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Author Topic: My girlfriends house in Germany  (Read 18589 times)
daybyter
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May 06, 2013, 12:20:44 PM
 #21

Is this house under monument protection?

Or are you allowed to renovate it any way you want it?

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May 06, 2013, 12:45:51 PM
 #22


Looking at google maps and the photos I don't think that is the property. It is close, but I think it is on the street called Schulstrabe. If you look where the curve on the street happens to the west.

Phil


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bitcoin_bob
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May 06, 2013, 01:20:54 PM
 #23

Wow, ok.....lots of activity and I only just woke up.

To answer questions from the first asked to the last;

Does it have a yard? If so, how big?

Yes it does. Look at picture 7, its quite a large yard it is 400 M2.

Legal fees etc are going to be about 500 euros, german notaries dont take bitcoin (or is there one.....now is your chance to shine)

In Germany, a notary's fees are fixed by law, and they're in Euros. A notary cannot just set his own fee or decide to be payed in something else.


Geckoman is right for the 2.5% Land transfer tax and his set notarisation fee on the legal title document. But for supplementary fees IE a power of attorney (if someone does not want to travel to Germany) and translation of documents there might be extra charges. But to make things easier I said, in my exact words, that Legal fees etc are going to be ABOUT 500 euros. Give or take.

You realise she could get screwed of she accepts an offer and the price of BTC drops.  At what point is the price locked in during the sales process in Germany?

Good point well taken. The house is ready to sell, and has no liens on the property so it is really in both parties best interests NOT to linger getting the house to the other person. The 'Act I registration' Which is basically saying the house is sold, and issuing a notarized certificate saying 'paid in full' which is legally irrevocable, to the buyer can be done in a matter of days after the auction closes. Buyer can verify with her lawyer in Germany, who is licensed by the legal board and has a registration number etc, that this property is in her name. and this is a genuine deal. So payment etc can be swift.


Starting price lets say 10 BTC in increment's of 1

Wait your starting this at 10BTC which is currently $1,213 ? is this right?

Yes, why not, we are taking a gamble. I hope it sells for closer to the market value of course.

Awesome house, bet after a bit of work it will be a nice place to live. What is the area like, bet it has awesome views.

It is pretty, rural, and peaceful. The neighbours are quiet, it is what you would expect from a nice house in the country. It would be an excellent place to live. Now, we must find some people who want to take renovation payment in Bitcoins......

Do you guarantee the sale to the highest bidder, or do you have a reserve price below which you wont sell?

Well, we think it would take the fun out of the auction if it has a reserve price, so, no, it sells to the highest bidder. Get those bids in people!!!

Do you have to be German to be able to buy this house?

thanks

No Chaang, you do not have to be German to buy a property in Germany. Our lawyer says he can do the transaction in Germany without even having you go there, but you must go to the German embassy or a Consul in your country to sign the documents there.


I don't know if this is a serious question or a troll, but I will answer anyway. The item you have liked to is a plot of land with a broken old barn on 377m2, and has been tax foreclosed by the town, and its STARTING price at town auction is 3200 euros (which is its outstanding tax bill). I think your implication that my girlfriends grandfathers house, after looking at the photos, could be classed as only fir for demolition' would probably offend her greatly, so please excuse me if I don't pass on your comment Smiley

Is this house under monument protection?

Or are you allowed to renovate it any way you want it?


Daybyter, there is not 'Denkmalschutz' if I spelt that right, which is Germany's version of a listed building. You can do what you want, within normal town planning rules, I don't think you can spray it Neon pink or anything like that.......

Is this house under monument protection?

Or are you allowed to renovate it any way you want it?


"only fit for demolition"

I highly doubt it is "protected"

Chaang, Its not only fit for demolition, that was a question from someone else not a statement from me! Please dont feed the trolls!


Thanks guys for your interest, Currently LEBING sits highest bidder with 35 BTC, come on I know you guys can do better than this.


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May 06, 2013, 01:29:37 PM
 #24

I apologize for commenting about the demolition.

However you failed to answer the most important question of any auction with BTC.

Will you use escrow? If so will you accept John the forum mod as escrow?

If you will not use escrow, why not?

Thank you.

If you wanted to, you could use the Notary as Escrow. That is what they are there for. Basically that is what they have been invented for, some time ago Cheesy
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May 06, 2013, 01:30:22 PM
 #25

Yes you dont need a escrow.

Both of you meet up at the notary. The notary creates all the papers and contracts and you sign it. After you've signed it - you send him the btc

Einer trage des andern Last, so werdet ihr das Gesetz Christi erfüllen.
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May 06, 2013, 01:31:21 PM
 #26

Want kind of municipal taxes does one have to pay on the house (not sure that is the correct name for the taxes). In other words, if I were to buy it what would I be expected to pay yearly to just keep the house legal?
El Cabron
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May 06, 2013, 01:32:09 PM
 #27

Yes you dont need a escrow.

Both of you meet up at the notary. The notary creates all the papers and contracts and you sign it. After you've signed it - you send him the btc

I'm not flying out to Germany without an escrow contract.

Sorry El Cabron, you are banned from posting or sending personal messages on this forum.
Trolling
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622250.msg7030081#msg7030081
candoo
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May 06, 2013, 01:33:11 PM
 #28

Yes you dont need a escrow.

Both of you meet up at the notary. The notary creates all the papers and contracts and you sign it. After you've signed it - you send him the btc

I'm not flying out to Germany without an escrow contract.

Yeah that make sense. Best way should be it the seller pays 50 btc to an escrow. So you can be safe that it will happen.


You go to the notary and sign the papers and send him the auction price + 50 btc

escrow releases the 50 btc to you

Einer trage des andern Last, so werdet ihr das Gesetz Christi erfüllen.
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May 06, 2013, 01:34:50 PM
 #29

.


I don't know if this is a serious question or a troll, but I will answer anyway. The item you have liked to is a plot of land with a broken old barn on 377m2, and has been tax foreclosed by the town, and its STARTING price at town auction is 3200 euros (which is its outstanding tax bill). I think your implication that my girlfriends grandfathers house, after looking at the photos, could be classed as only fir for demolition' would probably offend her greatly, so please excuse me if I don't pass on your comment Smiley

No, actually if you read it again it fits perfectly.

377 m² equals ~ 400 m²

The description mentions a 2 story house (which we see in the photos), a shed (which we see in the photos) and a storage facility (which we see in the photos).

The given building year 1900 fits the prevalent architecture of the time and place we see in the photos.

The house is described as not inhabited (which we see in the photos), free standing (which we see in the photos), having "simple" fittings (which is code for no heating (which we see in the photos)), 100 m² of living area (which fits the photos) and condemned (which fits the photos).

Now why it would only cost 3200 Euro while yours is claimed to be estimated at 25000 Euro is an interesting question. An interesting question indeed. I wonder why that is.
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May 06, 2013, 01:35:35 PM
 #30

I apologize for commenting about the demolition.

However you failed to answer the most important question of any auction with BTC.

Will you use escrow? If so will you accept John the forum mod as escrow?

If you will not use escrow, why not?

Thank you.

Hi,

Sorry to be honest I missed your question in the flood of replies.

Escrow is not needed in my opinion. Its not like a hockey card or a Bitcoin miner machine. You can call a certified lawyer and say 'is this house bitcoin bobs girlfriends house' and the lawyer will do what is called a 'title check' and will say 'yes this house is her house' and then, She goes to a notary and signs a document saying 'Paid in full' for the house and gives it to you. As we are dealing with a house it is not something that can be frauded so easily. Dont fear.

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May 06, 2013, 01:45:33 PM
 #31

.


I don't know if this is a serious question or a troll, but I will answer anyway. The item you have liked to is a plot of land with a broken old barn on 377m2, and has been tax foreclosed by the town, and its STARTING price at town auction is 3200 euros (which is its outstanding tax bill). I think your implication that my girlfriends grandfathers house, after looking at the photos, could be classed as only fir for demolition' would probably offend her greatly, so please excuse me if I don't pass on your comment Smiley

No, actually if you read it again it fits perfectly.

377 m² equals ~ 400 m²

The description mentions a 2 story house (which we see in the photos), a shed (which we see in the photos) and a storage facility (which we see in the photos).

The given building year 1900 fits the prevalent architecture of the time and place we see in the photos.

The house is described as not inhabited (which we see in the photos), free standing (which we see in the photos), having "simple" fittings (which is code for no heating (which we see in the photos)), 100 m² of living area (which fits the photos) and condemned (which fits the photos).

Now why it would only cost 3200 Euro while yours is claimed to be estimated at 25000 Euro is an interesting question. An interesting question indeed. I wonder why that is.

So you are a troll then, saying the house 'looks condemned' by the photos, it has 511m2 on the plot with 70m2 of living space which is nowhere near to 377m2. It was built in 1820 not 1900.

Plus you totally ignored my comment about the fact that the one property you pulled up is in a tax auction for non payment of taxes, with a starting bid of 3200 euros, not a 'buy it now'. So thats like saying 'I saw a bitcoin miner on ebay for $1 starting bid, why the hell do you want $2000 for yours??'

I don't know if I should continue to play into your game because you obviously have never bougt a house before. Maybe you are a child and have played monopoly before. Lets pout it in simple terms- Old kent road (in the UK verions anyway, I don't know what the international version names are!) with a hotel is worth more than old kent road without one. Lets call the property wrecked site 'old kent road'. Firstly, mine is round the corner from old kent road. Its not mayfair by a long shot, but its more like the blue ones (which I cant remember the name of). Mine also has 3 houses on it. If it were renovated, it would be like having a hotel on it.

Its the best I can do to answer you, I am trying to asusume ignorance in the market and help you understand it but I do really think you are trying to troll my post here though....

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May 06, 2013, 01:48:16 PM
 #32

No, actually if you read it again it fits perfectly.

no, such kind of old (former/abandoned) farm buildings is just typical for old German villages.

A caveat though is that this village is in the middle of nowhere in the former Eastern part of Germany, which still is structurally weak.

https://localbitcoins.com/?ch=80k | BTC: 1LJvmd1iLi199eY7EVKtNQRW3LqZi8ZmmB
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May 06, 2013, 01:52:04 PM
 #33

Guys, never ever send BTC with out escrow.

Please make sure if you do not use escrow you visit the house and get the papers before sending BTC.

This has SCAM all over it.

Be very very careful.



Hi Chaang Noi,

PM sent to you with my personal phone number and offer of my lawyers details to verify property is in GF's name. I expect an apology very soon please. Thanks.

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May 06, 2013, 01:52:52 PM
 #34

I apologize for commenting about the demolition.

However you failed to answer the most important question of any auction with BTC.

Will you use escrow? If so will you accept John the forum mod as escrow?

If you will not use escrow, why not?

Thank you.

Hi,

Sorry to be honest I missed your question in the flood of replies.

Escrow is not needed in my opinion. Its not like a hockey card or a Bitcoin miner machine. You can call a certified lawyer and say 'is this house bitcoin bobs girlfriends house' and the lawyer will do what is called a 'title check' and will say 'yes this house is her house' and then, She goes to a notary and signs a document saying 'Paid in full' for the house and gives it to you. As we are dealing with a house it is not something that can be frauded so easily. Dont fear.

This particular deal would likely require you to submit some BTC to escrow, enough to justify the buyer to fly in and look at the property and paperwork. Something like;

You send 20 BTC to John, the buyer sends whatever the auction ends up costing to John.

Buyer flies to DE, meets you, sees property, signs papers, John sends you auction + 20BTC. If buyer flies in and things are not as described or it turns out to be a scam somehow, the 20 BTC get sent to buyer.

Your opinion is that escrow is not needed, but would you be willing to accept it regardless?
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May 06, 2013, 01:56:26 PM
 #35

No, actually if you read it again it fits perfectly.

no, such kind of old (former/abandoned) farm buildings is just typical for old German villages.

A caveat though is that this village is in the middle of nowhere in the former Eastern part of Germany, which still is structurally weak.

Agreed Herzmeister.

Hence its only worth 25,000 euros in the open market as opposed to an extra 0 on the end if it were just outside of Munich or in the Berlin ring. Choose your words carefully though, I know what you mean by 'Structurally weak', as in, Infrastructure schools roads etc are being developed more slowly than the west of Germany, some readers might take 'Structurally weak' to mean the house is falling down!

Of course, the property prices are going up and up so who knows. its investment. Like gold, silver and bitcoin......bricks will always hold value, and who would have thought that BTC would be worth what it is today.

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May 06, 2013, 02:00:01 PM
 #36

No, actually if you read it again it fits perfectly.

no, such kind of old (former/abandoned) farm buildings is just typical for old German villages.

A caveat though is that this village is in the middle of nowhere in the former Eastern part of Germany, which still is structurally weak.

bricks will always hold value

Whatever man, explain that to spaniards - most of them "store" all their wealth in bricks for decades, because all of them believed that "bricks will always hold value", and now they lost 70% of their wealth from 2006 till today, and still going down, and it's almost impossible to sell any house ATM in Spain.

Bricks, like everything else, will lose value at some point.

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May 06, 2013, 02:07:58 PM
 #37

Soo, bitcoin_bob, do you still think it was a good idea to prefer bitcoin auction on this forum over an ebay auction?

Hast nicht mit der ganzen Paranoia gerechnet? Was erzählst du deiner Freundin, wenn aufgrund dessen das ganze Teil nur für 40 btc weggeht? Du musst es den Leuten ganz langsam und klar erklären. Mit Adresse, google maps Koordinaten, womöglich mit Besitzurkunde, in der halt Namen etc ausgeblurt wurden. Die Jungs wurden einfach so oft abgezockt, dass sie keinem mehr über den Weg trauen und sie verlangen einen unvernünftiges Maß an Beweisen, aber man muss das verstehen. Sieh's gechillt.

Still it is an awesome idea to sell a whole house for btc and it's also a huge contribution to the community (in the sense that we now can say: 'you can even buy whole houses with btc') - what I think is the reason you do this.

still, give em more info, don't consider everybody doubting your offer as a troll. And try not to be pissed if they're super mistrustful. That's the sad spirit of this community, and its mostly people complaining that have no interest in the offering anyway.
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May 06, 2013, 02:15:28 PM
 #38

I apologize for commenting about the demolition.

However you failed to answer the most important question of any auction with BTC.

Will you use escrow? If so will you accept John the forum mod as escrow?

If you will not use escrow, why not?

Thank you.

Hi,

Sorry to be honest I missed your question in the flood of replies.

Escrow is not needed in my opinion. Its not like a hockey card or a Bitcoin miner machine. You can call a certified lawyer and say 'is this house bitcoin bobs girlfriends house' and the lawyer will do what is called a 'title check' and will say 'yes this house is her house' and then, She goes to a notary and signs a document saying 'Paid in full' for the house and gives it to you. As we are dealing with a house it is not something that can be frauded so easily. Dont fear.

This particular deal would likely require you to submit some BTC to escrow, enough to justify the buyer to fly in and look at the property and paperwork. Something like;

You send 20 BTC to John, the buyer sends whatever the auction ends up costing to John.

Buyer flies to DE, meets you, sees property, signs papers, John sends you auction + 20BTC. If buyer flies in and things are not as described or it turns out to be a scam somehow, the 20 BTC get sent to buyer.

Your opinion is that escrow is not needed, but would you be willing to accept it regardless?

A few problems with your idea;

1) we are in Canada, not Germany. So there will be no meeting of us in Germany.
2) there is no legal mechanism of protection for me under German law that i can see, with someone who is not a lawyer/notary holding bitcoins. I need to hand someone a certificate saying 'paid in full' for the property before the signing you are talking off, so that they can show the notary the property is paid.
3) if BTC crashed in the meantime, It could mean a big loss for us. So I would rather conclude this swiftly.
4) with a lawyer guaranteeing the sale, I still don't get what the escrow achieves except opening currency fluctuation risk.....


 h4r13q1n,  mein schatzi sagt, sie versteht Sie Ihre Worte und erzählt mir, halt die Schnauze und ignorieren Arschlöcher! My german is not the best Tongue

Chaang Noi......Maybe you don't know what a lawyer is or maybe in Thailand they are all corrupt. I think maybe the deal just is too complex for you. Peace.

Taxes per year are 120 euros. Water and sewer: 55 euros.

Im going to have to drag myself away from the PC for some work now guys, I will answer all other questions later. Please dont hijack the post with tons of the same question differently worded......I would be grateful.

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May 06, 2013, 02:38:20 PM
 #39

@Chaang If you have a German lawyer and let him send the amount of the auction to the notary it shouldn't be a problem to do this deal without an escrow.
The only question is: what do you want with a house in the middle of nowhere, it could be a great opportunity, but never forget Germany is a country with many rules, you should check what obligations you have to fulfil: taxes, security, environmental hazards... Grin

Anyway I still like the idea, just make your homework, if youre bidding on this  Wink

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May 06, 2013, 02:39:57 PM
 #40

Hast nicht mit der ganzen Paranoia gerechnet? Was erzählst du deiner Freundin, wenn aufgrund dessen das ganze Teil nur für 40 btc weggeht? Du musst es den Leuten ganz langsam und klar erklären. Mit Adresse, google maps Koordinaten, womöglich mit Besitzurkunde, in der halt Namen etc ausgeblurt wurden. Die Jungs wurden einfach so oft abgezockt, dass sie keinem mehr über den Weg trauen und sie verlangen einen unvernünftiges Maß an Beweisen, aber man muss das verstehen. Sieh's gechillt.

Translation:

Didn't expect the whole paranoia? What will you tell your girlfriend if this goes out for just 40 btc because of that? You have to explain it to the guys slow and clearly, with an address, google maps coordinates and probably with a deed of ownership with names etc blurred out. The guys have been ripped off so often that they simply don't trust anybody an inch, so they demand an unreasonable amount of prove, but you have to be kinda understanding. Just chill.
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