[CLOSED] - Stumptown Miners - Avalon PCB Assembly - West Coast USA

[ryepdx]

TerraHash is assembling 64 chip boards for 1.99 BTC (around $230.00), and the 16 chip boards for 0.75 BTC (around $85.00). Definitely worth checking out.

Yeah, I've seen that. My value add is getting the boards sooner than you'd be getting them with Terrahash. It'll be more expensive, but you will be mining sooner. Particularly if you're in the Pacific Northwest and can do a face-to-face pickup. (I know the thought of my complete set of 8 K64s, or 30 K16s, going through the mail makes me nervous.)

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[SebastianJu]

Alright, BkkCoins has verified that I was giving the correct numbers. Here is the cheapest price per K16 board I could find for assembly in Oregon:

Qty	1 day	2 days	5 days	10 days
8	$513.63	$368.91	$330.14	$303.86
16	$471.44	$332.98	$297.33	$274.18
32	$450.34	$315.01	$280.92	$259.33
64	$439.80	$306.02	$272.72	$251.91

And here are the cheapest prices per K16 board I could find for PCB fabrication in Oregon:

Qty	1 days	2­ days	3­ days	4­ days	Electrical test
8	$266.52	$150.82	$121.89	$104.53	$196.33
16	$142.89	$80.76	$65.23	$55.91	$196.33
32	$81.08	$45.73	$36.89	$31.59	$196.33
64	$62.52	$35.08	$28.22	$24.10	$196.33

As BkkCoins said to me, "No wonder iPads aren't made in the USA."
I've got a couple of requests for quotes currently out, too, so I'll let you guys know if any come back with better prices. Tomorrow I'll take a look at prices for assembly up in Washington and start looking at part prices.

EDIT: BkkCoins says they know a place in Canada that offers $75 per board assembly. Going to be checking them out and then seeing if I can use their quote to knock some of these quotes down a peg. Hoping I don't have to cross national borders to get this thing done, but I'll do it if I have to. I've driven most of the way to Canada in a single day before, and that was without an early start.
Anyone know the laws regarding taking electronics back over the Canadian border?

Edit: Now i see the prices are for K16 only. It sounds like you want to create the pcb yourself. And the other list is for creating the miner with it. So you dont buy the set from klondike, you only built the miner after his plans?

I would like to add your offer in my dev-list (see my sig) and have some questions before.

The prices already contain your 9% or should i calculate it on top?

Do you buy the full set from klondike with all parts or the pcb only? If the pcb only... wouldnt the full set maybe be cheaper than buying the parts in us?

You wrote quantity... does this mean assembly of 8 x k64 boards or what is the quantity? And the days are the turnaround time after the boards are done, i assume.

I guess the 2 day creation has the best performance between price and turnaround and would suggest i put this price in the list as a first number (nothing fixed).

You will receive the asics and you bought the klondikes before, then you bring everything to the company and they create the miner. Then you ship the miner back to the owner or do you keep it and share the revenue?

Thats all...

[ryepdx]

Edit: Now i see the prices are for K16 only. It sounds like you want to create the pcb yourself. And the other list is for creating the miner with it. So you dont buy the set from klondike, you only built the miner after his plans?

Exactly. The only scenario in which I buy the set from BkkCoins is the one where they get dev chips far enough in advance of the rest of us to allow receipt of that set before I start receiving Avalon chips. I will be paying BkkCoins a licensing fee.

The prices already contain your 9% or should i calculate it on top?

They don't. The prices and times quoted are for assembly and fabrication only. I still need to price out parts. I have a call with a promising Corvallis-based plant in about two hours, and I may be able to get some firmer prices from them. (They specialize in end-to-end PCB construction for startups.)

You wrote quantity... does this mean assembly of 8 x k64 boards or what is the quantity? And the days are the turnaround time after the boards are done, i assume.

8 K16 boards, not panelized. I wanted to err high in my initial estimates as I'd hate to over-promise and under-deliver. And the turnaround time for assembly is after the boards are done being fabricated. I intend to begin fabricating the boards as soon as BkkCoins confirms the design with a prototype, so we may gain some time there. (Depends on how quick BkkCoins' turnaround is.)

I guess the 2 day creation has the best performance between price and turnaround and would suggest i put this price in the list as a first number (nothing fixed).

Seems that way right now. Again though, nothing is fixed yet. I still have a whole state full of plants to get quotes from. And I'll be on the phone with one of them at 3pm PST, so I'm pretty optimistic about that.

You will receive the asics and you bought the klondikes before, then you bring everything to the company and they create the miner. Then you ship the miner back to the owner or do you keep it and share the revenue?

I ship the miner back to the owner. No plans for hosting as of yet. I might hash something out if there's demand and I end up having enough time.

[SebastianJu]

Edit: Now i see the prices are for K16 only. It sounds like you want to create the pcb yourself. And the other list is for creating the miner with it. So you dont buy the set from klondike, you only built the miner after his plans?

Exactly. The only scenario in which I buy the set from BkkCoins is the one where they get dev chips far enough in advance of the rest of us to allow receipt of that set before I start receiving Avalon chips. I will be paying BkkCoins a licensing fee.

The prices already contain your 9% or should i calculate it on top?

They don't. The prices and times quoted are for assembly and fabrication only. I still need to price out parts. I have a call with a promising Washington-based plant in about two hours, and I may be able to get some firmer prices from them. (They specialize in end-to-end PCB construction for startups.)

You wrote quantity... does this mean assembly of 8 x k64 boards or what is the quantity? And the days are the turnaround time after the boards are done, i assume.

8 K16 boards, not panelized. I wanted to err high in my initial estimates as I'd hate to over-promise and under-deliver. And the turnaround time for assembly is after the boards are done being fabricated. I intend to begin fabricating the boards as soon as BkkCoins confirms the design with a prototype, so we may gain some time there. (Depends on how quick BkkCoins' turnaround is.)

I guess the 2 day creation has the best performance between price and turnaround and would suggest i put this price in the list as a first number (nothing fixed).

Seems that way right now. Again though, nothing is fixed yet. I still have a whole state full of plants to get quotes from. And I'll be on the phone with one of them at 3pm PST, so I'm pretty optimistic about that.

You will receive the asics and you bought the klondikes before, then you bring everything to the company and they create the miner. Then you ship the miner back to the owner or do you keep it and share the revenue?

I ship the miner back to the owner. No plans for hosting as of yet. I might hash something out if there's demand and I end up having enough time.

Ok, ill watch this thread for new infos then... I added you for now without a price and with a 16 chip and a 64 chip miner.

[ryepdx]

Catching up on responses to comments I missed earlier:

We are a free trade zone, here in North America, built and assembled should be duty free.  Call up customs, they are very helpful with this.

Ah, right. That makes sense. So... maybe Canada will be the way to go. I tried emailing him, but the address on his website didn't work. I'll see if BkkCoins can give me a working address.

Did you just give them the parts list off GitHub and they gave you a quote based on that?

No. I basically just gave them the number of SMD, through-hole, and QFN components, along with the number of BOM line items. Some of the other plants (like the one in Corvallis) have required Gerbers and a BOM, but not the one quoted here.

What will you save on turn around time waiting on Chinese PCBs?
What will you save on import duties?
What will you save on shipping inside the US?

I bet the costs of all that when you consider putting the product in hands faster negates the higher production costs. At this point the first products to ship are really the ones that are the "cheapest" because if they are hashing you are getting ROI.

Maybe. Terrahash, the other US-based distributor currently making waves, will have the last two advantages as well. I imagine turnaround will be faster with me, but how much faster is the vital question here. As difficulty goes up, the advantage to be had from moving quickly begins to weaken, until eventually cheaper with longer turnaround is a better deal. I intend to keep price charts going here so we can figure out the best deal for all involved.

GOOD LUCK! I hope it works out. I am trying to do that here in Indonesia ... still waiting on pricing for the boards here based on BOM. I will let you know how it compares here.

Thanks! Sounds good.

Oh and I think you have to EDIT the table.... both prices are for the K16? The top one is for K64 right?

Nope. I split the two phases of PCB construction into two tables. The top one is for fabricating the bare board, and the bottom one is for placing and soldering the components.

[fasmax]

Do the assemblers offer a warrantee for their work?
Say a few assemblies don't work due to a manufacturing defect will they repair them?

[ryepdx]

Just got off the phone with the Corvallis-based plant. They'll be coming up with some pricing charts and getting them to me later today or tomorrow. They're sending someone out to meet me face-to-face, too, tomorrow. They stressed how important it is to have large batch sizes, which is quite true. If you're in a group buy, and particularly if you know some of the other people in your batch are in the Pacific Northwest, then see if anyone else might be interested in a high-price/low-turnaround solution. The more people involved here, the cheaper it'll be for everyone.

I got some more quotes from the currently-cheapest plant for low numbers of PCBs. This time I figured in panelization and got some slightly lower prices for fabrication. Assembly prices are still really high, though.

Updated local per-board fabrication prices for the K16:

Qty	1-day	2-day	3-day	4-day	5-day	E Test
16	$129.09	$82.71	$69.46	$59.53	$49.59	$200.00
32	$66.39	$43.20	$36.58	$31.61	$26.64	$280.00
64	$35.35	$23.76	$20.45	$17.96	$15.48	$440.00
128	$20.83	$15.04	$13.38	$12.14	$10.90	$760.00

And updated per-board assembly prices for the K16, using leaded solder:

Qty	1 day	2 days	5 days	10 days
16	$471.44	$332.98	$297.33	$274.18
32	$450.34	$315.01	$280.92	$259.33
64	$439.80	$306.02	$272.72	$251.91
128	$434.52	$301.53	$268.61	$248.20

And now introducing K64 fabrication prices!

Qty	1-day	2-day	3-day	4-day	5-day	E Test
4	$516.35	$330.85	$277.85	$238.10	$198.35	$140.00
8	$265.57	$172.82	$146.32	$126.44	$106.57	$160.00
16	$141.41	$95.04	$81.79	$71.85	$61.91	$200.00
32	$83.34	$60.15	$53.52	$48.55	$43.59	$280.00

And K64 per-board assembly prices... :-p

Qty	1 day	2 days	5 days	10 days
16	$1,759.19	$1,224.09	$1,090.86	$1,007.64
32	$1,738.09	$1,206.12	$1,074.46	$992.79
64	$1,727.55	$1,197.13	$1,066.25	$985.37
128	$1,722.27	$1,192.64	$1,062.15	$981.66

I extended this out to 1024 boards, just for fun, and there's not much of a price break there beyond what 128 costs. With K64 batches of 32 and four days total turnaround, that would put the cost-per-board for fabrication and assembly at $1,286.27, before parts and my service fee. $358.21 for the same figures with the K16. So I guess the question now is, how much of a premium are you guys willing to pay for fast turnaround?

Anyway, I'm still hoping the folks in Corvallis can help me bring down the price. Right now I have pretty high hopes for them since they've been the most responsive and personable of the companies I've contacted so far.

I've also sent out requests for quotes to a few Washington companies, one California company, and one Arizona company. (The appeal of the last two being that they have plants in Mexico, which may provide a much lower price while still being close enough for me to do in-person pickup.)

Again, this is all tentative. Once I have quotes from everyone I've contacted so far and some finalized price charts and turnaround times put together, I'll see about getting escrow set up (hoping for JohnK or someone of similar standing) so people can start putting their bitcoin where their proverbial mouths are.

Escrow details

• The price per board will start pretty high and then drop as people ante up. Any overpayment caused by drop in price or rise in the value of bitcoin after you buy in will be returned to you upon production of your miner. Beware, though: if the value of bitcoin falls before the escrow can be released and converted to USD to pay for fabrication and assembly, you might end up owing more.
  
• If you have a special request regarding the size of the batch you want to be put in and how long you're willing to wait for such a batch, or if you want to pool your group buy chips with the chips from someone else's group buy, let me know and I'll try to work with that. The default batch grouping will be by group order batch, since I should receive those all at the same time, and processing in that way minimizes turnaround time.
  
• The escrow will be released to me when it comes time to manufacture the miners. (I don't have the funds to personally cover the cost of getting all these miners made.) Whoever holds escrow will also hold my personal information, to be released if I make off with your bitcoin.
  
• Escrow will not be available until all domestic pricing charts and turnaround times have been finalized. If demand results in enough miners being ordered and paid for via escrow to exceed the numbers in the pricing charts, I'll get additional quotes to cover the new requested quantities plus some buffer room.
  

I'll also see about getting offshore production quotes together so we can talk about possibly switching to those pricing models and plants in the event that difficulty skyrockets enough to negate any earning advantage resulting from the quick turn-around offered by domestic production. Of course, if the whole thing falls apart at that point, then I understand: my value proposition is quick turn around by using domestic companies and face-to-face hand-offs whenever possible.

For those of you holding out for the K1: I will be gathering quotes and taking orders for the K1 miner as well once the BOM and Gerber files are released.

[ryepdx]

Do the assemblers offer a warrantee for their work?
Say a few assemblies don't work due to a manufacturing defect will they repair them?

The one I'm currently quoting only offers a 30 day money back guarantee by default. I'll send them an email regarding rework and let you know what they say.

[Garr255]

I'm in the Pacific NW as well, and am interested in a large order on behalf of Cognitive.

I live a few hours from BC, so feel free to get in touch to coordinate a pickup/dropoff etc.

--Garrett

[BigZee]

Very interested. Would you offer selling the chips, and assembly service? I live in Canada in the Greater Toronto Area, let me know if there's anything I can do to help in terms of getting quotes and what not.

[BigZee]

I'll get in touch with some people to hopefully find a company suitable, and get quotes.

[ryepdx]

Very interested. Would you offer selling the chips, and assembly service? I live in Canada in the Greater Toronto Area, let me know if there's anything I can do to help in terms of getting quotes and what not.

Unfortunately I don't plan on selling any chips as I have no surplus to sell.

I'm in the Pacific NW as well, and am interested in a large order on behalf of Cognitive.

I live a few hours from BC, so feel free to get in touch to coordinate a pickup/dropoff etc.

Sounds great! PMing you now.

I'll get in touch with some people to hopefully find a company suitable, and get quotes.

Much appreciated. :-)

[BigZee]

Very interested. Would you offer selling the chips, and assembly service? I live in Canada in the Greater Toronto Area, let me know if there's anything I can do to help in terms of getting quotes and what not.

Unfortunately I don't plan on selling any chips as I have no surplus to sell.

I'm in the Pacific NW as well, and am interested in a large order on behalf of Cognitive.

I live a few hours from BC, so feel free to get in touch to coordinate a pickup/dropoff etc.

Sounds great! PMing you now.

I'll get in touch with some people to hopefully find a company suitable, and get quotes.

Much appreciated. :-)

If you have any specific Canadian manufacturers in mind, PM me!

[ryepdx]

Hey guys. I'm looking at prices for renting pick-and-place machines and reflow ovens. It's looking like a super-cheap option compared to contracting with a plant. I'm going to look into this option a little more...

[ryepdx]

Do the assemblers offer a warrantee for their work?
Say a few assemblies don't work due to a manufacturing defect will they repair them?

They say that fabricated boards with errors will be replaced with new boards and improperly assembled boards with be reworked for no additional cost.

[BigZee]

Doesn't $1.3k seem a little pricey for just assembly?

[ryepdx]

Yes, it seems extremely pricey! I could rent a small pick and place machine, solder stencil applicator, and reflow oven for a month for less than that. I'm looking at the possibility of doing just that right now...

[jspielberg]

Is terrahash on the west coast?  Their assembly cost of two btc per k64 seems cheaper than these quotes.   Not sure they do pickup, but might be worth asking.

[ryepdx]

They are on the west coast. Silicon Valley, according to their website, so... San Francisco, I guess. They are able to offer such low prices because they have their own manufacturing equipment.

[TomKeddie]

Vancouver BC hère, 32 chips am interested.

Border should be easy but don't DIY commercially.

http://blog.openbeamusa.com/tag/stuck-in-customs/