Why I'm switching to mXBT — and why you should too

[Technomage]

The issue right now, as I see it, is wallet support. Which wallets support a mBTC balance? Bitcoin-Qt does, but which others? Personally I think that implementing the option to show a mBTC balance is a top priority.

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[Koekiemonster]

Millies have been agreed upon for millibitcoins and Mickeys for microbitcoins.

Mickeys sound like we are promoting Mickey Mouse.

In a few decades they'll say: "Mickey Mouse, that sure sounds like they are promoting Bitcoin!"

[Jocky]

I do not fully agree, we should be careful with making changes to Bitcoin. Entrepreneurs are still hesitant about accepting Bitcoin, but they are doing it. Why change a good thing? Maybe if we keep the exchange rate around 100 USD for a couple of months, we can try something. I can imagine the headlines, it will look like a trick Bitcoiners are playing to give new victims of our 'scheme' the ability to buy more.

[Matthew N. Wright]

I do not fully agree, we should be careful with making changes to Bitcoin. Entrepreneurs are still hesitant about accepting Bitcoin, but they are doing it. Why change a good thing? Maybe if we keep the exchange rate around 100 USD for a couple of months, we can try something. I can imagine the headlines, it will look like a trick Bitcoiners are playing to give new victims of our 'scheme' the ability to buy more.

The more I read about this topic, the more I get the feeling this initiative is less about making things simpler (it actually makes it much more complicated), and more about trying to influence the market rates in the favor of those holding bitcoins. This might be just an attempted Bear Toss in disguise.  

[michaelmclees]

100 years ago a quarter would get you a gallon of milk.

100 years ago things were sold in pennies.

I won't value pennies until I can easily have 1 whole dollar.  That's what this debate boils down to.  Let's just get it over with and convert to the Satoshi.  How much is the combo #4?  8.85 million Satoshis.

[spartacus_]

Bitcoin is known by many but owned by few.

Most of my friends know about Bitcoin. There are few exceptions. News coverage recently has been phenomenal.

But I can't say the same about their opinion of Bitcoin. One pointed out, "who would spend hundreds of dollars on that thing?". Another replied, "yeah, the price is way too high".

For perfectly rational human beings, the price is not an important factor. After all, a single bitcoin can be divided into 100000000 units—this is so large a number that the satoshi, worth 0.00000001 BTC, is worth a third that of the lowest physical denomination of currency: the Uzbekistani tiyin.

But rational and human together form an oxymoron. Whereas my friends were easily corrected on the ability to purchase fewer than one bitcoin, the psychological barrier cannot be ignored. People do not consider using something unless they have at least one of them. Nobody buys half a car, or 0.25 houses. We can't eat 0.03 apples, and we would reject a gift of 0.007 trees.

These comparisons obviously do not apply to bitcoins, as they are effectively divisible anywhere. But because Bitcoin is abstract, we tend to compare a bitcoin to something physical. As a result, we balk at not being able to own a single bitcoin.

This also hurts the economy. Most are so accustomed to spending dollars, quarters, etc. that the thought of spending 0.007 BTC is awkward. Even worse, some merchants reject Bitcoin because they feel that 0.05 BTC is unfair compensation for the products they offer.

What if we used mBTC by default? Then merchants would get payed 50 mBTC. The "dollar" store would offer products for 1 mBTC. Et cetera.

For those living in countries with a currency valued at or higher than the US dollar, also recall that most countries have lower-valued currencies. The mBTC, among currencies, would be right in the middle of the pack.

For all these reasons, I will begin to use mBTC. It just makes sense. And I hope we could demonstrate the power of the decentralized system of governance, and band together to do so. I aspire to transact with others only in mBTC by the end of May. And I hope you will too.

I agree with you. Let us use mBTC.

[TTBit]

Count me out. We're all used to the super inflated fiat regime. I'm holding out for them to adapt to us. 0.03 BTC for a gallon of gasoline seems high.

[w1R903]

I agree.  Let's start using millies.  I'm going to look into how to mod Armory so we will have a choice of how to display Bitcoins.

[yona]

either people will mass adapt to working in fractions or they will name it different.

if we are coming from an efficient way of thinking that does not relate to human psychology and ability to use fractions.
i think working in fractions would have made sense if the middle unit had a name and you would use it as a measure.
meaning 0.0001 bitcoins should have been called satoshi  [and now can be called a 'bit' for example] and one would need less digits to describe sums.

right now the market is 10000bits are worth ~110$ and 1000bits are a dollar and change, but in the future if bitcoin is mass adopted and every bit is worth 100$ then we would have prices in 0.01bits and 100bits not having to use as many digits as 0.000001BTC or 10000 satoshi

[sLide.]

So after reading all these comments, I'm missing the point on why you would want to change it.  Can someone exxxxxpplllllaiiinnn. (Doc Who)

[Birdy]

So after reading all these comments, I'm missing the point on why you would want to change it.  Can someone exxxxxpplllllaiiinnn. (Doc Who)

Basically, because it would fasten the progress of Bitcoin's success due to psychological effects.

[Matthew N. Wright]

So after reading all these comments, I'm missing the point on why you would want to change it.  Can someone exxxxxpplllllaiiinnn. (Doc Who)

Basically, because it would fasten the progress of Bitcoin's success due to psychological effects.

What "success"? A rise in price? Increased adoption (something emails and IP addresses didn't need any help with)?

[chalbersma]

100 years ago a quarter would get you a gallon of milk.

100 years ago things were sold in pennies.

150 years ago things were sold in half cents.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half_cent_(United_States_coin)

[Birdy]

So after reading all these comments, I'm missing the point on why you would want to change it.  Can someone exxxxxpplllllaiiinnn. (Doc Who)

Basically, because it would fasten the progress of Bitcoin's success due to psychological effects.

What "success"? A rise in price? Increased adoption (something emails and IP addresses didn't need any help with)?

Increased adoption.

[hello_good_sir]

For those who doubt the importance of this change, just look at XRP (Ripple).

If I'm interpreting https://ripplecharts.com/markets correctly, the current price is 152,884.58 XRP for $1

Right there that sounds cheap right?  Sure I'll buy a million XRP for six and a half dollars.  Except that that means that the market cap is 654088.20, which is about two-thirds the market cap of bitcoin.  Should ripple's market cap be anywhere near the market cap of bitcoin?  No way.  Bitcoin has four years and hundreds of thousands of people behind it.  Ripple is new and untested.

So why is Ripple beating bitcoin? Because it looks affordable.  In order for bitcoin to keep growing we need to be able to recruit regular people.  Regular people can't handle numbers.

Sticking with a bitcoin as the unit is out of the question.  The debate is entirely over what unit to go to.  There are three strong contenders:

Bitcent (strong contender due to name, gives us dollar parity which is good)

Bitmill (horrible name, but good through the next boomtime.  Gavin's change made this less desirable though, making the minimum transaction size 6 bitmillcents)

Satoshi (we're going there eventually, do it now?  Plus then exchanges can express prices in a more appealing way: X satoshis per dollar)

[muyuu]

Exchanges should dynamically show the unit that makes the most sense on a monthly moving average. Right now it would be the Bitcent.

Bitcoinity, Bitcoincharts and Clark Moody could single-handedly do this.

[BIG NUMBER] / BTC
[BIG NUMBER] / Bitcent
[BIG NUMBER] / mBTC

Whatever fits best.

[WilderedB]

OK, speaking as a sales copywriter, my job is exactly this kind of thing.

Trust me, such subtle changes can makes a HUGE difference.

Talking of copywriting I need to get on with some work but I'll throw a few points out to muse on:

1. Yes, to the guy who mentioned becoming a bitcoin 'millionaire'. Ideally that should be something to aspire to, not something you could buy with pocket change or about the price of 1 BTC now. Something around $1,000 to $5,000 to become a bitcoin millionaire would be cool, and still leave others happy to own "hundreds of XXX"

2. I recently just purchased 1.0 BTC, for the exact same reason that it felt silly and cheap to own anything less. It IS a big mental barrier. Right now we're asking people to join in with an idea, where the entry cost is around $100 or more, plus transfer fees etc. It's ridiculous that someone should consider this currency to be "expensive' but that's the way the human mind works.

3. Don't ask me or any other copywriter which is best, a fraction of a big thing or lots of little things, because the studies on this are all over the place and inconclusive. For example some studies suggest people think "12 months" is longer than "1 year", whereas other studies show the opposite. For my own writing I tend to use the smaller unit if I want something to seem longer ("and get a full 12 months coverage!") or a large unit if I want it to seem smaller ("..and you'll have paid it all off in less than one year!"). I repeat though, the studies are inconclusive.

4. No, don't go to the Satoshi just yet. That's even harder to get your head around than the idea of a single unit costing so much. Once you talk of how a single unit is some tiny fraction of a single $ cent you make bitcoin seem worthless. Again, this is how the human mind works, whether we like or approve of it or not, that's how we DO think, plus no outlet anywhere will be able to mention it without the usual drama of "the unknown hacker..." crap.

5. THE biggest challenge for bitcoin, greater than any technical issue or personal issues with some guy called Gavin () which mean NOTHING to me or other noobs, is indeed the whole social acceptance thing. Please DO NOT under-estimate these perception issues. I get paid thousands of bux to make subtle changes that can mean many more thousands of sales in the longer term for clients.

The subtle difference between a currency that seems normal and which one can simply buy $100 worth, or something where it costs $100 just for a single coin, is not really subtle at all. It's actually a BIG barrier to entry.



AC

[ThatDGuy]

Definitely a change for the better if this were to take place.  I do think it's a recent problem mostly since April, but would be a big step moving forward especially before the next hype wave.

[Anon136]

i agree totally with the premise but you may as well just go ahead and go to satoshis. $1 is about a million satoshies. So if you want to receive 100,000 dollars you could say "one hundred thousand million satoshies please" =)

[yona]

so,
10 mBTX is actually 1 Msatoshi [million Satoshi]?

actually i don't like the idea of cents or millicoins, and i don't think it's easy to work in numbers like millions

i ask again, why not find a name for the middle unit 0.0001 BTX? and then we keep the discussion for most people in the realm of 5 digits.

i say call 0.0001BTX Bits
A bit (a contraction of binary digit) is the basic unit of information in computing and telecommunications. A bit can have only two values: either 1 or 0. A bit can be implemented in hardware by means of a two state device. Eight bits form a byte.

but i guess any name would work...