Turn $10,000 into 1 Million

[HR]

That’s actually a great thing to do, but its not an easy thing, it is a gradual process, you have to have the mind and soul of an investor, turning $10,000 to $1million is not an easy task and it would not happen overnight, it is a gradual thing so you should know that.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Little by little and using all the brain power you've got!


Now that you've got me on the subject I'd like to reiterate what you just said: nobody ever said it would be easy - in fact it's a daunting task. I've been trading and investing for over 30 years, and I can vouch for the fact that the learning curve is extremely steep. Nevertheless, everyone has to start somewhere, and with the once in a lifetime opportunity that crypto is offering us, I just want to instigate a more collaborative environment where those of us with more knowledge help not just each other, but the newcomer as well. There's no need for greed here. We don't have to be at each other's throats trying to unload to "noob bagholders". There's way more than enough to go around - so much so that those of us with knowledge and experience can afford to be generous [for once].

But newbies be forewarned, you'll need to do your part too. There's no such thing as a free ride. Be patient and diligent, and start researching and getting up to speed, and you'll make a lot of money in the coming years - even if you only buy good names (at the right time) and hold until you retire.

[mindrust]

Okay, so it’s a semantic thing, so instead of “innovation” let’s just say “doing something” and then add “positive” to the phrase so as to differentiate between insider bickering that leads to aggressive renegade forks bent on the destruction of the original and something else like the original dev coming back to commit full-time after having done one hell of a job helping to take Coinbase worldwide.    Those are a couple of representative examples that highlight the huge differences in the images being projected to the world. LTC looks like it’s moving forward in a positive, progressive manner while BTC looks like it’s becoming a dinosaur that can’t get out of its own way. Innovation, implementation, whatever the wording, let’s talk about who’s deliberately moving forward and who’s fighting progress all along the way. And it’s not for safety’s sake, because LTC is just as safe, if not safer. What’s the figure? Chinese miners make up over 70% of BTC’s hash power? Have you thought about what would happen if for some reason one of those miners went down? How long would the blockchain be frozen for? Okay, I know there’s similar hashrate concentration in LTC, but how would you answer the same question about how long the blockchain would be down if one of the LTC major miners went offline? Very different answers due to the different code bases. Where would you want your money to be if that happened?

These kinds of stuff can't happen to LTC because LTC's market cap is not big enough. It is nothing compared to what BTC has.

Those bad actors, bad miners, scam artists are all aiming to take control of  Bitcoin's network. Because $70B+ is on the line. It is the mega prize!

I already told you in my message above, LTC has a smaller community/market cap that's why things are going more smoothly. Once LTC has the trading volume/market cap of BTC,  LTC is going to experience every single problem BTC is having now.

That's why I called LTC as "BTC's testnet."

LTC does and can and will do everything BTC does, but on a smaller scale. That's why its growth will be always inferior to Bitcoin's after some point. And LTC will always have serious competitors because they don't do anything original or anything bitcoin can't do so LTC may lose its testnet position at anytime!

[wuvdoll]

I have also 10K$ to invest. I'ts a dream for a beginner like me to make 60K$ in few months 

Lol dude just make yourself up for this. You are beginner so just have get knowledge and techniques of trading. I will suggest not to day trading as it will be not as good for you as per your plans. Just wait for a couple of days and buy bitcoin and just wait on hold for couple of months too. See the charisma then

[Kopen]

4) 15% would be the investment max, 30% would be a profit growth mark, but it’s not set in stone; it’s a guideline – something to seriously consider. The idea is to be able to let profits run. If you don’t do that, then you’re going to have serious problems seeing any real growth, and with the severe risk management restrictions I already have in place, we’d really be limiting things to compound interest equivalents if we were to keep balancing anything close to original investment size.

For my edification, 15% => max initial investment (i.e. $1500 for a $10k portfolio), and 30% (i.e. +100% relative) signals enough drift to protect profits? Totally get that there's an art to it. Litecoin presumably being your exception case, as well (I know it wandered into the 50% range).

I think I have a decent grasp for skimming off spec-grade stuff (where I'm entering it intending to skim and don't mind exiting quickly). It's the long-term, undervalued ("investment") assets where I'm like...well, I'd love to take some profit off LTC/XMR/etc. (any reliable, typically high-cap coin), but that seems at-odds with my ultimate assessment that, for instance, LTC is worth more than $70 (or XMR more than $140, etc., etc.).

Every time I've tried profit-taking with BTC/USD I end up with a taxable event and missing the first 10% of the next leg up. Not typically a loss, but not convinced that I'm beating holding because I get too clever. I'd hate to introduce inefficiency across my portfolio just trying to protect recent gains.

5) With USD you’ve got tax implications to contemplate that can set you back almost as much as simply holding to the bottom of the bear.

Aaaaaaaand now you get to the big question. Are you betting that the IRS will allow like-kind exchanges for these? I've been operating under the notion that any BTC -> ALT trade is taxable at their respective dollar-values. If the whole premise of diversifying between coins is that each has relative strengths, focuses, industries, etc., my gut says that an auditor is going to want to see taxes for every single swap.

Those wash sales are gonna bite too. :/

Just for fun: Is USDT more like a USD or more like BTC? Maybe you can like-kind it with USD but not other cryptos.

[HR]

Okay, so it’s a semantic thing, so instead of “innovation” let’s just say “doing something” and then add “positive” to the phrase so as to differentiate between insider bickering that leads to aggressive renegade forks bent on the destruction of the original and something else like the original dev coming back to commit full-time after having done one hell of a job helping to take Coinbase worldwide.    Those are a couple of representative examples that highlight the huge differences in the images being projected to the world. LTC looks like it’s moving forward in a positive, progressive manner while BTC looks like it’s becoming a dinosaur that can’t get out of its own way. Innovation, implementation, whatever the wording, let’s talk about who’s deliberately moving forward and who’s fighting progress all along the way. And it’s not for safety’s sake, because LTC is just as safe, if not safer. What’s the figure? Chinese miners make up over 70% of BTC’s hash power? Have you thought about what would happen if for some reason one of those miners went down? How long would the blockchain be frozen for? Okay, I know there’s similar hashrate concentration in LTC, but how would you answer the same question about how long the blockchain would be down if one of the LTC major miners went offline? Very different answers due to the different code bases. Where would you want your money to be if that happened?

These kinds of stuff can't happen to LTC because LTC's market cap is not big enough. It is nothing compared to what BTC has.

Those bad actors, bad miners, scam artists are all aiming to take control of  Bitcoin's network. Because $70B+ is on the line. It is the mega prize!

I already told you in my message above, LTC has a smaller community/market cap that's why things are going more smoothly. Once LTC has the trading volume/market cap of BTC,  LTC is going to experience every single problem BTC is having now.

That's why I called LTC as "BTC's testnet."

LTC does and can and will do everything BTC does, but on a smaller scale. That's why its growth will be always inferior to Bitcoin's after some point. And LTC will always have serious competitors because they don't do anything original or anything bitcoin can't do so LTC may lose its testnet position at anytime!

This is a very good primer that basically agrees with you guys and is the kind of analysis that objective decision making requires. Emotion needs to be removed from the context as much as humanly possible, and that’s a responsibility we all share.

We’ve shared our perceptions on the matter. I don’t have a problem with our big brother Bitcoin. Many have speculated that BTC will be the ultimate safe haven and LTC real use coin. Who knows at this point? It’s really a moot point for this thread anyway since the goal here is to find undervalued prospects, and we can hardly say BTC is currently undervalued, can we.

What really matters here is that there really isn’t that much separating them in real life while there’s still a huge 16:1 spread in their price (still, at today’s prices).

That spread will close, partly with BTC coming down, and partly with LTC moving higher. Where will the surprise be? I’ll continue to stick with playing the BTC-LTC spread from the LTC long side for now, and also insist on quality content as well.

[drubas]

Lots of great replies and comments. I’ll try to answer in general as generally as I can.

Yeah, I think it’s very possible, and as well as being a personal challenge, it’s also something that can be easily shared without reservation as I think it’s practically impossible to lose money if you’re willing and able to hold for as long as you have to if needed. From that group of 7 you might have one or two “disappointments”, but things have got to really go wrong for you to lose money. It’s the biggest no brainer I’ve ever seen in my life. Easy for me to say having been around since 2014. Easy for anyone whose been around since the early days to say the same. That having been said, it’s not so obvious to the newcomer, who’s starting at a much higher buy price and has much less knowledge. Those of us who’ve been around know that crypto is here to stay and that the winners are going to be worth a lot more than they are now. The key rests with your crypto picking capabilities, and why not share your conclusions with others? If you’re so sure about them for yourself, why not openly share them? Even at the risk of sounding like a shill! It’s in all of our interests to hang on to our winnings until we get fair value, isn’t it? One of the best things we can do is share our knowledge about that and work together to that end. There’s a reason why early adopters are handsomely rewarded: they invested their time, knowledge and money early on. The idea is to sell at fair value . . . after, of course, identifying the winners that will make it there. Yes, I think it’s very possible, and I hope there are as many of us peons as possible who do it!

Some of the more technical aspects: I think the potential is there in this portfolio for a 100x gain. No doubt in my mind that the reasonable prospect is there, and “dead” coins, third tier coins, not even 2nd tier coins are necessary in order to find these prospects. 100x gains with 1st tier crypto. That’s the amazing part about this! See this other thread for more thoughts of mine on this subject: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1925617.0

With regards to other possibilities: that’s why I invite everyone to participate, so you can put your suggestions out there too. I would only suggest that you try to stay with the basic criteria being used: high potential value crypto already performing as projected that is extremely undervalued. Technically LTC isn’t in that category, but the portfolio needs a conservative, yet also relatively undervalued, balance to act as the “bank” and with BTC approaching fair value (that I estimate to be $5,000ish), LTC was chosen for that role (with a 20x conservative appreciation potential, next to BTC, it’s another no brainer – it does everything BTC does, and much more!). And, of course, since I, or any of us, can always be wrong, I also recommend healthy debate.

No time frame is set. Everything risked is risk capital capable of being completely lost.

Thx for your thoroughly compiled statement!

I fully agree with this!

[shield132]

As an answer for your signature. Amazing, LTC is amazing. I really don't understand why people don't use it.

Ether is great because of the contracts that can be created. But coblee did the greatest coin as supply, way of a transaction and so on.

I send a few weeks ago some litecoins even with a really low fee, almost to minimum.

I think still many people uses litecoin because it's great alternative of altcoin and once theymos said, it's almost bitcoin's clone. So since people like bitcoin, they will like litecoin because it has low transaction fees. But if we look past, this coin was like dead with a very low price, it started a little rise these months, that's why it lost it's old popularity. Eth is great also.
Suddenly I haven't heard about coblee (not an altcoin fan).

[Sled]

As an answer for your signature. Amazing, LTC is amazing. I really don't understand why people don't use it.

Ether is great because of the contracts that can be created. But coblee did the greatest coin as supply, way of a transaction and so on.

I send a few weeks ago some litecoins even with a really low fee, almost to minimum.

I think still many people uses litecoin because it's great alternative of altcoin and once theymos said, it's almost bitcoin's clone. So since people like bitcoin, they will like litecoin because it has low transaction fees. But if we look past, this coin was like dead with a very low price, it started a little rise these months, that's why it lost it's old popularity. Eth is great also.
Suddenly I haven't heard about coblee (not an altcoin fan).

The price of litecoin was so low last year because there is no any good development that is happening in litecoin but when the litecoin gets an upgrade of segwit and lightning network it pumps the price very high and that is the reason why the price of litecoin is so high right now and most of the conservative people in terms of fees uses litecoin because it has a lower fee and also a fast transaction because of the segwit.

[Savik]

GRS is running. I've sold 3 more allotments for .0004100, .00004960 and .00006150.

Only have 1/6 of the original buy left.

Good example of a short term scalp that worked out in not too much time (but it was days nonetheless). Hope it's not the beginning of something bigger, but if it is, there will be pullbacks to buy - between you an me though, I'm not holding my breath. 

Made a 45% gain and still have 3000 plus GRS left to [probably] sell on the reaction rally to that really ugly 1 hour candle that just closed. Think I'll set it around .00005300. Nah, going to get greedy and ask .00005500. That'll bring it up to an 80% gain. Nice scalp.

Let's see if I get it.

BTW, if I thought we were in a more bullish environment, I would be going for much more.

Were your sales pre-planned at the .0004100, .00004960 and .00006150 levels? Or did you set it as the rally went along?

[angaper]

That’s actually a great thing to do, but its not an easy thing, it is a gradual process, you have to have the mind and soul of an investor, turning $10,000 to $1million is not an easy task and it would not happen overnight, it is a gradual thing so you should know that.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Little by little and using all the brain power you've got!


Now that you've got me on the subject I'd like to reiterate what you just said: nobody ever said it would be easy - in fact it's a daunting task. I've been trading and investing for over 30 years, and I can vouch for the fact that the learning curve is extremely steep. Nevertheless, everyone has to start somewhere, and with the once in a lifetime opportunity that crypto is offering us, I just want to instigate a more collaborative environment where those of us with more knowledge help not just each other, but the newcomer as well. There's no need for greed here. We don't have to be at each other's throats trying to unload to "noob bagholders". There's way more than enough to go around - so much so that those of us with knowledge and experience can afford to be generous [for once].

But newbies be forewarned, you'll need to do your part too. There's no such thing as a free ride. Be patient and diligent, and start researching and getting up to speed, and you'll make a lot of money in the coming years - even if you only buy good names (at the right time) and hold until you retire.

The altcoins market is so new and different from other markets, that thirty years of experience may seem unnecessary to ensure a successful performance in this market. I have been successful as a trader in the Forex market for the last four years, with an average yield of 500% per annum, and in spite of it my experience has been useless in trying to replicate my results in the altcoin market.

By the way, in a well known Forex forum, someone was able to achieve a fantastic challenge of converting $ 1,000 into a million, and did so in just two weeks, so it is perfectly possible to achieve a million with $ 10,000 (by the way, this fantastic trader was unable to enjoy his winnings as a series of bad decisions led him to lose his million dollars over the next week). 

[HR]

The altcoins market is so new and different from other markets, that thirty years of experience may seem unnecessary to ensure a successful performance in this market. I have been successful as a trader in the Forex market for the last four years, with an average yield of 500% per annum, and in spite of it my experience has been useless in trying to replicate my results in the altcoin market.

By the way, in a well known Forex forum, someone was able to achieve a fantastic challenge of converting $ 1,000 into a million, and did so in just two weeks, so it is perfectly possible to achieve a million with $ 10,000 (by the way, this fantastic trader was unable to enjoy his winnings as a series of bad decisions led him to lose his million dollars over the next week). 

Tell me about your experience in Forex. Was is your job? Were you on your own? Etc. Maybe I can give you some tips. There really isn't much difference once you take off the pips hat and put on your sat cap. Seriously, If you can read a chart, I'm sure I can help.

With regards to the forum member who made a million and lost it: here there's zero leverage - 100% equity. He was most likely playing with at least 100:1. Probably one of those broker promotional contests?

[HR]

GRS is running. I've sold 3 more allotments for .0004100, .00004960 and .00006150.

Only have 1/6 of the original buy left.

Good example of a short term scalp that worked out in not too much time (but it was days nonetheless). Hope it's not the beginning of something bigger, but if it is, there will be pullbacks to buy - between you an me though, I'm not holding my breath. 

Made a 45% gain and still have 3000 plus GRS left to [probably] sell on the reaction rally to that really ugly 1 hour candle that just closed. Think I'll set it around .00005300. Nah, going to get greedy and ask .00005500. That'll bring it up to an 80% gain. Nice scalp.

Let's see if I get it.

BTW, if I thought we were in a more bullish environment, I would be going for much more.

Were your sales pre-planned at the .0004100, .00004960 and .00006150 levels? Or did you set it as the rally went along?

Orders always in. Sometimes higher (in bullish environments) and sometimes lower (in bearish environments).  EXCEPT FOR Litecoin. I have no sell orders in for Litecoin.

BTW, early this morning before I woke up, I sold the rest of GRS for .00004820 - the reaction rally I was initially expecting was a piece of crap, so I lowered my offer last night before going to bed and we finally got one, okay, right up to the 50% retrace at 4875ish and then it got sold into . . .

[J. Cooper]

You have taken a though one upon you my friend. Especially with trading. Keep grinding and moving forward and perhaps one day you will be reaching your goal.

[HR]

Lots of great replies and comments. I’ll try to answer in general as generally as I can.

Yeah, I think it’s very possible, and as well as being a personal challenge, it’s also something that can be easily shared without reservation as I think it’s practically impossible to lose money if you’re willing and able to hold for as long as you have to if needed. From that group of 7 you might have one or two “disappointments”, but things have got to really go wrong for you to lose money. It’s the biggest no brainer I’ve ever seen in my life. Easy for me to say having been around since 2014. Easy for anyone whose been around since the early days to say the same. That having been said, it’s not so obvious to the newcomer, who’s starting at a much higher buy price and has much less knowledge. Those of us who’ve been around know that crypto is here to stay and that the winners are going to be worth a lot more than they are now. The key rests with your crypto picking capabilities, and why not share your conclusions with others? If you’re so sure about them for yourself, why not openly share them? Even at the risk of sounding like a shill! It’s in all of our interests to hang on to our winnings until we get fair value, isn’t it? One of the best things we can do is share our knowledge about that and work together to that end. There’s a reason why early adopters are handsomely rewarded: they invested their time, knowledge and money early on. The idea is to sell at fair value . . . after, of course, identifying the winners that will make it there. Yes, I think it’s very possible, and I hope there are as many of us peons as possible who do it!

Some of the more technical aspects: I think the potential is there in this portfolio for a 100x gain. No doubt in my mind that the reasonable prospect is there, and “dead” coins, third tier coins, not even 2nd tier coins are necessary in order to find these prospects. 100x gains with 1st tier crypto. That’s the amazing part about this! See this other thread for more thoughts of mine on this subject: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1925617.0

With regards to other possibilities: that’s why I invite everyone to participate, so you can put your suggestions out there too. I would only suggest that you try to stay with the basic criteria being used: high potential value crypto already performing as projected that is extremely undervalued. Technically LTC isn’t in that category, but the portfolio needs a conservative, yet also relatively undervalued, balance to act as the “bank” and with BTC approaching fair value (that I estimate to be $5,000ish), LTC was chosen for that role (with a 20x conservative appreciation potential, next to BTC, it’s another no brainer – it does everything BTC does, and much more!). And, of course, since I, or any of us, can always be wrong, I also recommend healthy debate.

No time frame is set. Everything risked is risk capital capable of being completely lost.

Thx for your thoroughly compiled statement!

I fully agree with this!

Thank you so much for reposting this drubas. I really needed to read it again!

It's so easy to get sidetracked.

[HR]

So far today I've sold 4 lots of 128 PIVX for .000793, .000848, .000881 and .00093.  As you can see, those are modest prices since they correspond to short term trading positions and a not intermediate term swing positions.

In order not to unnecessarily clutter the thread, I will update here if I have any more sales today.

. . . I'm really hoping that SYS will begin to do something . . .

[Kopen]

Finally started swapping most of my charts to BTC pairings. Totally makes me rethink my future positions.

Feeling way less inclined to take profits off LTC, for instance. Doesn't look like it's flirted with the 0.02 resistance yet (for what that's worth). Riding the upper BBand (1D) but doesn't really freak me out. It's way up in USD, but it's only (only?? the greed) up 80% from its August low in BTC terms. USD tells me sell, BTC says let it ride. Don't screw with a good thing.

I could also rebalance a small amount, but it feels backwards putting higher-grade assets into spec assets at this point (most of my spec-class is meh right now--all the "good" coins in my portfolio are what's running hot). Shouldn't balancing ideally be the other way around? I'd prefer to use new fiat or maybe skim off a small BTC position to feed little 1-2% spec stuff. At the same time, I can't force the markets to match my price opinions.

More importantly though, does all of the above seem like sound reasoning in the general, TA sense (i.e. ignore the hodl/bank LTC angle)?

Also interesting that the latest LTC 0.02 (almost ATH) point was when BTC was tanking in July. Interesting hedge.

As always, tremendously appreciate all of your work keeping up with this thread.

[JohnnyNnex]

What's this? A self challenge? 10k usd to 1M is very possible. You just need a precise buy and sell judgement. Please update this thread of your progress.

very possible? It was possible 20 years ago for people like Jobs. Today it more hardly even with BTC

[HR]

Finally started swapping most of my charts to BTC pairings. Totally makes me rethink my future positions.

Feeling way less inclined to take profits off LTC, for instance. Doesn't look like it's flirted with the 0.02 resistance yet (for what that's worth). Riding the upper BBand (1D) but doesn't really freak me out. It's way up in USD, but it's only (only?? the greed) up 80% from its August low in BTC terms. USD tells me sell, BTC says let it ride. Don't screw with a good thing.

I could also rebalance a small amount, but it feels backwards putting higher-grade assets into spec assets at this point (most of my spec-class is meh right now--all the "good" coins in my portfolio are what's running hot). Shouldn't balancing ideally be the other way around? I'd prefer to use new fiat or maybe skim off a small BTC position to feed little 1-2% spec stuff. At the same time, I can't force the markets to match my price opinions.

More importantly though, does all of the above seem like sound reasoning in the general, TA sense (i.e. ignore the hodl/bank LTC angle)?

Also interesting that the latest LTC 0.02 (almost ATH) point was when BTC was tanking in July. Interesting hedge.

As always, tremendously appreciate all of your work keeping up with this thread.

Yeah, all that sounds very reasonable to me.

As things stand today, I'm not selling any LTC until it gets into the $150-$200 area. I say as things stand because things could change and cause me to reevaluate. That's tough for me to say in any event since the .02 resistance at today's BTC prices is roughly $100, and both are going to be big psychological barriers. For me, it'll all depend on how BTC is doing. If it starts showing signs of topping, I'll get much more aggressive with my selling everything (converting to USD equivalents). If it continues to cruise higher, as it very well might, then I'll hang tight.

It's very tempting to add a bit to the specs. I'm not doing it, but, as I say, it's very tempting. If you think BTC is going to move higher, it could be a good move since many of these good Alts do move higher towards the end of a BTC move - they're laggards that can double, triple, quadruple in a couple of days, but if we don't get that icing on the cake, you'd better be ready to liquidate. On the other hand, if your higher grade coins are doing well, and not getting way out of line still in portfolio percentage terms, why take the risk? Let your profits run, especially if they're good coins doing well, but, again, be faithful to your rebalancing guidelines. Nevertheless, once you have decided to rebalance, you'll still have the decision to make as to whether it'll be liquidating into a USD equivalent or nibbling on those more speculative assets.  

Having used the liquidate word, to be sure, I won't be liquidating LTC. As I've said before, I don't plan on letting it go below 25% of the portfolio simply, as you mentioned, because it also works as a nice hedge . . . until it doesn't.  I will be taking the rest of the portfolio into USD equivalents. Before or after playing one or two spec positions? We'll have to see what develops before I can answer that, but I don't think it's very likely I will: I am already starting to get very protective.



https://i.imgur.com/l3r1cI1.jpg

[setupbounds]

Perhaps not exactly "trading", but it just might be one of the shortest time frame investments you'll ever make.  

How about a portfolio competition?

Using today’s price to establish opening position cost basis, the following portfolio has a minimum target of $100,000 (if everything goes wrong) and a maximum (still conservative) target of $1,000,000. (Explaining the reasons why goes beyond the scope of this friendly competition.)

Litecoin (LTC) – 50%
BitShares (BTS) – 10%
STEEM (STEEM) – 10%
Syscoin (SYS) – 10%
Nxt (NXT) – 10%
PIVX (PIVX) – 5%
NEM (XEM) – 5%

We’ll see how it does. Wish me luck!


Full Disclosure: I currently hold many of these issues as “long term” investments (but not all at this exact time since I’m still looking for a better entry on one in particular), and could purchase or sell any, at any time, and/or trade short term as well, with the weighting for this “model” portfolio being somewhat different from my own, where, for example, I am currently overweight LTC, BTS and PIVX.


https://i.imgur.com/MqTGARn.png


Edit: Forgot one very small detail at the time: the price of Bitcoin. It's highlighted on the 5 min chart below.


https://i.imgur.com/00lZU8s.jpg

Turning $10,000 into $1Million is going to be a compounding type of investment because it is a gradual process and its not going to happen overnight or even a week(except you’re lucky enough to win a contract. The only method of turning $10K to $1 Million is effective investing

[Savik]

Hey HR, any thoughts on BTS and SYS? They have been in your portfolio for a while. I thought both were going to break higher before the whole market dumped last night. Do you have a longer term view for these two?