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Author Topic: Why Ripple™ is against everything Bitcoin  (Read 45115 times)
TradeFortress
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May 16, 2013, 12:23:35 PM
 #581

Just some replies from my social experiment:

Wow,had no idea. Yes this will lead to people being scammed big time. I will make sure to take part in ripple threads from now on and try to bring awareness to this. BTW I think the way you put up this free giveaway thing to make your point is pure genius.
-Bitsinmyhead

so how can we spread the word and bring ripple down?

hey, thanks for the campaign against ripple. ppl should be aware that its even worse than fiat and now it exist only to get rich as fuck. keep up your good marketing Smiley
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May 16, 2013, 01:23:35 PM
 #582

Just some replies from my social experiment:

Wow,had no idea. Yes this will lead to people being scammed big time. I will make sure to take part in ripple threads from now on and try to bring awareness to this. BTW I think the way you put up this free giveaway thing to make your point is pure genius.
-Bitsinmyhead

so how can we spread the word and bring ripple down?

hey, thanks for the campaign against ripple. ppl should be aware that its even worse than fiat and now it exist only to get rich as fuck. keep up your good marketing Smiley

Why did your giveaway topic disappear?

Btw, trying to sell your debt, no luck so far: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=207054.0

You could participate Wink

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May 16, 2013, 01:26:52 PM
 #583

Oh, I can also do a social experiment.

1. Will take some BTC loan on the forum
2. Will not pay it back
3. Claim that BTC is EVIL SCAM and more important Bitcointalk is EVIL SCAM

 Tongue
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May 16, 2013, 01:32:52 PM
 #584

Oh, I can also do social experiment.

1. Will take some BTC loan on the forum
2. Will not pay it back
3. Claim that BTC is EVIL SCAM and more important Bitcointalk is EVIL SCAM

 Tongue

This reminds me of Matthew Wright's trolling. He received a scammer tag for that and had to actually settle it with his so called "victims" in order to get rid of it.

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May 16, 2013, 01:34:28 PM
 #585

This reminds me of Matthew Wright's trolling. He received a scammer tag for that and had to actually settle it with his so called "victims" in order to get rid of it.

Ah, I always wondered why he is labeled "Untrustworthy"...
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May 16, 2013, 05:23:06 PM
 #586


That's a good point. The original idea for Ripple focused on transferring money between actual people. The new Ripple focuses more on gateways which are basically just banks. Ripple isn't much different than any old bank payment network. I'm really surprised that Ryan Fugger signed on to all of this.



Don't be surprised. As they are able to lie publicly that they are "first" and "open", they can lie very differently to get the money from the VC. and I bet some of the VC partners may have get some XRP bribes from the OpenCoin, and then the corrupted partner just push this deal on the investment committee. It's not big deal and one partner persists and other partners won't against that much.

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May 16, 2013, 06:10:30 PM
 #587

But since you are at it, can you elaborate on how the XRPs are generated?  and What measures are in place to stop the company from printing more in the future?
The genesis ledger puts a configurable number of XRPs in a well-known account. This is the only way XRPs can be "generated".

Right now, the only thing stopping OpenCoin from printing more XRP is the fact that we have not created any method to do so, have promised not to create any method of doing so, and doing so would open us up to dozens of lawsuits. The only way to do so would be to get the majority of validators to agree to the change, and even then it's possible (in fact, I hope this would happen) a stubborn minority could split the ledger and ultimately win. So once the network is distributed, this is as difficult as raising the Bitcoin block reward.


Joel, I've read that OpenCoin plans to hold about 25% of the XRPs in existence, as an appreciating asset. I have two questions about this:
   - If XRPs are just stamps/tokens to throttle spammers, not the transaction payload; and you expect the current supply of XRPs to last everyone on Planet Earth for their lifetime of transactions, why would you expect XRP's to appreciate in value at all?
   - What's the revenue (not asset) model for OpenCoin to make money? It doesn't seem like there's anything intrinsic to the Ripple network that allows you to grab, for example, a transaction fee. Are you planning to be one of the gateways, among other peer gateways?
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May 16, 2013, 06:40:10 PM
 #588

- If XRPs are just stamps/tokens to throttle spammers, not the transaction payload; and you expect the current supply of XRPs to last everyone on Planet Earth for their lifetime of transactions, why would you expect XRP's to appreciate in value at all?
The price of XRP is just a matter of supply and demand. We believe that broad adoption of Ripple as a payment platform will drive demand.

Quote
- What's the revenue (not asset) model for OpenCoin to make money? It doesn't seem like there's anything intrinsic to the Ripple network that allows you to grab, for example, a transaction fee. Are you planning to be one of the gateways, among other peer gateways?
We don't currently plan to do anything but develop and promote the Ripple payment network.

I am an employee of Ripple. Follow me on Twitter @JoelKatz
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May 16, 2013, 06:45:53 PM
 #589

XRPs are just stamps/tokens to throttle spammers

I believe it is clear that XRP is a currency. Specifically, one that is native to Ripple and a fundamental part of the design. This idea that they are "mere stamps" is a total fiction. Once Ripple is open sourced, XRP will be money the same way that Bitcoin is money. Although one obvious difference is the manner in which they are distributed.

Quote
you expect the current supply of XRPs to last everyone on Planet Earth for their lifetime of transactions

Since the protocol allows the transaction fee and reserve schedule to change, even a dwindling supply of XRP will always be able to support any amount of transaction volume.

Quote
why would you expect XRP's to appreciate in value at all?

XRP should appreciate for the same reason that any finite resource appreciates - because of increasing demand. Transaction fees and reserve requirements are only one component of the demand equation, and a less important one at that for the reason that the fees and reserves can be adjusted in real time to more closely reflect validator's actual costs of computational resources instead of being affected by speculators.

A much larger component for XRP demand comes from its utility in acting as a "reserve" currency for creating liquidity in order books. As new gateways come online, the combinatorial explosion of IOU pairs makes it impractical for liquidity providers to operate in all books. Instead, it is expected that these providers will instead provide conversions to and from XRP for selected IOUs. Ripple's pathfinding algorithm will then use these XRP "bridges" to allow exchanges between any IOUs.

This use-case is explained in the wiki:

Scaling Cross Currency Arbitrage

Quote
What's the revenue (not asset) model for OpenCoin to make money?

It's already been stated by a principal from OpenCoin: "We hold XRPs and hope they go up in value."


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  BLOG
   
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  BOUNTY
   
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May 16, 2013, 06:55:44 PM
 #590

- If XRPs are just stamps/tokens to throttle spammers, not the transaction payload; and you expect the current supply of XRPs to last everyone on Planet Earth for their lifetime of transactions, why would you expect XRP's to appreciate in value at all?
The price of XRP is just a matter of supply and demand. We believe that broad adoption of Ripple as a payment platform will drive demand.

Quote
- What's the revenue (not asset) model for OpenCoin to make money? It doesn't seem like there's anything intrinsic to the Ripple network that allows you to grab, for example, a transaction fee. Are you planning to be one of the gateways, among other peer gateways?
We don't currently plan to do anything but develop and promote the Ripple payment network.


Thanks for the clear responses. So it sounds like you plan to let third party companies come in to help facilitate all of the other functions required here (helping existing companies get onto the Ripple network, monitoring/audit/security tools, fraud/risk modeling, POS, etc, etc) as opposed to building up that application suite yourself.

Another question -- is it possible to create, say, hundreds of new currencies (with distinct exchange rates against the existing currencies) within the Ripple network in a day without causing network problems? This would be for a genuine use case, not as spam.
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May 16, 2013, 07:12:45 PM
 #591

Lying on your site & wiki that you are OPEN while you are really CLOSED makes you a SCAMMER already.
Seriously? You're going to repeat this as if you've never said it before and neither address nor even acknowledge the responses I've already made to this exact same point?

Yes, we're not yet as open as you would like us to be. But we are already more open than pretty much every other payment system out there.

Joel, can you delete those "open" words until you really open the source code on the front page?

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May 16, 2013, 08:00:38 PM
 #592

Lying on your site & wiki that you are OPEN while you are really CLOSED makes you a SCAMMER already.
Seriously? You're going to repeat this as if you've never said it before and neither address nor even acknowledge the responses I've already made to this exact same point?

Yes, we're not yet as open as you would like us to be. But we are already more open than pretty much every other payment system out there.

Joel, can you delete those "open" words until you really open the source code on the front page?

He can not.

Their buisness model is based on lying to people to get them in the game (as the rest of scammers do). If that wasn't the case, he would have done it already to cut the speculation, wouldn't he ?

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May 16, 2013, 08:01:54 PM
 #593

Thanks for the clear responses. So it sounds like you plan to let third party companies come in to help facilitate all of the other functions required here (helping existing companies get onto the Ripple network, monitoring/audit/security tools, fraud/risk modeling, POS, etc, etc) as opposed to building up that application suite yourself.
We will do what we can to drive adoption. Most of that will probably involve encouraging and assisting others. We plan to continue to develop client and server software for as long as necessary.

Quote
Another question -- is it possible to create, say, hundreds of new currencies (with distinct exchange rates against the existing currencies) within the Ripple network in a day without causing network problems? This would be for a genuine use case, not as spam.
Yes, that's not a problem.

Yes, we're not yet as open as you would like us to be. But we are already more open than pretty much every other payment system out there.
Joel, can you delete those "open" words until you really open the source code on the front page?
If you mean literally can I do it, no, I don't have access to the modify the web pages. If you mean do I think it would be a good idea to do that, I think it's not. The biggest difference between Ripple and every other payment network is that Ripple is much more open than other payment networks. As far as it being deceptive, the view that "open" means "open source" is, so far as I know, not a view that anyone actually holds.

I am an employee of Ripple. Follow me on Twitter @JoelKatz
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May 16, 2013, 10:23:21 PM
 #594

Joel, can you delete those "open" words until you really open the source code on the front page?
If you mean literally can I do it, no, I don't have access to the modify the web pages. If you mean do I think it would be a good idea to do that, I think it's not.

@HorseRider
Oh - there. See the above ?
Told ya. They just won't stop lying. They never do. It's how scammers work. They lie, until they gather enough naive & maniupulated people around their... "project" to scam them.

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May 16, 2013, 10:29:03 PM
 #595


Once Ripple is open sourced, XRP will be money the same way that Bitcoin is money.


Is it true that XRPs in existence have a current valuation of 17.2 million BTC?   



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May 16, 2013, 10:31:50 PM
 #596

Is it true that XRPs in existence have a current valuation of 17.2 million BTC?

100,000,000,000 (100b total XRP) divided by 76 (xrp/usd price) = $1,315,789,473

1,315,789,473 divided by $116 (Bitcoin price) =  11,343,012

So 11.3 million Bitcoins.

I don't think this is a very meaningful number though...the market for XRP has barely formed. In addition, XRPs become "sequestered" as reserves which means they are no longer available to sell or transfer. These factors make any estimate of "XRP valuation" to be quite unreliable.




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███
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smart-ticket protocol for events
live product with market traction!
    ███
███
███
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███
███
███
███
███
███
███
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May 16, 2013, 10:34:55 PM
 #597

I don't think this is a very meaningful number though...the market for XRP has barely formed.
Yeah, and you forgot to add, that since they are centralized (not decentralized as their site & wiki says - outright lie btw), they can print any amount at any given time. Especially if a government tells them to do so.

Without decentralization and opening sources they are merely any goverment's bitches, just like today's banks are.

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May 16, 2013, 10:43:08 PM
 #598

Ripple™ is a trademark of OpenCoin Inc, a private for-profit company. I am breaking their Terms of Service by using the trademark Ripple without permission. Sue me.

Satoshi Nakamoto:
Quote
The root problem with conventional currency is all the trust thats required to make it
work. The central bank must be trusted not to debase the currency, but the history of
fiat currencies is full of breaches of that trust. Banks must be trusted to hold our
money and transfer it electronically, but they lend it out in waves of credit bubbles
with barely a fraction in reserve. We have to trust them with our privacy, trust them
not to let identity thieves drain our accounts. Their massive overhead costs make
micropayments impossible.

With Bitcoin, you hold your own money. You control it.

With Ripple, you don't hold money. You hold debt, IOUs. You hold debt issued by a "gateway", a central authority.

As it is debt, they can print as much as they want, when they want. (Aka debasing).

>> See here, I printed myself 1 trillion bitcoins on ripple.

With Bitcoin, miners are required to use their computational power to earn new Bitcoins and transaction fees.

With Ripple, OpenCoin Inc issued themselves 100 billion ripples. They promised to only keep half (50%) for themselves.


With Bitcoin, nobody can spend your money without your private keys.

With Ripple, as the server source code has not being released and it is still proprietary, OpenCoin Inc can change the rules and spend your money.


Bitcoin is v2.0 of money - where you control it in a democratic process via mining. Core network rules are embedded in open source code.

Ripple is v1.1 of money - building on top of existing central banks, and fiat money. Their current marketing efforts are set to overtake and destroy BTC, with their centralized system.

Learn more: http://ripplescam.org/


Thanks!, you pretty much summed it up for me, for my ripple questions all-in-one thread here you created.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=207609.0
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May 16, 2013, 11:02:44 PM
 #599

Ha, I didn't even read this part, prior to making my thread linked above. Makes absolute sense.

Just some replies from my social experiment:

Wow,had no idea. Yes this will lead to people being scammed big time. I will make sure to take part in ripple threads from now on and try to bring awareness to this. BTW I think the way you put up this free giveaway thing to make your point is pure genius.
-Bitsinmyhead

so how can we spread the word and bring ripple down?

hey, thanks for the campaign against ripple. ppl should be aware that its even worse than fiat and now it exist only to get rich as fuck. keep up your good marketing Smiley
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May 16, 2013, 11:14:11 PM
 #600

Another thing:
See, that's something I can not agree with. Lying to get the public to come in and throw money at you, sure.
(...)
But stating they'll be open just not right now to drive adoption?

But that is NOT what they are stating.

They are stating (on their page & wiki) that they are OPEN SOURCE and DECENTRALIZED *RIGHT NOW*, not in some distant future.

So when they get people to invest money and time to the ripple idea, that is an outright scam.
Thanks for putting RippleScam.org in your signature. I've tipped a bitcoin to your address.

Please keep in mind that this is a tip, and it is not an endorsement of ShadowOfHarbringer's messages in any way.

Here is the code, for that signature. Which I will gladly sponsor.

Code:
[size=7pt]|| Ripple is a [color=red]SCAM[/color]. [/size][url=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=201794.0][size=7pt][Source1][/size][/url] [url=http://ripplescam.org/][size=7pt][Source2][/size][/url]
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