Bitcoin Forum
December 04, 2021, 02:33:52 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 22.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 ... 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 [212] 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 ... 309 »
  Print  
Author Topic: [ANN] TenX: Making Blockchain assets spendable  (Read 331489 times)
MalReynolds2
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 44
Merit: 0


View Profile
December 05, 2017, 01:22:56 AM
 #4221

Monaco is really running away. Is there any news on the PAY front?

Yeah...Julian is talking about Cryptokitties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff-MptS53z8
1638585232
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1638585232

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1638585232
Reply with quote  #2

1638585232
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1638585232
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1638585232

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1638585232
Reply with quote  #2

1638585232
Report to moderator
1638585232
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1638585232

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1638585232
Reply with quote  #2

1638585232
Report to moderator
1638585232
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1638585232

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1638585232
Reply with quote  #2

1638585232
Report to moderator
Deltadollar
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 120
Merit: 10


View Profile
December 05, 2017, 02:30:55 AM
 #4222

So cute!
ceaa
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 56
Merit: 0


View Profile
December 05, 2017, 02:41:09 AM
 #4223

New update from Julian!

https://twitter.com/tenxwallet/status/937871322243219456
MalReynolds2
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 44
Merit: 0


View Profile
December 05, 2017, 02:57:40 AM
 #4224

JULIAN SPEAKS:

https://blog.tenx.tech/tenx-pay-token-structure-update-4f19be727870

Crypto exchanges seeking to list the PAY token and those on which the PAY token is already listed have requested for some clarifications on the PAY token structure, which were essential for the listing of the PAY token. As we believe that the information we shared with them is also relevant to our community, we would like to list some summarised points below:

Crypto exchanges are not registered as platforms that can trade securities and other regulated products, so they need to ensure that every token or digital asset which they accept on their platforms is not a security or any other type of regulated product. For the overall industry, such due diligence efforts are part of a positive process that will bring more transparency and discipline to all market participants.
To date, PAY token holders have not received any reward of any kind.

The PAY token was never intended to be a security or any other type of regulated product. To further improve its features, we are undertaking a review and update of its current structure and no rewards of any kind will be distributed to PAY token holders under such current structure.

The finalised terms and conditions in relation to rights of PAY token holders and the membership and loyalty programme, based on the updated structure, will be made available to you soon. Such terms and conditions will clarify that the PAY token is not intended to constitute a security or any other type of regulated product (such as an investment contract, debenture or unit in a collective investment scheme).

For a token not to be seen as a security or any other type of regulated product, there must not be any expectation of any receipt of investment returns by its holders. Therefore, we would be unable to provide any assurance that any rewards will be distributed to PAY token holders even under the updated structure and PAY token holders should not expect to receive any rewards even under the updated structure.

As shared by us on multiple occasions, this structure is to ensure that PAY tokens are widely accepted for trading on as many reputable crypto exchanges as possible.

The updated structure will keep crypto exchanges from receiving any potential rewards from PAY tokens, because such exchanges are not intended to be members of the membership or loyalty programme envisioned by us.

We are doing our best to complete the update of the PAY token structure as efficiently and quickly as possible with our legal advisors, and will provide a further update with more details when we are ready. We will update you with a blog post followed by a YouTube Q&A.
We are confident that you, our community and PAY token holders will love the updated structure of the PAY token with the additional features.

We hope the above points clarify any existing uncertainties surrounding the PAY token for our community and partners.

legendbtc
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 770
Merit: 500


View Profile
December 05, 2017, 03:02:51 AM
 #4225

monaco and tenx can co exsist imo, so i dont think choosing either side is bad i just like tenx is big on social engagement and transprancy so i bet on that horse, as an investor i think investing alittle in both is a good plan, but im laughing at centra i cant take that card seriously

Yes, centra seems to be very laughing because they mentioned very high promises before ICO, but now they are not even talking about the cards and when they are going to ship those. At least tenx is responding to people question.
btc_uzr
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476
Merit: 250


let's have some fun


View Profile
December 05, 2017, 03:32:40 AM
 #4226

What is minimal amount of PAY tokens needs for get 0.5% holder reward?

No minimum friend as far as I recall.

I'm scrating my head about three things, I do not understand. Maybe one can enlighten me, please.

https://blog.tenx.tech/tenx-q-a-livestream-and-transcript-10th-oct-2017-146c826cf66c
Quote
17) If we get rid of cards, will PAY holders still get the reward?

We cannot guarantee the 0.5% on any payment system, because on some payment systems we may not have 0.5% With any new payment systems that we are adding, we may be subject to different conditions. If we only get 0.25% from someone, we cannot forward you 0.5%. That said, we are not intending to remove the 0.5% from the debit card, because the commissions are there.

1) Do they consider to get rid of cards, if so what is their business then, if not why mention it in first place ?

2) They can't even offer the promised 0.5%, because they themselves may just get 0.25% and also have to cover operations, wages, offices, etc from it ?


3) My last question is the most important one. The only value driver for the PAY token is the 0.5% reward mentioned in the whitepaper as far as I understand. To justify today's token price of $2.46 right now derived from 0.5% of all transactions means:

104,661,310 tokens * $2,46 = $257,466,822.6 need to be collected

To make this happen we need 200 * <$ value of 0.5%> = $51,493,364,520
(close to a third of today's BTC marketcap: $167,024,234,822)

Under consideration that company tokens will get rewards as well, sooner or later (otherwise they would not have any use case or value) it becomes worse as you can imagine: 205,218,256 PAY tokens * $2,46 * 200 = $100,967,381,952

Let's calculate with 12k per person spent via the card in average, quite high, but may happen:
$12,000 * 0,005 = $60 collected (0.5% reward)

So, to collect $51,493,364,520  TenX needs: $51,493,364,520 / $60 per person and yr  = 858,222,742 the amount of customer years required (one customer 10 years is equal to 10 customers one year).

Let's take a 10yrs forcast time (valid for some long term investors), it means TenX needs to have 85,822,274 customers spending $12k in average per year, and all company tokens must be destroyed. Otherwise the number roughly doubles to ~170,000,000 customers. If we do the math with 0.25% rewards it is >300 million customers required.
Just to break even on today's token price, while BTC keeps rising. And break even means not to make any profit at all.

=> Why does anyone buy it at these prices  ?

Tell me, please, WHAT do I miss here??
* Is my math based on wrong facts and weird assumptions?
* Is there any obviously error I can't spot ?
* Or sth else I'm too blind to see ?

I'm VERY confused, since it seems I miss a few major points and thus look like a fool not getting the actual point.

To be clear: I want a fact-based discussion about it, a major bit missing in my picture, please help me to get it resolved. If you call my valid question just FUD, I'll call you just a marketmanipulator in return, because you are obviously NOT interessted in facts but play with ppl's emotions, only.

Thanks to whoever is willing to point me to the missing bits, much appreciated.
You actually managed to silence the TenX fanboyz, not one of them can answer your question without admitting the project lacks the ability to make a profit for card/token holders as suggested.

Well done using the truth to point out the failures of this scammy over promising under delivering project.

Meantime Dr Julian still has a cult following and is the savior for one and all.   Cheesy

Haha no he simply got the analysis wrong and nobody has corrected him yet. Let's go through it bit by bit now.

1) I don't even know what you are asking here but no their main business isn't to get rid of cards. It is to make it so that you can spend BTC, ETH, DASH, ERC20 tokens and more through their app. This is step 1 with the ultimate goal like others mentioned to be able to spend fiat

2) LOL what kind of random assumption is this? They ran an ICO and that is what pays for the office, wages, etc etc. They said several times now the 0.5 rewards will be coming soon either end of year or early next year there is nothing hidden here.

3) First off you use a wrong # in $2.46 but I will let that slide because that isn't the biggest mistake here. Your biggest mistake in the calculations is using the circulating supply as the right number. This is wildly incorrect as devs, founders, exchanges, none of these individuals will receive the dividend. I obviously don't know how many tokens this is but simply put your calculation will be off 100%.

Then after that because that is incorrect the rest is moot, but even then I couldn't understand what you were trying to do at all. It is a complete fail please re go back look at the WP and do some hwk. Because why are you even going 104m tokens x 2.46 for price justification? That is what the marketcap is it has nothing to do with payouts. Payouts are based on how much people spend and this will be distributed through the tokens that qualify which is the only math you should be doing imho.

to 1) and 2) I was wondering about the weird wording, since it implied somehow that they may stop their card business, and if not it raises the question why talk about

Your 3) point is complete bs, and you know it, they lie about it, if their tokens will never receive rewards why not destroy those worthless tokens, that will never receive any rewards ?

Further you assume my math is wrong, but you fail to present more accurate numbers.
I think you bought way too high this worthless piece of bits+bytes and you need to hype hot air to pass your losses on others.

The 0.5 rewards you mention, while they say themselves they earn from the 3% merchant side only 0.25%, and can't pass 0.5%, wher edo they come from? In addition the question then remains how the company can be sustainable? Yes, for now they have all your money to travel around the world, but it will be gone one day - and then ?


104,661,310 tokens * $2,46 = $257,466,822.6 need to be collected

To make this happen we need 200 * <$ value of 0.5%> = $51,493,364,520
(close to a third of today's BTC marketcap: $167,024,234,822)

Under consideration that company tokens will get rewards as well, sooner or later (otherwise they would not have any use case or value) it becomes worse as you can imagine: 205,218,256 PAY tokens * $2,46 * 200 = $100,967,381,952

Let's calculate with 12k per person spent via the card in average, quite high, but may happen:
$12,000 * 0,005 = $60 collected (0.5% reward)

So, to collect $51,493,364,520  TenX needs: $51,493,364,520 / $60 per person and yr  = 858,222,742 the amount of customer years required (one customer 10 years is equal to 10 customers one year).
Bad assumptions give bad results Smiley
1) 12k usd per person per year -> most ppl who get tenx card were early in crypto bussines = they got cash.
I got card for 1 month. My spending was ~11k usd in last month using card. My early spending should be close to 120k-150k usd per year. Average probably should be close to 50% or average yearly salary of person using card or more like 75%. I would say it is safe to assume 30k usd per year per user.

2) You don't count total value equal to 1 year earnings Smiley never ever!.
This company will not case to exist in 1 year so this assumption that company vaporizes in 1 year is extremely faulty giving huge error.
Look at Tesla P/E = infinity Smiley
Netflix P/E = 189
Amazon P/E = 297
Yelp P/E = 489

(P/E is Price/Earning)

Average for tech companies is ~30. Good companies with good potential growth in future are 100+. So Tenx should have at least P/E=100.


So after fixing base assumptions, let's fix your calculations:

104,661,310 tokens * $2,46 /100(p/e) = $2,574,668 need to be collected

To make this happen we need 200 * <$ value of 0.5%> = $51,493,364

$30,000 * 0,005 = $150 collected (0.5% reward)

So, to collect $2,574,668 TenX needs: $2,574,668 / $150 per person per year = 17164 customer  using card.

As far as i can know they will get about 25k working card till end of 2017.
So according to this calculation price NOW should be 2.46$(value used for calculations)*25000/17164 (really working  cards/amount from calculation) = 3,58USD per 1 PAY token.

If they get 50k working cards value should be 7,16USD, 100k working cards 35,8 USD.
1k working cards -> 1Pay = 0.35USD  Grin

Everything now depends how many cards were shipped! This is very valuable insider info.



there are 300 million ppl in crypto, rich like you, who will spent 11k per month in average?
343,289 customer years they need to justify the price you say, if they got rich customers only
and company tokens can be destroyed as they never receive any rewards
and the price development can catch up with BTC all the way long ?

you also hype hot air in my eyes, that is far from being reasonable numbers

I'm sorry for your losses, but take it as a man, you gambled/were fooled, do not try to pass it on to crypto-newbiews, that is not fair.


Actually it comes even worse, no rewards at all.
For a token not to be seen as a security or any other type of regulated product, there must not be any expectation of any receipt of investment returns by its holders. Therefore, we would be unable to provide any assurance that any rewards will be distributed to PAY token holders even under the updated structure and PAY token holders should not expect to receive any rewards even under the updated structure.

..and Thou shalt spread the coin in the name of cryptography for eternity
riskthebiscuit
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 504
Merit: 251


blackjack.fun


View Profile
December 05, 2017, 03:46:56 AM
 #4227

It says should not expect it does not say it won't happen. I think that wording is done to be vague on purpose lets wait and see what updated structure they come out with who knows it could be better than what was in place now. At the end of the day though they don't want to get snipped what is worse for going a small amount of money back or having PAY token delisted from every exchange because it is a security? The latter obviously would hurt way more, lets be calm and rational about this and not over react (I know what I just said but lets try shall we).

BLACK
JACK
.FUN
   ▄▄▄▄▄▀▀███▄▄ ▄
 ▀▀██████▀▀▀▀███▄█
 ███▄▄▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▄▀█▀█▌
▐██             ██▌
 █▌             ▐█
 ▐▀██████▄██████▀▌
 ▐ ▀████▀ ▀████▀ ▌
 █▌             ▐█
▐██▄ ▄▄▄███▄▄▄ ▄██▌
 ▐████▀▀▄▄▄▀▀████▌
  ███████████████
   ▀█▀███████▀█▀
     ▀ █████ ▀
.▄█████████████████████████▄
███▀█████████▀█████████▀███
██▄ ▄███████▄ ▄███████▄ ▄██
███▀▀████████▀████████▀▀███
███▌  ▄▀▀██▀▄█▄▀██▀▀▄  ▐███
████ █▄▀█▀▄██▀██▄▀█▀▄█ ████
████▌▐██▄██▀▄▀▄▀██▄██▌▐████
█████ ██████▄▀▄██████ █████
█████▌▐█████████████▌▐█████
██████▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄██████
██████ █▄█▄█▄█▄█▄█▄█ ██████
██████▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄██████
▀█████████████████████████▀
▄█████████████████████████▄
█████▀▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▀▀█████████
███▀▄██  █   █  ██▄▀███████
███ █▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀█ ██▀▀▀██
███ █ ███ ███ ███ █ ██ ▀ ██
███ █ ███ ███ ███ █ ███ ███
███ █ ▀▀▀ ▀▀▀ ▀▀▀ █ ███ ███
███ ████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀████ ███ ███
███ ████ ▀ ▀ ▀ ████ ▄ █ ███
███ █▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀█ █ ▄▄███
███ █ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ █ ▄▄█████
███▄▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▄███████
▀█████████████████████████▀
      ▄█
     ███▌
 ██▄ ▀█▀
 ▀██▌▄▀▄██
█▄ ▀ █ █▀
▀██▄▐▌  ▄█
▄ ▀▀▐▌ ██▀
 ███ █ ▀ ▄█▄
  ▀▀▀ █  ██▀
  ███▄ █ ▀ ▄█▄
   ▀▀▀▀ ▀▄ ███
     ▄██▄ ▀▄▀
      ▀▀▀▀  ▀▄
      █▄
     ▐███
      ▀█▀ ▄██
    ██▄▀▄▐██▀
     ▀█ █ ▀ ▄█
    █▄  ▐▌▄██▀
    ▀██ ▐▌▀▀ ▄
  ▄█▄ ▀ █ ███
  ▀██  █ ▀▀▀
▄█▄ ▀ █ ▄███
███ ▄▀ ▀▀▀▀
 ▀▄▀ ▄██▄
▄▀  ▀▀▀▀
|
0.28%
HOUSE EDGE
|
24HRS
FREEROLLS
|.█▀▀▀











█▄▄▄
.
PLAY NOW
▀▀▀█











▄▄▄█
Metros
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 308
Merit: 100


View Profile
December 05, 2017, 03:54:42 AM
 #4228

Wow I am shocked.

I told friends and family to invest in TenX and now suddenly they say because of regulations there will be no rewards?!?!.

F*** that. selling mine and gonna SMS now to my friends and family to sell theirs ASAP. jeez I am really, really upset.

I really loved this project but the token is worth $0 now, it never had a use case and cannot have a proper use case rather then sending rewards.

R.I.P TenX  Undecided
ceaa
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 56
Merit: 0


View Profile
December 05, 2017, 04:12:34 AM
 #4229

Unexpected development from TenX, but let's see how it plays out. Right now everyone seems emotional.
wavespump
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 728
Merit: 500


View Profile
December 05, 2017, 04:13:23 AM
 #4230

TenX is in easy to use, but the price is very undervalued. You know the price is stagnant for a while, I will collect more coins when the price goes down further.
maranello1561
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 167
Merit: 100


View Profile
December 05, 2017, 05:31:30 AM
 #4231

Hahahaha what a bunch of scammers. Took all the money and now saying wont share the fees. Greedy Singaporean bastards
Deltadollar
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 120
Merit: 10


View Profile
December 05, 2017, 05:37:10 AM
 #4232

I keep seeing " read between the lines" sorry but that is total sketch. Who operates a visa card company that needs the users to read between the lines? Mother of God this is bad.
Wekkel
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3010
Merit: 1527


yes


View Profile
December 05, 2017, 05:38:54 AM
 #4233

If the PAY token will not generate income, it is worse than it already was. It was overpriced IMHO but without income derived from it, it would serve absolutely no purpose. If paying dividend is problematic the TenX team’s only viable option seems to convert the PAY token from cash flow generating to a real token use. That means: offering services/products exclusively against payment of PAY tokens or let it wither away as a kind of magic the gathering token without real purpose.

I would appreciate other thoughts on how the token could be made useful.

Metros
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 308
Merit: 100


View Profile
December 05, 2017, 06:05:18 AM
 #4234

If the PAY token will not generate income, it is worse than it already was. It was overpriced IMHO but without income derived from it, it would serve absolutely no purpose. If paying dividend is problematic the TenX team’s only viable option seems to convert the PAY token from cash flow generating to a real token use. That means: offering services/products exclusively against payment of PAY tokens or let it wither away as a kind of magic the gathering token without real purpose.

I would appreciate other thoughts on how the token could be made useful.


They could offer services/products and pay in PAY token for it like SALT.

But in this situation the price will drop as it will be very overpriced (and less demand) compare to dividends they offer in the first place.
Future2Play
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 476
Merit: 101



View Profile
December 05, 2017, 06:50:48 AM
 #4235

Dont panic guys https://gyazo.com/55e5003fd310675522f7ff003c46ae67

xibeijan
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1232
Merit: 1001


View Profile
December 05, 2017, 09:02:10 AM
 #4236

Monaco is really running away. Is there any news on the PAY front?

Yeah...Julian is talking about Cryptokitties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff-MptS53z8

Distractions!  They talk about everything, except why TenX is not delivering on promising to PAY holders.   Embarrassed Embarrassed

Unfortunately hodling just because Julian is a "smart guy" is not enough, because Julian cannot code himeself.

Always remember what this market is really about.  It's about an anonymous hacker named Satoshi and blockchain technology, not a centralized card payment service that's afraid to pay dividends to PAY holders and covers their own ass instead.  We still think TenX has some promise, but it's uncertain because of regulation and we cannot recommend TenX until Julian gets the legals sorted out.

Notable projects 2019: Semux, Dero, Wagerr, BEAM
xibeijan
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1232
Merit: 1001


View Profile
December 05, 2017, 09:06:56 AM
 #4237

If the PAY token will not generate income, it is worse than it already was. It was overpriced IMHO but without income derived from it, it would serve absolutely no purpose. If paying dividend is problematic the TenX team’s only viable option seems to convert the PAY token from cash flow generating to a real token use. That means: offering services/products exclusively against payment of PAY tokens or let it wither away as a kind of magic the gathering token without real purpose.

I would appreciate other thoughts on how the token could be made useful.

It could have been useful, but TenX are afraid of legal issues so have not pay the promised dividends to PAY holders. So now it is useless and getting delisted because even exchange operators are afraid of legals saying PAY is asset not blockchain.  It's a good idea, so if legals clear up we will consider TenX again.

Notable projects 2019: Semux, Dero, Wagerr, BEAM
xibeijan
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1232
Merit: 1001


View Profile
December 05, 2017, 09:12:36 AM
 #4238

JULIAN SPEAKS:

https://blog.tenx.tech/tenx-pay-token-structure-update-4f19be727870

Crypto exchanges seeking to list the PAY token and those on which the PAY token is already listed have requested for some clarifications on the PAY token structure, which were essential for the listing of the PAY token. As we believe that the information we shared with them is also relevant to our community, we would like to list some summarised points below:

Crypto exchanges are not registered as platforms that can trade securities and other regulated products, so they need to ensure that every token or digital asset which they accept on their platforms is not a security or any other type of regulated product. For the overall industry, such due diligence efforts are part of a positive process that will bring more transparency and discipline to all market participants.
To date, PAY token holders have not received any reward of any kind.

The PAY token was never intended to be a security or any other type of regulated product. To further improve its features, we are undertaking a review and update of its current structure and no rewards of any kind will be distributed to PAY token holders under such current structure.

The finalised terms and conditions in relation to rights of PAY token holders and the membership and loyalty programme, based on the updated structure, will be made available to you soon. Such terms and conditions will clarify that the PAY token is not intended to constitute a security or any other type of regulated product (such as an investment contract, debenture or unit in a collective investment scheme).

For a token not to be seen as a security or any other type of regulated product, there must not be any expectation of any receipt of investment returns by its holders. Therefore, we would be unable to provide any assurance that any rewards will be distributed to PAY token holders even under the updated structure and PAY token holders should not expect to receive any rewards even under the updated structure.

As shared by us on multiple occasions, this structure is to ensure that PAY tokens are widely accepted for trading on as many reputable crypto exchanges as possible.

The updated structure will keep crypto exchanges from receiving any potential rewards from PAY tokens, because such exchanges are not intended to be members of the membership or loyalty programme envisioned by us.

We are doing our best to complete the update of the PAY token structure as efficiently and quickly as possible with our legal advisors, and will provide a further update with more details when we are ready. We will update you with a blog post followed by a YouTube Q&A.
We are confident that you, our community and PAY token holders will love the updated structure of the PAY token with the additional features.

We hope the above points clarify any existing uncertainties surrounding the PAY token for our community and partners.



TenX should refund PAY holders as they have reneged on their promises from the ICO!!!
WTF... when they do ICO they say they pay dividend... now they say "no promises".  What a joke.  Now they can either refund PAY holders or face a class action lawsuit!

Notable projects 2019: Semux, Dero, Wagerr, BEAM
xibeijan
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1232
Merit: 1001


View Profile
December 05, 2017, 09:16:57 AM
 #4239

As shared by us on multiple occasions, this structure is to ensure that PAY tokens are widely accepted for trading on as many reputable crypto exchanges as possible.

Trading at zero!!!!

This is just the type of problem crypto was invented to solve.  TenX, your project sucks and you've left your ICO participants as bag holders.  Expect class action.

Notable projects 2019: Semux, Dero, Wagerr, BEAM
awaran
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 11
Merit: 0


View Profile
December 05, 2017, 09:25:56 AM
 #4240

What is minimal amount of PAY tokens needs for get 0.5% holder reward?

No minimum friend as far as I recall.

I'm scrating my head about three things, I do not understand. Maybe one can enlighten me, please.

https://blog.tenx.tech/tenx-q-a-livestream-and-transcript-10th-oct-2017-146c826cf66c
Quote
17) If we get rid of cards, will PAY holders still get the reward?

We cannot guarantee the 0.5% on any payment system, because on some payment systems we may not have 0.5% With any new payment systems that we are adding, we may be subject to different conditions. If we only get 0.25% from someone, we cannot forward you 0.5%. That said, we are not intending to remove the 0.5% from the debit card, because the commissions are there.

1) Do they consider to get rid of cards, if so what is their business then, if not why mention it in first place ?

2) They can't even offer the promised 0.5%, because they themselves may just get 0.25% and also have to cover operations, wages, offices, etc from it ?


3) My last question is the most important one. The only value driver for the PAY token is the 0.5% reward mentioned in the whitepaper as far as I understand. To justify today's token price of $2.46 right now derived from 0.5% of all transactions means:

104,661,310 tokens * $2,46 = $257,466,822.6 need to be collected

To make this happen we need 200 * <$ value of 0.5%> = $51,493,364,520
(close to a third of today's BTC marketcap: $167,024,234,822)

Under consideration that company tokens will get rewards as well, sooner or later (otherwise they would not have any use case or value) it becomes worse as you can imagine: 205,218,256 PAY tokens * $2,46 * 200 = $100,967,381,952

Let's calculate with 12k per person spent via the card in average, quite high, but may happen:
$12,000 * 0,005 = $60 collected (0.5% reward)

So, to collect $51,493,364,520  TenX needs: $51,493,364,520 / $60 per person and yr  = 858,222,742 the amount of customer years required (one customer 10 years is equal to 10 customers one year).

Let's take a 10yrs forcast time (valid for some long term investors), it means TenX needs to have 85,822,274 customers spending $12k in average per year, and all company tokens must be destroyed. Otherwise the number roughly doubles to ~170,000,000 customers. If we do the math with 0.25% rewards it is >300 million customers required.
Just to break even on today's token price, while BTC keeps rising. And break even means not to make any profit at all.

=> Why does anyone buy it at these prices  ?

Tell me, please, WHAT do I miss here??
* Is my math based on wrong facts and weird assumptions?
* Is there any obviously error I can't spot ?
* Or sth else I'm too blind to see ?

I'm VERY confused, since it seems I miss a few major points and thus look like a fool not getting the actual point.

To be clear: I want a fact-based discussion about it, a major bit missing in my picture, please help me to get it resolved. If you call my valid question just FUD, I'll call you just a marketmanipulator in return, because you are obviously NOT interessted in facts but play with ppl's emotions, only.

Thanks to whoever is willing to point me to the missing bits, much appreciated.
You actually managed to silence the TenX fanboyz, not one of them can answer your question without admitting the project lacks the ability to make a profit for card/token holders as suggested.

Well done using the truth to point out the failures of this scammy over promising under delivering project.

Meantime Dr Julian still has a cult following and is the savior for one and all.   Cheesy

Haha no he simply got the analysis wrong and nobody has corrected him yet. Let's go through it bit by bit now.

1) I don't even know what you are asking here but no their main business isn't to get rid of cards. It is to make it so that you can spend BTC, ETH, DASH, ERC20 tokens and more through their app. This is step 1 with the ultimate goal like others mentioned to be able to spend fiat

2) LOL what kind of random assumption is this? They ran an ICO and that is what pays for the office, wages, etc etc. They said several times now the 0.5 rewards will be coming soon either end of year or early next year there is nothing hidden here.

3) First off you use a wrong # in $2.46 but I will let that slide because that isn't the biggest mistake here. Your biggest mistake in the calculations is using the circulating supply as the right number. This is wildly incorrect as devs, founders, exchanges, none of these individuals will receive the dividend. I obviously don't know how many tokens this is but simply put your calculation will be off 100%.

Then after that because that is incorrect the rest is moot, but even then I couldn't understand what you were trying to do at all. It is a complete fail please re go back look at the WP and do some hwk. Because why are you even going 104m tokens x 2.46 for price justification? That is what the marketcap is it has nothing to do with payouts. Payouts are based on how much people spend and this will be distributed through the tokens that qualify which is the only math you should be doing imho.

to 1) and 2) I was wondering about the weird wording, since it implied somehow that they may stop their card business, and if not it raises the question why talk about

Your 3) point is complete bs, and you know it, they lie about it, if their tokens will never receive rewards why not destroy those worthless tokens, that will never receive any rewards ?

Further you assume my math is wrong, but you fail to present more accurate numbers.
I think you bought way too high this worthless piece of bits+bytes and you need to hype hot air to pass your losses on others.

The 0.5 rewards you mention, while they say themselves they earn from the 3% merchant side only 0.25%, and can't pass 0.5%, wher edo they come from? In addition the question then remains how the company can be sustainable? Yes, for now they have all your money to travel around the world, but it will be gone one day - and then ?


104,661,310 tokens * $2,46 = $257,466,822.6 need to be collected

To make this happen we need 200 * <$ value of 0.5%> = $51,493,364,520
(close to a third of today's BTC marketcap: $167,024,234,822)

Under consideration that company tokens will get rewards as well, sooner or later (otherwise they would not have any use case or value) it becomes worse as you can imagine: 205,218,256 PAY tokens * $2,46 * 200 = $100,967,381,952

Let's calculate with 12k per person spent via the card in average, quite high, but may happen:
$12,000 * 0,005 = $60 collected (0.5% reward)

So, to collect $51,493,364,520  TenX needs: $51,493,364,520 / $60 per person and yr  = 858,222,742 the amount of customer years required (one customer 10 years is equal to 10 customers one year).
Bad assumptions give bad results Smiley
1) 12k usd per person per year -> most ppl who get tenx card were early in crypto bussines = they got cash.
I got card for 1 month. My spending was ~11k usd in last month using card. My early spending should be close to 120k-150k usd per year. Average probably should be close to 50% or average yearly salary of person using card or more like 75%. I would say it is safe to assume 30k usd per year per user.

2) You don't count total value equal to 1 year earnings Smiley never ever!.
This company will not case to exist in 1 year so this assumption that company vaporizes in 1 year is extremely faulty giving huge error.
Look at Tesla P/E = infinity Smiley
Netflix P/E = 189
Amazon P/E = 297
Yelp P/E = 489

(P/E is Price/Earning)

Average for tech companies is ~30. Good companies with good potential growth in future are 100+. So Tenx should have at least P/E=100.


So after fixing base assumptions, let's fix your calculations:

104,661,310 tokens * $2,46 /100(p/e) = $2,574,668 need to be collected

To make this happen we need 200 * <$ value of 0.5%> = $51,493,364

$30,000 * 0,005 = $150 collected (0.5% reward)

So, to collect $2,574,668 TenX needs: $2,574,668 / $150 per person per year = 17164 customer  using card.

As far as i can know they will get about 25k working card till end of 2017.
So according to this calculation price NOW should be 2.46$(value used for calculations)*25000/17164 (really working  cards/amount from calculation) = 3,58USD per 1 PAY token.

If they get 50k working cards value should be 7,16USD, 100k working cards 35,8 USD.
1k working cards -> 1Pay = 0.35USD  Grin

Everything now depends how many cards were shipped! This is very valuable insider info.



there are 300 million ppl in crypto, rich like you, who will spent 11k per month in average?
343,289 customer years they need to justify the price you say, if they got rich customers only
and company tokens can be destroyed as they never receive any rewards
and the price development can catch up with BTC all the way long ?

you also hype hot air in my eyes, that is far from being reasonable numbers

I'm sorry for your losses, but take it as a man, you gambled/were fooled, do not try to pass it on to crypto-newbiews, that is not fair.


Actually it comes even worse, no rewards at all.
For a token not to be seen as a security or any other type of regulated product, there must not be any expectation of any receipt of investment returns by its holders. Therefore, we would be unable to provide any assurance that any rewards will be distributed to PAY token holders even under the updated structure and PAY token holders should not expect to receive any rewards even under the updated structure.

I feel a bit left out.  I did a pretty good write up on both pros and cons that you didn't get right.  It took me a really long time to fact check your post and it looks like you didn't read it Sad
Pages: « 1 ... 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 [212] 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 ... 309 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!