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Author Topic: WARNING! Bitcoin will soon block small transaction outputs  (Read 57737 times)
radiumsoup
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May 07, 2013, 01:27:10 PM
 #301

The storing of the entire "ledger" is one of the main problem with bitcoin, and really can only be solved by shifting to a time-based-balances summary.

The reason it takes bitcoin "users" 4 days to get started is the collection, unpack and interpretation of the blockchain.

Assuming by "users" you mean end users and not miners, Electrum has already started working on that, actually. Users creating a wallet do not need to download the blockchain to use their wallet. (Android support is super clunky so far, but it's a pretty neat solution to that issue.) Pruning resolved blocks is also a good suggestion, but the optimal solution is still going to be enforced minimum transaction fees.

http://electrum.org/
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yaffare
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May 07, 2013, 03:25:56 PM
 #302

You should make this a rule, not optional. Otherwise its way too confusing.

Nobody knows if he can send a micro-micro payment or not.

Also I think this is not censorship. Its just another rule.
You guys know that bitcoin is currently limited to 500.000 transactions per day.
Its far away from being ready for world-currency. So for now we should focus
on important transactions. In the future when bitcoin is ready, we can add micro-micro payments.



 
boonies4u
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May 07, 2013, 08:59:26 PM
 #303

You should make this a rule, not optional. Otherwise its way too confusing.

Nobody knows if he can send a micro-micro payment or not.

Also I think this is not censorship. Its just another rule.
You guys know that bitcoin is currently limited to 500.000 transactions per day.
Its far away from being ready for world-currency. So for now we should focus
on important transactions. In the future when bitcoin is ready, we can add micro-micro payments.

I think at this time that determining default behavior is more than enough. Making this a rule would make an unnecessary limit on what transactions miners can confirm and nodes can relay.
CanadianGuy
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May 08, 2013, 02:06:01 AM
 #304

You should make this a rule, not optional. Otherwise its way too confusing.

Nobody knows if he can send a micro-micro payment or not.

Also I think this is not censorship. Its just another rule.
You guys know that bitcoin is currently limited to 500.000 transactions per day.
Its far away from being ready for world-currency. So for now we should focus
on important transactions. In the future when bitcoin is ready, we can add micro-micro payments.



 

can this 500k/day limit ever be changed?
yaffare
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May 08, 2013, 10:15:56 AM
 #305

You should make this a rule, not optional. Otherwise its way too confusing.

Nobody knows if he can send a micro-micro payment or not.

Also I think this is not censorship. Its just another rule.
You guys know that bitcoin is currently limited to 500.000 transactions per day.
Its far away from being ready for world-currency. So for now we should focus
on important transactions. In the future when bitcoin is ready, we can add micro-micro payments.



 

can this 500k/day limit ever be changed?

sure, its the 1MB hardcoded block-size limit. but we cannot just increase this number. infrastructure for it has to be build first, you have to consider:
- block propagation time
- block-chain size
- solution to serve a lot of light-weight clients
and I guess theres much more stuff to improve in the code.
radiumsoup
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May 08, 2013, 01:47:25 PM
 #306

You should make this a rule, not optional. Otherwise its way too confusing.

Nobody knows if he can send a micro-micro payment or not.

Also I think this is not censorship. Its just another rule.
You guys know that bitcoin is currently limited to 500.000 transactions per day.
Its far away from being ready for world-currency. So for now we should focus
on important transactions. In the future when bitcoin is ready, we can add micro-micro payments.



 

can this 500k/day limit ever be changed?

sure, its the 1MB hardcoded block-size limit. but we cannot just increase this number. infrastructure for it has to be build first, you have to consider:
- block propagation time
- block-chain size
- solution to serve a lot of light-weight clients
and I guess theres much more stuff to improve in the code.
the rate of block solving could change... 5 minute block solving times instead of 10 minute, for instance. (After all the bitcoins are mined, anyway, or else the reward would have to change as well)
Shevek
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May 08, 2013, 02:09:46 PM
 #307

Bitcoin is not suitable for micro transactions. This is all. Nothing new  here, it was pretty obvious from the very beginning that all those dusters are allowed to shit into blockchain only until there are not enough more serious transactions to fill the blocks.


It's a pity read this assert.

The most useful thing of bitcoin is micropays. If you block them, bitcoin lose its main value and a new coin should enter the game.

Proposals for improving bitcoin are like asses: everybody has one
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lophie
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May 08, 2013, 02:31:54 PM
 #308

the rate of block solving could change... 5 minute block solving times instead of 10 minute, for instance. (After all the bitcoins are mined, anyway, or else the reward would have to change as well)

No they cannot.

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May 08, 2013, 02:36:14 PM
 #309

Bitcoin is not suitable for micro transactions. This is all. Nothing new  here, it was pretty obvious from the very beginning that all those dusters are allowed to shit into blockchain only until there are not enough more serious transactions to fill the blocks.


It's a pity read this assert.

The most useful thing of bitcoin is micropays. If you block them, bitcoin lose its main value and a new coin should enter the game.

See my signature to get your hands on such coins...

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radiumsoup
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May 08, 2013, 03:26:55 PM
 #310

the rate of block solving could change... 5 minute block solving times instead of 10 minute, for instance. (After all the bitcoins are mined, anyway, or else the reward would have to change as well)

No they cannot.
Why not, exactly? It wouldn't be very hard to change the protocol rules to allow the difficulty to remain low enough to generate blocks on a 5-minute average (or 8 or whatever) instead of 10.

I mean, I understand completely the whole "don't make blocks too fast or they'll be a bunch of orphans as competing blocks overlap" issue, but I don't know if there's any compelling evidence that it takes 5 entire minutes for a majority of nodes to verify a new block. (could be wrong, but I haven't seen any real world data to indicate there is.)
ProfMac
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May 08, 2013, 04:16:56 PM
 #311

And of course it is worth re-quoting,

This pull request is the first step towards a market between miners (who want higher fees) and merchants/users (who want lower fees, but also want their transactions confirmed). Miners can already control what fees they accept, this pull lets users control (very clumsily, improvements on the road map) the fee they are willing to pay.

Please re-read this before complaining Smiley



Is there a web page that gives some statistics on fees in a block?

The most interesting thing, I think, would be a plot of fee size and the delay before the transaction was included.

I try to be respectful and informed.
ProfMac
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May 08, 2013, 04:26:54 PM
 #312

You idiots know it's just a default setting that can be changed, right?

You can just change this in the config, and connect to a few nodes in pools that accept non-standard tx's.
+1

Knock yourselves out, no fork needed, just add this to your bitcoin.conf and convince a few big miners or mining pools to do the same:

    minrelaytxfee=0



Wow dude, you are a fucking Nazi.  Do as I say BITCOIN!

I'm done here if this change is made.  No one dictates what I should or shouldn't send.  I don't give a fuck who you are.

The way I read Gavin's comment, it is completely trivial to do as you want, just put another line in bitcoin.conf.


I try to be respectful and informed.
ProfMac
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May 08, 2013, 04:37:17 PM
 #313

I think I might set my dust limit way high like

Code:
minrelaytxfee=0.01

I'm sick of carrying around a whole lot of everybody else's crap. When you exist on dial-up connection and old hardware you might appreciate what the cost of TX actually are. Maybe a lot of the people spouting off about this are actually spoiled brats with high-end rigs and fibre-optic connections living on free electricity?  Wink

Then you shouldn't even be using a full node, go use a lightweight node, otherwise I see no reason to complain.

What?! Are you trying to censor me off the blockchain just because I have dial-up and old hardware? [sarc]Facist nazi rich prick![/sarc]

Is there a market for a DVD of the blockchain to bootstrap people with challenging circumstances?  Today, I have fiber optic to the wall of the house, it terminates within 3' of where I am typing.  My mother has a parcel of land next to her farm and it might be good for me to live close to her as she is getting old and lives alone, it is on a dialup.  I don't think I become less savvy or less important if I want to think about her safety and welfare.

I try to be respectful and informed.
ProfMac
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May 08, 2013, 04:55:49 PM
 #314

why the fuck would you send less than 5uBTC to ANYBODY?

My noob impression is that, if I send 1.000 000 00 BTC out, pay 0.001 000 000 BTC in fees, and I have 2 unspent transactions in my wallet of
0.005 000 00 BTC and 0.006 000 03 BTC, I think I will generate an output of 0.000 000 03 BTC as change.


I try to be respectful and informed.
jdillon
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May 09, 2013, 01:12:45 AM
 #315

It's a pity read this assert.

The most useful thing of bitcoin is micropays. If you block them, bitcoin lose its main value and a new coin should enter the game.

Micropays...

Not freedom from authority, not an inflation-proof digital asset, not anonymity, not democracy, but buying ringtones over the internet.

You lot are hilarious.
Le Happy Merchant
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May 09, 2013, 03:52:19 AM
 #316

Not a file sharing, but distributed DHT-like database HASH=BLOCK

DHT you say?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrotestosterone

Edit: I also think this change is rash.

kokjo
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You are WRONG!


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May 09, 2013, 08:29:09 AM
 #317

Not a file sharing, but distributed DHT-like database HASH=BLOCK

DHT you say?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrotestosterone

Edit: I also think this change is rash.
tard! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_hash_table

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
Shevek
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May 09, 2013, 08:41:19 AM
 #318

It's a pity read this assert.

The most useful thing of bitcoin is micropays. If you block them, bitcoin lose its main value and a new coin should enter the game.

Micropays...

Not freedom from authority, not an inflation-proof digital asset, not anonymity, not democracy, but buying ringtones over the internet.


Think whatever you want, but the real hook to catch people who wants to trade with bitcoin (not speculate, hoard, invest, and so on) is the possibility paying small amounts without commission penalties.

Bitcoin is for trade... isn't it?

You lot are hilarious.

I also love you.

Proposals for improving bitcoin are like asses: everybody has one
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bitcoinget
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May 09, 2013, 06:03:54 PM
 #319

Anyone know when 0.8.2 gets released?

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jgarzik
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May 09, 2013, 06:59:32 PM
 #320

Anyone know when 0.8.2 gets released?

Hopefully the first release candidate, will full release notes, will be posted soon (days not weeks).


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