DEFCAD taken offline at request of US Department of Defense Trade Controls

[Schrankwand]

Still, I don't know why you should actually own these things, but that is kind of an american thing.

"The right to buy weapons is the right to be free" - A. E. van Vogt

One would imagine the right to make weapons would be even more the right to be free.

I doubt there is that much truth to it. Freedom needs weapons? What for? For the right to shoot someone?

The one thing I have never understood is, considering the immense might of the united states military. How does anyone in his right mind think that beating this complex with a revolution is a good idea?

The use of weapons always brings nothing else but death. 


Don't get me wrong, im not an anti gun nut, but neither am I a believer that everyone should be armed. I don't see any use for it.

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[SgtSpike]

Still, I don't know why you should actually own these things, but that is kind of an american thing.

"The right to buy weapons is the right to be free" - A. E. van Vogt

One would imagine the right to make weapons would be even more the right to be free.

I doubt there is that much truth to it. Freedom needs weapons? What for? For the right to shoot someone?

The one thing I have never understood is, considering the immense might of the united states military. How does anyone in his right mind think that beating this complex with a revolution is a good idea?

The use of weapons always brings nothing else but death. 


Don't get me wrong, im not an anti gun nut, but neither am I a believer that everyone should be armed. I don't see any use for it.

For me, it's for fun (target shooting) and for if someone breaks into my house.  They'd get a face full of rounds from me.

[myrkul]

I doubt there is that much truth to it. Freedom needs weapons? What for? For the right to shoot someone?

The one thing I have never understood is, considering the immense might of the united states military. How does anyone in his right mind think that beating this complex with a revolution is a good idea?

See, that's exactly my point. The massive power disparity is exactly the problem.

Think about it. Why could knights and kings lord it over the peasants? Why did the Japanese forbid any but the Samurai to carry swords? Even Hitler knew the value of keeping the populace disarmed:

"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to permit the conquered Eastern peoples to have arms. History teaches that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing so."
         --- Adolf Hitler

The simple fact is that if you do not have a weapon to defend yourself, you are a slave to anyone who does have a weapon. The right to buy a weapon is the right to be free. Period.

[Lethn]

I'm a strictly self-defence, defence of others person kind of guy, I do however believe if that you're going to have gun control the people policing should have to obey the same rules as well and come up with other forms of defence against guns which I'd actually be happy to help with if that were the case. Anything else is just a power grab and shows that governments only want to have complete control over us.

[uMMcQxCWELNzkt]

Thanks USA, thanks for finding new ways of killing people.

[Schrankwand]

See, that's exactly my point. The massive power disparity is exactly the problem.

Think about it. Why could knights and kings lord it over the peasants? Why did the Japanese forbid any but the Samurai to carry swords? Even Hitler knew the value of keeping the populace disarmed:

See, here is my problem with this: Human psychology is tending to simply comply. There is no need for weapons, you just tell people what to do and a majority will follow.

For me, it's for fun (target shooting) and for if someone breaks into my house.  They'd get a face full of rounds from me.

I get that. That is what I believe is an okay solution. Even if I consider the statistics of how many people are actually shot by burglars with their own guns


What I don't get is this idea of resistance against the government. I get it if you are totally libertarian, but at the same time the people that talk about lax gunrights seem to support anti terrorism laws and a strong military. It is like "we are a state, we have the right to bear an army and kill everyone to remain free."

I don't get that logic, to be honest. I have traveled the world like crazy, and the countries that are the "least" free when it comes to these matters felt the most free to me. Free from fear.

[myrkul]

Think about it. Why could knights and kings lord it over the peasants? Why did the Japanese forbid any but the Samurai to carry swords? Even Hitler knew the value of keeping the populace disarmed:

See, here is my problem with this: Human psychology is tending to simply comply. There is no need for weapons, you just tell people what to do and a majority will follow.

Ahh, indeed, that is why socialized education is so important to a modern State:

"Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted." - Vladimir Lenin

A well-brainwashed populace doesn't need to be forced with arms, they'll follow along willingly.

A free population, once conquered, however, must remain under the gun until a few generations have passed and the people are well trained.

[SgtSpike]

What I don't get is this idea of resistance against the government. I get it if you are totally libertarian, but at the same time the people that talk about lax gunrights seem to support anti terrorism laws and a strong military. It is like "we are a state, we have the right to bear an army and kill everyone to remain free."

Because things like the Holocaust actually happened.  That's why.  It's not resistance against the government today, it's resistance against the government in the future in case we need it.

[Rassah]

Even if this plastic gun is a piece of sh**, considering you can print dozens of them and just throw them around the house...

[Elwar]

People are too focussed on this being revolutionary in the US.

But think about someone in Rwanda getting hold of a cheap 3D printer, perhaps a whole village pooling their money to get one and spitting out a gun for every man woman and child in a village. The next time a warlord rolls in with his truck full of armed men to rape and pillage, they may be met by a village of armed citizens.

There is plenty of tyranny out there suprisingly worse than the US. This will have an impact there before anything happens in the US.

[myrkul]

But think about someone in Rwanda getting hold of a cheap 3D printer, perhaps a whole village pooling their money to get one and spitting out a gun for every man woman and child in a village. The next time a warlord rolls in with his truck full of armed men to rape and pillage, they may be met by a village of armed citizens.

This. This right here. This is exactly what I was saying. The right to own weapons is the right to be free.

[SgtSpike]

But think about someone in Rwanda getting hold of a cheap 3D printer, perhaps a whole village pooling their money to get one and spitting out a gun for every man woman and child in a village. The next time a warlord rolls in with his truck full of armed men to rape and pillage, they may be met by a village of armed citizens.

This. This right here. This is exactly what I was saying. The right to own weapons is the right to be free.

As has been said many times before, it puts a little old lady on (mostly) equal footing with a burly 250lb man.

[herzmeister]

What I don't get is this idea of resistance against the government. I get it if you are totally libertarian, but at the same time the people that talk about lax gunrights seem to support anti terrorism laws and a strong military. It is like "we are a state, we have the right to bear an army and kill everyone to remain free."

that's the US conservatives/republicans. Libertarians usually do not support strong military (or any state military for that matter). It's a philosophy of strong individualism.

[uMMcQxCWELNzkt]

People are too focussed on this being revolutionary in the US.

But think about someone in Rwanda getting hold of a cheap 3D printer, perhaps a whole village pooling their money to get one and spitting out a gun for every man woman and child in a village. The next time a warlord rolls in with his truck full of armed men to rape and pillage, they may be met by a village of armed citizens.

There is plenty of tyranny out there suprisingly worse than the US. This will have an impact there before anything happens in the US.

Sorry but this is so ridiculous I had to comment, so basically your solution to rape and pillaging is more guns. Ok so lets pretend these crimes do not happen in legal gun ownership countries for a second. So the Rwandas who do not even have access to computers are expected to print out a gun and fighter back those who are armed with real long lasting guns? If America wants guns that is cool, go for it, we get daily broadcasts showing us the benefits of that "freedom", but please do not project those thoughts onto Africa. Africa is a victim of guns so please do not suggest that poor people are "aided" with more guns. I am not saying this for arguments sake, I feel very strongly about this, I do not own a gun yet I feel safe. The US is built on war and an fed up of war, humanity can survive without a gun in its hand!

[myrkul]

People are too focussed on this being revolutionary in the US.

But think about someone in Rwanda getting hold of a cheap 3D printer, perhaps a whole village pooling their money to get one and spitting out a gun for every man woman and child in a village. The next time a warlord rolls in with his truck full of armed men to rape and pillage, they may be met by a village of armed citizens.

There is plenty of tyranny out there suprisingly worse than the US. This will have an impact there before anything happens in the US.

Sorry but this is so ridiculous I had to comment, so basically your solution to rape and pillaging is more guns. Ok so lets pretend these crimes do not happen in legal gun ownership countries for a second. So the Rwandas who do not even have access to computers are expected to print out a gun and fighter back those who are armed with real long lasting guns? If America wants guns that is cool, go for it, we get daily broadcasts showing us the benefits of that "freedom", but please do not project those thoughts onto Africa. Africa is a victim of guns so please do not suggest that poor people are "aided" with more guns. I am not saying this for arguments sake, I feel very strongly about this, I do not own a gun yet I feel safe. The US is built on war and an fed up of war, humanity can survive without a gun in its hand!

Sure. If nobody had any guns. But people do have guns. Bad people. People who don't listen to laws saying "you can't have guns." So the only way to put the good guys on the same footing as the bad guys is to arm them.

In short, "More guns, Less crime."

[uMMcQxCWELNzkt]

People are too focussed on this being revolutionary in the US.

But think about someone in Rwanda getting hold of a cheap 3D printer, perhaps a whole village pooling their money to get one and spitting out a gun for every man woman and child in a village. The next time a warlord rolls in with his truck full of armed men to rape and pillage, they may be met by a village of armed citizens.

There is plenty of tyranny out there suprisingly worse than the US. This will have an impact there before anything happens in the US.

Sorry but this is so ridiculous I had to comment, so basically your solution to rape and pillaging is more guns. Ok so lets pretend these crimes do not happen in legal gun ownership countries for a second. So the Rwandas who do not even have access to computers are expected to print out a gun and fighter back those who are armed with real long lasting guns? If America wants guns that is cool, go for it, we get daily broadcasts showing us the benefits of that "freedom", but please do not project those thoughts onto Africa. Africa is a victim of guns so please do not suggest that poor people are "aided" with more guns. I am not saying this for arguments sake, I feel very strongly about this, I do not own a gun yet I feel safe. The US is built on war and an fed up of war, humanity can survive without a gun in its hand!

Sure. If nobody had any guns. But people do have guns. Bad people. People who don't listen to laws saying "you can't have guns." So the only way to put the good guys on the same footing as the bad guys is to arm them.

In short, "More guns, Less crime."

The UK do not allow guns, every week we read about another killing spree in the US. Believe me I am as anti government as you get and I do not worry near as much for myself as I do for those associated with US gun culture. Yes the bad guys (government) in US have guns, I understand why US citizens wish to protect themselves from those guns, that seems sensible. However, in reality what are US citizens going to do against warships, jet fighers, drones and so on?

Nothing. If you are revering to general criminals then again your prison system is a shining example of how not to rehabilitate.

The more you support guns and gun culture, the more money you give to your dictators to carpet bomb people in third world countries, not to mention the continued stock of an arsenal that could dispose of 90% of the US population within a fortnight. Criminals exist in the UK, fortunately a very large propotion do not have access to guns, our government could not over rule us either, unless of course they get the US military justice system to help them.

I don't mind hunting animals, but I disagree with shooting, bombing, gassing and any other methods developed for killing a human beings but that is just me. I guess I just dont know what it feels like to be "free" as you guys put it. 

[myrkul]

The more you support guns and gun culture, the more money you give to your dictators to carpet bomb people in third world countries, not to mention the continued stock of an arsenal that could dispose of 90% of the US population within a fortnight.

um... wut?

Remember, this got started with this:

But think about someone in Rwanda getting hold of a cheap 3D printer, perhaps a whole village pooling their money to get one and spitting out a gun for every man woman and child in a village. The next time a warlord rolls in with his truck full of armed men to rape and pillage, they may be met by a village of armed citizens.

Supporting the notion of armed citizens resisting tyranny in no way supports the tyrants themselves.

[Elwar]

If America wants guns that is cool, go for it, we get daily broadcasts showing us the benefits of that "freedom", but please do not project those thoughts onto Africa.

Do those broadcasts mention that most of those massacres take place in places where having a gun is illegal?

[uMMcQxCWELNzkt]

The more you support guns and gun culture, the more money you give to your dictators to carpet bomb people in third world countries, not to mention the continued stock of an arsenal that could dispose of 90% of the US population within a fortnight.

um... wut?

Remember, this got started with this:

But think about someone in Rwanda getting hold of a cheap 3D printer, perhaps a whole village pooling their money to get one and spitting out a gun for every man woman and child in a village. The next time a warlord rolls in with his truck full of armed men to rape and pillage, they may be met by a village of armed citizens.

Supporting the notion of armed citizens resisting tyranny in no way supports the tyrants themselves.

Yes It does, the "um... wut?" seems to suggest you don't yet understand. Think of it this way, the West supports those in question with millions in aid/charity. So where does the financial support end up, not in the hands of the general population! Instead that "support" either ends up in the hands of corrupt government, or in the hands of those willing to exploit the hard working people through the use of guns and weapons to impose their agenda on others. If you support 3D printing guns in Africa then I hope you have considered all the kidnapped children brainwashed ready to invade the nearest village. If anything plastic guns are more suited to the rich in Africa then the general population, only the corrupt will own them just as they own the US Apaches, Tanks and so on.

I guess we can agree to disagree, I come from the perspective that one can argue that a gallows could be used ethically to chop fruit, but in real terms that gallows will be used for taking off heads.

To be honest, I think we should not be using the word "perhaps" when people lives are at steak. I find it hard to believe that any African will feel the same way most Americans do about guns being a solution to any kind of problem.

If America wants guns that is cool, go for it, we get daily broadcasts showing us the benefits of that "freedom", but please do not project those thoughts onto Africa.

Do those broadcasts mention that most of those massacres take place in places where having a gun is illegal?

The US war on drugs = Death, Murder, Bloated prison system, Crime etc. etc....
The US Gun Cultue = Death, Murder, Bloated prison system, Crime etc. etc....
The US Police = Death, Murder, Bloated prison system, Crime etc. etc....

I am not trying to attack the US, I just come from a land which has been responsible for many wrong doings in its history (The Britsh had advanced weapons). This is not about my country vs yours, this is about human beings. I do not want my kids growing up around guns, nor do I want anyone else's kids to grow up around guns. The UK does not have police driving through streets in armored vehicles, believe me when I say we are more safe and less worried about the fire power of our government then US citizens should be.

[myrkul]

I guess we can agree to disagree, I come from the perspective that one can argue that a gallows could be used ethically to chop fruit, but in real terms that gallows will be used for taking off heads.

To be honest, I think we should not be using the word "perhaps" when people lives are at steak. I find it hard to believe that any African will feel the same way most Americans do about guns being a solution to any kind of problem.

Actually, it appears that you come from a perspective of a very poorly educated person who probably believes anything that was told him in school.

A few quick facts:
Printing a plastic gun does not pay for an Apache helicopter, and to think it does is moronic.
A gallows is a frame for attaching a hangman's noose. I believe the word you're looking for is "guillotine."
The phrase is "lives are at stake."
I'm quite certain that any african would gladly take an AK to defend his village from the local warlord rather than watch his mother and sisters raped and then himself be forced into the army of that warlord.