Is Monero, Dash and all anon coins fucked?

[btcdee]

Correct, but in Zcash the total supply is not auditable, and "Zooko" and "Green" have decreed that they will endorse the creation of backdoors in Zerocash to "trace criminals".

Wasn't the backdoor already added? Or that blackmarket taken down by FBI right after they added ZEC was a coincidence? 

Hmmm... a traceable anon coin by design. Perhaps this is just a master plan preventing anon coins from being "fucked". Zooko is a genious!!!

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[25hashcoin]

https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@anonymint/is-monero-s-or-all-anonymity-broken

Anonymint, aka iamnotback has released this article on steemit. Im reading it right now myself but I want to share it here and hopefully get some coding wizards to review it.

Apparently it has caused him to be censored in the Monero reddit when he linked it, so this shows this must be pretty good.

The only anonymous cryptocurrencies are those that deploy Zero Knowledge Proofs. Zcash, ZCoin and Bitcoin (will have zkSnarks next year). Monero uses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_through_obscurity and is in no way anonymous.

Correct, but in Zcash the total supply is not auditable, and "Zooko" and "Green" have decreed that they will endorse the creation of backdoors in Zerocash to "trace criminals". But who decides who is a criminal in a supposedly anonymous network?

Good reason to support Zcoin, which was not only first, but also superior as it does not have the issues you just described.

[kamikadze69]

I think not for monero. monero still has a long way to go as altcoin, and I think it can still grow and still have good potential.

[Moana]

I really don't think so. People in crypto love anonymity and this will prevail.

[joshki]

I think not for monero. monero still has a long way to go as altcoin, and I think it can still grow and still have good potential.

All it's going to take is the first person to be put in jail based on deanonymized transactions in monero for that to crash. 

The others seem like they may be better -- but the crypto is somewhat untested and resource heavy. 

[Vishnu.Reang]

Yes, montero is going down. Listen to Shelby, and everyone else. Sell all your xrm to them.

Like like I said with bcx, the only flaw with monero wrt to Shelby this time around is that he doesn't have enough in his pocket.

That is probably the case. I have seen law enforcement agencies tracing the Bitcoin transactions and arresting those who purchased the drugs with Bitcoins. But I have never heard about an incident in which an anonymous crypto-coin such as Monero or Blackbytes was traced back to a particular individual. So as of now, I don't think that there is anything to worry. 

[Getmon]

Yes, montero is going down. Listen to Shelby, and everyone else. Sell all your xrm to them.

Like like I said with bcx, the only flaw with monero wrt to Shelby this time around is that he doesn't have enough in his pocket.

That is probably the case. I have seen law enforcement agencies tracing the Bitcoin transactions and arresting those who purchased the drugs with Bitcoins. But I have never heard about an incident in which an anonymous crypto-coin such as Monero or Blackbytes was traced back to a particular individual. So as of now, I don't think that there is anything to worry. 

In terms of anonymity, Monero is the leading coin. Bitcoin was promoting their coin as completely anonymous way before but then it proved to be not totally. Law enforcement agencies have their own team of brilliant people and they were able to trace people involved with malicious activities even if they use BTC. Here comes Monero, and the anonymity level of crypto is taken a notch higher. So far, it proved to be really hard tracing Monero transactions with their respective identities.

[RamBahadur.Gurung]

Yes, montero is going down. Listen to Shelby, and everyone else. Sell all your xrm to them.

Like like I said with bcx, the only flaw with monero wrt to Shelby this time around is that he doesn't have enough in his pocket.

That is probably the case. I have seen law enforcement agencies tracing the Bitcoin transactions and arresting those who purchased the drugs with Bitcoins. But I have never heard about an incident in which an anonymous crypto-coin such as Monero or Blackbytes was traced back to a particular individual. So as of now, I don't think that there is anything to worry.  

In terms of anonymity, Monero is the leading coin. Bitcoin was promoting their coin as completely anonymous way before but then it proved to be not totally. Law enforcement agencies have their own team of brilliant people and they were able to trace people involved with malicious activities even if they use BTC. Here comes Monero, and the anonymity level of crypto is taken a notch higher. So far, it proved to be really hard tracing Monero transactions with their respective identities.

But what do you think about it? Do you think that Monero users can be traced by the law enforcement agencies in the future? I am a hardcore supporter of web anonymity. But that doesn't mean that I support criminal activities such as child pornography and trafficking of girls. I have no issues, if the law enforcement agencies trace pedophiles through Monero.

[joshki]

Yes, montero is going down. Listen to Shelby, and everyone else. Sell all your xrm to them.

Like like I said with bcx, the only flaw with monero wrt to Shelby this time around is that he doesn't have enough in his pocket.

That is probably the case. I have seen law enforcement agencies tracing the Bitcoin transactions and arresting those who purchased the drugs with Bitcoins. But I have never heard about an incident in which an anonymous crypto-coin such as Monero or Blackbytes was traced back to a particular individual. So as of now, I don't think that there is anything to worry. 

That's because they haven't tried very hard yet.

[joshki]

Yes, montero is going down. Listen to Shelby, and everyone else. Sell all your xrm to them.

Like like I said with bcx, the only flaw with monero wrt to Shelby this time around is that he doesn't have enough in his pocket.

That is probably the case. I have seen law enforcement agencies tracing the Bitcoin transactions and arresting those who purchased the drugs with Bitcoins. But I have never heard about an incident in which an anonymous crypto-coin such as Monero or Blackbytes was traced back to a particular individual. So as of now, I don't think that there is anything to worry. 

In terms of anonymity, Monero is the leading coin. Bitcoin was promoting their coin as completely anonymous way before but then it proved to be not totally. Law enforcement agencies have their own team of brilliant people and they were able to trace people involved with malicious activities even if they use BTC. Here comes Monero, and the anonymity level of crypto is taken a notch higher. So far, it proved to be really hard tracing Monero transactions with their respective identities.

But what do you think about it? Do you think that Monero users can be traced by the law enforcement agencies in the future? I am a hardcore supporter of web anonymity. But that doesn't mean that I support criminal activities such as child pornography and trafficking of girls. I have no issues, if the law enforcement agencies trace pedophiles through Monero.

There's no way to have an anonymous coin that isn't anonymous when the people using it are criminals. It's all or nothing.

[Marco Ambrusini]

Monero has a huge potential.it needs some few years to develop.

[asdalani]

I think not for monero. monero still has a long way to go as altcoin, and I think it can still grow and still have good potential.

Monero is not something that a novice trader can make their living on. Most coins don't have that many people selling the coins even if they have large bag holders.

[Hyperme.sh]

Anonymous coins could possibly end up as “black money” that will cause someone accepting the money to be imprisoned for up to 20 years (as of current USA legislation):

In theory, electronic money should provide as easy a method of transferring value without revealing identity as untracked banknotes, especially wire transfers involving anonymity-protecting numbered bank accounts. In practice, however, the record-keeping capabilities of Internet service providers and other network resource maintainers tend to frustrate that intention. While some cryptocurrencies[24] under recent development have aimed to provide for more possibilities of transaction anonymity for various reasons, the degree to which they succeed—and, in consequence, the degree to which they offer benefits for money laundering efforts—is controversial.

Note apparently as the law stands now, the person accepting the money has to have some knowledge or suspicion that the money might be derived from criminal activities in order to be culpable under the current law in the USA. Also, I have not been able to find the same personal level of criminal culpability in the EU laws yet in my searches. Most definitely not in Finland:

http://www.finlex.fi/en/laki/kaannokset/2008/en20080503.pdf

By taxing crypto-rubles at the capital gains rate for those that cannot provide a paper-trail of ownership, Russia and Putin are incentivizing the development of low-cost crypto-payment systems to exchange rubles for goods only in cryptocurrencies that also track ownership, like Ethereum and others that have transparent blockchain histories.

[…]

The crypto-ruble provides the means by which to convert, transaction-cost-free, back into the national ‘fiat’ currency to pay bills, taxes and the like.  This is in direct opposition to how the U.S., for example, treats cryptocurrencies.

The 2014 I.R.S. rule that classified Bitcoin as ‘property’ means that every Bitcoin transaction, no matter how minor, creates a potential capital gains event.  It means that buying a cup of coffee at Starbucks in Bitcoin is taxable for both the person buying the coffee (capital gains on the sale) and Starbucks when they go to sell those Bitcoins, buy dollars and pay salaries, order supplies, etc.

It’s why the capital that has moved into cryptocurrencies isn’t moving back out.  It’s why the ICO market has exploded.  Billions in profits actively looking for new investment opportunities without paying taxes.

It’s also the main reason why Amazon, for example, doesn’t take Bitcoin.  Who wants that hassle?

Can you imagine Amazon’s Schedule D if it accepted Bitcoin?

The crypto-ruble’s structure dispenses with that for those that can prove ownership via the blockchain.  Bitcoin allows for transaction transparency, so does Ethereum, Litecoin and many others.

The prospect of such a One-World-Currency that everyone would use on a daily basis is simply
impossible on a voluntary basis and could only be accomplished by force of
arms if that since not even Rome achieved that position. In contrast,
governments are collapsing from Marxism with its core principle that they have
the right, power, and wisdom to manipulate the economy to eliminate recessions
and control society. Such measures become authoritarian, and freedom
vanishes.

Today, this move toward a One-World-Currency is driven by taxation. The
government never considers they are the problem. Instead, they see the solution
as always had they just a tiny bit more power they would eliminate recession.
Governments have used terrorism as the excuse, and Money Laundering is now
redefined as hiding money from the government even if taxes. Today it is all
about sustaining power. We have this drive toward electronic money to control
all wealth. Thus, we will explore the complexity of this evolutionary process and
expose trends that are in motion that dictates the future.

Tie the above quote into the following:

I do not think it is possible to make distribution permissionless. Proof-of-work is competitive but the problem is that most people can’t compete thus the onboarding is very narrow and the token stays mired as a speculation and HODLER coin.

What I hope is that […]

[jorneyflair]

All of this is thereotical right now and currently, XMR is probably still the most anonymous and trusted anon coin out there. Dash and ZCash can't really even be considered to be anon, since anonymity is not enforced.

If this is true(can't really understand half the things he said, i'm not a big technical guy), then it's never too late for their respective teams to work on solving the issue. There is never going to be perfect anonymity, only better or worse.

[nidacoinlove]

All of this is thereotical right now and currently, XMR is probably still the most anonymous and trusted anon coin out there. Dash and ZCash can't really even be considered to be anon, since anonymity is not enforced.

If this is true(can't really understand half the things he said, i'm not a big technical guy), then it's never too late for their respective teams to work on solving the issue. There is never going to be perfect anonymity, only better or worse.

Well if the cryptocurrencies can't ensure anonymity then I guess they are useless. The for which people follow the cryptocurrency is to be anonymous. There must be some solid steps taken by the technical teams otherwise they to listen to the music. Monero is not doubt one of them leading to anonymity but the problem with monero is that it can't sustain it's price in a well manner. If it could respond in a good manner to bear the pressure built by bitcoin price then it will be the favourite one.

[Invester]

Why fucked? That was a hasty generalization that is purely based on fears that have no basis whatsoever. This can be placed in the category of FUDs. Monero and Dash are still leading in the world of anonymous coins, as well as ZEC. These 3 coins are the top when it comes to hiding your identity. Deeponion is introducing itself to be like them but I have doubts.

[JollySkipper]

No are not, is just a natural thing what happened now, these technologies are new. Do not forget this and will have some problems until they fix them.

[Hyperme.sh]

As far as anon-coins being illegal, can you elaborate on why you view this differently than Cryptos in general. What I mean is that Armstrong argues against BTC saying the elites simply won't allow it. You're rebuttal was that they can't shutdown Cryptos without shutting down the Internet (at least I hope I'm not misrepresenting correct me if i'm wrong). However, on the other hand you seem to be saying that Anon-coins will be banned and users jailed and consequently they won't be a viable solution as we'd all hoped.

The current USA law criminalizes (up to a 20 year felony) accepting money that has a known criminal origin, but apparently if you have no reasonable idea of it being criminal in origin, then the law does not currently criminalize it.

But the thing is that if you’re accept money from anonymous source, then you have not done the basic due diligence to insure you have reasonable belief that the money is not of criminal origin. So it is possible that all anonymous sources may become illegal to accept.

The USA appears to be the worst in this area so far. As I wrote, I could not find such criminalization of individuals (except for someone acting in some professional capacity that is AML regulated) in the Finnish law which I cited, at least for now.

In short, I think absolute anonymity is not going to hold up over the long-term as viable. The nation-states are going to have an incentive to criminalize “black money” as their hunt for taxes intensifies as the sovereign debt crisis accelerates with the coming short dollar vortex which is really going to accelerate in 2018.

Anonymity as a privacy right, where the payee knows the identity for payer, might however remain viable and allowed (because the payee can still report the paper trail to the authorities). Without privacy, businesses can not even use cryptocurrency because it means their competitors could track their activity. There are many other reasons that privacy is important and needed by society. Thus anonymity technologies remain important.

But note that if payees are reporting payers to the authorities, this is the sort of meta data collapse that I mentioned in my blog (linked from the OP) which is the subject of this thread. And thus the Zcash’s technology (not necessarily the current Zcash implementation though) could (in theory) be more reliably anonymous than the Monero/Cryptonote/RingCT technology. Which was the conclusion I made in my blog.

Note Zcash (Zk-snarks actually) has some performance limitations which were discussed in the comments that ensued at my blog. And this has to be addressed for it to be truly viable. Thus technologically anonymity is not yet a solved issue. There are potentially zk-STARKS coming and I heard that Monero is even looking into these new technologies.

Frankly though, I do not think any purely anonymity coin will survive long-term. The best anonymity technology will be folded into the most widely adopted altcoin and then that will be the end of the separate anonymity coins eventually.

Why fucked? That was a hasty generalization that is purely based on fears that have no basis whatsoever. This can be placed in the category of FUDs.

Here we go again with someone who can’t read.

And no, I am not going to repeat all the information again just for you. You can learn to read or continue telling others to eat dogfood.

Monero and Dash are still leading in the world of anonymous coins, as well as ZEC. These 3 coins are the top when it comes to hiding your identity. Deeponion is introducing itself to be like them but I have doubts.

Dash’s technology is absolute nonsense and I wish disingenuous shills would stop making us repeat that. But let them eat their dogfood. Additionally, anyone who thinks onion routing is reliable anonymity apparently has not studied the threat vectors.

[ask]

Anon coin prices are all connected to dash price and dash price is dropping after asic releases .
and more asics are on the way. will drop more.

[NoiseBoy]

There's currently a huge bounty available to anyone who's able to "break" Monero.

It remains unclaimed.

That is the answer to your question.