring. When I can use my BTC in the Bank of BitInstant - or whatever - and use it like USD with a debit card, I can basically use BTC everywhere. Right now, I can't really take my Bitcoins with me. I don't want to store coins on a phone, and I definitely am not going to be pressing my phone against a cash register dongle like the world's biggest douchebag. Physical coins are unsuitable for reasons I don't think I need to get into - and I gotta poop, so...

[Jaroslaw]

So assuming USA tomorrow announce they will use virtual money, but why the hell they use Bitcoin ?? They could announce AmericaCoin wich is not in 50% in hand of "unknown" people. This is impossible to any country or big organisation accept bitcoins, rather they will introduce their own Xcoin.

[franky1]

everyone is thinking the end is near due to the price being nearer the $100 mark compared to the $240 mark..

the way i see it...
Feb 2013 low of $20
March 2013 low of $33
April 2013 low of $50
May 2013 low of $91


dont worry about the highs, they will be ramped by many speculations the proaganda machines can think up next.

as long as the lows don't drop too much and creep up in value each month then bitcoin is still growing. ignore the daily amounts if your thinking about long term investments. the daily amounts are for day trading profiteers.

for long term value, use the monthly low figures to see what is happening

[wtfvanity]

4 Years is nothing!

E-books
Invented: 1930
Became mass popular: 1992

Microsoft
Started: 1975.
Became Popular: 1995

Christianity
Started: Approx 4 BC
Became a world religion: The 16th century

Cars
First prodused: 1672
Became a World Wide Product: (Not yet)

And so on, etcitra, and so forth...

In 4 years since the launch? U r kidding.

Internet, invented in the 1960's.
US Backbone in the 1980's
Commercialization in the 1990's.
2012 over 1/3 of the world population using it.

Let's not compare the Internet to Bitcoin. It didn't start with a few nerds sending coins to each other without being commercialized. Oh wait... yeah it did. A couple of years in we have bitpay and some other cool tools.

4 years of bitcoin seems just like the beginning.

6000 nodes.

250,000 wallets on blockchain.info

Transaction volume increases.

Yeah, it looks like the end is near for sure.

[SmokeTooMuch]

I'm here for the full 4 years and I can prove otherwise.

Could u provide a few examples, plz?

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade
We started end 2009 with zero exchange possibilites and we had no idea what one bitcoin could be worth. Now we have hundreds if not thousand of bitcoin-accepting businesses, we have several exchange markets who operate in different countries with different state currencies. We build a community with thousands of people all sharing the same ideal. We made that almost all the internet-affine people know about Bitcoin.
All the products you listed where supported by huge profit oriented business and none of them was the first product of their kind.
Seriously, I could go on and on.
Saying Bitcoin is at it's end because it's not the worlds #1 currency yet is just offensive to everyone who is really involved with the bitcoin community and is totally ignoring what we, as a internet community have reached. We have started a freaking revolution via the internet, how can you just ignore such a thing?
Feel free to leave us at any point, but don't think Bitcoin has reached it's zenith yet.

[Come-from-Beyond]

everyone is thinking the end is near due to the price being nearer the $100 mark compared to the $240 mark..

I'm not talking about USD/BTC rate. I'm talking about

The rise of competing altcoins, govt regulation, shutdowns of exchanges, frozen bank accounts, recent crashes called "fluctuations", black PR

and

price manipulation, inability of core devs to solve technical issues related to scalability, centralization, successful attempts of some persons to regulate Bitcoin

[Come-from-Beyond]

I'm here for the full 4 years and I can prove otherwise.

Could u provide a few examples, plz?

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade
We started end 2009 with zero exchange possibilites and we had no idea what one bitcoin could be worth. Now we have hundreds if not thousand of bitcoin-accepting businesses, we have several exchange markets who operate in different countries with different state currencies. We build a community with thousands of people all sharing the same ideal. We made that almost all the internet-affine people know about Bitcoin.
All the products you listed where supported by huge profit oriented business and none of them was the first product of their kind.
Seriously, I could go on and on.

Well. I have to admit there is some progress.

[nebulus]

I am sorry but I don't see how having some competition means the end of Bitcoin. Your topic would be much better if you would write it from an angle that outlines bitcoin difficulties rather than make it into a FUD rant.

[WilderedB]

'Come from beyond', what is the actual purpose of your rant?

Just to get people upset or what?

Happily bitcoin doesn't answer to you, nor do the thousands of users. I'm curious though as to the purpose of your post? What are you hoping to achieve?

[Come-from-Beyond]

'Come from beyond', what is the actual purpose of your rant?

Just to get people upset or what?

Happily bitcoin doesn't answer to you, nor do the thousands of users. I'm curious though as to the purpose of your post? What are you hoping to achieve?

Bitcoin has a lot of (unresolvable) issues. People shouldn't be sheeple. In fact Bitcoin is regulated by "Mark Karpeles & Co". Litecoin has similar issue. I'm sure there are a lot of experienced developers among newbies, they could launch a better cryptocoin.

[UltimateReaper]

'Come from beyond', what is the actual purpose of your rant?

Just to get people upset or what?

Happily bitcoin doesn't answer to you, nor do the thousands of users. I'm curious though as to the purpose of your post? What are you hoping to achieve?

Bitcoin has a lot of (unresolvable) issues. People shouldn't be sheeple. In fact Bitcoin is regulated by "Mark Karpeles & Co". Litecoin has similar issue. I'm sure there are a lot of experienced developers among newbies, they could launch a better cryptocoin.

Bitcoin was created by an Asian. Not only that but a Japanese Asian

You really think someone is going to build a better coin?

 Hell, when Japan finally finishes their Gundams we will all be sorry.

[nicolazza]

IT ONLY HAS BEGUN!!!

In 4 years since the launch? U r kidding.

4 years is nothing, are you 12 by any chance? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7miRCLeFSJo

No, 33.

The age of christ 

[papaminer]

Come from behind is correct. Don't put all your eggs in one basket.

BTC will fail as the single, arch-cryptocurrency. It's got some real problems. All you dang kool-aid drinkers put down the isopropyl alcohol spiked kool-aid for just long enough to use your mind and learn what the flaws are and impartially analyze them already, for crissake. I'm not saying it's a train wreck. But because it is open source, it is bound to be improved upon, itself and by forks.

He's not saying cryptocurrency is a failure.

Bitcoin succeeds as being the prototype of cryptocurrency, because cryptocurrency will prevail! Think about it. This is the first go round. Others are already proliferating. Some address btc specific flaws, others don't. The markets will decide. I don't think bitcoin is going to come out on top.

When it's practically as easy as doing a git clone and changing what you want, posting what you did here, enduring the flaming kool-aid drinkers, and supporting the product, then better (and worse) alternatives are surely going to make themselves available. That's another bitcoin success!

I think it will stablize in the future with many different competing and complementary cryptocoins, some for international purposes, some localized geographically used as reserves for notes issued by local banks or governments. Some will store wealth better, like bitcoin, some will spend better and have more velocity, like something like freicoin. Some will only be useful in California, others the world over on the internet. Some will only be pertinent to certain industries, like devcoin is to geeks.

Bitcoin fails as the be-all, end-all, only meaningful cryptocurrency, but succeeds wildy in spawning a whole new monetary system.

This is just my opinion.

[crumbcake]

And consider these facts:

-Bitcoin is open-source CURRENCY. It is not a PRODUCT being pushed and marketed by powerful elites (with their endless supply of brainwashing guru's) with really really deep pockets.

Right.  It doesn't have the force of powerful elites/brainwashing gurus/a country's economy/regulatory bodies/military/etc., etc. backing it up.  Those happen to be the very things that lend value to currency, stabilize that value & inspire confidence.  Bitcoin has ...  

-No one has tried introduce a disruptive tech like Bitcoins before, a tech that fights centralized banking

Not sure what you mean by "disruptive tech," a currency which is introduced into an established economy *on top of* existent currency to *dilute & devalue it*?  I'm not sure how that's fundamentally different from printing & pumping more $ bills into the economy -- you haven't introduced anything else of value into the system, have you?

-It's a CURRENCY not backed by a centralized power <- remember this, it is not some smartphone or some piece of operating system, which are just products on top of existing products that the masses are ready to consume... the whole philosophical idea behind Bitcoins is totally foreign to the average citizen who don't understand how their papers are created

Well, see above, +
There are "philosophical ideas" that are too intricate & sublime for the average Joe to understand quickly.  And some "philosophical ideas" are simply ... bad, ill-formed drivel.  Clumsy mental constructs that fail the test of reality. "Average citizen" doesn't get them 'coz he's smart.

Those facts alone makes life VERY difficult for Bitcoins. So to have Bitcoins where it is today (in a relatively short lifetime of 4 years) I would say Bitcoins is ALREADY a smashing success.

Bitcoin *could* be going through growing pains, or death throes--everything you said seems to point to the latter.  Yeah, the success of Bitcoin up 'till now is nothing short of *amazing*.  OTOH, a horse that can count up to ten is an amazing horse, not an amazing mathematician. (somebody clever (not i) came up with the horse bit)

That said, i'm a noob, and could be dead-wrong. If nothing else, Bitcoin's wikid' interesting.  

[edit] Whoops.  reply to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=193445.msg2008578#msg2008578

[Crypt_Current]

the end of FIAT is near!

FML, the spec forum has follow me out.

yerp

[Crypt_Current]

Before you say bitcoin has failed, first you must define what a success would be for bitcoin. To me, a successful bitcoin has the network running securely, confirming transactions in a timely manner, allowing me to send value across the globe or store value securely until I need it later. We have achieved a small amount of success, but there is still room for improvement. Right now I can store value as bitcoins, and I can send those bitcoins, but these features are still limited.

I agree with this because it's in red

[Chakraball]

'Come from beyond', what is the actual purpose of your rant?

Just to get people upset or what?

Happily bitcoin doesn't answer to you, nor do the thousands of users. I'm curious though as to the purpose of your post? What are you hoping to achieve?

Bitcoin has a lot of (unresolvable) issues. People shouldn't be sheeple. In fact Bitcoin is regulated by "Mark Karpeles & Co". Litecoin has similar issue. I'm sure there are a lot of experienced developers among newbies, they could launch a better cryptocoin.

Bitcoin was created by an Asian. Not only that but a Japanese Asian

You really think someone is going to build a better coin?

 Hell, when Japan finally finishes their Gundams we will all be sorry.

The only Japanese involved was a non English speaking newbie on the Ruby List who's name they decided to use.

[statdude]

Can someone help me with this thought?

I see the altcoins as devaluing and having the potential to replace BTC. So, BTC is inherently threatened.

Since BTC/LTC/FTC are so similar,  doesn't it have the effect of "printing money" on the market, since all of them are the same and can be used for the same purpose? Why is BTC any better than any Altcoin or a combination of all of them? It seems like we went from 17 million coins, plus 4x that, plus 4x that 2nd number again!

So, why would BTC be worth more LONG TERM? It's because of USABILITY - if you can't use it, you won't buy it - and the price will drop! Whatever coin is being used, will have value - Unless its replaced by competition! I could see this happening repeatedly over the coming years - if another coin is able to out-compete BTC, inevitably something better will come along! I don't see BTC being particularly more USABLE than LTC for much at this point, so wheres the value? In its "potential"- but doesn't that  belong to all cryptocurrencies?

Unless BTC is somehow signed into law or permanently becomes the ONLY option mid/long term, it's value will always be in danger of other cyrptocurrencies taking its place, IMO.