MtGox account in the USA has been seized by the DHS?

[Kluge]

I'm really shock bitcoin price hasn't crashed with this news. $119 to $114 isn't really a crash.

I wonder if we will see a slow decline over the next few days as this gets reported in the news.

This could be very bad for bitcoin if it is a sign that the US govt is cracking down. If they manage to shut down the exchanges or prevent anyone from sending US dollars to them, if could effectively kill bitcoin. And no, I don't think bitcoin can survive as a currency that exists everywhere but the US. This is scary and I'm surprised the market has not reflected this yet.

Hopefully this was because of some misuse of MtGox's dwolla account when it comes to AML regulations and not a sign of things to come.

There aren't many people using Bitcoins who aren't nerds, and we know there are many alternatives to Gox and Dwolla. I used Dwolla because it's cheap, but the Gox % fee actually makes it slower and more expensive than a wire to BFX in many cases. If they start going into exchanges' bank accounts, we go back to p2p trades, but until we know what DHS is charging, there's not reason to assume they'll go after other exchanges just because Bitcoin.

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[wsoei]

"REPORT: Department Of Homeland Security Prevents Payment Provider From Transferring Money To Bitcoin Exchange"
http://www.businessinsider.com/dwolla-mt-gox-2013-5

[w8ks6]

But you need to get your fiat converted to bitcoin to begin with.  Unless you want Bitcoin to only be for the miners or only for people who sell things to people who have bitcoin.   In that case it is massive FAIL for bitcoin for anything but a very small niche market.   Of course that is what is inevitable because the big Banks will make this happen but it's definitely not a good thing.

That's the point: if the banks will make this happen anyway, no need to continue deluding ourselves.

I think it will not be a massive fail, but the exchange rate will be set against real assets, as it was in the 10k-pizza days, or whatever being sold on Bitmit and such.

More than half the Bitcoins are already out there. So, it's not only the miners that can spend them. If you have goods or services that I want, I'll pay for them with Bitcoin, even though I am not a miner. So, it might just take more time for bitcoins to spread around, but I think it won't be the massive fail you predict.

[leopard2]

What the heck is Dwolla? For retards that cannot fill in a wire transfer form?

In theory BTC could work without any fiat conversion at all, all that would be required is a published conversion rate, which merchants all over the world could use, to convert their fiat prices into BTC and accept it.

Somewhere in between is BTC marketplaces that just bring buyers and sellers together; then what? Will the DHS seize every bank account on the planet? Wire transfers are peer-to-peer too.

Go, retards, panic sell. 

[Klestin]

What the heck is Dwolla? For retards that cannot fill in a wire transfer form?

Retards are those who don't want to pay expensive wire transfer fees?

[Raoul Duke]

What the heck is Dwolla? For retards that cannot fill in a wire transfer form?

Retards are those who don't want to pay expensive wire transfer fees?

Retards are the ones who continue using a company after said company declared themselves to be against everything BTC represents. That was what, 1 and a half year ago already?
donkeys will be donkeys, I guess...

[leopard2]

What the heck is Dwolla? For retards that cannot fill in a wire transfer form?

Retards are those who don't want to pay expensive wire transfer fees?

Just find a bank that is cheaper, and transfer larger amounts - the fee is normally the same for $10 or $500.

BTC is like a foreign currency; and you would not buy $10 worth of Euros or whatever from a bank, would you?

[LightRider]

Hopefully wikileaks will do its thing and let us all know what really happened very soon.

[papaminer]

MtGox is outside the jurisdiction of the US government, they can't seize their accounts or anything of theirs at all.  Maybe the email is badly worded

TELL THAT TO MEGAUPLOADS ATTORNEY

[SamS]

Well, the Winklevii have plenty more where that came from...

[joesmoe2012]

MtGox is outside the jurisdiction of the US government, they can't seize their accounts or anything of theirs at all.  Maybe the email is badly worded

TELL THAT TO MEGAUPLOADS ATTORNEY

At it said they were freezing their US accounts. If they have account in the US, they surely can be frozen.

[marcus_of_augustus]

If only there were a way to move value around without the threat of it getting seized by a third party.  Somebody should invent something.

This ^^ 

[leopard2]

Look I don't know what to say  

I have had coworkers going for Mtgox because "they are the largest"  

When I saw their statement about putting customers through AML hell, when they access their website via a proxy, that is all I needed to know.

Then to make things worse, people use extra intermediaries, for a PEER TO PEER bitcoin!?! Dwolla, Paypal, and whatnot?

If only 10% of Mtgox customers would trade on localbitcoins, this would not have happened. At the moment Gox is 80% and spreads on localbitcoins are awful, but that can change.

Sure exchanges are comfortable but they are completely unnecessary; all that is required is real people with bank accounts and BTC wallets.

[marcus_of_augustus]

I'm really shock bitcoin price hasn't crashed with this news. $119 to $114 isn't really a crash.

I wonder if we will see a slow decline over the next few days as this gets reported in the news.

No think this through a little ... if people can't get their US Dollars out of Mt. Gox via Dwolla what can they do??

Well they can buy BTC and move them out of Gox .... net result BTC demand, USD supply ....

[nikkisnowe]

“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi ~

I guess we have now moved to phase 3.

[mobile4ever]

Well to be fair the bank system doesn't exactly like Dwolla either, so it's double whammy.

They use a credit union, I believe, something owned by the people, not a banker. Its like a Co-op.

[leopard2]

I'm really shock bitcoin price hasn't crashed with this news. $119 to $114 isn't really a crash.

I wonder if we will see a slow decline over the next few days as this gets reported in the news.

No think this through a little ... if people can't get their US Dollars out of Mt. Gox via Dwolla what can they do??

Well they can buy BTC and move them out of Gox .... net result BTC demand, USD supply ....

Excellent. Nothing would be better for long term BTC future than an outage of Mtgox. After awhile people would find out, hey, it works without them...

[TsuyokuNaritai]

Here's Mt Gox's statement from a few minutes ago. The wall observer thread is too distracted by a girlie picture right now to comment so I'll get your opinion instead.

Statement Regarding Dwolla:

Like many who have contacted us, MtGox has read on the Internet that the United States Department of Homeland Security had a court order and/or warrant issued from the United States District Court in Maryland which it served upon the Dwolla mobile payment service with respect to accounts used for trading with MtGox. We take this information seriously. However, as of this time we have not been provided with a copy of the court order and/or warrant, and do not know its scope and/or the reasons for its issuance. MtGox is investigating and will provide further reports when additional information becomes known.

https://www.facebook.com/MtGox/posts/468895216528224

[Raoul Duke]

What the heck is Dwolla? For retards that cannot fill in a wire transfer form?

Retards are those who don't want to pay expensive wire transfer fees?

Retards are the ones who continue using a company after said company declared themselves to be against everything BTC represents. That was what, 1 and a half year ago already?
donkeys will be donkeys, I guess...

For once I agree with you!

Wassup Psy?


~BCX~

I talk about donkeys and here you are! WB BTCX

[jubalix]

2011 thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=13547.0

Lets hope that Gox has been playing by the rules in all jurisdictions. It would really suck if it turns out that they haven't.

it doesn't work this way, they always have rules and ways of interpreting them to find you  did not comply