Make sure you pay your taxes to the government that spies on you!

[Severian]

The title is my smartass way of asking:

What happened to all of the upright posters that were so adamant that we all pay our taxes on Bitcoin earnings?

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[Hawker]

The title is my smartass way of asking:

What happened to all of the upright posters that were so adamant that we all pay our taxes on Bitcoin earnings?

We pay them.  What is the point of the question?

[benjamindees]

I give up.  Are they in Gitmo?

[Pzi4nk]

Of course I would pay taxes on any BTC converted to fiat. Until then it's just fake money and I'm playing a game.

[blablahblah]

Maybe you should ask: what's the end-game regarding Bitcoin and taxes?

Some possibilities:

a) Bitcoin remains a niche curiosity. It's the 21st century "tax haven" and supplants the various Cyprus' and Isle of Mans out there, but fails to starve other regimes. After some more banking collapses, various reforms occur around the world as mainstream finance finally realises it has to step up and perform better. New financial tools emerge: banking transactions become faster and safer, some offer features that were previously exclusive to Bitcoin such as irreversibility and maybe even some degree of anonymity. Governments start supporting various mini cash systems (as long as they get the tax of course), a bit like IPOs or redeemable coupons are fully accepted by society. Ironically, most people end up enjoying Bitcoin's benefits but without ever using Bitcoin.

b) Bitcoin keeps growing. Governments are unable to keep up, and eventually they start toppling due to lack of funds. People embrace this new low/zero tax Anarcho-Capitalist / Laissez-faire regime. Various social turnarounds occur: profit-driven education, health, justice, defence, infrastructure, central-planning, and superannuation (among others) ushers in a new era of prosperity. Even governments in various backward parts of the world end up collapsing as well due to Capitalism's unbeatable competitiveness. People have an epiphany and think "how did we end up tolerating all that authoritarianism for so long?! It's so nice that things are voluntary now."

c) Governments fight back. Being seemingly unstoppable, evil beasts that just won't die, they re-spawn as smart money-makers. How long Bitcoin "0.8" lasts seems irrelevant in the scheme of things. It's just a matter of time before the unfunded infrastructure collapses under its own weight. However, these money-makers will gladly produce newer, better coins that offer better performance and various other perks in exchange for tax superior fee structures. It's interesting how some people are so strongly opposed to overt taxes yet they gladly pay "inflation tax" and transaction fees under the Bitcoin model (in exchange for so little extra services, I might add!). Perhaps it really is just a matter of choice -- the ability to select between a wide variety of voluntary governance providers such as: BTC Guild, Bitminter, or 50BTC. Anyway, it later turns out that people want a bunch of government-ish services after all, and they would rather pay BTC Guild (or whoever) to provide an all-inclusive "social package" rather than wasting time with 1001 individual invoices each week. Unlike option (b) where there are no governments, the people grow to love their voluntarily chosen overlords.

[AzureEngineer]

Bitcoin does not equal no taxes, it never has, it never will.

[myrkul]

Bitcoin does not equal no taxes, it never has, it never will.

If taxation is defined as a government taking your money without your consent, it does.

[Elwar]

When my bitcoins gain value I will pay taxes on them.


As it is, I have lost all of my bitcoins that I bought at a low price. The only bitcoins I have left are the ones I bought at a high price. Those are the ones I spend.

 

[Pzi4nk]

When my bitcoins gain value I will pay taxes on them.


As it is, I have lost all of my bitcoins that I bought at a low price. The only bitcoins I have left are the ones I bought at a high price. Those are the ones I spend.

 

I like the way you think.

[Hawker]

Bitcoin does not equal no taxes, it never has, it never will.

If taxation is defined as a government taking your money without your consent, it does.

Bitcoin is no different from cash income.  You can be as shady as you want and pay as little tax as possible but if you live in a big house, have a big car, kids in private education and the like, you can expect to be forced to pay tax.  The taxman just won't accept you word for it that you have no income.

[myrkul]

Bitcoin does not equal no taxes, it never has, it never will.

If taxation is defined as a government taking your money without your consent, it does.

Bitcoin is no different from cash income.  You can be as shady as you want and pay as little tax as possible but if you live in a big house, have a big car, kids in private education and the like, you can expect to be forced to pay tax.  The taxman just won't accept you word for it that you have no income.

Except with cash, they can seize the funds (assuming they can find them - a safe assumption). It's not as easy with Bitcoin.

Sure, they can take the assets - the car, the house, etc, but that rips the velvet glove off that iron fist.

[Hawker]

Bitcoin does not equal no taxes, it never has, it never will.

If taxation is defined as a government taking your money without your consent, it does.

Bitcoin is no different from cash income.  You can be as shady as you want and pay as little tax as possible but if you live in a big house, have a big car, kids in private education and the like, you can expect to be forced to pay tax.  The taxman just won't accept you word for it that you have no income.

Except with cash, they can seize the funds (assuming they can find them - a safe assumption). It's not as easy with Bitcoin.

Sure, they can take the assets - the car, the house, etc, but that rips the velvet glove off that iron fist.

Where do you live?  The taxman always takes a charge on your house to collect overdue taxes.  There is no velvet glove.  They don't say "Please"

[myrkul]

Bitcoin does not equal no taxes, it never has, it never will.

If taxation is defined as a government taking your money without your consent, it does.

Bitcoin is no different from cash income.  You can be as shady as you want and pay as little tax as possible but if you live in a big house, have a big car, kids in private education and the like, you can expect to be forced to pay tax.  The taxman just won't accept you word for it that you have no income.

Except with cash, they can seize the funds (assuming they can find them - a safe assumption). It's not as easy with Bitcoin.

Sure, they can take the assets - the car, the house, etc, but that rips the velvet glove off that iron fist.

Where do you live?  The taxman always takes a charge on your house to collect overdue taxes.  There is no velvet glove.  They don't say "Please"

Typically they just take your money, first. Yank it right out of the bank. If they can.
Bitcoin is a tool, to let those who wish to deny the tax man what he seeks do so a little easier. It's far from a cure-all. But it helps.

[Mike Christ]

Everyone just missed the point

OP is pointing out the fact that we're paying for people to spy on us.  I'm pretty sure most of us don't like that, but I'm certain there's always that one guy who thinks privacy is a bad thing.  So the irony is, we're paying for something we don't want, and not only that, we're paying for something we don't want because we have no choice but to pay for something we don't want.

And remember, kiddos: "I am free."

[Spendulus]

When my bitcoins gain value I will pay taxes on them.


As it is, I have lost all of my bitcoins that I bought at a low price. The only bitcoins I have left are the ones I bought at a high price. Those are the ones I spend.

 

Lucky!

I only have bitcoins I bought at a higher price than what I will sell them for!  The wallet with the ones that I bought really cheap got lost.  Hard drive crash.  Yeah, just bad luck.

Now where do I put down my taxable losses and what kind of refund am I getting back?

[Hawker]

When my bitcoins gain value I will pay taxes on them.


As it is, I have lost all of my bitcoins that I bought at a low price. The only bitcoins I have left are the ones I bought at a high price. Those are the ones I spend.

 

Lucky!

I only have bitcoins I bought at a higher price than what I will sell them for!  The wallet with the ones that I bought really cheap got lost.  Hard drive crash.  Yeah, just bad luck.

Now where do I put down my taxable losses and what kind of refund am I getting back?

My company is writing off all the investment in mining kit using depreciation.  Talk to an accountant - you may be pleasantly surprised what is available to you.

[cryptoanarchist]

If you pay money to a government that mass murders like the US or UK - you're no better than the murderers.

If you're ok with paying for genocide because you're worried that some government thugs may knock on your door, then you're a weak coward and deserve to be a slave.

[Hawker]

If you pay money to a government that mass murders like the US or UK - you're no better than the murderers.

If you're ok with paying for genocide because you're worried that some government thugs may knock on your door, then you're a weak coward and deserve to be a slave.

And if you sit around trolling on the Internet when confronted by mass murder, what does that make you?

[myrkul]

If you pay money to a government that mass murders like the US or UK - you're no better than the murderers.

If you're ok with paying for genocide because you're worried that some government thugs may knock on your door, then you're a weak coward and deserve to be a slave.

And if you sit around trolling on the Internet when confronted by mass murder, what does that make you?

A recruiter?

[cryptoanarchist]

If you pay money to a government that mass murders like the US or UK - you're no better than the murderers.

If you're ok with paying for genocide because you're worried that some government thugs may knock on your door, then you're a weak coward and deserve to be a slave.

And if you sit around trolling on the Internet when confronted by mass murder, what does that make you?

Trust me, Hawker, given the chance I'd choke you to death with my bare hands.

I don't pay a dime to your queen's empire - including USA corp. Ad hominem me with troll accusations all you want - the feeling is mutual. You and your country are my eternal enemy.