Department of Homeland Security

[Exoskeleton]

You can't fight the US gov, you just have to stay out of their way.

Not all fighting is obligated to be with a fist or a gun

So true brother. Its called politics people. Vote.

The US gov has been wrong about almost every major issue untill forced to change by the people. Slavery, womens right to vote, civil rights (racism and jim crow laws), civil rights (drug laws), civil rights (basic privacy). Every war since 1945...

We have to speak up sometime. We have to draw a line in the sand. I beleive in the US gov more than anybody I know. Its a great system and we should recognize that everyday. By the people, for the people. By the people, for the people. But it could be better. If the word privacy doesn't stand for something today, it will fall for anything tomorrow.

"Divided we stand. United we fall."

[justusranvier]

So true brother. Its called politics people. Vote.

The US gov has been wrong about almost every major issue untill forced to change by the people. Slavery, womens right to vote, civil rights (racism and jim crow laws), civil rights (drug laws), civil rights (basic privacy). Every war since 1945...

We have to speak up sometime. We have to draw a line in the sand. I beleive in the US gov more than anybody I know. Its a great system and we should recognize that everyday. By the people, for the people. By the people, for the people. But it could be better. If the word privacy doesn't stand for something today, it will fall for anything tomorrow.

"Divided we stand. United we fall."

I admit to being stumped.

[Chaoskampf]

So true brother. Its called politics people. Vote.

The US gov has been wrong about almost every major issue untill forced to change by the people. Slavery, womens right to vote, civil rights (racism and jim crow laws), civil rights (drug laws), civil rights (basic privacy). Every war since 1945...

We have to speak up sometime. We have to draw a line in the sand. I beleive in the US gov more than anybody I know. Its a great system and we should recognize that everyday. By the people, for the people. By the people, for the people. But it could be better. If the word privacy doesn't stand for something today, it will fall for anything tomorrow.

"Divided we stand. United we fall."

I admit to being stumped.

The politics we need isn't going to be within this system. None of those "changes" you refer to actually changed very much. As a previous post noted, "for every action there is a reaction". We don't have black people picking cotton anymore, but we have many new and pernicious forms of slavery (mortgages, Fiat currency, non-stop pre-emptive war, the healthcare mafia). Women can vote now, but can we honestly say that either women or men can cast ballots for anyone truly worth voting for in our ridiculous two party "democracy"? I don't think the rest of your examples really need fleshing out.

[cheesylard]

     
      While the recent action by the DHS concerning Dwolla's Mt. Gox transactions will not be a serious blow to Bitcoin, a precedent is being carried forth which could lead to much more extreme measures. The fact that the DHS is concerned about Bitcoin should suggest how powerful our beloved crypto-currency is, and how real a threat it must pose to the ruling class.
      This is not a time for merely accepting government action as it is handed out. We can not let these shameless impingements on our basic rights be applied without resistance. Why do they expect us to sit behind our computer screens and merely act in reactionary clicks and types as our freedoms are legislated away from us? Because that's been the precedent that we have set.
      What are we going to do if and when it comes down to an internationally orchestrated assault on Bitcoin? What options do the people have against the power elite? I'm curious to hear what the community thinks.

The rest of the world is gonna adopt it and then the U.S. Dollar will collapse and then we will have Anarchy.

Can you orgasm now? Clean yourself up on the way out.

[Chaoskampf]

     
      While the recent action by the DHS concerning Dwolla's Mt. Gox transactions will not be a serious blow to Bitcoin, a precedent is being carried forth which could lead to much more extreme measures. The fact that the DHS is concerned about Bitcoin should suggest how powerful our beloved crypto-currency is, and how real a threat it must pose to the ruling class.
      This is not a time for merely accepting government action as it is handed out. We can not let these shameless impingements on our basic rights be applied without resistance. Why do they expect us to sit behind our computer screens and merely act in reactionary clicks and types as our freedoms are legislated away from us? Because that's been the precedent that we have set.
      What are we going to do if and when it comes down to an internationally orchestrated assault on Bitcoin? What options do the people have against the power elite? I'm curious to hear what the community thinks.

The rest of the world is gonna adopt it and then the U.S. Dollar will collapse and then we will have Anarchy.

Can you orgasm now? Clean yourself up on the way out.

The rest of the world is also a part of the international central banking system. It's not just the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_for_International_Settlements

[Kluge]

I don't see the problem.

Hopefully, this will be the final push to get DPR to start a hidden BTC:mLClorox exchange. DPR gets a pipe going from the factory to his storage silos and we place orders at the factory. They then deposit our orders into the Clorox silos. DPR can get really fancy and have metal disc separators in the silos so we know exactly whose Clorox is whose.

On a slightly more serious note... Can't kill BTC before Tor, and a crackdown will bring a whole lot of new blood over to Tor. I think Tor/I2P-related charities have received, what - 30kBTC or something?

[Exoskeleton]

I am being sincere. The US gov is not evil, just often misguided. We could/should all be doing more to make life fair for everyone on Earth. Kim Stanley Robinson has a good talk on youtube where he explains it better.


Kim Stanley Robinson: Valuing the Earth and Future Generations: Imagining Post-Capatilism

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csvroehk7Ww

[joesmoe2012]

I don't see the problem.

Hopefully, this will be the final push to get DPR to start a hidden BTC:mLClorox exchange. Can't kill BTC before Tor, and a crackdown will bring a whole lot of new blood over to Tor. I think Tor/I2P-related charities have received, what - 30kBTC or something?

Wow, mtgox running over tor...as if it wasn't slow enough in the clearwebs.

The problem isn't the website, its that mtgox must have bank accounts.

[jubalix]

for every action there is a reaction.

i wonder what role the Chinese will play in this.  there have been hints that they might actually support the Bitcoin concept.  is DHS sending a message?

if so, i'm sure a response will be forthcoming in some form or manner.

The Cold Bitcoin War. More hashrate!

Couldn't the US government hypothetically run existing supercomputers to mine all the remaining Bitcoins and just destroy it that way? For the amount of money it takes to file all the legal paperwork and run the DHS for a week, they could contract an ASIC to be built which could mine the remaining Bitcoins in a very short period of time. Or am I wrong about this?

They at this point couldn't even come close, especially with asics being produced in china as we speak

[Exoskeleton]

So true brother. Its called politics people. Vote.

The US gov has been wrong about almost every major issue untill forced to change by the people. Slavery, womens right to vote, civil rights (racism and jim crow laws), civil rights (drug laws), civil rights (basic privacy). Every war since 1945...

We have to speak up sometime. We have to draw a line in the sand. I beleive in the US gov more than anybody I know. Its a great system and we should recognize that everyday. By the people, for the people. By the people, for the people. But it could be better. If the word privacy doesn't stand for something today, it will fall for anything tomorrow.

"Divided we stand. United we fall."

I admit to being stumped.

The politics we need isn't going to be within this system. None of those "changes" you refer to actually changed very much. As a previous post noted, "for every action there is a reaction". We don't have black people picking cotton anymore, but we have many new and pernicious forms of slavery (mortgages, Fiat currency, non-stop pre-emptive war, the healthcare mafia). Women can vote now, but can we honestly say that either women or men can cast ballots for anyone truly worth voting for in our ridiculous two party "democracy"? I don't think the rest of your examples really need fleshing out.

While slaves being freed, women being able to vote, the end of jim crow laws/open racisim, and other such events may not have made an impact on your life at the time, they were huge events. These changes in law did a lot of good for a lot of people. Are you seriously questioning this fact?

The only reason why politics are so "impossible" today and "no one is worth voting for" is because people like you give up. You just wave the white flag. Are you french?

If you want to complain about the US gov go right ahead. But if you want to do something its called politics. You have to change the system from within. Its not easy. You have to work with people who you don't like or agree with, and compromise. It won't change everything, and you won't get your whole wishlist. Nobody does. But whats your alternative? Show up at the white house with a gun and start blastin. Sit at home and complain on a forum. Good luck changing the world by yourself...

[Chaoskampf]

So true brother. Its called politics people. Vote.

The US gov has been wrong about almost every major issue untill forced to change by the people. Slavery, womens right to vote, civil rights (racism and jim crow laws), civil rights (drug laws), civil rights (basic privacy). Every war since 1945...

We have to speak up sometime. We have to draw a line in the sand. I beleive in the US gov more than anybody I know. Its a great system and we should recognize that everyday. By the people, for the people. By the people, for the people. But it could be better. If the word privacy doesn't stand for something today, it will fall for anything tomorrow.

"Divided we stand. United we fall."

I admit to being stumped.

The politics we need isn't going to be within this system. None of those "changes" you refer to actually changed very much. As a previous post noted, "for every action there is a reaction". We don't have black people picking cotton anymore, but we have many new and pernicious forms of slavery (mortgages, Fiat currency, non-stop pre-emptive war, the healthcare mafia). Women can vote now, but can we honestly say that either women or men can cast ballots for anyone truly worth voting for in our ridiculous two party "democracy"? I don't think the rest of your examples really need fleshing out.

While slaves being freed, women being able to vote, the end of jim crow laws/open racisim, and other such events may not have made an impact on your life at the time, they were huge events. These changes in law did a lot of good for a lot of people. Are you seriously questioning this fact?

The only reason why politics are so "impossible" today and "no one is worth voting for" is because people like you give up. You just wave the white flag. Are you french?

If you want to complain about the US gov go right ahead. But if you want to do something its called politics. You have to change the system from within. Its not easy. You have to work with people who you don't like or agree with, and compromise. It won't change everything, and you won't get your whole wishlist. Nobody does. But whats your alternative? Show up at the white house with a gun and start blastin. Sit at home and complain on a forum. Good luck changing the world by yourself...

My ultimate point is that while we can point to the government making changes and say that these are substantive, with every action there is an UNequal and opposite reaction. If you think that the ruling class (the ones who the government works for) will simply sacrifice their power because of public opinion, then you need to read some more serious history books. Because we can't force black people to be our slaves anymore, we have to use Chinese and Indian children, who will attach plastic parts together until their lungs shrivel up from chemical fumes. If you go down the list of examples, for every 1 change in public policy there are an accompanying 100 different externalities which aren't mentioned, and which skew the structures of power in favor of those who have always had them and will continue to keep them as long as people subscribe to being governed. That's the whole point of making the changes in the first place. You need to placate the masses and make them think this is their government which they have influence over, otherwise participation in this system will suffer.

[BTC Books]

So true brother. Its called politics people. Vote.

The US gov has been wrong about almost every major issue untill forced to change by the people. Slavery, womens right to vote, civil rights (racism and jim crow laws), civil rights (drug laws), civil rights (basic privacy). Every war since 1945...

We have to speak up sometime. We have to draw a line in the sand. I beleive in the US gov more than anybody I know. Its a great system and we should recognize that everyday. By the people, for the people. By the people, for the people. But it could be better. If the word privacy doesn't stand for something today, it will fall for anything tomorrow.

"Divided we stand. United we fall."

I admit to being stumped.

I'm going with parody: "Divided we stand. United we fall."  Ummm...

[Exoskeleton]

So true brother. Its called politics people. Vote.

The US gov has been wrong about almost every major issue untill forced to change by the people. Slavery, womens right to vote, civil rights (racism and jim crow laws), civil rights (drug laws), civil rights (basic privacy). Every war since 1945...

We have to speak up sometime. We have to draw a line in the sand. I beleive in the US gov more than anybody I know. Its a great system and we should recognize that everyday. By the people, for the people. By the people, for the people. But it could be better. If the word privacy doesn't stand for something today, it will fall for anything tomorrow.

"Divided we stand. United we fall."

I admit to being stumped.

The politics we need isn't going to be within this system. None of those "changes" you refer to actually changed very much. As a previous post noted, "for every action there is a reaction". We don't have black people picking cotton anymore, but we have many new and pernicious forms of slavery (mortgages, Fiat currency, non-stop pre-emptive war, the healthcare mafia). Women can vote now, but can we honestly say that either women or men can cast ballots for anyone truly worth voting for in our ridiculous two party "democracy"? I don't think the rest of your examples really need fleshing out.

While slaves being freed, women being able to vote, the end of jim crow laws/open racisim, and other such events may not have made an impact on your life at the time, they were huge events. These changes in law did a lot of good for a lot of people. Are you seriously questioning this fact?

The only reason why politics are so "impossible" today and "no one is worth voting for" is because people like you give up. You just wave the white flag. Are you french?

If you want to complain about the US gov go right ahead. But if you want to do something its called politics. You have to change the system from within. Its not easy. You have to work with people who you don't like or agree with, and compromise. It won't change everything, and you won't get your whole wishlist. Nobody does. But whats your alternative? Show up at the white house with a gun and start blastin. Sit at home and complain on a forum. Good luck changing the world by yourself...

My ultimate point is that while we can point to the government making changes and say that these are substantive, with every action there is an UNequal and opposite reaction. If you think that the ruling class (the ones who the government works for) will simply sacrifice their power because of public opinion, then you need to read some more serious history books. Because we can't force black people to be our slaves anymore, we have to use Chinese and Indian children, who will attach plastic parts together until their lungs shrivel up from chemical fumes. If you go down the list of examples, for every 1 change in public policy there are an accompanying 100 different externalities which aren't mentioned, and which skew the structures of power in favor of those who have always had them and will continue to keep them as long as people subscribe to being governed. That's the whole point of making the changes in the first place. You need to placate the masses and make them think this is their government which they have influence over, otherwise participation in this system will suffer.

Well I have to say for a large part I agree. I hate the two party system with a passion and almost everything about politics in the US. I would also have to agree that the people with money will keep as much power as they can, and occasionally throw a bone to keep us fighting over scraps. This is obvious.

My problem with your attitude is not with these facts. Its with your solution. You offer none. What exactally do you suggest I do with my time? If I want to change the way the world works, what other than being politically active would you offer as a form of action?

Its one thing to complain and tear others thoughts down. Its quite another to build somethig greater. Unless you can do the latter don't do the former.

[justusranvier]

My problem with your attitude is not with these facts. Its with your solution. You offer none. What exactally do you suggest I do with my time? If I want to change the way the world works, what other than being politically active would you offer as a form of action?

You might as well ask which is the correct type of rain dance needed to change the climate.

Your sequence of errors started here:

The US gov is not evil

The US government is evil by definition because it is a government and the act of governing is evil.

There is no way to improve or correct evil. There is no way to use evil in order to achieve good. The only solution that works is to stop doing evil.

If you want to find something productive to do with your time, start looking around at the actual sources of oppression in your daily life. They are much closer to than the Washington DC mafia, and are something you can actually do something about.

[Exoskeleton]

If you don't beleive in having a system of government then I can not continue this debate with you or anyone who holds this extreme viewpoint. Its not worth my time

Edit: I gave the trolls way too much food on this thread. Bitcointalk is no place to argue about anarchy for days.

[datz]

I know exactly who wrote that affidavit - that scoundrel. It's nothing personal, it's just business. If you want cash to bitcoin or bank account transfer to bitcoin you go through American companies. Japan is a conquered nation. Japan is stepping on America's toes. Japan must yield Bitcoin. Mutually assured destruction has denied us world wars - now we fight on the economic battlegrounds.

[justusranvier]

Anarchy would be fun untill I put a bullet in your head because your wife is not sucking me off...

That is, of course, exactly why governments must not exist. The damage people like yourself can do with a single bullet is bad enough, but what you can do when given access to armies and taxation is beyond horrifying.

[drrussellshane]

Anarchy would be fun untill I put a bullet in your head because your wife is not sucking me off...

That is, of course, exactly why governments must not exist. The damage as people like yourself can do with a single bullet is bad enough, but what you can do when given access to armies and taxation is beyond horrifying.

This.

[Exoskeleton]

This is what I get for feeding trolls. I guess I forgot how these forums can work. I was trying to make a sarcastic point of the realitys of anarchy, not give a direct example of what I would do to you. I don't support large armys, war or casual violence.

If you think we can live without some form of government or taxes you are a naive fool. A child. I also once thought total anarchy was a good idea, when I was 13. Then I grew up.

There is no minimum age for posting on the internet so its times like this that I wonder how old some of you really are. Your promotion of anarchy embodies the mentality of a teenage boy. Have fun with your anarchist friends at the kids table. Im going back to sit with the adults.

[Jnitngle]

All I would say is if you have any bitcoins or cash at MtGox; get it out now!  You can't fight the US gov, you just have to stay out of their way.

Seriously! A little country the size of New Mexico kicked the shit out of the USA for decades making USA troops withdraw in shame because a small group of highly motivated radicals back home like the people on this forum refused to bend over and take it up the ass.

I'm talking about Vietnam for those that can't figure it out.

Vietnam didn't kick the shit out of me or anyone I know. Nor did we withdraw in shame. We outfought them in every major battle and most small ones. Americans did not want to continue the fight and thus lost the will to continue supporting the South Vietnamese Government. We withheld supplies and aid And they fell to the North.  Those are the facts. I have friends who died kicking the shit out of them. Words have meaning. Please be careful you don't dishonor the memory of those who fell in battle. I fought there and so did many others in this forum. While Vietnam fell those who died fought for freedom, human dignity and for their loved ones back home. These ideas were worth dying for then and there are Americans and others dying thruout the world for those same ideals now.