Bitcoin Forum
July 31, 2016, 01:39:05 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.12.1 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: EFF donations and the Bitcoin Faucet  (Read 14665 times)
Gavin Andresen
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1652


Chief Scientist


View Profile WWW
June 20, 2011, 08:38:54 PM
 #1

Cindy Cohn, legal director at the EFF, called me a while ago to figure out what to do with the bitcoin donations they were sent, and what to do with coins that might be sent to their donation address in the future.

Ideally, they'd like to return them, but that can't be done-- bitcoin has no "return to sender" function. Returning to the last-address-the-coins-were-sent-to doesn't work because people use shared online wallets and can, and do, send their coins to new wallets and delete old wallets.

The EFF is firm in their decision NOT to cash them in (they'll be coming out with a blog post explaining their reasons very soon), and after talking over several possibilities the idea they liked best was to redistribute the coins via the Bitcoin Faucet (and have any donations that trickle in get passed back out via the Faucet).  The reasoning is that anybody who donated bitcoins to the EFF would also support the mission of the Faucet-- to promote bitcoin by giving people new to the currency a little bit to start.

Other options for what to do with the EFF donations (like setting up a non-profit entity to take the donations and... do something with them...) were rejected as too complicated and/or costly.

I'll need to do a little bit of thinking about how to handle the EFF coins safely (just dumping them all into the Faucet's wallet is not a good idea; I would hate for them to get lost if somebody managed to hack the Faucet's web-facing code). Whatever I do, I will make sure the process of moving the coins from the EFF's donation address to the Faucet is absolutely transparent.

How often do you get the chance to work on a potentially world-changing project?
1469929145
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1469929145

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1469929145
Reply with quote  #2

1469929145
Report to moderator
1469929145
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1469929145

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1469929145
Reply with quote  #2

1469929145
Report to moderator
1469929145
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1469929145

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1469929145
Reply with quote  #2

1469929145
Report to moderator
BitcoinVideoCasino 300+BTC Progressive Jackpots!
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1469929145
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1469929145

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1469929145
Reply with quote  #2

1469929145
Report to moderator
1469929145
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1469929145

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1469929145
Reply with quote  #2

1469929145
Report to moderator
1469929145
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1469929145

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1469929145
Reply with quote  #2

1469929145
Report to moderator
1469929145
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1469929145

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1469929145
Reply with quote  #2

1469929145
Report to moderator
S3052
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1862


BTC Up or Down? go to www.bullbearanalytics.com


View Profile WWW
June 20, 2011, 08:42:48 PM
 #2

Gavin, and EFF, this is the best solution in my p.o.v.
Wonderful and thanks.

>15years analysis experience

Always do your own due diligence & consult your financial advisor. Never invest unless you can afford to lose your entire investment.

http://twitter.com/BitcoinAnalyst

Subscribe here
Montpelerin
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 16


View Profile
June 20, 2011, 08:46:42 PM
 #3

I suspect this decision was made so as not to let their position regarding digital currency (esp. bitcoin) appear to be biased.

We shall see.
lemonginger
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 210


firstbits: 121vnq


View Profile
June 20, 2011, 08:48:56 PM
 #4

I feel like at this point the faucet will just be abused :/ sad but true

What about using the coins to seed a "bitcoin foundation" fund? I realize that a new organization was rejected as too complicated right now, but the faucet will just be a mad dash of people trying to grab all the cash they can. Can the coins just be held "in trust" until some future date?
epi 1:10,000
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 154


View Profile
June 20, 2011, 08:50:04 PM
 #5

I think opensource ecology would be a worthy recipient with no detrimental political implications.  It fits the open source for good ethos. They take bitcoins

Marcin Jakubowski: Open-sourced blueprints for civilization
http://www.ted.com/talks/marcin_jakubowski.html
http://opensourceecology.org/
bitplane
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 321

Firstbits: 1gyzhw


View Profile WWW
June 20, 2011, 08:53:37 PM
 #6

How many do they have? I suggest using them as bounties for EFF-related projects. Devs and campaigners can work for BTC, while they get useful work done for "free"

Or donate it to the TOR exit nodes project
Jack of Diamonds
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 252



View Profile
June 20, 2011, 08:55:52 PM
 #7

The faucet is dead as an idea now.

It was created ages ago to give people their first "feel" in the bitcoin world by handing out a few cents.

Now that it's price has risen and CPU mining became infeasible, people have enough motivation to screw over the system and try to profit by exploiting the faucet as efficiently as possible.

Hell, might just as well put a dollar faucet in the middle of Somalia & see how that turns out...
In the end it's just a few pirates and warlords with all the 'experimental' cash and the common man is left with a dry faucet.

A lottery or a donation to a real charity after converting it to cash would be better

1f3gHNoBodYw1LLs3ndY0UanYB1tC0lnsBec4USeYoU9AREaCH34PBeGgAR67fx
BitcoinPorn
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 518


Posts: 69


View Profile WWW
June 20, 2011, 09:00:35 PM
 #8

The faucet is dead as an idea now.

It was created ages ago to give people their first "feel" in the bitcoin world by handing out a few cents.

Way interesting post.  I have been "into" Bitcoin for a few weeks now.  Was in on Gox.  Now I'm "in" TradeHill (or at least pending).  But that faucet, well damn, just heard about it this morning from the Newbie forum, and I have to say that gave me that first 'feel' of Bitcoin, and after having my information possibly stolen this weekend and having to change a lot of online things, it was nice to show up and see a place where they are just handing it out to ensure people get some.

This Faucet needs to exist to counteract the fear that it could all be gone.

Or not.  Either way I liked it and I guess even used it for the true purpose just today, thanks Gavin Smiley

dayfall
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 312



View Profile
June 20, 2011, 09:03:45 PM
 #9

I prefer the faucet stay up and running.  I doubt anyone will seriously scam it for 0.001.  Just make sure it is secure or don't put all of it in at once.

I just donated 0.5 and it is already down to 0.23.  That does seem odd.
unk
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 84


View Profile
June 20, 2011, 09:14:43 PM
 #10

gavin: the deliberation and sensitivity to ethics here is encouraging. you're one of the few in the bitcoin community that i'd trust to handle this well and transparently.

if the faucet turns out for whatever reason to be unsuitable, another option is for the eff simply to retain the bitcoins without selling them. i'm not sure if that would address the concerns they have with selling them, but for whatever it's worth, that's been my own response to early-mined coins for a collection of personal, legal, ethical, and practical reasons. i simply keep them, not sure that i'll ever sell them.
Timo Y
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 938


bitcoin - the aerogel of money


View Profile
June 20, 2011, 09:17:05 PM
 #11

It would be a better idea to put them into a bounty for badly needed projects to help solve problems of wallet theft and wallet loss for the average user.
 
Eg. A user-friendly, secure liveCD or live USB drive configured for automatic online backup.

Not that the faucet doesn't help the promote bitcoin, but I don't think that is our biggest priority right now.  I think the faucet was vital during the embrionic stage, but it loses importance as bitcoin goes mainstream.

I have already donated 5 BTC to the faucet.  If I was given the choice to donate another time, I would never have donated an amount as large as 200 BTC to the faucet (no offense, Gavin).  Those funds were meant specifically to support EFF. If they won't have them, I would rather give them to the FSF than the faucet.

Perhaps the EFF should allow people to reclaim their donation by signing with the private keys from the originating addresses?  Complicated, but doable.

GPG ID: FA868D77   bitcoin-otc:forever-d
Rob P.
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 84



View Profile WWW
June 20, 2011, 09:23:24 PM
 #12

I'll need to do a little bit of thinking about how to handle the EFF coins safely (just dumping them all into the Faucet's wallet is not a good idea; I would hate for them to get lost if somebody managed to hack the Faucet's web-facing code). Whatever I do, I will make sure the process of moving the coins from the EFF's donation address to the Faucet is absolutely transparent.

I would contact Gavin.  He runs the Faucet.   Embarrassed  Gavin, I'd be all for the Developers getting all of them and/or send them to an address that Gavin you specify after you state you'll move them into the Faucet a few at a time.  That way no chance of the Faucet being abused, we see you're already making it harder and harder to double-dip at the Faucet.

The Faucet is the single biggest tool to get the general public into Bitcoins.  Users can get a millicoin and then send a microcoin back to the Faucet to see how the whole thing works.  

There's nothing more depressing than seeing a 0 balance in your client and wondering whether it's worth exploring.

--

If you like what I've written here, consider tipping the messenger:
1GZu4CtHa6ai8iWoWiVFxV5VVoNte4SkoG

If you don't like what I've written, send me a Tip and I'll stop talking.
gigabytecoin
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 280


View Profile
June 20, 2011, 09:25:19 PM
 #13

Until we can lock down the faucet or create a more secure way of distributing them, I do not support this.

Why don't we give the community the option to make their own faucets and vote on the best ones?
AbeSkray
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 72



View Profile
June 20, 2011, 09:25:45 PM
 #14

I feel like at this point the faucet will just be abused :/ sad but true
The faucet will be abused, but it won't be just abused. Scammers will manage to get their hands on BTC via the faucet, but it will also continue putting BTC into the hands of new users. I think the faucet is a great first step into the bitcoin economy and I'm happy to hear that it will be getting some more funding.
ironwolf
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 76


View Profile
June 20, 2011, 09:32:08 PM
 #15

I used the faucet to get my first coins, which were 0.02 if I recall correctly. It was a good demo. I was also the first person to notice the strange pattern on BitcoinMonitor.com that turned out to be the faucet's first major case of abuse.

It's too bad the EFF doesn't want the coins but I can see why they might want to not have any appearance of bias. So given that they don't want the coins I think giving them to the faucet isn't a bad idea, but it isn't that great an idea either because some people will abuse it. I think the best that can be done is make sure that the amount of coins the faucet gives out is enough to ensure a good demo but small enough that it would be prohibitively expensive for even bad actors to bother with another faucet raid.

Any way the faucet can just give out just a tiny multiple of the minimum that can be sent with the current client? Or perhaps just one Satoshi per customer... Smiley
joan
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 56



View Profile
June 20, 2011, 09:51:38 PM
 #16

I also believe the faucet is being abused unfortunately… (by the way someone proposed to make it return min(0.01, 10% remaining funds) in another thread)
BitcoinPorn
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 518


Posts: 69


View Profile WWW
June 20, 2011, 09:54:06 PM
 #17

I like the idea of the faucet only pours based on a percentage of what is left at any given time (maybe a daily check or something).   Keeps it less worthwhile for hackers, but ALWAYS something nice for the people with no coin Smiley

nickwit
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 80


View Profile
June 20, 2011, 11:08:46 PM
 #18

Well... as someone who has donated 25 btc to EFF, I am qualified to comment.


When I first started using bitcoins, The Faucet gave me .05. Id did get me started... so I do have some sympathy.

But not enough to donate 5000 times more than I got out of it.

What do I want? I want the EFF to accept bitcoins. Cash what you have... or, return to the donors accounts.
Rob P.
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 84



View Profile WWW
June 20, 2011, 11:35:02 PM
 #19

or, return to the donors accounts.

How?  Fill out a form if you donated and tell them how much?

--

If you like what I've written here, consider tipping the messenger:
1GZu4CtHa6ai8iWoWiVFxV5VVoNte4SkoG

If you don't like what I've written, send me a Tip and I'll stop talking.
QuantumMechanic
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 110


View Profile
June 21, 2011, 01:00:19 AM
 #20

or, return to the donors accounts.

How?  Fill out a form if you donated and tell them how much?
And sign it with the private key associated with the address you donated from.  I think there's a patch that allows you to do this.

Allow this for a certain period of time before sending everything to the faucet.
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!