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Bruce Wagner
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December 04, 2010, 02:50:51 AM
 #1

College kids being able to ANONYMOUSLY buy weed with a Visa/MasterCard .... Is that a "killer app" for Bitcoin?

1.  Kid buys Bitcoin with Visa online.
2.  Delivery Man accepts Bitcoin as payment.

Not to mention...

3.  Delivery Man can then keep it in Bitcoin as an investment, or
4.  "Cash Out" daily or weekly in a completely separate transaction with a local Cash-for-Bitcoin dealer..., or eventually even
5.  Send payments to distant suppliers without transporting cash, Or...
6. Travel abroud and take their Bitcoin with them via Internet... and "cash out" little by little to live on.
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kiba
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December 04, 2010, 02:52:33 AM
 #2

What make you thinks teen use weeds?

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December 04, 2010, 03:06:10 AM
 #3

Dude!  Stop talking!  Don't you know that Big Sister is listening!?

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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December 04, 2010, 03:09:02 AM
 #4

Based on the thread subject spelling, I bet I know what inspired this post...  Wink

See the heroin store thread for a discussion along similar lines.

My own opinion is that the US government loves to point to a technology, and make arguments in court along the lines of "the majority of uses are illegal / infringing / evil / etc., therefore, any use of that technology strongly implies illegality"  I'm not making a political statement about drugs or gambling; that's just the practical reality one finds with today's law enforcement.

The best way to make bitcoins a success is to convince legitimate, tax-paying, paperwork-filing merchants to accept bitcoins, and customers to pay them in bitcoins.  Similar to how bitcoin's network remains intact: as long as >50% of the network is not evil, we need >50% of well known merchants to be upstanding citizens in their respective jurisdictions.

One day, inevitably, law enforcement will have a bitcoin-related case, and having evidence of bitcoin's beneficial nature will be powerful and useful.  Concrete example:  presenting bitcoin as a way for donors to charities to remain anonymous is a powerful, positive argument for bitcoin.

If the bitcoin "brand" is generally considered to be a den of thieves, scam artists, tax evaders, and criminals, it gains increased law enforcement attention, and will be marginalized away from the general public.  I want bitcoin to be as broadly successful as possible.

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December 04, 2010, 03:10:58 AM
 #5

College kids being able to ANONYMOUSLY buy weed with a Visa/MasterCard .... Is that a "killer app" for Bitcoin?

1.  Kid buys Bitcoin with Visa online.
2.  Delivery Man accepts Bitcoin as payment.

Not to mention...

3.  Delivery Man can then keep it in Bitcoin as an investment, or
4.  "Cash Out" daily or weekly in a completely separate transaction with a local Cash-for-Bitcoin dealer..., or eventually even
5.  Send payments to distant suppliers without transporting cash, Or...
6. Travel abroud and take their Bitcoin with them via Internet... and "cash out" little by little to live on.


http://44eeao3qvv2wz3vv.onion/

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Bruce Wagner
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December 04, 2010, 03:55:17 AM
 #6

What make you thinks teen use weeds?

College "kids", not teens.   But yeah, about 80-90% of the college kids I've known smoke weed.   Probably more of them smoke weed than drink beer.... from my personal observations.

Based on the thread subject spelling, I bet I know what inspired this post...  Wink

Don't assume...  The typo I can blame on the virtual keyboard of my Android phone... and accidentally pressing Enter instead of Backspace... It posted mid-typo.

Actually, I don't smoke.... (anything).  Smiley


See the heroin store thread for a discussion along similar lines.

My own opinion is that the US government loves to point to a technology, and make arguments in court along the lines of "the majority of uses are illegal / infringing / evil / etc., therefore, any use of that technology strong imply illegality"  I'm not making a political statement about drugs or gambling; that's just the practical reality one finds with today's law enforcement.

The best way to make bitcoins a success is to convince legitimate, tax-paying, paperwork-filing merchants to accept bitcoins, and customers to pay them in bitcoins.  Similar to how bitcoin's network remains intact as long as >50% of the network is not evil, we need >50% of well known merchants to be upstanding citizens in their respective jurisdictions.

One day, inevitably, law enforcement will have a bitcoin-related case, and having evidence of bitcoin's beneficial nature will be powerful and useful.  Concrete example:  presenting bitcoin as a way for donors to charities to remain anonymous is a powerful, positive argument for bitcoin.

If the bitcoin "brand" is generally considered to be a den of thieves, scam artists, tax evaders, and criminals, it gain increased law enforcement attention, and will be marginalized away from the general public.  I want bitcoin to be as broadly successful as possible.

Yeah.   You make lots more sense than my question does.  Smiley

I suppose that there will be plenty of natural attraction anyway...   Attraction that certainly won't need our help....  Like how the porn industry was naturally attracted to the internet, when it was invented...   No one needed to ask them to sign up.  Smiley


I don't know how to visit a Tor site (if that's that this link is).
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December 04, 2010, 03:59:01 AM
 #7

I don't know how to visit a Tor site (if that's that this link is).


http://www.torproject.org/download/download.html.en

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December 04, 2010, 04:05:55 AM
 #8

I don't know how to visit a Tor site (if that's that this link is).

You can add tor2web.com:
http://44eeao3qvv2wz3vv.tor2web.com/

This is not secure, but it allows you to view Tor hidden services without installing Tor.

1NXYoJ5xU91Jp83XfVMHwwTUyZFK64BoAD
tyler
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December 04, 2010, 04:08:22 AM
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I don't know how to visit a Tor site (if that's that this link is).

You can add tor2web.com:
http://44eeao3qvv2wz3vv.tor2web.com/

This is not secure, but it allows you to view Tor hidden services without installing Tor.


SMF needs the correct hostname in the url in order to work properly

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The Madhatter
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December 04, 2010, 04:13:34 AM
 #10

College kids being able to ANONYMOUSLY buy weed with a Visa/MasterCard .... Is that a "killer app" for Bitcoin?

Credit cards are not really anonymous. They'd be better off buying Bitcoins with cash from someone they trust and then moving the Bitcoins for illicit items.

This would only obfuscate the trail of funds. It wouldn't make it impossible to get caught.

If they are going to go through that much trouble they might be better off just buying illicit items with cash in person (or perhaps by mail).
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December 04, 2010, 04:48:30 AM
 #11

Yeah, I really don't see the advantage of bitcoin over cash for in-person transactions.  I think the killer app is somehow micro-payment related.

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December 04, 2010, 04:53:48 AM
 #12

Yeah, I really don't see the advantage of bitcoin over cash for in-person transactions.  I think the killer app is somehow micro-payment related.

or transfering money over long distances, where other means are not very efficient

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December 04, 2010, 04:53:52 AM
 #13

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/12/realtime/

I would advise against doing that.
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December 04, 2010, 05:16:45 AM
 #14

"Not only do we put our hands down your pants, but we also spy on your transactions in realtime."  Angry
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December 04, 2010, 05:18:34 AM
 #15

Yeah, I really don't see the advantage of bitcoin over cash for in-person transactions.  I think the killer app is somehow micro-payment related.

Haven't you heard about The Bernanke?

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December 04, 2010, 05:40:26 AM
 #16

Yeah, I really don't see the advantage of bitcoin over cash for in-person transactions.  I think the killer app is somehow micro-payment related.

Cash is physical.  You gotta carry notes, get change, etc.  I can get torn, degraded, takes up space, etc.

bitcoins can have all the convenience of a credit card or debit card:  just bump your phone against a reader, and you've purchased something with digital cash.

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December 04, 2010, 06:07:45 AM
 #17

Yeah, I really don't see the advantage of bitcoin over cash for in-person transactions.  I think the killer app is somehow micro-payment related.

In the context of the title of this thread, the advantage of bitcoin for in person transactions is that if the cops are waiting for a deal to go down so that they can swoop in and confiscate everything to pad their budgets, it's much harder to take the bitcoins once the transaction is gone.  Particularly if the wallet.dat is encrypted on a remote server, overseas.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
Bruce Wagner
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December 04, 2010, 08:01:59 AM
 #18

Yeah, I really don't see the advantage of bitcoin over cash for in-person transactions.  I think the killer app is somehow micro-payment related.

In the context of the title of this thread, the advantage of bitcoin for in person transactions is that if the cops are waiting for a deal to go down so that they can swoop in and confiscate everything to pad their budgets, it's much harder to take the bitcoins once the transaction is gone.  Particularly if the wallet.dat is encrypted on a remote server, overseas.

Confiscation is a good point I hadn't thought of.

But my original point was CREDIT.  As far as I know, pot dealers don't take credit cards...  nor do they sell on convenient credit terms.

Thus, Visa --> Bitcoin
Bitcoin --> weed

The first transaction is not anonymous (the credit card)...  but all you bought is Bitcoin. 

The second transaction -- with a completely different party -- is anonymous.  And, presumably,  that's the transaction you'd want to remain anonymous. 

Since you gotta physically meet the guy anyway, cash probably is easier.   However, since you don't have $200 on you....  and all you have is that credit card mom and dad got for you "in case of emergency".....   This method lets you buy weed ON CREDIT.
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December 04, 2010, 08:08:55 AM
 #19

You all seem to assume that bitcoins will remain legal Tongue

Bruce Wagner
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December 04, 2010, 08:12:31 AM
 #20

You all seem to assume that bitcoins will remain legal Tongue

I'm just assuming that they are legal right now.

The term "confiscation" reminds me of another important application for Bitcoin.  

Try traveling by air carrying more than US $10,000.   When security personnel find it, the police will (1) confiscate it, and (2) use it as "evidence" that you must be smuggling drugs or something.

Try carrying bags of gold and silver coins out of the country.

It seems to me that this is one very important application for Bitcoin.
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