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Author Topic: Decentralized products do not worth (yet)?  (Read 816 times)
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June 08, 2017, 07:47:55 AM
 #1

I do not say decentralization is bad, I am just questioning whether we wish to have decentralized services enough powerfully for people to develop them.

I have discussed with some developer companies that COULD develop us decentralized services, but they said no paying customer ever wanted them anything to decentralize and decentralizing complex systems have certain costs.

Isn't this "we don't trust centralized things" an illusion, after all?


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June 09, 2017, 12:24:52 PM
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First of all, what kind of service(s) do you have in mind? Second, it's not like you have to have everything decentralised. In terms of Bitcoin usage, most people doesn't seem to have a problem in using centralised, 3rd party services, as long as the Bitcoin network itself remains decentralised/trustless.

I could imagine there would be a demand for certain type of decentralised services, i.e. crypto-to-crypto exchanges or gambling sites (free from KYC/AML + no risk of fraud), but those will have to provide the same type of features and be as convenient as the currently existing ones.

People tend to be lazy and averse to change unless they have a solid incentive to switch to something new.
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June 09, 2017, 06:55:41 PM
 #3

I have discussed with some developer companies that COULD develop us decentralized services, but they said no paying customer ever wanted them anything to decentralize and decentralizing complex systems have certain costs.
If you look into anything with bit different perspective literally we are already living in decentralized environment except financially. Services are provided my multiple companies, you choose your own preferred and you may demand as per your willingness and budget. When we are having multiple options for anything, one central authority will lose their power and control.

Unfortunately we never got chances to think about another momentary system against our government's and that is the reason we were into centralized financial system so far. Now we got bitcoins and from that we realized the importance of decentralization.

I mean to say there is no need of special decentralized products nor services. One good example here : We have lot of exchanges - centralized services, still we can have trades with our neighbors/friends, chances for decentralization or you can choose your preferred exchange based on lower fee, means you have freedom to choose. That must be a the biggest point of having decentralization.



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June 09, 2017, 07:21:49 PM
 #4

The only reason people don't trust decentralized services that I can imagine it's because there isn't guarantees like the centralized by governments.

Like the Bitcoin services (wallets, casinos, exchanges...), you put your money there, but it's always risky, because if tomorrow the service closes, they disappear and you lose everything, in centralized services you have some guarantees, like an insurance.

Is there any other reason that gives advantage to centralized services?

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June 10, 2017, 10:04:07 PM
 #5

As I see, the parties who could pay the most for decentralization are companies, but for them doing something very new and letting the legal guarantee go may be too pricy. And then there is the difficulty of deciding in which type of project the decentralization would worth.

But the question then is, if it's the situation, isn't "decentralization" a bit overhyped?


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June 10, 2017, 10:24:14 PM
 #6

But the question then is, if it's the situation, isn't "decentralization" a bit overhyped?

Yes and no.
No one cares about using centralised 3rd party service for $5 purchase. But note how people are freaking out when popular exchanges or gambling sites are having issues, people start to speculate and wonder whether their funds are gone forever.

So it all comes down to what kind of service (and functionality trade offs) are you talking about.
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June 10, 2017, 10:48:55 PM
 #7

Probably the most obvious example of a decentralized service I can think of is bittorrent with its distributed networking model.

There are disadvantages & advantages as anyone who has used bittorrent knows.

Distributed networking and decentralized software paradigms may be non standard somewhat esoteric areas most software engineers and IT workers have little or no knowledge in.

Its probably not fair to ask them that question, unless they're involved with blockchain they likely have no knowledge or experience with decentralized systems.

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June 11, 2017, 09:51:31 AM
 #8

Its probably not fair to ask them that question, unless they're involved with blockchain they likely have no knowledge or experience with decentralized systems.

Projects they have no experience with mean risk to them. So, I understand that they prefer a solution, which is closer to their traditional solution. But sometimes you, who see potential in decentralized systems, have an idea and would like to ask their support. In that case, you should find the common language with them somehow.


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June 11, 2017, 08:38:15 PM
 #9

Projects they have no experience with mean risk to them. So, I understand that they prefer a solution, which is closer to their traditional solution. But sometimes you, who see potential in decentralized systems, have an idea and would like to ask their support. In that case, you should find the common language with them somehow.

Computers being such specialized fields, common ground may not be easy to come across.

What paradigm could a software engineer use to analogize decentralized vs centralized systems?

The only things that come to mind are bittorrent which is non standard in its distributed model.

Maybe centralized monolithic kernel OS designs versus more decentralized micro kernel designs?

Its not that easy to illustrate a comparison between centralized and decentralized software paradigms in a way that anyone with a basic degree would understand it?  

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June 16, 2017, 01:40:05 AM
 #10

People have somehow trust issues and also security issues for any decentralization product or service that's why it do not worth that much even today except the use of bitcoin.



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June 16, 2017, 04:56:27 AM
 #11

That's true, we people saying that we won't like centralized system or services. Only because of centralized functioning the world has got such a big development and decentralization provides some added help that provides the users good comfort in some form. As OP said it's an illusion, because of its virtual presence.


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June 16, 2017, 08:00:19 AM
 #12

decentralized services actually don't have any cost, take open bazar for example, the cost are near zero, you just download the client and buy stuff that other user sell

trust can also be overcome with the right escrow, always in open bazar they use one, this is also no different than calling an esrow to sell or buy items here on the market section

i believe decentralization is the future, everything eventually will be decentralized

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June 19, 2017, 08:40:51 PM
 #13

People have somehow trust issues and also security issues for any decentralization product or service that's why it do not worth that much even today except the use of bitcoin.

That's true, we people saying that we won't like centralized system or services. Only because of centralized functioning the world has got such a big development and decentralization provides some added help that provides the users good comfort in some form. As OP said it's an illusion, because of its virtual presence.

Yes, let us remember how an exploit can throw back the whole network, which back-throw does not really good for a critical service that was running in the network.

Its not that easy to illustrate a comparison between centralized and decentralized software paradigms in a way that anyone with a basic degree would understand it?  

I understand your example about the technicals, but among businessmen, it more comes to the question: How will we have more money from this idea? It would be good to see some decentralized business models.

decentralized services actually don't have any cost, take open bazar for example, the cost are near zero, you just download the client and buy stuff that other user sell

The first thought I too came to was the cost-efficiency. Hosting your now-server-services from a decentralized network reduces your server costs much. But won't we still pay for the availability?



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June 20, 2017, 02:56:26 AM
 #14

I understand your example about the technicals, but among businessmen, it more comes to the question: How will we have more money from this idea? It would be good to see some decentralized business models.

I'm not 100% certain what a decentralized business model would look like.  :/

Elon Musk's powerwall battery system decentralizes power grids/aquaponics systems decentralize food production? Not certain if these could be considered decentralized business models?

In terms of software engineering, there are a lot of articles about blockchain being used by large corporations like walmart, Maersk and IBM to keep track of shipping/items.


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June 21, 2017, 08:15:09 PM
 #15

Its probably not fair to ask them that question, unless they're involved with blockchain they likely have no knowledge or experience with decentralized systems.

Projects they have no experience with mean risk to them. So, I understand that they prefer a solution, which is closer to their traditional solution. But sometimes you, who see potential in decentralized systems, have an idea and would like to ask their support. In that case, you should find the common language with them somehow.

Risk to them is not a problem.

When new technologies like this arise, you first have a group of pioneers (e.g. Overstock, Microsoft), which begin to support the technology.  Hype completely flows around these companies as they don't care about speculation and they're in it for more options to get fiat.

Gradually smaller companies get involved because they learn by example and find dramatically easier ways to implement blockchain technology into their business.  At first it's treated as a gimmick, but gradually it's seen as legitimate.

You're talking about a permanent solution to a problem that's temporary anyway.  Decentralised systems inherently can have lower transaction costs because trusted intermediaries are hard to come by.  The point is a trustless system.

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June 22, 2017, 07:04:26 AM
 #16

The first thought I too came to was the cost-efficiency. Hosting your now-server-services from a decentralized network reduces your server costs much. But won't we still pay for the availability?

availability of what? products? in a p2p network you just connect to other servers and you are done, not any additional cost is needed

the bad thing is that the price of the item you want to purchase are all a bit off, everyone just set his own random value for the item he want to sell

and most of the time i can't find anything on open bazar

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