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Author Topic: Some miscellaneous questions of mine  (Read 613 times)
LittleBitFunny (OP)
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May 26, 2017, 07:14:50 PM
 #1

1.  As I understand it, there's a block approximately every 10 minutes.  But when I pay a high fee on my transactions, I've had confirmations happen within 30 seconds or so, and the stories of people accidentally paying really high fees seem to result in instant confirmations.  How do they confirm before they're included in a block?

2.  Coinbase have fees several times higher than other exchanges (a static 1.5% to Bitstamp's 0.1-0.25%).  However, people still use them over Bitstamp.  I'm guessing that it has some relation to the fact that Coinbase has no spread and only one price, but I don't get it.  Can someone explain?

3.  Are public keys related to a whole wallet or just single addresses?  As I understand it, they're displayed with each transaction, so if it's related to a single address what would happen when a transaction is sent from several addresses, and if it's related to a whole wallet why wouldn't it reveal a person's association to other addresses that they own?

4.  I'm a bit confused about the trust system.  I read theymos' thread about it, but I still don't quite get exactly what causes someone to have a positive rating, what the multiple different numbers mean and how DT members tie into this.

5.  The transactions that I send are only to one address, but there also shows Bitcoin being sent to a second address.  What is this second transaction (it's not the same amount as my fees)?

6.  What are inputs and outputs to a transaction exactly?  At first I thought they were just addresses that you received Bitcoin in and addresses that you're sending to, but now I think there's more to it.

7.  How important really are full nodes?  People seem to talk about the node count, but can't SPV be good enough for the majority if there's just one honest node willing to relay your transaction?

8.  What are "anyone can spend" outputs (SegWit), and "witness blocks"? 

9.  In a hard fork, is there automatically a chain split or can a large economic majority render the old chain meaningless, and in a soft fork, does the chain split if a majority of hashrate moves away from the soft fork again?

I'm not a complete idiot, but I'm new so try not to add any more questions for me in your answers.  Less techy explanations please.

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May 26, 2017, 08:49:47 PM
 #2

Let me answer only point 5 of your questions as others take a long time to explain but this one is the easiest.

Almost every wallet right now is HD (Heuristic Determined) and they use one address to send coins and one address is the change address. Just like when you pay in FIAT , you give seller1 100 USD to buy a hamburger of 10 USD, this seller gives you change of 90 USD. This is what the second address does and it is called change address.

Many other people more  experienced than me can answer your other questions.
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May 26, 2017, 09:19:11 PM
 #3

1.  As I understand it, there's a block approximately every 10 minutes.  But when I pay a high fee on my transactions, I've had confirmations happen within 30 seconds or so, and the stories of people accidentally paying really high fees seem to result in instant confirmations.  How do they confirm before they're included in a block?

2.  Coinbase have fees several times higher than other exchanges (a static 1.5% to Bitstamp's 0.1-0.25%).  However, people still use them over Bitstamp.  I'm guessing that it has some relation to the fact that Coinbase has no spread and only one price, but I don't get it.  Can someone explain?

3.  Are public keys related to a whole wallet or just single addresses?  As I understand it, they're displayed with each transaction, so if it's related to a single address what would happen when a transaction is sent from several addresses, and if it's related to a whole wallet why wouldn't it reveal a person's association to other addresses that they own?

4.  I'm a bit confused about the trust system.  I read theymos' thread about it, but I still don't quite get exactly what causes someone to have a positive rating, what the multiple different numbers mean and how DT members tie into this.

5.  The transactions that I send are only to one address, but there also shows Bitcoin being sent to a second address.  What is this second transaction (it's not the same amount as my fees)?

6.  What are inputs and outputs to a transaction exactly?  At first I thought they were just addresses that you received Bitcoin in and addresses that you're sending to, but now I think there's more to it.

7.  How important really are full nodes?  People seem to talk about the node count, but can't SPV be good enough for the majority if there's just one honest node willing to relay your transaction?

8.  What are "anyone can spend" outputs (SegWit), and "witness blocks"? 

9.  In a hard fork, is there automatically a chain split or can a large economic majority render the old chain meaningless, and in a soft fork, does the chain split if a majority of hashrate moves away from the soft fork again?

I'm not a complete idiot, but I'm new so try not to add any more questions for me in your answers.  Less techy explanations please.

1. They happened to submit right before a block was mined, but early enough that the transaction made it to that miner in time.

2. Not sure of all the factors, but validating KYC/AML and linking a bank account with them was relatively straightforward (I switched to them on short notice as Gox was about to go under, and needed to set up quickly).

3. There's two ways to create a wallet. In one of them, your client creates a new random private key every time you need an address. Backing up your wallet will only back up the keys generated so far, so you need to take regular backups. Each of those has an associated public key; hashing and encoding that public key creates an address. In the other (called a Hierarchal Deterministic wallet), your client creates a random private and public key (master keys, or xpriv and xpub respectively). From these, the client derives a bunch of private and public keys for each address that you need. Each of these key pairs is associated with its own address. The benefit of this is that you can back up the xpriv key once, and all the addresses you ever create from it will be protected by that backup.

4. I'm not 100% familiar with the system. Someone else can probably answer this better than I can.

5. That's a change address that your wallet creates. When you send a transaction, you are using up some so-called inputs to your transaction (which are the outputs of transactions that you receive); you can't subdivide those inputs. Hence, when making a transaction, your client selects enough of those inputs to cover the amount and fees, and includes outputs to the recipients, as well as an output sent back to you with the remainder.

6. They're amounts of coins that are available on an account. Each transaction consumes one or more inputs, and creates one or more outputs.

7. Again not as familiar, but having just one honest node presents a large risk (incentive to tamper with that node) and bottleneck.

8. Outputs have so-called output scripts, that are used to secure spending of that output. A common output type (corresponding with outputs sent to most "normal" addresses, i.e. the ones starting with 1) is P2PKH (pay to public key hash), whose script looks like: OP_DUP OP_HASH160 <PubkeyHash> OP_EQUALVERIFY OP_CHECKSIG

This means that a script redeeming it needs to provide the public key itself and a signature using that public key. The key is on the script stack, gets duplicated, hashed, compared to the pubkey hash, and the signature is checked using that key.

A segwit transaction has a script that looks like anyone can redeem it at present. However, new rules regarding how segwit clients validate that transaction will mean that they check a witness block (containing additional transaction data) for the signatures themselves, saving space in the "normal" blocks themselves, since that sig data is no longer stored there.

9. I have a vague idea of how this works but am not sure enough to answer it, since the ramifications of this for your decision-making may be extensive if/when forks occur.

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LittleBitFunny (OP)
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May 27, 2017, 08:32:20 AM
 #4

Thanks very much.  I've sent a tip of 0.0025.

I would appreciate it if anyone could clear up 2, 4, 7 and 9.  I'm still not quite convinced about why the node count is so important (or why it's necessary for the "average Joe" to run a full node, currently I'm using a TREZOR).

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May 27, 2017, 12:29:33 PM
 #5

4.  I'm a bit confused about the trust system.  I read theymos' thread about it, but I still don't quite get exactly what causes someone to have a positive rating, what the multiple different numbers mean and how DT members tie into this.
It's quite simple.

This is how your trust is shown
Trust: 1: -0 / +12(3)

Purple: user's trust score calculated based on how consistently they've received positive feedback.
Orange: number of reported scams
Blue: increases with the number of positive reports

Everyone registered in the forum has a list that can be filled by you, where you define who is trustworthy for you. However, everyone registered in the forum already starts with a predefined list of trusted users, called Default Trust (DT). Only theymos can add people in the Default Trust, so they can be considered the most trustworthy people in the community.

The system works like the OTC WoT. Because you automatically trust the people in Default Trust, all members trusted by them will also be trusted by you. This is why you see many users with the green trust, simply because they have received positive feedback from a reliable user present in the DT list.

The same way works for the people you manually puts on your list. If you add me on your trust list, everyone I set as trustworthy will also be considered trustworthy for you.

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hexafraction
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May 27, 2017, 04:50:24 PM
 #6

Thanks very much.  I've sent a tip of 0.0025.

I would appreciate it if anyone could clear up 2, 4, 7 and 9.  I'm still not quite convinced about why the node count is so important (or why it's necessary for the "average Joe" to run a full node, currently I'm using a TREZOR).

Not a problem, happy to help where/when I can.

I have recently become active again after a long period of inactivity. Cryptographic proof that my account has not been compromised is available.
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May 28, 2017, 04:01:05 PM
Last edit: May 28, 2017, 04:33:30 PM by odolvlobo
 #7

1.  Blocks are produced at the rate of one every ten minutes on average, and there is no reason why a miner couldn't produce a block 30 seconds after including your transaction.

2.  People might use Coinbase over Bitstamp even though it is more expensive because it can be more convenient, or because they don't know about Bitstamp and other exchanges.

3.  A wallet holds one or more private keys. It may use a seed to generate those private keys. A public key is derived from a private key. A Bitcoin address is derived from a public key -- it is not the same a public key. A transaction that sends from several addresses generally does mean those addresses are in the same wallet. That is the main technique used to associate addresses.

4.  The user's value that you see is calculated from your rating, the ratings given by the users you trust, and the ratings given by default trust users.

5.  Transactions send fixed amounts of bitcoins (too long to explain here), so your wallet will create a new "change" address to send the leftover bitcoins to.

6.  In simplest terms, an output typically specifies the address that bitcoins are sent to, and an input specifies where the bitcoins come from.

But more precisely: An output holds bitcoins and specifies the requirements for a transaction to claim them. An input references the output of a previous transaction. A transaction transfers bitcoins from the outputs referenced by its inputs to its own outputs.

7.  The primary reason to run a full node is to ensure the security of your bitcoins and your transactions. However, more full nodes and more interconnections between full nodes also result in a more reliable and secure network.

8.  An "anyone can spend" output is just that -- anyone can spend it. However, in a soft fork, such an output looks like an "anyone can spend" output only to old software.

9.  A hard fork is a change in the validation rules that causes the chain to split into two branches. The new rules extend one branch, and the old rules extend the other branch. It is assumed that economic factors would motivate everyone to abandon the branch with the old rules.

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May 31, 2017, 03:42:43 PM
 #8

Essentiay the way the trust system works is that you need multiple people giving you a positive rating for your trust to go up. Someone who has green trust next to their name means that by your default trust setting they are deemed "trustworthy" according to the algorithmn.

To be green trust at default trust means you are at least level 2 trust depth(it goes up to 4). If you set your trust setting to 3 or 4 it will show more people as trustworthy bscause it expands the results. If you leave it at default setting of 2 people who appear as green trust will be only those people with high amounts of positive feedback.

I have 3 positive feedback. How do I appear to you? Does it show green?
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June 02, 2017, 09:19:01 PM
 #9

Essentiay the way the trust system works is that you need multiple people giving you a positive rating for your trust to go up. Someone who has green trust next to their name means that by your default trust setting they are deemed "trustworthy" according to the algorithmn.

To be green trust at default trust means you are at least level 2 trust depth(it goes up to 4). If you set your trust setting to 3 or 4 it will show more people as trustworthy bscause it expands the results. If you leave it at default setting of 2 people who appear as green trust will be only those people with high amounts of positive feedback.

I have 3 positive feedback. How do I appear to you? Does it show green?

No sorry it's not appearing. The trust system is ridiculous and a waste of time anyway. It's sbused each day and I'd a very poor indication of anything . It's meaningless. If you want green trust it is simple. Green trust is bough. How ?

Loan people money and you get green trust. See it is bought.

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