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Author Topic: tax on bitcoin profits in scandinavia?  (Read 12799 times)
Serpens66
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May 30, 2017, 05:27:13 PM
 #1

Hi Smiley

sorry for writing in english here, but it is hard to know in english section who is from which country.

I'm from germany and would like to know how private bitcoin profits are taxed in scandinavia .
Just the profits from normal trading on exchanges and holding coins not longer then one year.

In germany it is a "private sale" and the profits are added to your income and taxed as such, except you holded the coins one year or more, then it is tax free.

How is it in scandinavia? I guess it variates from country to country in scandinavia?
I heard in denmark there is no tax for bitcoin profits? Is this right?

Regards,
Serpens66

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mobel
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June 01, 2017, 08:14:53 AM
 #2

Hi Smiley

sorry for writing in english here, but it is hard to know in english section who is from which country.

I'm from germany and would like to know how private bitcoin profits are taxed in scandinavia .
Just the profits from normal trading on exchanges and holding coins not longer then one year.

In germany it is a "private sale" and the profits are added to your income and taxed as such, except you holded the coins one year or more, then it is tax free.

How is it in scandinavia? I guess it variates from country to country in scandinavia?
I heard in denmark there is no tax for bitcoin profits? Is this right?

Regards,
Serpens66

I don't know how it is in other Scandinavian countries than Denmark. But all profits gained from trading cryptocurrency is tax free. However any losses can not be tax refunded (like it is with "regular" forex and stock trading).
However I would expect that to be changed in the future once it becomes more mainstream to do cryptocurrency trading.
For more infomation on the Danish tax law see http://www.skat.dk/skat.aspx?oId=2156173&vId=0 (In Danish).
Serpens66
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June 01, 2017, 03:35:35 PM
 #3

I don't know how it is in other Scandinavian countries than Denmark. But all profits gained from trading cryptocurrency is tax free. However any losses can not be tax refunded (like it is with "regular" forex and stock trading).
However I would expect that to be changed in the future once it becomes more mainstream to do cryptocurrency trading.
For more infomation on the Danish tax law see http://www.skat.dk/skat.aspx?oId=2156173&vId=0 (In Danish).
Thank you very much Smiley
Unfortuenatly Google Translate is not very good for this danish text..
But according to google the word "business" is mentioned quite often.
So I just want to make sure:
The "tax free" thing is for private bitcoin traders, right? Or is it only for business?
I would like to know how is it for private traders, but in case it is more favorable to have a business, this would be also nice to know.

In case it will change some day, when do you expect the change to be effective at the earliest? Half year after announcing? Or longer?

Mit Cointracking behältst du die Übersicht über all deine Trades und Gewinne. Sogar ein Tool für die Steuer ist dabei Wink
Testen ist kostenlos und mit dem obigen Link bekommst du 10% Rabatt auf die kostenpflichtigen Pakete. Thread                                        Great Freeware Game: Clonk Rage
Für instant Handel auch am Wochenende bei bitcoin.de sollte man das Fidorkonto verwenden Smiley FAQ Ref-Link: Registrieren
mobel
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June 01, 2017, 05:37:17 PM
 #4

I am not quite sure how it is for businesses (I think I sent the wrong link). But if you are a private person, all profits gained from crypto trading is tax free.

I don't expect the law about this to be changed any time soon. Most Danes associate Bitcoin with "evil hacker money", especially after wannacry. The Danish government presented a so called "2025 plan" a few days ago which states a bunch of stuff public institutions should look at before the year 2025. And that included "blockchain" technology.

So to put it short. They'll probably change the law sooner or later, but I would not expect any changes at least not for a couple of years.
Celsiuss
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June 07, 2017, 11:08:10 PM
 #5

Norway decided to take taxes on bitcoins, but it was later reversed because it's a virtual currency with no bank or owner and is completely decentralized. http://e24.no/boers-og-finans/bitcoin/myndighetene-snur-naa-faar-bitcoin-momsfritak/23920267

who cares
FiNaLize
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June 08, 2017, 08:18:42 AM
 #6

It is Taxfree now, but I expect some changes in the future from the tax authorities.

Serpens66
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June 08, 2017, 12:48:59 PM
 #7

Thank you both Smiley
It is Taxfree now, but I expect some changes in the future from the tax authorities.
you also mean norway? Or which country?

@celsiuss:
Google translate is translating your article to "VAT" (value added tax).
But I'm asking about tax on bitcoin profits (I hope it is self explanatory in every country that there is no VAT on any bitcoin trade)

Mit Cointracking behältst du die Übersicht über all deine Trades und Gewinne. Sogar ein Tool für die Steuer ist dabei Wink
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June 11, 2017, 05:01:54 PM
 #8

og hvordan er det i sverige ?

Serpens66
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June 16, 2017, 03:23:24 AM
 #9

Is there some authoriy I can write to/call ?

Eg. for UK I got the website gov.uk which seems to be from the goverment itself with alot of helpful information. I was able to call them and got detailed information about bitcoin tax situation.

Is there something like this in Denmark and other countries?

Mit Cointracking behältst du die Übersicht über all deine Trades und Gewinne. Sogar ein Tool für die Steuer ist dabei Wink
Testen ist kostenlos und mit dem obigen Link bekommst du 10% Rabatt auf die kostenpflichtigen Pakete. Thread                                        Great Freeware Game: Clonk Rage
Für instant Handel auch am Wochenende bei bitcoin.de sollte man das Fidorkonto verwenden Smiley FAQ Ref-Link: Registrieren
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June 16, 2017, 11:59:10 AM
 #10

I suppose you could give Skat a call (the danish tax authorities). But prepare for some waiting time Smiley
http://skat.dk/SKAT.aspx?oId=967&dmy=969&x=980

The danish country code is +45.
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June 16, 2017, 08:36:00 PM
 #11

For info about Swedish Taxes look for the contact info here https://www.skatteverket.se/

Serpens66
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June 17, 2017, 10:21:17 AM
 #12

Great! Thank you both, I will report back when I called them at Monday/Tuesday Smiley

Mit Cointracking behältst du die Übersicht über all deine Trades und Gewinne. Sogar ein Tool für die Steuer ist dabei Wink
Testen ist kostenlos und mit dem obigen Link bekommst du 10% Rabatt auf die kostenpflichtigen Pakete. Thread                                        Great Freeware Game: Clonk Rage
Für instant Handel auch am Wochenende bei bitcoin.de sollte man das Fidorkonto verwenden Smiley FAQ Ref-Link: Registrieren
Serpens66
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June 19, 2017, 08:06:09 AM
 #13

For info about Swedish Taxes look for the contact info here https://www.skatteverket.se/
I found something about bitcoin at the website:
https://www.skatteverket.se/funktioner/sok/sok.4.64a656d113f4c7597011b3.html?query=bitcoin
Can you read the most recent articles and tell me what they mean? (reading google translate is difficult)

In the first one from 2017 it seems sweden is using capital gains tax on bitcoin? Google is translating it with "should", so it will be changed to capital gains? Is there written when? Or is this just a open letter from some politican saying "it should..." but nothing will happen? (this happens alot that some politicans say how something should be, but never do anything Cheesy)

edit:
Denmark tax authority is unfortunately not any help at all... They just said they don't know and the only way is to write them and pay 400 DKK for it.
Paying this amount for such a simple question is just ridiculous...
@ mobel:
Are you sure there is no tax for private traders on bitcoin profits? Maybe you have some kind of source? The coindesk article ( http://www.coindesk.com/denmark-declares-bitcoin-trades-tax-free/ ) seems to refer to this :
http://www.skat.dk/skat.aspx?oId=2156173&vId=0
As far as I understand this is about the question, if a company, that is accepting bitcoin as payment, has to pay tax/declare losses on price changes during getting the bitcoin and selling them. The authorities came to concluison that the company is not forced to accept bitcoin as payment method, so they can't declare losses on bitcoin price changes (and also don't pay tax on income through this).
But I think this article does not say anything about bitcoin traders.

Or is any article/link about bitcoin here for private bitcoin traders?: http://skat.dk/skat.aspx?oId=3039&q=bitcoin
Maybe this one? http://skat.dk/SKAT.aspx?oID=2048521 (a user at reddit linked it https://www.reddit.com/r/dkfinance/comments/4lx1ls/bitcoin_in_denmark_buying_selling_taxes/)

Mit Cointracking behältst du die Übersicht über all deine Trades und Gewinne. Sogar ein Tool für die Steuer ist dabei Wink
Testen ist kostenlos und mit dem obigen Link bekommst du 10% Rabatt auf die kostenpflichtigen Pakete. Thread                                        Great Freeware Game: Clonk Rage
Für instant Handel auch am Wochenende bei bitcoin.de sollte man das Fidorkonto verwenden Smiley FAQ Ref-Link: Registrieren
mobel
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June 20, 2017, 06:03:39 AM
 #14

Yup.. All gains from crypto trading in Denmark is tax free.
I think the article you linked to on Coindesk pretty much sums it up:
Quote
"We see the outcome of bitcoin transactions as a result of something purely private. Therefore, any gains on bitcoin are tax-exempt, and losses are not deductible."

However if you're working and get paid in Bitcoin, you'll have to declare that. But any gains or losses as a consequence of trading or speculation is tax-exempt.
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June 30, 2017, 08:37:52 AM
 #15

Hi Smiley

sorry for writing in english here, but it is hard to know in english section who is from which country.

I'm from germany and would like to know how private bitcoin profits are taxed in scandinavia .
Just the profits from normal trading on exchanges and holding coins not longer then one year.

In germany it is a "private sale" and the profits are added to your income and taxed as such, except you holded the coins one year or more, then it is tax free.

How is it in scandinavia? I guess it variates from country to country in scandinavia?
I heard in denmark there is no tax for bitcoin profits? Is this right?

Regards,
Serpens66

I don't know how it is in other Scandinavian countries than Denmark. But all profits gained from trading cryptocurrency is tax free. However any losses can not be tax refunded (like it is with "regular" forex and stock trading).
However I would expect that to be changed in the future once it becomes more mainstream to do cryptocurrency trading.
For more infomation on the Danish tax law see http://www.skat.dk/skat.aspx?oId=2156173&vId=0 (In Danish).

This is correct! I got the same answer from my accountant, who looked it up.
Serpens66
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June 30, 2017, 02:25:23 PM
 #16

This is correct! I got the same answer from my accountant, who looked it up.
this is strange. Cause everyone I asked who is not bitcoin related, is telling me that there is and never will be any speculation profit that won't be taxed in denmark, cause literally everything is taxed in denmark.

And I was told that in any of this articles http://skat.dk/skat.aspx?oId=3039&q=bitcoin is written, that if you plan to make money with trading bitcoin, it is taxed. It is only not taxed if you made money "by accident" so eg you bought them to use them (to pay something else) and after that you have some btc left which are worth more now. In this case it is tax free.
And the article from coindesk has nothing to do with the question if profits from trading are taxed or not.

That's why I'm forced now to make a binding request at skat, which will take several weeks/months. And after that I hope I have a 100% sure answer...

@amlas:
Does your accountant speak english/german? I would like to ask him, if he is 100% sure and can prove it by sources.

Mit Cointracking behältst du die Übersicht über all deine Trades und Gewinne. Sogar ein Tool für die Steuer ist dabei Wink
Testen ist kostenlos und mit dem obigen Link bekommst du 10% Rabatt auf die kostenpflichtigen Pakete. Thread                                        Great Freeware Game: Clonk Rage
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June 30, 2017, 06:54:26 PM
 #17

This is not a unique problem for norway or denmark. I live in Oslo and in spite of all my effort, i couldn´t get any solid answer from state authorities. This is a commen problem as i have been investigating it in 2 other countries as well. So unless you are in a country like Japan or Netherland, you will never get answer for all your questions. The real problem here is that people that are representing legal authorities, most politicians and even most of their advisors have no clue about Bitcoin.

I do a lot of freelance work in Bicoin business. I called "skatteetaten" a few times in the past to find out more about tax regulations. First, they do not understand, if you try to explain they tell you that there is no legal liabilities for it.

Norway is one of the most heavily taxed country in the world with a total tax burden of roughly 45% of GDP and personal income tax rates border 55% or even higher depending on your income. How stupid is that they can´t hire a few cryptocurrency experts to work in tax department which will end up with them collecting more taxes. So if they do not give a s.it, why would i run after them with money in my hands.
 Especially after my recent problems with them.... I give you an advise, in a country where your every single bank transaction is closely watched, make yourself a favour and keep your money in Bitcoin. Remember! Bitcoin is not only about decentralized and cheap currency solution, but also financial Freedom.




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June 30, 2017, 07:18:34 PM
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This is not a unique problem for norway or denmark. I live in Oslo and in spite of all my effort, i couldn´t get any solid answer from state authorities. This is a commen problem as i have been investigating it in 2 other countries as well. So unless you are in a country like Japan or Netherland, you will never get answer for all your questions. The real problem here is that people that are representing legal authorities, most politicians and even most of their advisors have no clue about Bitcoin.

I do a lot of freelance work in Bicoin business. I called "skatteetaten" a few times in the past to find out more about tax regulations. First, they do not understand, if you try to explain they tell you that there is no legal liabilities for it.

Norway is one of the most heavily taxed country in the world with a total tax burden of roughly 45% of GDP and personal income tax rates border 55% or even higher depending on your income. How stupid is that they can´t hire a few cryptocurrency experts to work in tax department which will end up with them collecting more taxes. So if they do not give a s.it, why would i run after them with money in my hands.
 Especially after my recent problems with them.... I give you an advise, in a country where your every single bank transaction is closely watched, make yourself a favour and keep your money in Bitcoin. Remember! Bitcoin is not only about decentralized and cheap currency solution, but also financial Freedom.



I do understand your frustration mate, but it is not right to advice people to hide their assets. Yes, taxes are quite high in Norway, in fact it is one of the highest in the world, but this is also what makes this country such a good place. High standards, good health care, free education and etc. If people start using Bitcoin to hide their assets, it will cause some serious problems in the future. However, i do aggree with you about legal departments not having enough eligiable employements. I just think this think take time, and somehow it takes little longer in skandinavia...


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July 01, 2017, 08:45:15 PM
 #19

Google translate is translating your article to "VAT" (value added tax).
But I'm asking about tax on bitcoin profits (I hope it is self explanatory in every country that there is no VAT on any bitcoin trade)
That is correct, it was only the VAT part that was dropped. You still have to pay capital gains tax for profits, but losses can be deducted. Depending on how much time you spend trading they could also decide that the profits should be taxed as income from work, which has a higher rate. It's not possible to know in advance what it will be.
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July 04, 2017, 07:55:20 PM
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Norway: In 2017 the capital gains tax is 24%. If you sell bitcoin, you pay 24% on profits. I hope you have proof of your purchases, because you may need to provide that later down the line. Any bitcoin holdings you have are supposed to be taxed with fortune tax, which is ~0.85% per year of your bitcoins (only applies if your fortune is 1 480 000 kr or more).

You can read the full details of the tax agency's opinion here:
Code:
http://www.skatteetaten.no/no/Bedrift-og-organisasjon/rapportering-og-bransjer/e-handel/skattemessige-konsekvenser-ved-bruk-av-bitcoins-og-andre-virtuelle-valutaer-for-privatpersoner/

I am of the personal opinion that fortune tax does not apply, the tax agency started claiming VAT is required on bitcoin, but changed their mind after EU came out with a declaration regarding bitcoin. No laws were changed. It is therefore possible that the tax agency is wrong on both fortune tax and capital gains tax, although I have no good legal argument against capital gains tax at this time and I will not reveal my argument against fortune tax as to not provide time for agency to figure out a comeback.

This is not a unique problem for norway or denmark. I live in Oslo and in spite of all my effort, i couldn´t get any solid answer from state authorities. This is a commen problem as i have been investigating it in 2 other countries as well. So unless you are in a country like Japan or Netherland, you will never get answer for all your questions. The real problem here is that people that are representing legal authorities, most politicians and even most of their advisors have no clue about Bitcoin.

I do a lot of freelance work in Bicoin business. I called "skatteetaten" a few times in the past to find out more about tax regulations. First, they do not understand, if you try to explain they tell you that there is no legal liabilities for it.

Norway is one of the most heavily taxed country in the world with a total tax burden of roughly 45% of GDP and personal income tax rates border 55% or even higher depending on your income. How stupid is that they can´t hire a few cryptocurrency experts to work in tax department which will end up with them collecting more taxes. So if they do not give a s.it, why would i run after them with money in my hands.
 Especially after my recent problems with them.... I give you an advise, in a country where your every single bank transaction is closely watched, make yourself a favour and keep your money in Bitcoin. Remember! Bitcoin is not only about decentralized and cheap currency solution, but also financial Freedom.



I do understand your frustration mate, but it is not right to advice people to hide their assets. Yes, taxes are quite high in Norway, in fact it is one of the highest in the world, but this is also what makes this country such a good place. High standards, good health care, free education and etc. If people start using Bitcoin to hide their assets, it will cause some serious problems in the future. However, i do aggree with you about legal departments not having enough eligiable employements. I just think this think take time, and somehow it takes little longer in skandinavia...
Taxes is the antithesis of anything good. If you want a better society the best you can do is to avoid taxes and encourage others to do the same. The more people who operate outside of the state the better for society. Taxes does not produce wealth, it distributes it. It's a strike of luck that Norway has its oil reserves, but the luck will run out.


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