U.S. Will Need to Create 'Unprecedented' 35 Million New Jobs if Immigration Bill

[myrkul]

I think we're arguing at cross purposes here. For an example of what I am actually advocating, look at how the black market in Russia saved many people from starving in the '90's.

I'm certain it did just that, that being a critical function of a black market, which grows in proportion to needs.

But it's not clear how that shows what you advocate.  I have some guesses, but rather than state them, would you like to clarify?

In a word, Agorism. The black and gray markets can and should supplant the "white" one, for as many goods and services as possible, up to and including "government" services.

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[Coinseeker]

You're apparently not very familiar with our "redneck", "evangelical" sect of America. ....

I guess I'm reasonably familiar with that bunch, as best as I can imagine who you may be describing.  

The assertion was this:

the thinking here in the US by some, is that only immigrants with white skin are exceptable and thus "American".  The rest are leaches, takers and criminals and should be deported immediately to preserve the "real America."

Although fundamentalists no doubt differ with you on many, many topics, I do not think any sizable minority of them fit such a description.  Checking into it a bit, I do find a "Christian Identity" estimated at 2000-50,000 members which would fit the first part of the proposition.  Of that a further subgroup might agree with your second assertion.

But what do I know?  Some of us have run into a bad dude or group from time to time, me included.

I WISH those numbers were true.  They wouldn't even be worth mentioning.  Unfortunately with a population of over 300 million, you are talking at minimum single digit millions and probably double digit.  I'll make it easy, just look at the southern states.  Again doesn't mean everyone, so no one needs to get all defensive.  But this is the sect of the country that started a civil war to preserve slavery, fought against civil rights, fightings against amnesty (immigration) and gay rights, just to name a few.

It's a serious group that has dominated America since its founding and decade after decade, they become smaller and smaller.  And that's the only reason we have a president of color is because they are now dominated by progressives and minorities.  This is an ideological bunch that claims "Christianity" but who's actions produce nothing but separation, division, hatred and bigotry.  

Those are the sad facts and remain the stains on the fabric of America.  The good news is, good will toward one another is slowly winning out.  Now, I'm going to have to excuse myself from this thread because it's not doing me any good, so I'm going back to focus on Bitcoins.  

[anyroll]

The U.S. among many other nations is on a road to decline. Get out of USD and in Bitcoin!!! 

[townf]

Immigrants, illegal or not it doesn't matter, have been outcompeting US citizens for jobs here for the past 15 years. This article is a bunch of bullshit hype meant for comsumption by the braindead.

Furthermore, the gov has facilitated the outsourcing of entire domestic industries overseas for the past 20 years at the behest of its corporate masters. It's totally criminal.

Here's what caused the Mexican invasion, get enlightened:
http://www.webofdebt.com/excerpts/chapter-22.php

The whole book is a must-read, google for the pdf of it or go buy it.

[Spendulus]

Immigrants, illegal or not it doesn't matter, have been outcompeting US citizens for jobs here for the past 15 years. This article is a bunch of bullshit hype meant for comsumption by the braindead.

Furthermore, the gov has facilitated the outsourcing of entire domestic industries overseas for the past 20 years at the behest of its corporate masters. It's totally criminal.

Here's what caused the Mexican invasion, get enlightened:
http://www.webofdebt.com/excerpts/chapter-22.php

The whole book is a must-read, google for the pdf of it or go buy it.

It's all the big corporations and the bankers that are the problem!

Suuuurrrreeee....

[Spendulus]

I WISH those numbers were true.  They wouldn't even be worth mentioning.  Unfortunately with a population of over 300 million, you are talking at minimum single digit millions and probably double digit.  I'll make it easy, just look at the southern states.  Again doesn't mean everyone, so no one needs to get all defensive.  But this is the sect of the country that started a civil war to preserve slavery, fought against civil rights, fightings against amnesty (immigration) and gay rights, just to name a few.

It's a serious group that has dominated America since its founding and decade after decade, they become smaller and smaller.  And that's the only reason we have a president of color is because they are now dominated by progressives and minorities.  This is an ideological bunch that claims "Christianity" but who's actions produce nothing but separation, division, hatred and bigotry.  

Those are the sad facts and remain the stains on the fabric of America.  The good news is, good will toward one another is slowly winning out.  Now, I'm going to have to excuse myself from this thread because it's not doing me any good, so I'm going back to focus on Bitcoins.   ;

I must not have met the haters of whom you speak.  I certainly have met haters, from all backgrounds of religion and athiest and don't care, and from all sections of the country and other countries.  The idea that some type of geographic area and some sort of supposedly Christian ideology  brings forth some virulence similar to Al Queda is certainly quite interesting.  Unfortunately, and demonstratably, the major haters of the world are Muslim, and within that large grouping, the minor sect and believers in the writings and additions to the Koran of Sayyid Qutb. 

[townf]

Immigrants, illegal or not it doesn't matter, have been outcompeting US citizens for jobs here for the past 15 years. This article is a bunch of bullshit hype meant for comsumption by the braindead.

Furthermore, the gov has facilitated the outsourcing of entire domestic industries overseas for the past 20 years at the behest of its corporate masters. It's totally criminal.

Here's what caused the Mexican invasion, get enlightened:
http://www.webofdebt.com/excerpts/chapter-22.php

The whole book is a must-read, google for the pdf of it or go buy it.

It's all the big corporations and the bankers that are the problem!

Suuuurrrreeee....

Holy wow, where have you been? LOL

[myrkul]

Immigrants, illegal or not it doesn't matter, have been outcompeting US citizens for jobs here for the past 15 years. This article is a bunch of bullshit hype meant for comsumption by the braindead.

Furthermore, the gov has facilitated the outsourcing of entire domestic industries overseas for the past 20 years at the behest of its corporate masters. It's totally criminal.

Here's what caused the Mexican invasion, get enlightened:
http://www.webofdebt.com/excerpts/chapter-22.php

The whole book is a must-read, google for the pdf of it or go buy it.

It's all the big corporations and the bankers that are the problem!

Suuuurrrreeee....

Holy wow, where have you been? LOL

Big corporations and bankers are problems... but are they the problem?

[Spendulus]

Immigrants, illegal or not it doesn't matter, have been outcompeting US citizens for jobs here for the past 15 years. This article is a bunch of bullshit hype meant for comsumption by the braindead.

Furthermore, the gov has facilitated the outsourcing of entire domestic industries overseas for the past 20 years at the behest of its corporate masters. It's totally criminal.

Here's what caused the Mexican invasion, get enlightened:
http://www.webofdebt.com/excerpts/chapter-22.php

The whole book is a must-read, google for the pdf of it or go buy it.

It's all the big corporations and the bankers that are the problem!

Suuuurrrreeee....

Holy wow, where have you been? LOL

Big corporations and bankers are problems... but are they the problem?

Lol you beat me to it....

We are, of course, looking for THE Problem...

It is like the They, in They Live.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp_K8prLfso

 It is the Capitalized version of The Problem.

Then again, having been around our southern border and Mexico for a long time, I could seriously discuss it but the above linked to "webofdebt" states it's premises to which facts must be bent to fit, well, even in the URL...

[townf]

Immigrants, illegal or not it doesn't matter, have been outcompeting US citizens for jobs here for the past 15 years. This article is a bunch of bullshit hype meant for comsumption by the braindead.

Furthermore, the gov has facilitated the outsourcing of entire domestic industries overseas for the past 20 years at the behest of its corporate masters. It's totally criminal.

Here's what caused the Mexican invasion, get enlightened:
http://www.webofdebt.com/excerpts/chapter-22.php

The whole book is a must-read, google for the pdf of it or go buy it.

It's all the big corporations and the bankers that are the problem!

Suuuurrrreeee....

Holy wow, where have you been? LOL

Big corporations and bankers are problems... but are they the problem?

Lol you beat me to it....

We are, of course, looking for THE Problem...

It is like the They, in They Live.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp_K8prLfso

 It is the Capitalized version of The Problem.

I love that movie!!!

Please enlighten me on what the problem is. Is it brown people wandering around the desert looking for your job (for the past 20 years) and chinese people wandering around china looking for your job? Is that the problem? Or is it our secret reptilian overlords from planet x?

I can't tell what context you're in. Don't be all mysterious about it. Gimme something i can work with already!

I will however go out on a limb to say a problem is that the hilariously bogus insinuation that we need to create 35 million new jobs all of a sudden, but not earlier, is probably being swallowed whole by flag waving morons.

Then again, having been around our southern border and Mexico for a long time, I could seriously discuss it but the above linked to "webofdebt" states it's premises to which facts must be bent to fit, well, even in the URL...

Not sure what you mean by all that, especially the URL bit. Hopefully you made it past the first paragraph or even the URL since you made a comment. It doesn't sound like you did.

If your nation's currency took a total crap on itself like the peso did and the economy was tanked and you could make a living the next country over, I'm pretty sure you'd go do it. Not much to refute there. I've travelled greater distances than this for better work myself.

So therefore if you are in the know about how the peso actually crashed which is different than the link I posted, I would love to hear it.

[myrkul]

Please enlighten me on what the problem is. Is it brown people wandering around the desert looking for your job (for the past 20 years) and chinese people wandering around china looking for your job? Is that the problem? Or is it our secret reptilian overlords from planet x?

I can't tell what context you're in. Don't be all mysterious about it. Gimme something i can work with already!

What organization enables big corporations to even exist as corporations? What organization gives the bankers the monopoly power to print (and overprint) our money? What organization determined that on this side of the imaginary line in the desert there should be one set of economic policies, and on that side, another?

Think about it, I'm sure you'll come up with the answer.

[townf]

Please enlighten me on what the problem is. Is it brown people wandering around the desert looking for your job (for the past 20 years) and chinese people wandering around china looking for your job? Is that the problem? Or is it our secret reptilian overlords from planet x?

I can't tell what context you're in. Don't be all mysterious about it. Gimme something i can work with already!

What organization enables big corporations to even exist as corporations? What organization gives the bankers the monopoly power to print (and overprint) our money? What organization determined that on this side of the imaginary line in the desert there should be one set of economic policies, and on that side, another?

Think about it, I'm sure you'll come up with the answer.

Who totally outright pwns this organization you speak of, that you for some reason think i cannot see?

You have simultaneously insulted my intelligence and exposed your own giant naivete, good job numbnuts. And thanks for the link to wikipedia about what a corporation is LOL.

Who does this organization bail out over and over again, at the crippling expense of the public?

If this organization's members are democratically elected, why do their decisions and policies not favor the public but rather the multinational/finance bloc?

Who owns the information sources from where voters who elect the members of this organization get their information?

If any organization, including the one you speak of, owes 16 trillion dollars to something, then that something gets to tell the organization what to do, not the other way around.

Who campaign finances the people who want to join this organization? Who hires the irresistable lobbies which dictate the legislation produced by this damn mysterious organization?

Who benefits the most from this organization? Who really controls this organization? Who totally uses this organization you speak of. This organization is totally eat up, dominated.

Think about it, I'm sure you'll come up with the answer.

[myrkul]

u mad?

Does it really surprise you that a monopoly fucks it's "customers"?

Especially after it got bought out?

[townf]

u mad?

Does it really surprise you that a monopoly fucks it's "customers"?

Especially after it got bought out?

Not sure what point you're trying to make there.

Even though i was half joking calling for a clarification of the problem, I figured somebody would try to tell me something i didn't know, not something somebody thinks everybody knows, gimme a break

The government is totally owned, it's not the problem. The fact that it is owned is probably the problem. I really hope you don't think the government is the one pulling the strings.

[myrkul]

Does it really surprise you that a monopoly fucks it's "customers"?

Especially after it got bought out?

Not sure what point you're trying to make there.

That the fact that there are strings to be pulled is the problem.

If you wanted to take over America, would you kick down the door of every home in the US?

[townf]

Does it really surprise you that a monopoly fucks it's "customers"?

Especially after it got bought out?

Not sure what point you're trying to make there.

That the fact that there are strings to be pulled is the problem.

If you wanted to take over America, would you kick down the door of every home in the US?

Well apparently an effective way to do it is to trick the government into borrowing money instead of issuing it, thereby mortgaging itself into submission, and then use the proceeds to gain control of the media and to purchase government policy and legislation.

Here is truly the real problem: the collective ignorance, complacency, brainwash, and apathy of the vast majority of regular people. This is a direct result of an anti-competitive media cartel, which is one of many strings, but probably the most important one. So maybe you could say the media is the problem.

A people need a competitive media in order feed themselves accurate information, especially if you're attempting to have a democracy. Only then can people collectively understand how to disable the other strings that can be pulled.

This 35 million jobs story is a perfect example of misinformation and distraction from the crux of a real issue. It's a total pivot, just like most other stories are in the MSM.

Therefore, the problem is t.v. There you have it.

[myrkul]

Therefore, the problem is t.v. There you have it.

No, the problem is Democracy. Rational ignorance. If the perceived benefit of doing the proper research is outweighed by the effort required to do that research, most people will not do that research. Given how much an individual vote actually affects the outcome of an election, the average Joe has very little incentive to make sure he votes "correctly," or even at all. When you base your government on a logical fallacy, you should not be surprised when it falls apart.

Compound that fact with the previously mentioned tendency for a monopoly to abuse it's customers, to provide the least and lowest quality service, for as much money as can be wrung out of them, and the end result of any government, but especially a democratically elected one, is blindingly obvious.

I have a proposed solution, but you won't like it.

[Spendulus]

Immigrants, illegal or not it doesn't matter, have been outcompeting US citizens for jobs here for the past 15 years. This article is a bunch of bullshit hype meant for comsumption by the braindead.

Furthermore, the gov has facilitated the outsourcing of entire domestic industries overseas for the past 20 years at the behest of its corporate masters. It's totally criminal.

Here's what caused the Mexican invasion, get enlightened:
http://www.webofdebt.com/excerpts/chapter-22.php

The whole book is a must-read, google for the pdf of it or go buy it.

It's all the big corporations and the bankers that are the problem!

Suuuurrrreeee....

Holy wow, where have you been? LOL

Big corporations and bankers are problems... but are they the problem?

Lol you beat me to it....

We are, of course, looking for THE Problem...

It is like the They, in They Live.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp_K8prLfso

 It is the Capitalized version of The Problem.

I love that movie!!!

Please enlighten me on what the problem is. Is it brown people wandering around the desert looking for your job (for the past 20 years) and chinese people wandering around china looking for your job? Is that the problem? Or is it our secret reptilian overlords from planet x?

I can't tell what context you're in. Don't be all mysterious about it. Gimme something i can work with already!

I will however go out on a limb to say a problem is that the hilariously bogus insinuation that we need to create 35 million new jobs all of a sudden, but not earlier, is probably being swallowed whole by flag waving morons.

Then again, having been around our southern border and Mexico for a long time, I could seriously discuss it but the above linked to "webofdebt" states it's premises to which facts must be bent to fit, well, even in the URL...

Not sure what you mean by all that, especially the URL bit. Hopefully you made it past the first paragraph or even the URL since you made a comment. It doesn't sound like you did.

If your nation's currency took a total crap on itself like the peso did and the economy was tanked and you could make a living the next country over, I'm pretty sure you'd go do it. Not much to refute there. I've travelled greater distances than this for better work myself.

So therefore if you are in the know about how the peso actually crashed which is different than the link I posted, I would love to hear it.

I read a couple of pages, but the writer jumps back and forth between the 70's, 80's and 90's making assertions and cannot seem to hold a single idea and develop it.  It didn't seem worth continuing.

Regarding the cause of Mexico's problems, they go way back.  Back to Cortez taking the place over with his 400 soldiers.  Back to the mixing of the native weird excuse for religion with Catholicism, which to an extent continues to today.  Back to the establishment of a class society where those with Spanish blood are highly esteemed, and those of Indian blood are not.

Back to Pancho Villa, a murderer and rapist of innocent Americans, who was nonetheless sheltered by the Mexican people.

There have been continual problems with Mexico, and there have been many devaluations of the peso.  At the core is corruption, and the inability to see contracts honored.  To even attempt to focus on one devaluation of a currency is ridiculous, and to assert that somehow some group manipulated to it's benefit the drop in value when a currency moves from fixed to floating is carrying the theory of top down control past the point where the top down control has been purposefully abandoned.

When a country moves from fixed exchange rates to floating, there are of course consequences.  They may be estimated by comparing the black market to the official exchange rates.

[townf]

No, the problem is Democracy. Rational ignorance. If the perceived benefit of doing the proper research is outweighed by the effort required to do that research, most people will not do that research. Given how much an individual vote actually affects the outcome of an election, the average Joe has very little incentive to make sure he votes "correctly," or even at all. When you base your government on a logical fallacy, you should not be surprised when it falls apart.

Compound that fact with the previously mentioned tendency for a monopoly to abuse it's customers, to provide the least and lowest quality service, for as much money as can be wrung out of them, and the end result of any government, but especially a democratically elected one, is blindingly obvious.

Democracy works in some environments, but it might be too fragile to live very long.

If the media is not free and competitive, you don't have a democracy anymore.

The act of feeding bad information to the public automatically subverts democracy by default. It's like constantly misinforming the king in a monarchy.

The achilles heel of democratic government is the media. So is monopolized money creation for that matter. The media needs to be paid, and so do government officials.

The collective joe shmoe could make it work if he was constantly blasted with accurate information instead of misinformation and omissions, because as you said, he does not act on the incentive to be a private investigator all the time.

This 35 million jobs story is a perfect example of how strings are pulled in a fake democracy pro-wrestling match.

I have a proposed solution, but you won't like it.

Go ahead try me.

To even attempt to focus on one devaluation of a currency is ridiculous, and to assert that somehow some group manipulated to it's benefit the drop in value when a currency moves from fixed to floating is carrying the theory of top down control past the point where the top down control has been purposefully abandoned.

This is debatable, but instead of debating it right this second, I just want to point out that this debate was totally suppressed when it could have happened.

Instead, as always, with the 35 million job story, we just get a bunch of hype and facilitation of posturing about the fallout, which totally ignores the larger situation.

[myrkul]

I have a proposed solution, but you won't like it.

Go ahead try me.

Rational ignorance is the problem. Voters have little incentive to make sure they're getting the right news, making the right decisions, or even voting at all. So the question is, how to give them that incentive? Give them exactly what they ask for. If the reason democracy is so fragile is that each individual vote matters so little in the grand scheme of things, we should make each vote matter a great deal - to the person making it. Why do we not hear about massive numbers of shirts not fitting? Because every person can get the shirt that fits him. Why do we not hear about massive disappointment in fast food? Because every person can get the fast food that they want. It's been said that we pick our presidents the same way we pick our laundry detergent, so why don't we hear about how low the "approval rating" is of Tide detergent? Because every person gets the detergent they want.

The market works so well for everything else, why do we give the most important things to a monopoly?