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Author Topic: Bitcoin is money, everything else is credit.  (Read 2021 times)
pinkflower
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July 13, 2017, 08:06:07 AM
 #41

If you really think about it, BTC is nothing but a ledger with the record of all the inputs and outputs. If you think about it that way you wouldnt think of it as money. We dont even have the coins in our wallets. Its all right there in the ledger stored as UTXOs. If the world finds some value in that and they are willing to pay for over $2000 per 1 BTC, then ok.
Why are you so surprised? If bitcoin is used simply to invest the money I would have to maintain your sarcasm, but there are many people who perform some work and receive payment in bitcoins. This is already the emergence of the bitcoin economy, and this is serious.

If you understood what I was trying to say its supposed to bring you to a question. Is BTC a network of debits thats passed around? Think about it. I put money in, then I receive an input which I can spend later. Then I spend it to buy something, now I have to put in more money to have more inputs.



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July 13, 2017, 08:34:05 AM
 #42

Not that educated about economics but I can say that bitcoin seem to be a better form of money because its supply is fixed, there'll only be a certain number of coins that can be mined. It just seem more simple. On the other hand, fiat has its supply regulated by the government. They can restrict it to raise its value, or pump more to lower it. It wouldn't be hard for people to say that the value is just whatever the government and the banking institutions want it to be.

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July 13, 2017, 11:07:12 AM
 #43

Nothing gets on my nerves more than hearing "Bitcoin is an investment".

Bitcoin is not an investment, Bitcoin is money. In fact, everything other than gold and Bitcoin is simply credit.

Money is supposed to enrich, not impoverish; yet, inflationary credit (fiat) has done nothing but robbed the saver, the worker, and the retiree of his/her purchasing power while enriching Wall Street and asset holders.

Money created to become a medium of exchange, just simply like that. To enrich or impoverish? it depends on people who use it, try to earn, save and spend money. Bitcoin has many classifications ; as digital currency or money, as store of value, as an investment or commodity and someone can't force his opinion about the meaning of bitcoin and its usefulness back to each person who use it.

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Bitcoin, unlike credit, is not inflationary, but deflationary. The price of Bitcoin doesn't rise, the cost of goods relative to Bitcoin falls.

What is this? bitcoin do rise as it start from zero to over $2000, prices of goods also rise or decline depend on supply and demand but not relate to bitcoin falls obviously.

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Bitcoin has all the properties of money, and in my humble opinion, is a better monetary unit than gold.


I am not sure about that, bitcoin doesn't has all the properties of money;
- fiat currency is easier to spend than bitcoin
- most bitcoin transactions going through online network
- not everyone willing to accept bitcoin as payment method

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July 13, 2017, 05:20:58 PM
 #44

Money could be anything that people agree upon. Bitcoin could be a measurement of the debt as well as any other token.

So much for a theory. The practice is a little bit different, as not everything in the nowaday world can be used as money.

Deflationary currency is not so good of a money. As there is a theory that worse type of money, usualy infaltionary is replacing a better form of money for a simple reason, its easier to get. So I totaly do not agree with the OP here.

Maybe a deflationary money is better in an ideal world, but within the world that is based on consumer goods, deflationary currency would make people save more money, making a consumer good economy weaker, as people would buy less goods in the end.

There is a book by D. Graeber "debt the first 5000 years" where it is eloquently described, that the debt was prior to the use of money, and the money are just a form of a debt in form of a numbers ascribed to them. Ofcourse you can use tokens as a money to make its value more secure, but its still a form of a debt.
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July 13, 2017, 05:35:23 PM
 #45

Still gold is more stable than bitcoin, the use bitcoin is just warming up and all its users now are early adopters. So in the world of money its a newbie but has lot of potential. Nothing is surprising when you hear a word from pioneer investors that bitcoin can't replace the fiat system, but the good thing is we can take advantage of bitcoins high price as long as its still profitable.

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July 13, 2017, 06:08:03 PM
 #46

Money could be anything that people agree upon. Bitcoin could be a measurement of the debt as well as any other token.

Deflationary currency is not so good of a money. As there is a theory that worse type of money, usualy infaltionary is replacing a better form of money for a simple reason, its easier to get. So I totaly do not agree with the OP here.

Maybe a deflationary money is better in an ideal world, but within the world that is based on consumer goods, deflationary currency would make people save more money, making a consumer good economy weaker, as people would buy less goods in the end.


Computer and cell-phone manufacturers produce better products at lower prices every year - deflation - yet people keep buying.

Savings are essential. Investment is a function of savings and drives production. Production is wealth.

Any 'consumption' based economy will only muddle along, failing to grow its productive capacity.
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July 13, 2017, 07:08:30 PM
 #47

Sometimes back I remember a topic here which reads like : bitcoin is alone currency and all other altcoins are just applications.

Bitcoin is money I agree, at the same time it must be more than money. It must be a store of value along with investment vehicle. After gold (except few other precious metals and stone), human race is preparing to transact themselves without help of governments and central banks.

Bitcoin is more than money as it is a whole new system. It may replace fiats/gold/banking system and may introduce a new concept of world wide one single currency.

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July 14, 2017, 06:26:08 AM
 #48

Still gold is more stable than bitcoin, the use bitcoin is just warming up and all its users now are early adopters.

If you think on price then yes, but bitcoin made it clear that it will be most valuable thing in this world so far.

Bitcoin is money I agree, at the same time it must be more than money. It must be a store of value along with investment vehicle. After gold (except few other precious metals and stone), human race is preparing to transact themselves without help of governments and central banks.

Bitcoin is more than money as it is a whole new system. It may replace fiats/gold/banking system and may introduce a new concept of world wide one single currency.

If we dont look on bitcoin as money then it would not be in this position or with this price. But for bitcoin to be primary mean of paying (like your reply many think that some day bitcoin will replace fiat) it will take lot more then just some of us say thin or to think on this. Still bitcoin if we look on payment mean is young currency many still refuse to accept it or to adopt it.

In the end when this happens it will be completely different system and it will be completely different payment systems in the world.



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August 10, 2017, 05:20:11 PM
 #49

Bitcoin is both money as well as an investment.When it is used to buy any product,it acts as money.If it is saved with the aim of getting huge returns,then it acts as an investment.Bitcoin is the real money and paper currencies are just credit which is an assurance given by the government that it would pay the amount in return for it.

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August 10, 2017, 10:12:42 PM
 #50

Bitcoin is not an investment, Bitcoin is money. In fact, everything other than gold and Bitcoin is simply credit.
~snip~
Bitcoin has all the properties of money, and in my humble opinion, is a better monetary unit than gold.

The idea of bitcoin is become a digital currency, Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System. Satoshi intended to created a digital form of money, but current situation lead bitcoin as a trading object, that's why people state it as an investment due to their money growing on bitcoin. But it's likely to change if most business, groceries, retailers and merchants accepting bitcoin payment, so people don't have to convert bitcoin into fiat currency in order to cover their daily expenses. Bitcoin will achieve that because it is a better monetary system than fiat currency if blockchain can afford thousands transactions in second.

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August 11, 2017, 01:11:54 AM
 #51

Bitcoin is both money as well as an investment.When it is used to buy any product,it acts as money.If it is saved with the aim of getting huge returns,then it acts as an investment.Bitcoin is the real money and paper currencies are just credit which is an assurance given by the government that it would pay the amount in return for it.

i think the same like you but I think bitcoin now is only the money in online world and we can used it to buy something in online store for now. but I am sure that in future, when bitcoin is approving by many country and they decided to make bitcoin as a bridge for payment from online to offline, then bitcoin is like money and nothing different. bitcoin can offering to people to used bitcoin because the fee is not big as they used their credit card in offline store.


 
 
 
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hardforkcoin
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August 11, 2017, 01:54:47 AM
 #52

Bitcoin is for sure useful as a currency/P2P digital cash/Long Term Store of Value.

The currency part is obvious. We know how much there will be. When it will halve in rewards. What updates the majority wish to have happen.

The Long Term Store of Value is the above things mixed in together. We know the supply/future supply. Demand has been increasing and therefore more people are willing to buy BTC. The more people willing to buy BTC means the price should go up because the supply available to buy goes down.

Bitcoin COULD be used as credit, but not specifically on-chain. Companies could give out loans in some ICO altcoin they create or something like that. It just wouldn't be on the BTC chain.

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August 12, 2017, 02:03:23 AM
 #53

I do agree with your point of view, but somethings are still incorrect in it. The way you are using credit is incorrect, since credit is usually something that is related to lending money. For example this user may have a good credit history, which will make him available to loans. The point that bitcoin is at right now, it isn’t a good form of online money. Sure segwit did make fees lower, but they are still, pretty high. The fees, will make it hard to use with lower transactions and for people who make a lot of smaller transactions.


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ubitcoin
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August 15, 2017, 01:21:22 PM
 #54

Bitcoin is not an investment, Bitcoin is money. In fact, everything other than gold and Bitcoin is simply credit.
~snip~
Bitcoin has all the properties of money, and in my humble opinion, is a better monetary unit than gold.

The idea of bitcoin is become a digital currency, Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System. Satoshi intended to created a digital form of money, but current situation lead bitcoin as a trading object, that's why people state it as an investment due to their money growing on bitcoin. But it's likely to change if most business, groceries, retailers and merchants accepting bitcoin payment, so people don't have to convert bitcoin into fiat currency in order to cover their daily expenses. Bitcoin will achieve that because it is a better monetary system than fiat currency if blockchain can afford thousands transactions in second.
Yes, that’s true. Most people sees it as investment due to the growth and the rate profit they make from its growth. But the real fact is that Bitcoin is money in its own way, and as the OP said, anything apart from Bitcoin is credit.
I do see lots of matured men and women that served their country for many years and when they retire, getting their payment/pension becomes a problem.
garmerys
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August 28, 2017, 07:35:52 AM
 #55

Bitcoin isn’t money as par real cash, bitcoin is just like a store of value which you can exchange for money, though some people have started accepting it as a form of money which automatically turns it to me, its just like shares which you buy with money and also sell for money
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August 28, 2017, 09:15:08 AM
 #56

I also see a BTC more like a digital commodity and not like a money as you measure its value based on fiat currency you call a credit. If BTC would not rise i compare to a credit money you would not noticed and would not call it money. The limited supply of BTC cant be used for monetary policies when recession hits the economy. How you will stimulate a BTC circulation if the value of it constantly grow. And what kind of effect would such of money have on economy? From this point of view BTC seems to be a commodity same as gold, grain, oil, etc. 
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August 28, 2017, 10:11:38 AM
 #57

Bitcoin isn’t money as par real cash, bitcoin is just like a store of value which you can exchange for money, though some people have started accepting it as a form of money which automatically turns it to me, its just like shares which you buy with money and also sell for money

Do you consider bitcoin as stocks, then its ok to say this. You store them and collected them and then when time is right you sell.
Bitcoin is something far more then money some say its asset, other gold of new age, many names.

Best part is that anyone can use it no matter how low they have knowledge about bitcoin.



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Mahanton
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August 28, 2017, 10:21:03 AM
 #58

Bitcoin isn’t money as par real cash, bitcoin is just like a store of value which you can exchange for money, though some people have started accepting it as a form of money which automatically turns it to me, its just like shares which you buy with money and also sell for money

Do you consider bitcoin as stocks, then its ok to say this. You store them and collected them and then when time is right you sell.
Bitcoin is something far more then money some say its asset, other gold of new age, many names.

Best part is that anyone can use it no matter how low they have knowledge about bitcoin.
It cant really be avoided and its just really a normal thing on which bitcoin do have different forms or on how people do treat it since we do have different minds. No matter what would be the thing we do treat it as long we can able to use and make money anytime on storing it then it would be always a win-win situation for us. Some people do really treat it as a stock,assets or whatsoever.I do believe only the thing that this is one of a hell good investment.

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virtualkeybuyer
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August 28, 2017, 10:26:03 PM
 #59

Bitcoin isn’t money as par real cash, bitcoin is just like a store of value which you can exchange for money, though some people have started accepting it as a form of money which automatically turns it to me, its just like shares which you buy with money and also sell for money

Do you consider bitcoin as stocks, then its ok to say this. You store them and collected them and then when time is right you sell.
Bitcoin is something far more then money some say its asset, other gold of new age, many names.

Best part is that anyone can use it no matter how low they have knowledge about bitcoin.
It cant really be avoided and its just really a normal thing on which bitcoin do have different forms or on how people do treat it since we do have different minds. No matter what would be the thing we do treat it as long we can able to use and make money anytime on storing it then it would be always a win-win situation for us. Some people do really treat it as a stock,assets or whatsoever.I do believe only the thing that this is one of a hell good investment.
It is a sort of stock, assets. Many believe bitcoin like this. They may be true is some regard. I think it has much resemblance with stock because of selling and buying and trading. Whatever you may call bitcoin, I just believe it will be the source of cash and assets and stock and many much more.

richkellj
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August 29, 2017, 01:26:14 PM
 #60

Bitcoin isn’t money as par real cash, bitcoin is just like a store of value which you can exchange for money, though some people have started accepting it as a form of money which automatically turns it to me, its just like shares which you buy with money and also sell for money
I pretty much agree with you in this regard but there is little confusion about the nature of bitcoins. Some people consider it investment; some asset and others treat it like money. I think it has versatile functions and is serving in all ways well. We can consider it as money because we do use bitcoin for buying goods.

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