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Author Topic: Kevin Day, New Bitcoin Multimillionaire worth 5 Million dollars  (Read 15436 times)
Bit_Happy
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June 20, 2011, 07:16:05 PM
 #21

I was a strong rollback supporter, but with a question.
Why does MtGox really want to rollback? What does MtGox actually gain from helping the one big fat cat?
Less chance of one serious lawsuit?
Can some help answer/speculate?

MtGox has to return the stolen money (since now we know it was sorta their fault... at least, the auditor guy fault).

They can:

a) rollback everything and cover the few withdrawn BTCs by random people.
b) Pull 550k BTC from nowhere to return to the guy.



What of these 2 you think is easier to do?

We are getting much closer:
MtGox has to return the stolen money...

Strong passwords are difficult or near impossible to crack(?), so the fat cat is a "dummy" (his money is gone & MtGox not clearly at fault (?)) and all the lucky little people should win.*

*I support the rollback, and always did, so never mind, but thanks for the answer.


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Synaptic
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June 20, 2011, 07:16:34 PM
 #22

it's a misdemeanor class A to even log into somebodies account that does not belong to you.  Once you pass the $1500 mark of financial damage, you get into felony territory.

source : personal experience.

Read my thread about bringing bitcoins to court.

They have no intrinsic value, and aren't backed by any authority.

They are fucking worthless in the eyes of the Law.

Period.

If I take a giant shit in a coffee can and 500 people are all clamoring to give me $10,000 for it and I split it up amongst them, and then someone gets some of my warm excrement stolen from them, is a court going to award them compensation?

Why not?  Because my hot, steaming excrement isn't currency?  Well I've got 500 people sniffing my shit lined up to tell you otherwise, and they want their goddamn trades reversed or else there's class action on the way!

LOL...

You people are great.  I love you.
Phil21
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June 20, 2011, 07:16:45 PM
 #23

How is me placing a buy order for a penny a few weeks (months?) ago logging into someone elses account and committing a felony?

Get a grip.

The problem here is *NOT* the "stolen" (no proof of this!) funds at all, those will be returned as it's simply the right thing to do.  However, why the lack of transparency (to ANY parties involved)?

What about all the people who panic'ed, and sold for a penny legitimately?  Should they be bailed out too?

My concern is with the above question, and I understand there is definitely room for reasonable minds to disagree on that point.
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June 20, 2011, 07:19:02 PM
 #24

it's a misdemeanor class A to even log into somebodies account that does not belong to you.  Once you pass the $1500 mark of financial damage, you get into felony territory.

source : personal experience.

Read my thread about bringing bitcoins to court.

They have no intrinsic value, and aren't backed by any authority.

They are fucking worthless in the eyes of the Law.

Period.

If I take a giant shit in a coffee can and 500 people are all clamoring to give me $10,000 for it and I split it up amongst them, and then someone gets some of my warm excrement stolen from them, is a court going to award them compensation?

Why not?  Because my hot, steaming excrement isn't currency?  Well I've got 500 people sniffing my shit lined up to tell you otherwise, and they want their goddamn trades reversed or else there's class action on the way!

LOL...

You people are great.  I love you.

You are probably correct. The theft is only valued relatively, not exactly. Substantiating the true value would be next to impossible. Only thing that can happen, would be bitcoins returned to their rightful owner, and with the anonymity factor, it's pretty much impossible.

Why does Bitrebel have 65+ Ignores?
Because Bitrebel says things that some people do not want YOU to hear.
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June 20, 2011, 07:20:46 PM
 #25

Has the actual existence of said "fat cat" actually have been confirmed?

If not.. why do you assume this to be a truth?

Oh, please do(!) go there, as I asked in another thread:
MtGox has the $1,000/day limit to withdraw, so...
Why would any real person keep over 250,000 coins in an account unless they were setting up to intentionally crash the market?
^^^
I need to find the other thread and see if anyone finally gave a decent answer to this question.
Any takers want to try, please?   Cheesy

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June 20, 2011, 07:21:01 PM
 #26

Did you all miss one valid point? Kevin Day or whoever this person is may have been involved in the hack and this is his way of getting the funds out.

I dont trust this shit for a second. Yes, play the victom. Thats the easiest way to hide under the radar you scum.

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PHPAdam
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June 20, 2011, 07:21:32 PM
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Id be very upset if I was Kevin Day, from the story it seems he made a bid and it was accepted due to no fault of his own.
Phil21
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June 20, 2011, 07:22:20 PM
 #28

Did you all miss one valid point? Kevin Day or whoever this person is may have been involved in the hack and this is his way of getting the funds out.

I dont trust this shit for a second.

You really don't know who kevin day is?  And you're speculating he's behind this?  I generally don't flame people on boards, but do some research and ask some folks who are "in the know" before you post idiotic statements.
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June 20, 2011, 07:24:13 PM
 #29

I was a strong rollback supporter, but with a question.
Why does MtGox really want to rollback? What does MtGox actually gain from helping the one big fat cat?
Less chance of one serious lawsuit?
Can some help answer/speculate?

Which one big fat cat are you referring to?  Rule of Law?  Or the entire bitcoin community?

Or do you really think that the only person (or people) hurt by this was the one guy (or several guys) that had their accounts liquidated?

People on both sides are hurting kjj, and the entire thing smells fishy to me. If possible please answer my question above in bold red, thanks.

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June 20, 2011, 07:24:38 PM
 #30

it's a misdemeanor class A to even log into somebodies account that does not belong to you.  Once you pass the $1500 mark of financial damage, you get into felony territory.

source : personal experience.

Read my thread about bringing bitcoins to court.

They have no intrinsic value, and aren't backed by any authority.

They are fucking worthless in the eyes of the Law.

Period.

If I take a giant shit in a coffee can and 500 people are all clamoring to give me $10,000 for it and I split it up amongst them, and then someone gets some of my warm excrement stolen from them, is a court going to award them compensation?

Why not?  Because my hot, steaming excrement isn't currency?  Well I've got 500 people sniffing my shit lined up to tell you otherwise, and they want their goddamn trades reversed or else there's class action on the way!

LOL...

You people are great.  I love you.

There are previous court cases all over the world of people winning lawsuits against thieves that stole virtual currency from several systems and items.

It does not matter if bitcoin is not legal tender. It is NOT worthless in the eyes of the law, any decent lawyer can prove that bitcoins are worth whatever people are paying for them, and thus if the lawyer show to the judge that BTC was worth 17.5 when the theft happened, the judge WILL understand that BTC was worth 17.5 and thus the value stolen was 17.5 * 550k, and that one person, Kevin, received 261k * 17.5 USD worth in goods, and knowing that it was given to him accidentally during a heist, he decided to keep it.

Thus, if someone (or even the government itself) sue Kevin for keeping the BTC, he will be charged for receiving 4 567 500 worth of stolen virtual goods. Like if he kept stolen WoW gold, or linden dollars, or a sword of 1000 truths, or facebook credits, or Ragnarok Online account, or whatever else that exists over internet and people actively trade.

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June 20, 2011, 07:25:16 PM
 #31

Any one person holding that much makes me nervous.  ... I am talking about the 500K.

Finally, an honest thief.  I just hate it when the hackers get loads of bitcoins.
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June 20, 2011, 07:25:44 PM
 #32

Asked:

Why would any real person keep over 250,000 coins in an account unless they were setting up to intentionally crash the market?

And answered:

MtGox has the $1,000/day limit to withdraw, so...

Hint: it would take many years.

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June 20, 2011, 07:27:20 PM
 #33

Did you all miss one valid point? Kevin Day or whoever this person is may have been involved in the hack and this is his way of getting the funds out.

I dont trust this shit for a second.

You really don't know who kevin day is?  And you're speculating he's behind this?  I generally don't flame people on boards, but do some research and ask some folks who are "in the know" before you post idiotic statements.

Oh go blow a fat goat and please come to the rescue of your buddy why dont you.

I assume Kevin Day is the one holding the BATLIGHT when in need.

Go scam someone else or just stfu, this is way to convenient. Yes of couse he had an open order of >250k at exactly the right low price so that he would buy it all up.

Troll troll troll along in the rain.

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Anduril
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June 20, 2011, 07:27:59 PM
 #34

And Kevin Day must return the stuff, or he is liable of receiving several million USD of stolen goods, that will throw him squarely into felony in several countries, and I am sure is better to be millionaire for a day and then poor, than to be a arrested millionaire for several years that will have to pay a millionaire fine. (and thus will be poor again anyway)

There cannot be a felony unless you can prove that there was theft. As BTCs have no legal status, they are unregulated and therefore not subject to theft. The best you could get away with is to claim hacking laws (e.g. Convention on Cybercrime).

There is a good argument to be made that BTCs are illegal in several countries, so good luck trying to get law enforcement involved.
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June 20, 2011, 07:30:03 PM
 #35

Someone sold 550k coins.

Kevin Day had a very old bid of a unknown (But very high amount) of coins at 0.01

about 250k of the coins being sold cleared the bid book.

Then 261k went to Kevin Day (or whoever is the "lucky" guy)

The guy that sold 550k coins, threw a buy order back, bought at 10 USD, and withdrew those coins (1000 USD in BTC was stolen, thus 100 BTC).

MtGox will roll back the fraudulent transaction, because it is fraudulent.


So, no, Kevin Day is not millionaire. But he will have some story to tell his grandchildren one day.



So, neither of them are lying.

And Kevin Day must return the stuff, or he is liable of receiving several million USD of stolen goods, that will throw him squarely into felony in several countries, and I am sure is better to be millionaire for a day and then poor, than to be a arrested millionaire for several years that will have to pay a millionaire fine. (and thus will be poor again anyway)

I guess you could call it a "Millionair for a minute"

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June 20, 2011, 07:30:25 PM
 #36

it's a misdemeanor class A to even log into somebodies account that does not belong to you.  Once you pass the $1500 mark of financial damage, you get into felony territory.

source : personal experience.

Read my thread about bringing bitcoins to court.

They have no intrinsic value, and aren't backed by any authority.

They are fucking worthless in the eyes of the Law.

Period.

If I take a giant shit in a coffee can and 500 people are all clamoring to give me $10,000 for it and I split it up amongst them, and then someone gets some of my warm excrement stolen from them, is a court going to award them compensation?

Why not?  Because my hot, steaming excrement isn't currency?  Well I've got 500 people sniffing my shit lined up to tell you otherwise, and they want their goddamn trades reversed or else there's class action on the way!

LOL...

You people are great.  I love you.

There are previous court cases all over the world of people winning lawsuits against thieves that stole virtual currency from several systems and items.

It does not matter if bitcoin is not legal tender. It is NOT worthless in the eyes of the law, any decent lawyer can prove that bitcoins are worth whatever people are paying for them, and thus if the lawyer show to the judge that BTC was worth 17.5 when the theft happened, the judge WILL understand that BTC was worth 17.5 and thus the value stolen was 17.5 * 550k, and that one person, Kevin, received 261k * 17.5 USD worth in goods, and knowing that it was given to him accidentally during a heist, he decided to keep it.

Thus, if someone (or even the government itself) sue Kevin for keeping the BTC, he will be charged for receiving 4 567 500 worth of stolen virtual goods. Like if he kept stolen WoW gold, or linden dollars, or a sword of 1000 truths, or facebook credits, or Ragnarok Online account, or whatever else that exists over internet and people actively trade.

Oh...oh, well...

I stand totally corrected.

Shit, do you think the statute of limitations on all the FLOOZ that got stolen from me when they were hot is past?

Fuck, I need to call my lawyer...

OH SNAP, I could probably sue for my hacked FARMVILLE account too!  All my cows were worth THOUSANDS on the open Farmville market!

Thanks bro, I will let you know how this goes. I'm out for justice.
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June 20, 2011, 07:31:03 PM
 #37

And Kevin Day must return the stuff, or he is liable of receiving several million USD of stolen goods, that will throw him squarely into felony in several countries, and I am sure is better to be millionaire for a day and then poor, than to be a arrested millionaire for several years that will have to pay a millionaire fine. (and thus will be poor again anyway)

There cannot be a felony unless you can prove that there was theft. As BTCs have no legal status, they are unregulated and therefore not subject to theft. The best you could get away with is to claim hacking laws (e.g. Convention on Cybercrime).

There is a good argument to be made that BTCs are illegal in several countries, so good luck trying to get law enforcement involved.

You are so wrong, there is something as common law. You dont need a court to decide if an unregulated item is flagged as theft or not.

In this case, this whole forum and bitcoin involved users know what happened was theft and the coins that got moves were stolen coins thus it is labelled as theft, simple as that.

If you want to trial it in court and have any leg to stand on then sure you would need to go by the law of the land but atm this is an online "trial" and we know the verdict clear and simple.

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

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speeder
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June 20, 2011, 07:31:37 PM
 #38

And Kevin Day must return the stuff, or he is liable of receiving several million USD of stolen goods, that will throw him squarely into felony in several countries, and I am sure is better to be millionaire for a day and then poor, than to be a arrested millionaire for several years that will have to pay a millionaire fine. (and thus will be poor again anyway)

There cannot be a felony unless you can prove that there was theft. As BTCs have no legal status, they are unregulated and therefore not subject to theft. The best you could get away with is to claim hacking laws (e.g. Convention on Cybercrime).

There is a good argument to be made that BTCs are illegal in several countries, so good luck trying to get law enforcement involved.

Again: Stuff do not need legal status to be named as "stuff"

Bitcoins exist. That is what matter to a judge if you claim your bitcoins were stolen.


Like I said, there are legal precents, even for non-currency things (there are at least one case that I know of someone being charged for stealing a sword in WoW without using in-game means)

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June 20, 2011, 07:32:02 PM
 #39

Did you all miss one valid point? Kevin Day or whoever this person is may have been involved in the hack and this is his way of getting the funds out.

I dont trust this shit for a second.

You really don't know who kevin day is?  And you're speculating he's behind this?  I generally don't flame people on boards, but do some research and ask some folks who are "in the know" before you post idiotic statements.

Oh go blow a fat goat and please come to the rescue of your buddy why dont you.

I assume Kevin Day is the one holding the BATLIGHT when in need.

Go scam someone else or just stfu, this is way to convenient. Yes of couse he had an open order of >250k at exactly the right low price so that he would buy it all up.

Troll troll troll along in the rain.

Or you could do some research.  Easier to flame on a message board I guess Smiley  To each his own.
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June 20, 2011, 07:33:00 PM
 #40

I was a strong rollback supporter, but with a question.
Why does MtGox really want to rollback? What does MtGox actually gain from helping the one big fat cat?
Less chance of one serious lawsuit?
Can some help answer/speculate?

Which one big fat cat are you referring to?  Rule of Law?  Or the entire bitcoin community?

Or do you really think that the only person (or people) hurt by this was the one guy (or several guys) that had their accounts liquidated?

People on both sides are hurting kjj, and the entire thing smells fishy to me. If possible please answer my question above in bold red, thanks.

Even a large number of people on both sides is trivial in comparison to the harm to the community, and to the rule of law.

Stolen goods are not the legitimate property of their holder, even if they were not involved in the theft.  A rollback is the only real option here.

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