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Author Topic: Why Ripple™ is against everything Bitcoin  (Read 43074 times)
smoothie
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May 20, 2013, 06:09:56 PM
 #741

I should have known better that Mr. b would delete my post below from his moderated thread. Lol censorship gotta love it.

Nope, not censorship just keeping the thread orderly. You correctly pointed out that the source to the server is not currently available so I replied with the list of known facts, one of which is that the source code is not available just yet.


And that fact disputes all of your claims of what ripple can do internally and all of the functions existing within. You are only goin on ripple devs word. So no you aren't being orderly just making claims you have no proof of without the source.

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May 20, 2013, 06:11:41 PM
 #742

Smoothie would you or TradeFortress, or anyone, care to wager some Bitcoins on whether or not Ripple source code becomes available this year, and whether or not it functions as advertised?


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May 20, 2013, 06:12:12 PM
 #743

I've been spending a lot of time reading the Ripple wiki, and I like what this involves. It seems a bit complicated for a basic user to understand right away, but the premise behind it seems really solid.

I especially like the fact that all the XRP has already been created. To me, I still find this concept of mining a bit confusing. I can't imagine what the general public would think a la Bitcoins.

My question to you in response to your post is this: how can individuals help to drive adoption? When I see a bug, I post it in github, but I'm hoping that perhaps there are other things that I could do to help. I'd like to get involved because this is a really easy system to move money around in but really needs community involvement to work.
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May 20, 2013, 06:13:34 PM
 #744

why would a validator validate if they're not getting paid?  Joel says altruism.  i say no, Ripple won't be able to depend on that.  this is why Bitcoin pays miners, which is essentially validating.

Independence. Bitcoin needs to pay the miners because Bitcoin validation is more resource intensive.

Quote
if gateways then act as validators then how can they hide behind Tor?  Mr. B said that gateways would have to be banks or an institution that runs KYC and has valid licensing.

A legal gateway yes, but not an underground one. Besides, I was talking about validators, not gateways.

ROI is not a verb, the term you're looking for is 'to break even'.
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May 20, 2013, 06:14:32 PM
 #745

why would a validator validate if they're not getting paid?  Joel says altruism.  i say no, Ripple won't be able to depend on that.  this is why Bitcoin pays miners, which is essentially validating.
But there are no miners in Ripple. The Ripple equivalent to a validator is a regular Bitcoin client that relays transactions between nodes. Those people aren't paid.

The difference in work to run a validator versus running a tracking server is nearly zero. It's just a few extra signature operations. People will run tracking servers because that assures them immediate access to everything on the Ripple network. They will relay and process because, unless they pull their weight, they will have to rely on the altruism of others for access to the network. If altruism is unreliable, then people *will* run validators because otherwise, they'll have to rely on altruism.

Quote
if gateways then act as validators then how can they hide behind Tor?  Mr. B said that gateways would have to be banks or an institution that runs KYC and has valid licensing.
Some gateways will probably act as vaildators. Not every validator has to.

I am an employee of Ripple. Follow me on Twitter @JoelKatz
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May 20, 2013, 06:16:13 PM
 #746

Quote
if gateways then act as validators then how can they hide behind Tor?  Mr. B said that gateways would have to be banks or an institution that runs KYC and has valid licensing.
Some gateways will probably act as vaildators. Not every validator has to.

I knew Bitcoin nodes could run behind Tor, but wasn't sure about Ripple validators. Can they work over Tor?

ROI is not a verb, the term you're looking for is 'to break even'.
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May 20, 2013, 06:18:19 PM
 #747

I knew Bitcoin nodes could run behind Tor, but wasn't sure about Ripple validators. Can they work over Tor?
Yes, but they won't add as much to the security of the system because of the added latency. The rest of the network won't always wait for them. If there are too many high-latency validators, it will make the network slower because the code won't let the network shrink to a small subset of "super fast validators", nor will it run as slow as the slowest validator. It strikes a balance, and nodes running over tor push that balance towards slower confirmations while more often finding themselves excluded because by the time they have enough information to help make a decision, a super-majority has already made the decision.

I'm not exactly sure what tor's latency is. If it's less than a second round-trip, then it probably won't matter.

I am an employee of Ripple. Follow me on Twitter @JoelKatz
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May 20, 2013, 06:18:28 PM
 #748

Wow your responses above are filled with emotion. Looks like I struck a nerve in the emotion you have with your ripple investment?

Just as I thought you won't post the code. Okay now I know where you stand lol.

Yep, you struck a nerve, the wasting time is a waste one Smiley And you keep poking it!

You never did answer my question, though; why would I post the code? It isn't mine to post, you can access it in the exact same way I did and what would it prevent you from saying "yes, but how do we know that is the real code" unless you got it from the real guys?

See, "and your mother!" again. But yes, now that you know where I stand I am unfortunately reminded where you stand and that my expectation (hope) that you were really trying to understand, not just slander and troll, are not met and this was all a waste of time. Oh well, live and learn.

Oh, and by the way, my investment in ripple was only one of time, that for me is more valuable than most currency. At least with ripple there's a chance it pays off. You, not so much, but thank you for reminding me that forum saying about trolls and food.
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May 20, 2013, 06:23:01 PM
 #749

why would a validator validate if they're not getting paid?  Joel says altruism.  i say no, Ripple won't be able to depend on that.  this is why Bitcoin pays miners, which is essentially validating.
But there are no miners in Ripple. The Ripple equivalent to a validator is a regular Bitcoin client that relays transactions between nodes. Those people aren't paid.

The difference in work to run a validator versus running a tracking server is nearly zero. It's just a few extra signature operations. People will run tracking servers because that assures them immediate access to everything on the Ripple network. They will relay and process because, unless they pull their weight, they will have to rely on the altruism of others for access to the network. If altruism is unreliable, then people *will* run validators because otherwise, they'll have to rely on altruism.

Quote
if gateways then act as validators then how can they hide behind Tor?  Mr. B said that gateways would have to be banks or an institution that runs KYC and has valid licensing.
Some gateways will probably act as vaildators. Not every validator has to.


or it just fails, Joel.
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May 20, 2013, 06:28:56 PM
 #750

Yes, but they won't add as much to the security of the system because of the added latency.

Ah, I hadn't thought of that. It doesn't matter for Bitcoin, but it might for Ripple. Good to know there is logic to prevent concentrating power in a handful of fast nodes.

ROI is not a verb, the term you're looking for is 'to break even'.
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May 20, 2013, 06:57:45 PM
 #751

Ah, I hadn't thought of that. It doesn't matter for Bitcoin, but it might for Ripple. Good to know there is logic to prevent concentrating power in a handful of fast nodes.

Schwartz and the others are brilliant...they have thought of a lot of things.


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May 20, 2013, 07:00:58 PM
 #752

I wonder if Joel is an old Forth hacker.  Wink

ROI is not a verb, the term you're looking for is 'to break even'.
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May 20, 2013, 07:24:18 PM
 #753

Wow your responses above are filled with emotion. Looks like I struck a nerve in the emotion you have with your ripple investment?

Just as I thought you won't post the code. Okay now I know where you stand lol.

Yep, you struck a nerve, the wasting time is a waste one Smiley And you keep poking it!

You never did answer my question, though; why would I post the code? It isn't mine to post, you can access it in the exact same way I did and what would it prevent you from saying "yes, but how do we know that is the real code" unless you got it from the real guys?

See, "and your mother!" again. But yes, now that you know where I stand I am unfortunately reminded where you stand and that my expectation (hope) that you were really trying to understand, not just slander and troll, are not met and this was all a waste of time. Oh well, live and learn.

Oh, and by the way, my investment in ripple was only one of time, that for me is more valuable than most currency. At least with ripple there's a chance it pays off. You, not so much, but thank you for reminding me that forum saying about trolls and food.

You proved my point. You are bound by the devs not to release it publicly.

First you ask insinuate I look at the code. I call you out to prove you have the code. And of course you produce nothing but excuses.

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May 20, 2013, 07:29:11 PM
 #754

I've been spending a lot of time reading the Ripple wiki, and I like what this involves. It seems a bit complicated for a basic user to understand right away, but the premise behind it seems really solid.

I especially like the fact that all the XRP has already been created. To me, I still find this concept of mining a bit confusing. I can't imagine what the general public would think a la Bitcoins.

My question to you in response to your post is this: how can individuals help to drive adoption? When I see a bug, I post it in github, but I'm hoping that perhaps there are other things that I could do to help. I'd like to get involved because this is a really easy system to move money around in but really needs community involvement to work.

The ripple system may has its value and now it's recognized by the bitcoin community. However, XRP don't have any value. Other devs who use Ripple's code and creat a fair system will win the future, but not the short-sighted (sell mtgox) and selfish ( pre-min 20% of the coin for himself) OpenCoin team.

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May 20, 2013, 07:41:52 PM
 #755

I've been spending a lot of time reading the Ripple wiki, and I like what this involves. It seems a bit complicated for a basic user to understand right away, but the premise behind it seems really solid.

I especially like the fact that all the XRP has already been created. To me, I still find this concept of mining a bit confusing. I can't imagine what the general public would think a la Bitcoins.

My question to you in response to your post is this: how can individuals help to drive adoption? When I see a bug, I post it in github, but I'm hoping that perhaps there are other things that I could do to help. I'd like to get involved because this is a really easy system to move money around in but really needs community involvement to work.

The ripple system may has its value and now it's recognized by the bitcoin community. However, XRP don't have any value. Other devs who use Ripple's code and creat a fair system will win the future, but not the short-sighted (sell mtgox) and selfish ( pre-min 20% of the coin for himself) OpenCoin team.

+1 XRP are worthless yet they are already exchanging them as if they have value. Who is selling goods for XRP? What websites accept XRP?

What is to stop regulators from shutting open coin down?

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May 20, 2013, 07:47:24 PM
 #756

Someone posed the question about manipulation by open coin holding a huge supply of XRP.

Omg mr bigg asks in his moderated thread in response:

"Is manipulation so bad?"

Yeah if you are the one being manipulated at the potential gain of another. So many fails lol

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HorseRider
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May 20, 2013, 07:52:31 PM
 #757

Bitcoin win the battle with the alt coins for nearly 2 years, however, Ripple will fail the war with alt Ripple in a lightning speed.  As Ripple pre-mined XRP in such a greedy style.

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misterbigg
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May 20, 2013, 07:53:18 PM
 #758

+1 XRP are worthless yet they are already exchanging them as if they have value.

The definition of worthless is having no value. But if they are being exchanged for value then they are not worthless are they?

You mean to say that they are worthless to you. That does not make them worthless, it just means that your subjective valuation of them is zero.

Quote
What is to stop regulators from shutting open coin down?

This is the first productive statement that you've made and one that is finally worth answering. Nothing stops regulators from shutting OpenCoin down. I think the source code would be published at the point, since according to one of the developers there is something to that effect in his employment contract.

It is definitely in OpenCoin's best interest to lose all control they have over Ripple as soon as possible. I believe they are working hard to achieve that goal.

"Is manipulation so bad?"

Yeah if you are the one being manipulated at the potential gain of another.

Its easy to avoid getting manipulated by OpenCoin's XRP operations - simply don't invest money in XRP!

Where did you get the idea that you have to put all your money into XRP in order for Ripple to be useful to you?


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mmeijeri
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May 20, 2013, 08:00:37 PM
 #759

Misterbigg is right, and Jed McCaleb has first hand experience of being shut down by the government. I think he knows how important it is for OpenCoin to make sure it's no longer in control of Ripple as soon as possible - but no sooner. And this time round, the stakes are much, much higher.

ROI is not a verb, the term you're looking for is 'to break even'.
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May 20, 2013, 08:17:20 PM
 #760

Misterbigg is right, and Jed McCaleb has first hand experience of being shut down by the government. I think he knows how important it is for OpenCoin to make sure it's no longer in control of Ripple as soon as possible - but no sooner. And this time round, the stakes are much, much higher.

Then we should only talk when this happens. Eveything here is a waste of time.

For now, they are nothing more than petty liars and scammers. They have to either correct the lies on their website or opensource the project, nothing else will change that.

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