[ANN] Elacoin | Released | Fair Elastic Scrypt Mining | No Premine

[mat5x]

possible reward mod:

    //orig elacoin diff/24 but floor()'d by implicit int math makes diff 24 = 1coin, diff 25=2.
    // want smooth progression of reward - mat5x
    //orig:
    //int64 nSubsidy = ((1 + (diff / 24)) * COIN) / (1 + (nHeight / 194400));

    // Elacoin: 194k blocks in ~9 months
    //do our multiplication by elatoshi's COIN base first to avoid int() flooring
    // have to divide by reward halving interval (194400) first tho to avoid overflowing int64 too
    // still gives relatively smooth scaling for diffs > 0.1 - mat5x
    int64 nSubsidy = (diff*COIN)/4;
    nSubsidy       = nSubsidy / (194400 + nHeight);
    nSubsidy       = nSubsidy * 194400;
    return nSubsidy + nFees;
 

curr diff is 4.35, cur block ~17460 giving 1 ELC/blk. The adjustment above will continue to give about 1 coin (slightly under, due to the 194400blk/ 9-month halving interval, which is smoothed by the careful math steps above, vs implicit flooring by putting it all in one line of code).

Perhaps too much reward will inflate the coin. But itll be worth what work people put into it to mine it. 10 miners at x Mh/s diff=10 gives 2.5 coins or .25 coins/miner/block, 50 miners x1Mh/s @diff=50 gives gives 12.5 or .25 coins/miner/block. Equiv fair scaling. The 9 month halving is a powerful anti inflationary force (is it too deflationary though?)

Was trying not to mess with the coin's internals that it was launched with but keep the spirit of the original release, which I think is a great idea (or at least interesting!)

Remember: all coins are fungible, minus some minimal exchange fee reduction in your ASIC hashing power. No coin operates in a vacuum anymore, so motivations of coin usage/scaling/anything are totally up for guessing wtf will actually happen when miniBFL'ers spend $ on $NewCoinOfDayC or BTC-E trollboxers pumpdump it...

Comments?

[barwizi]

nice initiative  but, block rewards need to go up, i think 20~50 coins,people seem to love to see large numbers in their wallets  . I think this coin can regain life if this is implemented and it has a different difficulty adjustment algo. If you know how to, reset the difficulty to attract miners, then with the new algos in place it will be worthwhile to mine, at that point even if miners jump ship, the algo will adjust to the change, say in 20 blocks? This essentially avoids the CNC FTC disease while satisfying both short and long haul miners. Also implementing ideas like pre-made services will raise the value of the coin rapidly and it will enjoy more wide spread acceptance.

[mat5x]

nice initiative  but, block rewards need to go up, i think 20~50 coins,people seem to love to see large numbers in their wallets  . I think this coin can regain life if this is implemented and it has a different difficulty adjustment algo. If you know how to, reset the difficulty to attract miners, then with the new algos in place it will be worthwhile to mine, at that point even if miners jump ship, the algo will adjust to the change, say in 20 blocks? This essentially avoids the CNC FTC disease while satisfying both short and long haul miners. Also implementing ideas like pre-made services will raise the value of the coin rapidly and it will enjoy more wide spread acceptance.

the actual # of coins is arbitrary, the market will value it higher. we COULD use an alt coin that isnt traded at 0.0000008 btc, dont you think? (exchanges have had to order extra decimal places from suppliers overseas to meet the demands!) (hell, I think BTC-E's limit to 5 decimals is hurting some coins trading markets lol.)

yes, the diff adjustment algo is as per above => reward = diff/4, basically.

coins are 'worth' mining by their value on the market. it will reestablish its value based on its merits. we could increase the reward to attract miners, i suppose, but its all
arbitrary - diff/4, or just diff for reward? (the latter might be better to attract miners, actually, because right now the 2 hr blocktimes are certainly not worth the trading value). not sure how
to get the market to trade it at a higher value. ithink its biggest devaluation right now is that it looks dead not that its not a good idea.

if you set diff retarg too short, you get TRC issues. Check it out, it has a sliding window retarg now set to avg last 24 hrs, but STILL fluxes all over the place in difficulty in a day (check coinchoose.com). So that's a danger too.

PreMade services? We have an exchange, we have a pool and a fountain. No ElaDice or the like yet, however...

The attraction is that as diff increases so does reward, so basically difficulty is moot for the coin - you put in hashing power X, you get X coins/time constantly (modulo the 9 months halving). Not sure if 9 months is too quick... but changing that would be a major change too.

[barwizi]

I get what you are saying, we aren't looking for band-aids, we want super max glue. The trade offs are clumsy and unsure since we can't predict the future, but what i am saying is based on two polls i made just to see what really drives people to pick particular coins. I understand the laws of supply and demand, scarcity pushes up the price, but at the current pace we would be attempting to challenge something like BTB with a 1:2 ratio with bitcoin, i find this unrealistic considering what this coin has gone through. I would like this coin to be a mid-range coin. Target value being .01~.008 stable. This can only be acheived by hyping the revamp and satisfying miners, in a market economy, we are like a factory, selling at wholesale prices , and as the word wholesale suggests, quantity is an issue, if you look on cryptsy and compare volumes you can see clearly that people dont understand the current reward system this coin uses, they want to buy a hundred thousand, yet if i am correct, there are only ~20000 out there.
In order to breathe life into this project we need to make people aware that there is activity here and that the results of the activity is aimed at improvements that will engage their desires. Soon a large crowd would be watching this debate and eagerly awaiting to see what we come up with. If  truth be told, i would say let's scrap this coin and begin a new fork and employ some real innovative ideas, i know you said you did not really mess with the internals, but the more i look at the requirements to revive this coin, it becomes darker and darker. In the end we could come up with the greatest ideas known to cryptos but they would all fall to dust or be abused before they make a difference, unless we get interest in this project to grow exponentially.

Your thoughts mat5x?

[phorensic]

How much effort do you guys want to pump into a coin that has been trading at a profit 94% lower than Bitcoin the last couple days?  I'm sorry, but this is the first of the 127 new altcoins that I gambled on and lost.  If you are a talented programmer/developer I urge you to focus your time on more important projects.

[barwizi]

true it is for all intent a dead coin, but the thing is, it has support structures in place already, which gives it a higher probabilty of success than the coin that comes out today. i think that rather than minting 5 new coins a day, let's try fixing our version 0.01 then if we reach the best we can do, we get a new coin where we place all the cool new ideas that can't be worked into the current one. I believe that is how a development cycle works.

[mat5x]

People are only thrilled with a new coin with zero background because they think they can get in early on the easy diff mining and score a mint. In fact, it's counterintuitive to think they want in on coins with initial high difficulty, because there's no benefit, but everyone likes sometihng new. Not sure why, because there's no indication that a coins early life is indicative of its later life -
see the value of BTC in 2009 for a comparison.

ELC has most of the necessary infrastructure, including a core team of 'adopters' who have taken up retaining life in the coin, running pools, getting it onto an exchange, wiki, etc.

I dont see the benefit of any other new coin other than as a pump and dump (WDC? CNC?)

I still think the parity reward system is an interesting feature to investigate - all other coins are inherently deflationary due to their static issuance rate over time despite more effort/power being put into them./ Useful at the start to move coins from 0.0000001$USD per, but ridiculous as a practicality (see BTC, ever try to price out real world services/goods with a BTC? "1BTC today, 0.8 or 1.3 tomorrow, please wait to find out." (yes its been stable for 2 weeks, but it was stable at 12-15 for months before the explosion).

[barwizi]

i think a real dev and support team is the first thing on the list. anyone willing?

[mat5x]

i think a real dev and support team is the first thing on the list. anyone willing?

sure. the linux d and qt compiles are dead simple. solomining is dead simple. bfg and cgminer are dead simple.

im not a windows guy, but im sure there out there, we have some coins for a bounty as well.

we're working on it.

If anyone has a comment please theorize why an entirely NEW coin with no history is better than an established coin with an established block chain that does NOT have a pumpdump superlow diff. other than the early wins for rigfarmers (which I think most of the community does NOT own, and does NOT like to see win an unfair exponential share of early coins due to orphan chains).

[Hydroponica]

I'm pretty sure, this coin is done

[mat5x]

I'm pretty sure, this coin is done

like BBQ and IXcoin. and devcoin.

im pretty sure you didnt mine any of it is what you are saying.

[barwizi]

hehehe, people are silently mining and then goin to sell on cryptsy

[perhan007]

hehehe, people are silently mining and then goin to sell on cryptsy

How many Blocks left untill the next difficulty adjustment?

[barwizi]

i dont know, i've been waiting too. any idea on GLD too?

[nonameo]

difficulty adjustment is at 19440. Unfortunately, unless the network gets more hashing power, you'll be a long time waiting. With adequate hashing power, it'd only take a day or two.

>_> I hate to pitch the coin, but at the current difficulty, the coin should be worth about 0.0086 btc give or take if it were just as profitable to mine as litecoin. proof:

elapoolmath is mining at a rate of 1,829 kh/s and getting 8.5 elc/day. that's about 215.02 khash/sec per elacoin. I go to dustcoin(http://dustcoin.com/mining) and plug in 215.02 kh/s for scrypt. Litecoin puts out a value of about 0.0086 btc/day. IOW, if elacoin were just as profitable as LTC to mine, 1 elacoin would be worth about 0.0086 BTC.


 However, the network is sluggish right now and elacoin isn't as profitable to mine as bitcoin. So, what the network really needs is people mining who like the coin for what it is(every bit counts, I'm mining 3 kh/s ) or for the value of the coin to go up so people will mine of their own volition. If you believe that elacoin is a worthwhile venture and will recover/become viable, prices like 0.0011 btc/elc are pretty good. It's all risk/reward. It could just as easily never take off again.

One more thing I'd like to point out: elacoin has only ever put out 1 coin per block so far. That means there are only 17,695 coins in the network. The ceiling is much higher than that(lol I don't even know what the ceiling is, or if there is one), but the coin was designed to keep the coin value more stable(not going from$10 to $100 in a matter of a few months), although I'm not really sure how well it will work. I do think it would work better in the long run, though it hasn't done so hot in the short term. I think some of this can be associated to the rocky launch though. The point is(that I deviated from, lol), it wouldn't take a ton of activity at the current prices to make the coin profitable to mine again.

disclosure: I have 41.4444 elc

[BrewCrewFan]

Ehhh big hash miners are like locusts....they go and ruin every coin they touch. Very good recent examples are RYC and just very recently WDC.... the dif finally settles... the people who stuck with it and the low hash all breath a sign of relief seeing the difficulty finally fall in line with those that stuck it out... only to get mass hash raped again and in a matter of minutes/few hours the difficulty rises again.... and then the big hashers leave... leaving the coin again at a high difficulty, no hash, no return.

[perhan007]

Ehhh big hash miners are like locusts....they go and ruin every coin they touch. Very good recent examples are RYC and just very recently WDC.... the dif finally settles... the people who stuck with it and the low hash all breath a sign of relief seeing the difficulty finally fall in line with those that stuck it out... only to get mass hash raped again and in a matter of minutes/few hours the difficulty rises again.... and then the big hashers leave... leaving the coin again at a high difficulty, no hash, no return.

yeah and the worst is: they dump all their coins immediatelly and destroy the value of the coin at the same time... The poor ones are these guys who continued mining the coin even it wasn't the most profitable one and bring the coin to the adjustment...

Unfortunately I don't see a way to change it...

I see the same going on with nibble right now... Its the most profitable coin now... At least I hold 10% of all coins ever made because I stood with it the whole time from the beginning.

[BrewCrewFan]

Ehhh big hash miners are like locusts....they go and ruin every coin they touch. Very good recent examples are RYC and just very recently WDC.... the dif finally settles... the people who stuck with it and the low hash all breath a sign of relief seeing the difficulty finally fall in line with those that stuck it out... only to get mass hash raped again and in a matter of minutes/few hours the difficulty rises again.... and then the big hashers leave... leaving the coin again at a high difficulty, no hash, no return.

yeah and the worst is: they dump all their coins immediatelly and destroy the value of the coin at the same time... The poor ones are these guys who continued mining the coin even it wasn't the most profitable one and bring the coin to the adjustment...

Unfortunately I don't see a way to change it...

I see the same going on with nibble right now... Its the most profitable coin now... At least I hold 10% of all coins ever made because I stood with it the whole time from the beginning.

I think the only real way is to change the re-target time. Then have a sweet spot for dif= coins... what I mean is the amount of coins mined is better when the difficulty  is within a certain difficulty range. Low difficulty = lower amount of coins high difficulty = lower amount of coins. In the middle the sweet spot bigger rewards. This would in my eyes make it more work so to say for the big hashers to jump coin to coin because if they stick on the coin too long it screws them over due to even less of a reward for driving up the difficulty.

[nonameo]

I think the only real way is to change the re-target time.

Unfortunately this seems to be the only answer, but it has its own disadvantages. see: terracoin :-/

as long as your coin has enough hash power to maintain the proper block speed, you're good. The market will take care of the rest.

Well, one thing I had thought of that could help with that problem is to "back reward"... so, if you win blocks when the difficulty is low and it goes up, you get a cut of the reward at the new higher difficulty.

ex: diff=1 reward  3 coins - all goes to current miners

     diff=2 reward  6 coins - 2 go to the diff=1 block winners(divided amongst them in some equitable and non-exploitable way) and 4 go to the new  high diff miners


or something like that.

The biggest issue I can think of with that is how to handle pools. It works OK if everyone solo mines, and in fact it might could be tweaked to encourage solo mining when diff is low.

[BrewCrewFan]

I think the only real way is to change the re-target time.

Unfortunately this seems to be the only answer, but it has its own disadvantages. see: terracoin :-/

as long as your coin has enough hash power to maintain the proper block speed, you're good. The market will take care of the rest.

Well, one thing I had thought of that could help with that problem is to "back reward"... so, if you win blocks when the difficulty is low and it goes up, you get a cut of the reward at the new higher difficulty.

ex: diff=1 reward  3 coins - all goes to current miners

     diff=2 reward  6 coins - 2 go to the diff=1 block winners(divided amongst them in some equitable and non-exploitable way) and 4 go to the new  high diff miners


or something like that.

The biggest issue I can think of with that is how to handle pools. It works OK if everyone solo mines, and in fact it might could be tweaked to encourage solo mining when diff is low.

I think the only real way is to change the re-target time.

Unfortunately this seems to be the only answer, but it has its own disadvantages. see: terracoin :-/

as long as your coin has enough hash power to maintain the proper block speed, you're good. The market will take care of the rest.

Well, one thing I had thought of that could help with that problem is to "back reward"... so, if you win blocks when the difficulty is low and it goes up, you get a cut of the reward at the new higher difficulty.

ex: diff=1 reward  3 coins - all goes to current miners

     diff=2 reward  6 coins - 2 go to the diff=1 block winners(divided amongst them in some equitable and non-exploitable way) and 4 go to the new  high diff miners


or something like that.

The biggest issue I can think of with that is how to handle pools. It works OK if everyone solo mines, and in fact it might could be tweaked to encourage solo mining when diff is low.

With terracoin... is that not ummm SHA or whatever that is? The same as Bitcoin? Makes me wonder how well that would work in scrypt. I have to admit I need to read up on terracoin though that was way before my time .