Atheism brougth us nothing good!

[ICOBank]

Atheist always want us to believe that our countries are doing so much better now that people are getting less religious!

But all that i see is:
-more depression and less simple happiness
-more organised crime (done by our governments)
-more rudeness
-more stress

What is your idea on this?

[1715324677]

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[a-m]

Check youtube for spiral dynamics.

[CoinCube]

Here are some thoughts I read on this topic today.

Spiritual Destruction or Awakening - The Choice is Ours.
http://albionawakening.blogspot.co.uk/2017/08/spiritual-destruction-or-awakening.html

Present day conditions are well nigh ideal for spiritual destruction. We have a comfortable material existence and a superficially plausible explanation for why life exists, plausible enough to satisfy those who aren't willing to look more deeply anyway, coupled with a technology that gives us an abundance of toys to distract us from our inner emptiness.

Furthermore the sexual revolution has led to a spiritual desensitivity which would have shocked our ancestors, the wisest of whom knew that releasing the sexual energy from a proper constraint (constraint not repression) is profoundly destructive on many levels, both spiritual and material. The wisest knew and the rest more or less followed, certainly in terms of how society and culture were ordered which is the important thing. Laws will always be broken but without law there is chaos, and that's what we have today if you observe from the vantage point of the spiritual plane...

Yes, people, especially the young, live and are growing up during a period of terrible corruption. I was told in the 1990s that we were living at a time of the greatest vulgarity in the history of the planet. Vulgarity was the word used but, in the manner used, it implied a lot more than just simple coarseness. It meant decadence, corruption and spiritual ignorance. It meant declining taste, lack of dignity and ugliness. Now, of course, things are significantly worse. So people, in particular young people with a debased culture, both popular and intellectual, are subject to appalling influences and temptations. But still the way out exists for those who will pay attention to the voice of truth within them. Outer institutions are useless so the way out is actually the way in but ultimately that's what it's always been, even when institutions helped rather than hindered the spiritual quest as used to be the case.

So we may be living in a time of spiritual darkness and deprivation but that is the test. Will we allow ourselves to fall into line with that because of a willful (and the will is always involved) lack of response to truth or will we listen to God's voice within? Will we follow the herd and the line of least resistance or will we acknowledge conscience and hearken to the intuition? We have the choice and if the choice is hard that is only because it must be to be a true test of our mettle, our spiritual quality and our good will. I believe that now we have, as probably never before, not on the same scale anyway, a sorting out of the sheep from the goats or, if you like, of the good seed from the bad. Today there is a real sifting of souls.

[killgald]

Atheist always want us to believe that our countries are doing so much better now that people are getting less religious!

But all that i see is:
-more depression and less simple happiness
-more organised crime (done by our governments)
-more rudeness
-more stress

What is your idea on this?

Thats not quite right, the men always have to believe in something call it god, budda or Ala but always in something.

[Yudhisthir]

Spiritualism is cool.
But we cannot relate all these problems to atheism.
It's all how our society is. We have developed our-self this way.

[chixka000]

I agree, even if we have to respect there personal opinions. I still cannot agree to the way they tell people about anything but most especially when it comes to everyones religion.

[Moloch]

Atheist always want us to believe that our countries are doing so much better now that people are getting less religious!

But all that i see is:
-more depression and less simple happiness
-more organised crime (done by our governments)
-more rudeness
-more stress

What is your idea on this?

The exact opposite is true...

Atheist countries have the least crime, and the happiest people

Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Canada, Switzerland, Australia, etc... predominantly atheist countries top this list, and all the countries at the bottom are highly religious

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report

1: Norway (atheist)
2: Denmark (atheist)
3: Iceland (atheist)
4: Switzerland (atheist)
5: Finland (atheist)
6: Netherlands (atheist)
7: Canada (atheist)
8: New Zealand (atheist/christian)
9: Australia (atheist/christian)
10: Sweden (atheist)
11: Israel (jewish/atheist)
...
14: United States (christian)
...
25: Mexico (christian)
...
37: Saudi Arabia (muslim)
...
151: Rwanda (christian)
152: Syria (muslim)
153: Tanzania (christian)
154: Burundi (christian)
155: Central African Republic (christian)

[Mad7Scientist]

I agree, also it gave us another thing:

- More science stupidity and people worshiping the scientific community becauset that's their new god in their Secular Humanist world. So they beileve Al Gore and whatever other crap the scientific majority pushes out.

[Moloch]

I agree, also it gave us another thing:

- More science stupidity and people worshiping the scientific community becauset that's their new god in their Secular Humanist world. So they beileve Al Gore and whatever other crap the scientific majority pushes out.

It always amuses me when someone mocks science while using a computer, cell phone, and all the wonderful things science has brought us (while failing to spell words properly)

Without science the life expectancy would be 30 years old, you wouldn't have a car, cell phone, computer, electricity, etc... you would be living like the Amish

[chixka000]

I agree, also it gave us another thing:

- More science stupidity and people worshiping the scientific community becauset that's their new god in their Secular Humanist world. So they beileve Al Gore and whatever other crap the scientific majority pushes out.

It always amuses me when someone mocks science while using a computer, cell phone, and all the wonderful things science has brought us (while failing to spell words properly)

Without science the life expectancy would be 30 years old, you wouldn't have a car, cell phone, computer, electricity, etc... you would be living like the Amish

There should always be a resistant because we can't also deny the fact that science is imperfect and that what makes the world balance. If science can explain anything then we should live perfectly but no that is quite impossible.

[Mad7Scientist]

It always amuses me when someone mocks science while using a computer, cell phone, and all the wonderful things science has brought us (while failing to spell words properly)

Hey stupid now that we're down to personal attacks the scientific didn't make those things happen it was private corporations and the military funding universities that did that. Now those corporations want a carbon tax and more enslavement so they push the scientific community to run fake climate studies and drug trials with faked results to submit to the FDA.

[CoinCube]

The exact opposite is true...

Atheist countries have the least crime, and the happiest people

Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Canada, Switzerland, Australia, etc... predominantly atheist countries top this list, and all the countries at the bottom are highly religious

I backpacked through Sweden 14 years ago. It was very nice back then. Lets take a moment and take a look at Sweden from a broad view.

Sweden is the 'least religious' nation in Western world
https://www.thelocal.se/20150413/swedes-least-religious-in-western-world

Almost eight out of ten Swedes are either "not religious" or "convinced atheists", according to a new global study that concludes the Nordic nation is the least religious in the West.

So what has been going on lately in the 'least religious' nation in the Western world. Well unfortunately crime rates are rising.

Yes, Violent Crime Has Spiked In Sweden
http://thefederalist.com/2017/03/01/yes-violent-crime-spiked-sweden-since-open-immigration/

Sweden’s official statistics do show increases in “lethal violence” (which includes murder, manslaughter and other deadly assaults) and sexual offenses  over the past ten years. Between 2006 and 2015 the incidence of “lethal violence” does fluctuate, but there is a sharp 65 percent spike from 2012 to 2015. In the same period, there was also an almost 49 percent increase in sexual offenses (a category including, among other offenses, rape). Looking at rape by itself, from 2006-2015 there was a 40 percent increase in the number of reported rapes.

Depression among the Sweedish youth is climbing.

Why Sweden's Youth Take More Antidepressants than Ever
https://www.vice.com/sv/article/jm9g38/why-the-sales-of-antidepressants-are-skyrocketing-in-sweden-123

The numbers of young Swedes reporting that they suffer from depression, anxiety or other mental health disorders has risen in the last 30 years. That increase has in turn led to a significant rise in prescriptions of antidepressants. In fact, according to the Swedish health authorities, antidepressant prescriptions increased by 36 percent between 2006 and 2012.

Here is a blog report from someone who backpacked through Sweeden last year. Although this is an individual report and must be taken as such he describes a country that sounds nothing like the place I visited 14 years ago.

Sweden Has Committed Suicide - A Letter From Stockholm
http://russia-insider.com/en/sweden-has-committed-suicide/ri17150

To those who haven’t heard, Sweden is the butt of just about every joke on the internet. Swedish men are mocked for their effeminacy and the country’s “tolerant” attitude towards migrants astounds many people. It is hard to believe some of the news stories about rapings, gropings and cultural marxist insanity that come out of Sweden on a weekly basis.

I assumed much of this was hyperbole, but I was so painfully, agonizingly, and completely DEAD WRONG.

But but they are happy right? So its all well and good? Sweden has consistently ended up high on happiness lists thanks to relatively strong social support and affluence. However, there are rumblings that this is starting to change.  Swedish happiness looks to be dropping.

Swedes drop to world's tenth happiest country
https://www.thelocal.se/20160316/swedes-drop-to-worlds-tenth-happiest-country

Are Swedes no longer as happy as they used to be? According to a new report Sweden has dropped to the world's 10th happiest country, down from fifth place three years ago.

So the 'least religious' nation is the western world appears to be on a bit of a downward trajectory. We will all get to watch the consequences as they play out slowly over the coming years.

[drachman]

Atheist always want us to believe that our countries are doing so much better now that people are getting less religious!

But all that i see is:
-more depression and less simple happiness
-more organised crime (done by our governments)
-more rudeness
-more stress

What is your idea on this?

Unless you got some proof I do not see how can you blame that on atheism, that is happening all over the globe not only in countries where atheism is the strongest.

[CoinCube]

Unless you got some proof I do not see how can you blame that on atheism, that is happening all over the globe not only in countries where atheism is the strongest.

Atheism is a rejection of prior knowledge and tradition. Thus any attempts to understand the effects of atheism must start with an understanding of effects of the prior tradition specifically the effect of religion on society. Below are my thoughts on the issue.  

Religion and Progress

The greatest obstacle to human progress is not a technological hurdle but the evil inherent in ourselves. Humans have knowledge of good and evil and with this knowledge we often choose evil.

Collectivism exists because it employs aggregated force to limit evil especially the forms of evil linked to physical violence. Collectivism is expensive and inefficient but these inefficiencies are less than the cost of unrestrained individualism. Collectivism aggregates capital for the common good and we are far from outgrowing our need for this.

1.   Prehistory required the aggregation of human capital in the form of young warriors willing to fight to protect the tribe.
2.   The Agricultural Age required physical capital in the form of land ownership and a State to protect the land.
3.   The Industrial Age required the aggregation of monetary capital to fund large fixed capital investments and factories.

A farmer in the agricultural age could achieve some protection from theft and violence by arming himself. He could protect himself against a small hostile groups by forming defensive pacts with neighboring farmers. To defend against large scale organized violence, however, requires an army and thus a state.

In 1651 Thomas Hobbes argued for the merits of centralized monarchy. He believed that only absolute monarchy was capable of suppressing the evils of an unrestrained humanity. He described in graphic wording the consequences of a world without monarchy a condition he called the state of nature.

In such condition, there is no place for industry; because the fruit thereof is uncertain: and consequently no culture of the earth; no navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by sea; no commodious building; no instruments of moving, and removing, such things as require much force; no knowledge of the face of the earth; no account of time; no arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short. - Thomas Hobbes Leviathan

There may well have been a time in human history when the absolute monarchy of Hobbes was the best available government but Hobbes was writing at the end of that era. England had been transformed from a nation almost completely conquered by the Odin worshiping Great Heathen Army of 865 to a country that protected the legal rights of nobles in the Magna Carta of 1215 to a devoutly Christian nation that formalized the rights of judicial review for common citizens in the 1679 Habeas Corpus act. Hobbes had failed to appreciate the growth of moral capital that allowed for superior forms of government with increased freedom.

Our forefathers understood that it is morality and virtue that allows for freedom a lesson many today have forgotten.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." - Benjamin Franklin

“Is there no virtue among us? If there be not, we are in a wretched situation. No theoretical checks, no form of government, can render us secure. To suppose that any form of government will secure liberty or happiness without any virtue in the people, is a chimerical idea. If there be sufficient virtue and intelligence in the community, it will be exercised in the selection of these men; so that we do not depend upon their virtue, or put confidence in our rulers, but in the people who are to choose them.” - James Madison

“Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports.” - George Washington

In human interactions we often face a choice between cooperation (reaching a mutually beneficial exchange) and defection (advancement of ourselves to the detriment of our fellow man). The nation state, police, and laws suppress physical violence but do nothing to maintain the morality and virtue that sustain freedom. Collectivism limits some avenues of defection while opening entire new possibilities. New opportunities for defection arise along the entire economic spectrum. Everything from special interest lobbying, to disability scammers, and on a larger scale our entire fiat monetary system are essentially forms of defection allowing the few to profit at the expense of the many. Nation state collectivism has allowed for the creation of great civilizations and yet is entirely unsustainable in its current form.

"our Western civilization is on its way to perishing. It has many commendable qualities, most of which it has borrowed from the Christian ethic, but it lacks the element of moral wisdom that would give it permanence. Future historians will record that we of the twentieth century had intelligence enough to create a great civilization but not the moral wisdom to preserve it." - A.W. Tozer

The perishing of Western civilization, however, does not mean fragmentation and collapse. Indeed in this instance the opposite appears to be true and collapse looks set to drive us via economic fundamentals and debt into a single world government paradigm for reasons discussed at length elsewhere.

The evolution of the social contract is a progressive climb to higher potential energy systems with increased degrees of freedom. The state of nature begat tribalism. Tribalism grew into despotism. Despotism advanced into monarchy. Monarchies were replaced by republics. It is likely that in the near future republics will be consumed by world government, and perhaps someday world government will evolve into decentralized government.

Each iteration has a common theme for each advance increases the number of individuals able to engage in cooperative activity while lowering the number of individuals able to defect. Each iteration increases the sustainable degrees of freedom the system can support. Moral capital is the foundation that allows this progress to occur. For this reason ethical monotheism is the single greatest contributor to human progress from any source since human culture emerged from the stone ages.

"Nature is amoral. Nature knows nothing of good and evil. In nature there is one rule—survival of the fittest. There is no right, only might. If a creature is weak, kill it. Only human beings could have moral rules such as, "If it is weak, protect it." Only human beings can feel themselves ethically obligated to strangers.
...
Nature allows you to act naturally, i.e., do only what you want you to do, without moral restraints; God does not. Nature lets you act naturally - and it is as natural to kill, rape, and enslave as it is to love.
...
One of the vital elements in the ethical monotheist revolution was its repudiation of nature as god. The evolution of civilization and morality have depended in large part on desanctifying nature.
...
Civilizations that equated gods with nature—a characteristic of all primitive societies—or that worshipped nature did not evolve.
...
Words cannot convey the magnitude of the change wrought by the Bible's introduction into the world of a God who rules the universe morally." - Dennis Prager

The utopia of limited to no government would only be possible for a population constantly striving at all times to be moral. Such a utopia would require all individuals to always act cooperatively, honesty, and transparently. We lack the required moral fiber for anything like this to work at our current juncture in history.

See: Freedom and God for more.

[The_prodigy]

Atheist always want us to believe that our countries are doing so much better now that people are getting less religious!

But all that i see is:
-more depression and less simple happiness
-more organised crime (done by our governments)
-more rudeness
-more stress

What is your idea on this?

I am not an atheist as I am a christian but my take on this is, if atheism did not do is anything good t also goes that religion did not bring us unity and properity as well. Which for me means that it is up to the people on what he/she do with his/her life on this world. No matter on what we believe in if we goal for the greater good then we would achieve it but if we breed enmity and hostility towards each other it would bring us closet and closer to our ruin

[SoulEaterRR]

I think that this is a wrong opinion. Atheism or another religion can not bring happiness or introduce a person into depression only if one does not become obsessed with these directions. In addition, there is a lot of crime among believing people who then go to church to pray for sins.

[sheldonnnn]

I think that atheism does not give us anything very bad. On the contrary, atheism is a manifestation of critical thinking, which is good. And also agnosticism is a kind of atheism, it warns us against premature radical judgments.

[Moloch]

I agree, also it gave us another thing:

- More science stupidity and people worshiping the scientific community becauset that's their new god in their Secular Humanist world. So they beileve Al Gore and whatever other crap the scientific majority pushes out.

It always amuses me when someone mocks science while using a computer, cell phone, and all the wonderful things science has brought us (while failing to spell words properly)

Without science the life expectancy would be 30 years old, you wouldn't have a car, cell phone, computer, electricity, etc... you would be living like the Amish

Hey stupid now that we're down to personal attacks the scientific didn't make those things happen it was private corporations and the military funding universities that did that. Now those corporations want a carbon tax and more enslavement so they push the scientific community to run fake climate studies and drug trials with faked results to submit to the FDA.

What personal attack?  Are you mad that I pointed out your poor spelling?
That isn't a personal attack, it's simply an observation... the more religious a person is, the worse their spelling... it simply points out the lack of education surrounding religious folk... probably why they are so opposed to science (they don't understand it due to poor quality education)

People always seem to fear that which they do not understand... don't be scared... do some research into things you don't understand (like atheism) and you will not fear it

If you think I made a personal attack, do you not admit you started it?
"More science stupidity" "So they beileve(sp) Al Gore and whatever other crap"
Sounds very offensive to me... ignorant as well
"people worshiping the scientific community"
Really?  You seriously think Atheists "worship" science?  Are you that stupid?  Do you think Atheists worship Satan too?  Where do you get these ideas?

the scientific didn't make those things happen

Learn some grammar!
Are you trying to say science didn't extend life expectancy (medicine), invent computers, cell phones and cars?

How do you think things get invented without science?  God made computers and cars?

[Pancho95]

No actually there is much more depression between people. Atheism brought us something that we should not do. It is like we are forgetting how lucky we are actually and running for something that we are not going to reach. And the life just go past us.

[karansingh300698]

not precisely true. people who don't openly profess their religion and beliefs are often perceived as non believers and atheist. but even these people do believe in doing good and working hard and being fair, which is after all what religion teaches us, to co exist harmoniously and prosper.
all people do nowadays is not be superstitious or have blind faith, and this is good because none of those ever did anything beneficial for anybody

[CookieDude]

Atheism brought us more positive things then religion, atheism thought you to act as yourself and think for yourself rather then following rlues written in a book that has been written by people that wanted to control you.
I don't see any atheist driving over people with a truck for the sake of science.

[Ucy]

Atheist always want us to believe that our countries are doing so much better now that people are getting less religious!

But all that i see is:
-more depression and less simple happiness
-more organised crime (done by our governments)
-more rudeness
-more stress

What is your idea on this?

The exact opposite is true...

Atheist countries have the least crime, and the happiest people

Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Canada, Switzerland, Australia, etc... predominantly atheist countries top this list, and all the countries at the bottom are highly religious

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report

1: Norway (atheist)
2: Denmark (atheist)
3: Iceland (atheist)
4: Switzerland (atheist)
5: Finland (atheist)
6: Netherlands (atheist)
7: Canada (atheist)
8: New Zealand (atheist/christian)
9: Australia (atheist/christian)
10: Sweden (atheist)
11: Israel (jewish/atheist)
...
14: United States (christian)
...
25: Mexico (christian)
...
37: Saudi Arabia (muslim)
...
151: Rwanda (christian)
152: Syria (muslim)
153: Tanzania (christian)
154: Burundi (christian)
155: Central African Republic (christian)

Your data is pretty interesting but I don't i think it is very true. I did an Internet search on some of the successful countries on your list, most still identifies as Christians...
The claim that developed Western countries are full of atheists is myth.


Blame Bigotry for bad behaviors not Religion.

[Ucy]

Atheist always want us to believe that our countries are doing so much better now that people are getting less religious!

But all that i see is:
-more depression and less simple happiness
-more organised crime (done by our governments)
-more rudeness
-more stress

What is your idea on this?

The exact opposite is true...

Atheist countries have the least crime, and the happiest people

Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Canada, Switzerland, Australia, etc... predominantly atheist countries top this list, and all the countries at the bottom are highly religious

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report

1: Norway (atheist)
2: Denmark (atheist)
3: Iceland (atheist)
4: Switzerland (atheist)
5: Finland (atheist)
6: Netherlands (atheist)
7: Canada (atheist)
8: New Zealand (atheist/christian)
9: Australia (atheist/christian)
10: Sweden (atheist)
11: Israel (jewish/atheist)
...
14: United States (christian)
...
25: Mexico (christian)
...
37: Saudi Arabia (muslim)
...
151: Rwanda (christian)
152: Syria (muslim)
153: Tanzania (christian)
154: Burundi (christian)
155: Central African Republic (christian)

Your data is pretty interesting but I don't i think it is very true. I did an Internet search on some of the successful countries on your list, most still identifies as Christians...
The claim that developed Western countries are full of atheists is myth.


Blame Bigotry for bad behaviors not Religion.

And my simple definition of Bigotry (not dictionary definition) is :  Aggressively holding on to beliefs or opinions that aren't proven to be true          

              

[Mometaskers]

Atheism is depressing only because you'd believe that you're practically on your own in this world. Whether that would be actually depressing would depend on the persons temperament though. Some might sulk while some might see it as a challenge to take full control and responsibility for their lives.

So the 'least religious' nation is the western world appears to be on a bit of a downward trajectory. We will all get to watch the consequences as they play out slowly over the coming years.

Much of this was after they let in all those "immigrants". Their problem was that living in peace and happiness for a long time has somehow made them a bit more trusting. Rather mean comparison but it's like the dodos. They never had any predators so when humans came in, they'd even just walk towards people expecting no harm.

As for the suicide rates, imagine going to an amusement park, on your own, after a really bad break up. All the happiness around you just amplify the sadness inside. If everyone's happy but you are not, you start to think that the problem is you.

[matuson]

Atheist always want us to believe that our countries are doing so much better now that people are getting less religious!

But all that i see is:
-more depression and less simple happiness
-more organised crime (done by our governments)
-more rudeness
-more stress

What is your idea on this?

The exact opposite is true...

Atheist countries have the least crime, and the happiest people

Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Canada, Switzerland, Australia, etc... predominantly atheist countries top this list, and all the countries at the bottom are highly religious

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report

1: Norway (atheist)
2: Denmark (atheist)
3: Iceland (atheist)
4: Switzerland (atheist)
5: Finland (atheist)
6: Netherlands (atheist)
7: Canada (atheist)
8: New Zealand (atheist/christian)
9: Australia (atheist/christian)
10: Sweden (atheist)
11: Israel (jewish/atheist)
...
14: United States (christian)
...
25: Mexico (christian)
...
37: Saudi Arabia (muslim)
...
151: Rwanda (christian)
152: Syria (muslim)
153: Tanzania (christian)
154: Burundi (christian)
155: Central African Republic (christian)

Your data is pretty interesting but I don't i think it is very true. I did an Internet search on some of the successful countries on your list, most still identifies as Christians...
The claim that developed Western countries are full of atheists is myth.


Blame Bigotry for bad behaviors not Religion.

Atheism for me is synonymous with realism. It seems to me that every year the atheists will become more and eventually all the Christian countries are atheistic. I'm sure the majority of people who now consider themselves believers are not. The real figures others.

[CoinCube]

Atheism is depressing only because you'd believe that you're practically on your own in this world. Whether that would be actually depressing would depend on the persons temperament though. Some might sulk while some might see it as a challenge to take full control and responsibility for their lives.

So the 'least religious' nation is the western world appears to be on a bit of a downward trajectory. We will all get to watch the consequences as they play out slowly over the coming years.

Much of this was after they let in all those "immigrants". Their problem was that living in peace and happiness for a long time has somehow made them a bit more trusting. Rather mean comparison but it's like the dodos. They never had any predators so when humans came in, they'd even just walk towards people expecting no harm.

As for the suicide rates, imagine going to an amusement park, on your own, after a really bad break up. All the happiness around you just amplify the sadness inside. If everyone's happy but you are not, you start to think that the problem is you.

While I would agree with your argument that the feeling of alienation and isolation of the individual is one of the primary reasons atheism can be depressing I would argue that on a societal level it goes far beyond mere depression and has profound society wide consequences. Here is a quotation from Bruce Charlton who is a blogger I follow. I agree with his assessment here.

Is it true that Man is a primarily religious being?
http://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2017/06/is-it-true-that-man-is-primarily.html

The literal insanity of mainstream public discourse, and the lack of insight of this fact, suggests that Man without religion is non-viable.

To put matters another way - religion is the most important thing in the human world.  

Of course, a few individuals, in the short term, can survive atheism mentally intact; but there is no evidence at all that this is a possibility for human societies over more than a few decades - then the signs of insanity (incoherence, exitinction) become more-and-more obvious... or they would do so if loss of insight was not itself a prime sign of insanity.

So insanity shields us from knowledge of our own insanity, because insanity destroys insight as much as it destroys judgement - it affects the whole mode of thinking.

How, then, do we know we, as a society, are insane?

1. By applying older judgements, from the time before Men became insane - reading old books, talking to non-modern people...

2. By looking at the basic biological viability of atheist societies in terms of reproduction, demographics, response to direct and immediate threats, scale of priorities ... Compare societies and groups that are biologically viable, with the modern atheist societies that are not...

3. By reflecting on how we feel about Life. Insane people are almost always miserable - dysphoric, despairing, desperate... almost all of the time. Even the euphoric frenzy of mania is brittle, and crashes into suicidal self-destruction with a high frequency. Is there hope?

In conclusion - religion is the most important thing.

Religion is necessary for long term motivation, for social coherence, for purpose, and to enable the individual to be a part of the whole.

Since religion is necessary, if or when humans either dispense with religion or else place it anything lower than first in priority; then they as individuals and their societies will begin to fall apart and spiral towards alienation, purposelessness, inability to perceive or reason what is important, cowardice (i.e. short-term selfishness), desperation and all the rest of it.

Modernity is the experiment of Man living without Religion. The experiment has been running for several generations.

But the experiment of modernity has deprived modern people of the motivation, honesty and ability to evaluate the results of the experiment - by the always changing criteria of modernity, modernity sees no alternative to itself...

Conclusion: Religion is objectively necessary; and, by one kind of reasoning, therefore true. If you are not religious you are living in error. If you are not religious then you need to become religious. The question you must settle is not whether you should be religious, but which religion you will adopt.

[bikihabana]

Here are some thoughts I read on this topic today.

Spiritual Destruction or Awakening - The Choice is Ours.
http://albionawakening.blogspot.co.uk/2017/08/spiritual-destruction-or-awakening.html

Present day conditions are well nigh ideal for spiritual destruction. We have a comfortable material existence and a superficially plausible explanation for why life exists, plausible enough to satisfy those who aren't willing to look more deeply anyway, coupled with a technology that gives us an abundance of toys to distract us from our inner emptiness.

Furthermore the sexual revolution has led to a spiritual desensitivity which would have shocked our ancestors, the wisest of whom knew that releasing the sexual energy from a proper constraint (constraint not repression) is profoundly destructive on many levels, both spiritual and material. The wisest knew and the rest more or less followed, certainly in terms of how society and culture were ordered which is the important thing. Laws will always be broken but without law there is chaos, and that's what we have today if you observe from the vantage point of the spiritual plane...

Yes, people, especially the young, live and are growing up during a period of terrible corruption. I was told in the 1990s that we were living at a time of the greatest vulgarity in the history of the planet. Vulgarity was the word used but, in the manner used, it implied a lot more than just simple coarseness. It meant decadence, corruption and spiritual ignorance. It meant declining taste, lack of dignity and ugliness. Now, of course, things are significantly worse. So people, in particular young people with a debased culture, both popular and intellectual, are subject to appalling influences and temptations. But still the way out exists for those who will pay attention to the voice of truth within them. Outer institutions are useless so the way out is actually the way in but ultimately that's what it's always been, even when institutions helped rather than hindered the spiritual quest as used to be the case.

So we may be living in a time of spiritual darkness and deprivation but that is the test. Will we allow ourselves to fall into line with that because of a willful (and the will is always involved) lack of response to truth or will we listen to God's voice within? Will we follow the herd and the line of least resistance or will we acknowledge conscience and hearken to the intuition? We have the choice and if the choice is hard that is only because it must be to be a true test of our mettle, our spiritual quality and our good will. I believe that now we have, as probably never before, not on the same scale anyway, a sorting out of the sheep from the goats or, if you like, of the good seed from the bad. Today there is a real sifting of souls.

There is a sifting of the souls indeed, but not only today. The Grim Reaper has never abandoned his post, not even for 1 day in the "eternal past", let me assure you. He is waiting on 7500 000 000 'souls' as it currently stands. Make the most of your miserable life before he makes his appearance to you!

[Tyrantt]

Maybe it didn't maybe it did but there should be a separation of the church and state. here, because of the orthodox religion, he wave holidays and non working days than we do working ones, every other day is some saint and people are not going to their jobs. That's one of the most ridiculous things here.

[Sithara007]

Right now, the largest number of atheists in the world live in China. And for sure, the living conditions there are much better than that in religious nations such as Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Yemen, or Pakistan.

[CoinCube]

Right now, the largest number of atheists in the world live in China. And for sure, the living conditions there are much better than that in religious nations such as Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Yemen, or Pakistan.

I would not bet money on China remaining atheist. China is changing rapidly.

China on course to become 'world's most Christian nation' within 15 years
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/10776023/China-on-course-to-become-worlds-most-Christian-nation-within-15-years.html

The number of Christians in Communist China is growing so steadily that it by 2030 it could have more churchgoers than America

It is said to be China's biggest church and on Easter Sunday thousands of worshippers will flock to this Asian mega-temple to pledge their allegiance – not to the Communist Party, but to the Cross.

The 5,000-capacity Liushi church, which boasts more than twice as many seats as Westminster Abbey and a 206ft crucifix that can be seen for miles around, opened last year with one theologian declaring it a "miracle that such a small town was able to build such a grand church".

The £8 million building is also one of the most visible symbols of Communist China's breakneck conversion as it evolves into one of the largest Christian congregations on earth.

"It is a wonderful thing to be a follower of Jesus Christ. It gives us great confidence," beamed Jin Hongxin, a 40-year-old visitor who was admiring the golden cross above Liushi's altar in the lead up to Holy Week.

"If everyone in China believed in Jesus then we would have no more need for police stations. There would be no more bad people and therefore no more crime," she added.

Officially, the People's Republic of China is an atheist country but that is changing fast as many of its 1.3 billion citizens seek meaning and spiritual comfort that neither communism nor capitalism seem to have supplied.

Christian congregations in particular have skyrocketed since churches began reopening when Chairman Mao's death in 1976 signalled the end of the Cultural Revolution.

Less than four decades later, some believe China is now poised to become not just the world's number one economy but also its most numerous Christian nation.

"By my calculations China is destined to become the largest Christian country in the world very soon," said Fenggang Yang, a professor of sociology at Purdue University and author of Religion in China: Survival and Revival under Communist Rule.

"It is going to be less than a generation. Not many people are prepared for this dramatic change."

China's Protestant community, which had just one million members in 1949, has already overtaken those of countries more commonly associated with an evangelical boom. In 2010 there were more than 58 million Protestants in China compared to 40 million in Brazil and 36 million in South Africa, according to the Pew Research Centre's Forum on Religion and Public Life.

Prof Yang, a leading expert on religion in China, believes that number will swell to around 160 million by 2025. That would likely put China ahead even of the United States, which had around 159 million Protestants in 2010 but whose congregations are in decline.

By 2030, China's total Christian population, including Catholics, would exceed 247 million, placing it above Mexico, Brazil and the United States as the largest Christian congregation in the world, he predicted.

"Mao thought he could eliminate religion. He thought he had accomplished this," Prof Yang said. "It's ironic – they didn't. They actually failed completely."
Like many Chinese churches, the church in the town of Liushi, 200 miles south of Shanghai in Zhejiang province, has had a turbulent history.

It was founded in 1886 after William Edward Soothill, a Yorkshire-born missionary and future Oxford University professor, began evangelising local communities.

But by the late 1950s, as the region was engulfed by Mao's violent anti-Christian campaigns, it was forced to close.

Liushi remained shut throughout the decade of the Cultural Revolution that began in 1966, as places of worship were destroyed across the country.
Since it reopened in 1978 its congregation has gone from strength to strength as part of China's officially sanctioned Christian church – along with thousands of others that have accepted Communist Party oversight in return for being allowed to worship.

Today it has 2,600 regular churchgoers and holds up to 70 baptisms each year, according to Shi Xiaoli, its 27-year-old preacher. The parish's revival reached a crescendo last year with the opening of its new 1,500ft mega-church, reputedly the biggest in mainland China.

"Our old church was small and hard to find," said Ms Shi. "There wasn't room in the old building for all the followers, especially at Christmas and at Easter. The new one is big and eye-catching."

The Liushi church is not alone. From Yunnan province in China's balmy southwest to Liaoning in its industrial northeast, congregations are booming and more Chinese are thought to attend Sunday services each week than do Christians across the whole of Europe.

A recent study found that online searches for the words "Christian Congregation" and "Jesus" far outnumbered those for "The Communist Party" and "Xi Jinping", China's president.

[Sadlife]

Even if there is religion or not, there will always be violence in life. Dont blame it all to atheism because humans is the name of an animal that cannot find in life without sacrifice. The pretty lie that is equality that has been taught by religions is spouted by weaklings who cannot look upon the darkness. Nothing but a lie to cover up life's ugliness. How many countless wars that has been declared all for the sake of this religions ? How many random meaningless murder has occur? The question is, are you contented what has been taught to you by your religion, haven't you look any further ? Haven't you question anything at all? Then your nothing but a puppet.

[LilibethSantos]

Atheism seems to thrive in countries where there is a lot of financial freedom and freedom of expression. Being an atheist in a religious third world country will likely sever you from your delicate family support network. In most first world and developing countries, you can get a basic job and have enough money to live on your own and lead your own atheist lifestyle. The exception I suppose would be countries like China or other communist or ex-communist countries where religion had been oppressed.

[Nibeloss]

On the contrary, I believe that atheism benefits and people become free from the religious yoke. Atheists choose their own way and are more friendly than religious fans.

[Moloch]

Atheist always want us to believe that our countries are doing so much better now that people are getting less religious!

But all that i see is:
-more depression and less simple happiness
-more organised crime (done by our governments)
-more rudeness
-more stress

What is your idea on this?

The exact opposite is true...

Atheist countries have the least crime, and the happiest people

Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Canada, Switzerland, Australia, etc... predominantly atheist countries top this list, and all the countries at the bottom are highly religious

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report

1: Norway (atheist)
2: Denmark (atheist)
3: Iceland (atheist)
4: Switzerland (atheist)
5: Finland (atheist)
6: Netherlands (atheist)
7: Canada (atheist)
8: New Zealand (atheist/christian)
9: Australia (atheist/christian)
10: Sweden (atheist)
11: Israel (jewish/atheist)
...
14: United States (christian)
...
25: Mexico (christian)
...
37: Saudi Arabia (muslim)
...
151: Rwanda (christian)
152: Syria (muslim)
153: Tanzania (christian)
154: Burundi (christian)
155: Central African Republic (christian)

Your data is pretty interesting but I don't i think it is very true. I did an Internet search on some of the successful countries on your list, most still identifies as Christians...
The claim that developed Western countries are full of atheists is myth.


Blame Bigotry for bad behaviors not Religion.

You did not conduct such research properly, if at all...

Every country that I listed as primarily atheist has a strong majority of self-identifying atheists living in that country. If there is no religion with a clear majority, I list the religion with plurality first, and the secondary religion second.

If I am wrong, please list the country you disagree with, and the percent you think each religion has in that specific country, and I will update the post if you are correct (which you won't be because I've already checked every country I listed)

Example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Norway

According to 2016 data from annual social-cultural study Norwegian Monitor (Norsk Monitor), 39 percent of Norvegians responded with "No" to the question to the question “Do you believe in God?”, while 37 percent said "Yes" and 27 percent said that they did not know.

I lump agnostics with atheists... because, they are "soft-atheists" (I similarly lump protestants, catholics, mormons, etc into "christian", so fair is fair)... so with Norway, we have 39% atheist + 27% agnostic = 66% atheist... 37% religious (mostly christian)... If you don't answer "yes" to the question, "do you believe in God?", you are an atheist
As a result of 66% vs 37% is predominantly one-sided, I label Norway as Atheist...

Israel however, is closer to 50%/50%, so I put (Jewish/Atheist) because it is more accurate/honest that way (half of Jewish adherents do not believe in God, which is different from christians/muslims, ref. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_atheism "A 2011 study found that half of all American Jews have doubts about the existence of God, compared to 10–15% of other American religious groups")

Also note: This is not "my data"... this is an independent international report based on numerous variables that has been conducted for years.  I simply added the predominant religion of each country in parenthesis (), using the most recent data/polling I could find (2016-2017)

[Ucy]

Atheist always want us to believe that our countries are doing so much better now that people are getting less religious!

But all that i see is:
-more depression and less simple happiness
-more organised crime (done by our governments)
-more rudeness
-more stress

What is your idea on this?

The exact opposite is true...

Atheist countries have the least crime, and the happiest people

Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Canada, Switzerland, Australia, etc... predominantly atheist countries top this list, and all the countries at the bottom are highly religious

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report

1: Norway (atheist)
2: Denmark (atheist)
3: Iceland (atheist)
4: Switzerland (atheist)
5: Finland (atheist)
6: Netherlands (atheist)
7: Canada (atheist)
8: New Zealand (atheist/christian)
9: Australia (atheist/christian)
10: Sweden (atheist)
11: Israel (jewish/atheist)
...
14: United States (christian)
...
25: Mexico (christian)
...
37: Saudi Arabia (muslim)
...
151: Rwanda (christian)
152: Syria (muslim)
153: Tanzania (christian)
154: Burundi (christian)
155: Central African Republic (christian)

Your data is pretty interesting but I don't i think it is very true. I did an Internet search on some of the successful countries on your list, most still identifies as Christians...
The claim that developed Western countries are full of atheists is myth.


Blame Bigotry for bad behaviors not Religion.

You did not conduct such research properly, if at all...

Every country that I listed as primarily atheist has a strong majority of self-identifying atheists living in that country. If there is no religion with a clear majority, I list the religion with plurality first, and the secondary religion second.

If I am wrong, please list the country you disagree with, and the percent you think each religion has in that specific country, and I will update the post if you are correct (which you won't be because I've already checked every country I listed)

Example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Norway

According to 2016 data from annual social-cultural study Norwegian Monitor (Norsk Monitor), 39 percent of Norvegians responded with "No" to the question to the question “Do you believe in God?”, while 37 percent said "Yes" and 27 percent said that they did not know.

I lump agnostics with atheists... because, they are "soft-atheists" (I similarly lump protestants, catholics, mormons, etc into "christian", so fair is fair)... so with Norway, we have 39% atheist + 27% agnostic = 66% atheist... 37% religious (mostly christian)... If you don't answer "yes" to the question, "do you believe in God?", you are an atheist
As a result of 66% vs 37% is predominantly one-sided, I label Norway as Atheist...

Israel however, is closer to 50%/50%, so I put (Jewish/Atheist) because it is more accurate/honest that way (half of Jewish adherents do not believe in God, which is different from christians/muslims, ref. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_atheism "A 2011 study found that half of all American Jews have doubts about the existence of God, compared to 10–15% of other American religious groups")

Also note: This is not "my data"... this is an independent international report based on numerous variables that has been conducted for years.  I simply added the predominant religion of each country in parenthesis (), using the most recent data/polling I could find (2016-2017)

Well, I got my info from this Wikipedia page https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Denmark
Excerpt from the site:
"According to the 2012 Eurobarometer , 71% of Danish people are Christians (64% are Protestant), 25% are non-religious and 3% are members of other religions."

I did a search on other developed countries on your list still thesame.



I still insist on discouraging Bigotry. If this is done, you may be shocked the numbers of atheist/agnostic in developing countries is higher than thought. The stats could even be thesame everywhere. People are forced to become what they don't want to be in these countries.
County like North Korea and Cuba  identify as athiests but If the freedom is there, the number of Religious people could really be far higher than athiests. You will be surprised that Japanese and South Korea have more Religious people too.

[Moloch]

Atheist always want us to believe that our countries are doing so much better now that people are getting less religious!

But all that i see is:
-more depression and less simple happiness
-more organised crime (done by our governments)
-more rudeness
-more stress

What is your idea on this?

The exact opposite is true...

Atheist countries have the least crime, and the happiest people

Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Canada, Switzerland, Australia, etc... predominantly atheist countries top this list, and all the countries at the bottom are highly religious

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report

1: Norway (atheist)
2: Denmark (atheist)
3: Iceland (atheist)
4: Switzerland (atheist)
5: Finland (atheist)
6: Netherlands (atheist)
7: Canada (atheist)
8: New Zealand (atheist/christian)
9: Australia (atheist/christian)
10: Sweden (atheist)
11: Israel (jewish/atheist)
...
14: United States (christian)
...
25: Mexico (christian)
...
37: Saudi Arabia (muslim)
...
151: Rwanda (christian)
152: Syria (muslim)
153: Tanzania (christian)
154: Burundi (christian)
155: Central African Republic (christian)

Your data is pretty interesting but I don't i think it is very true. I did an Internet search on some of the successful countries on your list, most still identifies as Christians...
The claim that developed Western countries are full of atheists is myth.


Blame Bigotry for bad behaviors not Religion.

You did not conduct such research properly, if at all...

Every country that I listed as primarily atheist has a strong majority of self-identifying atheists living in that country. If there is no religion with a clear majority, I list the religion with plurality first, and the secondary religion second.

If I am wrong, please list the country you disagree with, and the percent you think each religion has in that specific country, and I will update the post if you are correct (which you won't be because I've already checked every country I listed)

Example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Norway

According to 2016 data from annual social-cultural study Norwegian Monitor (Norsk Monitor), 39 percent of Norvegians responded with "No" to the question to the question “Do you believe in God?”, while 37 percent said "Yes" and 27 percent said that they did not know.

I lump agnostics with atheists... because, they are "soft-atheists" (I similarly lump protestants, catholics, mormons, etc into "christian", so fair is fair)... so with Norway, we have 39% atheist + 27% agnostic = 66% atheist... 37% religious (mostly christian)... If you don't answer "yes" to the question, "do you believe in God?", you are an atheist
As a result of 66% vs 37% is predominantly one-sided, I label Norway as Atheist...

Israel however, is closer to 50%/50%, so I put (Jewish/Atheist) because it is more accurate/honest that way (half of Jewish adherents do not believe in God, which is different from christians/muslims, ref. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_atheism "A 2011 study found that half of all American Jews have doubts about the existence of God, compared to 10–15% of other American religious groups")

Also note: This is not "my data"... this is an independent international report based on numerous variables that has been conducted for years.  I simply added the predominant religion of each country in parenthesis (), using the most recent data/polling I could find (2016-2017)

Well, I got my info from this Wikipedia page https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Denmark
Excerpt from the site:
"According to the 2012 Eurobarometer , 71% of Danish people are Christians (64% are Protestant), 25% are non-religious and 3% are members of other religions."

I did a search on other developed countries on your list still thesame.



I still insist on discouraging Bigotry. If this is done, you may be shocked the numbers of atheist/agnostic in developing countries is higher than thought. The stats could even be thesame everywhere. People are forced to become what they don't want to be in these countries.
County like North Korea and Cuba  identify as athiests but If the freedom is there, the number of Religious people could really be far higher than athiests. You will be surprised that Japanese and South Korea have more Religious people too.

Denmark is a tough one to pinpoint due to the huge drive towards atheist/secularism in the past 5 years... You are looking at 2012, and assuming 2017 is similar, but it is not... You are also using a different standard for religiosity... Many people will claim to simultaneously not believe in God, but still call themselves christian... to me, these are atheists because they do not believe in God... going to church doesn't make you a christian, believing in God makes you a christian

Here is April 2015:
http://cphpost.dk/general/denmark-still-predominantly-non-religious-says-expert.html

Gallup claims that 52 percent of the Danish population associates as either atheist or non-religious – but this figure is significantly lower than previous surveys that directly asked people whether they were religious.

A survey in 2008, also by Gallup, revealed Denmark to be in the top three least religious countries in the world

How could Denmark be in the top 3 least religious countries in the world if they are 70% christian?

Lets move on to 2016:
Danes leaving the church in droves
Record numbers leave Church of Denmark after atheist adverts

Thousands of people have left the Church of Denmark following a nationwide advertising campaign by the country's atheist society.

Between April and June, 10,000 people left the church - the highest number of registered withdrawals since 2007.

Notice Denmark sitting around 19% religious, while USA is around 65%?

You simply cannot claim Denmark is a Christian nation... It is entirely secular... Denmark is almost the least religious country on the planet!

[9000]

Atheist always want us to believe that our countries are doing so much better now that people are getting less religious!

But all that i see is:
-more depression and less simple happiness
-more organised crime (done by our governments)
-more rudeness
-more stress

What is your idea on this?

Well, let's look at highly religious countries, theocracies, the more religious the country is, the shittier it is to live, specially for women and minorities like homosexuals.

Lack of belief in magic never started a war.

[CoinCube]

Interesting chart do you know which countries are represented by the four data points in the upper left corner?

The ones to the immediate left of the USA.

According to this source it looks like those four countries are both more religious then the USA and report a life satisfaction that is higher or similar to the USA and I am curious as to which countries they are.

[Ucy]

Always do what is right!
Be aware that your deeds, good or evil will be rewarded in the end!

[hyenashell]

I don't have a religion now because they wanted me to had fake hopes on nothing real, i'm more happy now knowing that i'm the only responsible of what happens to me and my life.

[Senkuli]

Atheist always want us to believe that our countries are doing so much better now that people are getting less religious!

But all that i see is:
-more depression and less simple happiness
-more organised crime (done by our governments)
-more rudeness
-more stress

What is your idea on this?

I agree with you that atheism is not good for me or the religious community.
If atheist society feels getting everything from their government then they will only find a monotone life governed by their government.
They feel that the state is doing things better than what God created and which God gave to humans, and it could be that atheists or atheist governments feel themselves more than God. In the end they will conform their own thoughts or knowledge as a religion,they will have a desire to control the community or other countries.

[Mometaskers]

Atheism seems to thrive in countries where there is a lot of financial freedom and freedom of expression. Being an atheist in a religious third world country will likely sever you from your delicate family support network. In most first world and developing countries, you can get a basic job and have enough money to live on your own and lead your own atheist lifestyle. The exception I suppose would be countries like China or other communist or ex-communist countries where religion had been oppressed.

In general, the poorer the country, the more religious it is. I can't think of an atheist-majority third-world country. Since the poor need all the support they can get, you won't see them flaunting their atheism and other non-conformities. And in some cases, it would be deadly, like in Pakistan where people would literally behead you on the streets.

[criptix]

@Coincube

Re increased violent and sex crime:

Swedish Christian nationalist would say the cause is mass immigration from sub sahara and middle east muslims.

Re china:

Official numbers are like <3% of the population. (From 1949 until now)
Important is that chinese christianity is just another tool for the chinese communist party to control the population.
The CPC is even appointing the Archbishop for china.

The best example that there exist no western christianity or religious freedom is falung gong.
In 6-7 years they managed to grow to 70 million believers and now the CPC is farming their organs.

[jettaheader]

Fuck all haters, believers and non ones, you just fuck up and ruin your side reputation.

[Nikola95]

Well problem of atheism is that they don't want to listen what other side have to say. And biggest problem about that relation between religion and atheism is that both of them want to convince other side, or random people in their belief.  Just leave everyone to belive in what they want.

[CoinCube]

@Coincube

Re increased violent and sex crime:

Swedish Christian nationalist would say the cause is mass immigration from sub sahara and middle east muslims.

Re china:

Official numbers are like <3% of the population. (From 1949 until now)
Important is that chinese christianity is just another tool for the chinese communist party to control the population.
The CPC is even appointing the Archbishop for china.

The best example that there exist no western christianity or religious freedom is falung gong.
In 6-7 years they managed to grow to 70 million believers and now the CPC is farming their organs.

China is changing blink and you won't recognize the place. The Falung Gong persecution happened in 1999 almost a full generation ago now and I doubt things will play out the same way this time. To stop Christianity in China would require something far beyond what was deployed against Falung Gong it would probably take a 1966 cultural revolution type effort.

Which is not to say that there won't be persecution and oppression of Christians in China. Their most certainly will be but probably not nearly enough to change the long term trajectory of the country. Thats how I think it will play out at any rate.

I would respond to your Swedish Christian nationalist with the observation that mass uncontrolled immigration is a symptom not an ultimate cause. A robust culture would either absorb and convert migrants while suppressing the criminal element or if that was impossible limit the numbers of migrants so it became possible. Since this is not occurring in Sweden we must exam the factors that prevent it from occurring for this ultimately is the cause. Most nationalist of whatever variety believe that race is what determines culture. I believe religion defines culture.  

Chinese Marxism in particular is a flawed and dying religion and even the "Communist Party" in China knows it which is why they only pay it lip service. Lacking true believers I do not think the Party will muster the will to mount a 1966 style suppression campaign. They will likely settle for token measures like this one.

China bans religious beliefs for 88 million people
http://www.christian.org.uk/news/china-bans-religious-beliefs-88-million-people/

The Chinese Government has banned members of the country’s ruling Communist Party from holding any religious beliefs.

An article written by the Wang Zuaon Director of the State Administration for Religious Affairs revealed that all Party members must abandon religion for Marxist atheism or be punished.

It also stated that religious groups should be ‘guided’ by the state in altering their doctrine in order to promote “socialist core values”.

Undermine
Over 88 million people are members of the Communist Party of China (CPC), and many apply to join the Party in order to enjoy better career prospects.

The CPC believes that foreigners have used Christianity and Islam to deliberately spread their political views in China and so undermine the Party, leading Wang Zuaon to introduce the permanent regulations.

He wrote: “Party members should not have religious beliefs, which is a red line for all members”.

Punishment
“Party members should be firm Marxist atheists, obey Party rules and stick to the Party’s faith… they are not allowed to seek value and belief in religion”, he added.

Wang also wrote that Party officials who have a religious faith should be persuaded to give it up, and those who resisted would be punished by the CPC.

Su Wei, a professor at the Party School of the CPC Chongqing Committee responded to Wang’s regulations by referring to Christianity as part of “China’s religious problem”.

Exponential growth
Christianity in China has been accused of being a national security risk, and in the past few years, hundreds of Christian pastors and activists have been arrested.

The international freedom watchdog Freedom House said in March that as many as 100 million people in China are facing “high” or “very high” levels of persecution under Communist rule.

However while religious freedom is under threat, Christianity has been growing exponentially in China.

Academics predict that by 2030 China will have more than 247 million Christians, which would be more than 17 per cent of the projected population.

[Tyrantt]

Well problem of atheism is that they don't want to listen what other side have to say. And biggest problem about that relation between religion and atheism is that both of them want to convince other side, or random people in their belief.  Just leave everyone to belive in what they want.

Atheists tend to think they're above anyone else, anyone who's a person of faith. Most of them just can't stay out of the conversation about religion without bashing it or telling everyone how stupid they are. Tho both of the sides have extremists, but atheists are kind of elitists.

[KitBlash10]

Atheist always want us to believe that our countries are doing so much better now that people are getting less religious!

But all that i see is:
-more depression and less simple happiness
-more organised crime (done by our governments)
-more rudeness
-more stress

What is your idea on this?

Say what? I know most of the worst criminals over the world have one religion, so don't tell stupid things.

[gabmen]

Well problem of atheism is that they don't want to listen what other side have to say. And biggest problem about that relation between religion and atheism is that both of them want to convince other side, or random people in their belief.  Just leave everyone to belive in what they want.

Atheists tend to think they're above anyone else, anyone who's a person of faith. Most of them just can't stay out of the conversation about religion without bashing it or telling everyone how stupid they are. Tho both of the sides have extremists, but atheists are kind of elitists.

I think there will always be extremism with any religion. I'm not an atheist but there are as much christians who bash other religions as well. And that goes for other religions. People who don't have open minds are like that. If we don't put so much stress on any religion and just respect others and their beliefs, we could all be just fine

[jonnybravo0411]

I do not think that religion or atheism can give something good. Bad people are in different religious trends or atheists. It is more important to educate a person, not his religious faith.

[GreenBits]

I do not think that religion or atheism can give something good. Bad people are in different religious trends or atheists. It is more important to educate a person, not his religious faith.

Religious growth is an education. A moral and ethical one

Folks often conflate a religion with its worst adherents. Take Christianity on this board for example. The overwhelming majority of atheist I see are former Christians. They don't object to the message itself, and how could you? When Christianity is done right, it is love, respect and empathy for your fellow man. Like Communism, it looks great on paper (the Bible is made of paper,) the issue is when folks don't follow the message. The hypocrisy turns a lot of folks off of the faith. The fact that there are "bummy" Christians enhances it for me; it tells me the path I walk is necessary, because I need to mitigate those that would cause others suffering.

If Christians acted like the New Testament, what critique, dear atheist, would you have for them? Don't feed the needy? Don't help the sick? Don't turn the other cheek? These are noble ideas.

Don't be mad at Christ. Be mad at people.

[popcorn1]

I do not think that religion or atheism can give something good. Bad people are in different religious trends or atheists. It is more important to educate a person, not his religious faith.

Religious growth is an education. A moral and ethical one

Folks often conflate a religion with its worst adherents. Take Christianity on this board for example. The overwhelming majority of atheist I see are former Christians. They don't object to the message itself, and how could you? When Christianity is done right, it is love, respect and empathy for your fellow man. Like Communism, it looks great on paper (the Bible is made of paper,) the issue is when folks don't follow the message. The hypocrisy turns a lot of folks off of the faith. The fact that there are "bummy" Christians enhances it for me; it tells me the path I walk is necessary, because I need to mitigate those that would cause others suffering.

If Christians acted like the New Testament, what critique, dear atheist, would you have for them? Don't feed the needy? Don't help the sick? Don't turn the other cheek? These are noble ideas.

Don't be mad at Christ. Be mad at people.

Don't be mad at Christ. Be mad at people.
Yes typical answer from a religious dude  ..

I thinks that is what they are already doing being mad at the people and not blaming the religion..
And you want more ..

See you don't realise the trouble you cause by what you say over fairy tales ..

Be mad at the people over religion it's the people not the religion..

So now that can cause many outcomes

Not following the religion  Be mad at people.

Mock my religion   Be mad at people.

It's what you religious folk do  Be mad at people.

You read a book claim it to be the truth then go wacko if anyone disagrees with your idea of how the book should be interpreted when really it's all man made stories to sell a book in the olden days..

Like harry potter in 200 years from now ..
Then we will have the new harry potter testament because no one believes in wizards so just like the old testament got changed to the new testament harry potter will in 200 years..

Why is it if something is wrote in a book it's more true than if it's put on the internet ?..

You show people video evidence off youtube and they claim a book hold more substance 

You can see it come out of the persons mouth on many different videos from many different people
using mobile video phones but still a book hold more substance or a news paper ..

So if it's been wrote down in words on paper it's the truth..
But video evidence is a lie ..

Is a library full of books the truth over the internet holding the truth?..

I believe the internet over the library of books..

[Sithara007]

I do not think that religion or atheism can give something good. Bad people are in different religious trends or atheists. It is more important to educate a person, not his religious faith.

Tell that to the choirboys who were abused by the Christian clerics. Atheism is better than Semitic religions such as Islam and Christianity, which teach their followers to hate anyone who doesn't belong to these religions.

[GreenBits]

I do not think that religion or atheism can give something good. Bad people are in different religious trends or atheists. It is more important to educate a person, not his religious faith.

Religious growth is an education. A moral and ethical one

Folks often conflate a religion with its worst adherents. Take Christianity on this board for example. The overwhelming majority of atheist I see are former Christians. They don't object to the message itself, and how could you? When Christianity is done right, it is love, respect and empathy for your fellow man. Like Communism, it looks great on paper (the Bible is made of paper,) the issue is when folks don't follow the message. The hypocrisy turns a lot of folks off of the faith. The fact that there are "bummy" Christians enhances it for me; it tells me the path I walk is necessary, because I need to mitigate those that would cause others suffering.

If Christians acted like the New Testament, what critique, dear atheist, would you have for them? Don't feed the needy? Don't help the sick? Don't turn the other cheek? These are noble ideas.

Don't be mad at Christ. Be mad at people.

Don't be mad at Christ. Be mad at people.
Yes typical answer from a religious dude  ..

I thinks that is what they are already doing being mad at the people and not blaming the religion..
And you want more ..

See you don't realise the trouble you cause by what you say over fairy tales ..

Be mad at the people over religion it's the people not the religion..

So now that can cause many outcomes

Not following the religion  Be mad at people.

Mock my religion   Be mad at people.

It's what you religious folk do  Be mad at people.

You read a book claim it to be the truth then go wacko if anyone disagrees with your idea of how the book should be interpreted when really it's all man made stories to sell a book in the olden days..

Like harry potter in 200 years from now ..
Then we will have the new harry potter testament because no one believes in wizards so just like the old testament got changed to the new testament harry potter will in 200 years..

Why is it if something is wrote in a book it's more true than if it's put on the internet ?..

You show people video evidence off youtube and they claim a book hold more substance 

You can see it come out of the persons mouth on many different videos from many different people
using mobile video phones but still a book hold more substance or a news paper ..

So if it's been wrote down in words on paper it's the truth..
But video evidence is a lie ..

Is a library full of books the truth over the internet holding the truth?..

I believe the internet over the library of books..

Well consider what you just wrote. I'm not mad at any of the atheist here that continually attack my religion. You and I disagree on a lot of shit, but I still love you. You could come stay at my crib and eat my food. You have done me no harm. Who am I to judge you for your beliefs? My Lord doesn't judge me for my sins, and I am so much less than him.

Why are we mad at those that don't agree with us? I'm usually meh. The opposite of love isn't hate, it's apathy. The things that I do not love are the things that are meaningless to me. So I always question the motivations of those that attack things that don't concern them. I have no opinion about the things I don't care about.

This boils down to faith, bro. I will never be able to explain faith in the unknown to you. It is a measure given to all men; but it withers with disuse.

Show me irrefutable proof if the not existence of God. You can't. As I would have a hard time showing you proof of the opposite.

I've never gone wacko behind defending this. Your life is your choice. Free will and such. I just want you to sit with me in Heaven, so we can talk like this whenever. Thus is the extent of my love for you popcorn, and everyone on this board, you too Moloch. The way you guys talk shows me that because of my religion, you don't have the same empathy for me. you think me a fool, despite my goodwill.

I can accept that. Its life. And it's beautiful, I wouldn't change it or any of you one single bit.

God bless all of you.

[Avametra]

Atheists are much better than for example Muslims who commit terrorist attacks and are bad for women. The world is developing and religion should also develop or die.

[Moloch]

While it is true that there is no definitive atheistic worldview, all atheists share the same fundamental beliefs as core to their personal worldviews. While some want to state that atheism is simply a disbelief in the existence of a god, there really is more to it. Every expression of atheism necessitates at least three additional affirmations:

1. The universe is purely material. It is strictly natural, and there is no such thing as the supernatural (e.g., gods or spiritual forces).

2. The universe is scientific. It is observable, knowable and governed strictly by the laws of physics.

3. The universe is impersonal. It does not a have consciousness or a will, nor is it guided by a consciousness or a will.

Denial of any one of those three affirmations will strike a mortal blow to atheism. Anything and everything that happens in such a universe is meaningless. A tree falls. A young girl is rescued from sexual slavery. A dog barks. A man is killed for not espousing the national religion. These are all actions that can be known and explained but never given any meaning or value.

A good atheist — that is, a consistent atheist — recognizes this dilemma. His only reasonable conclusion is to reject objective meaning and morality. Thus, calling him “good” in the moral sense is nonsensical. There is no morally good atheist, because there really is no objective morality. At best, morality is the mass delusion shared by humanity, protecting us from the cold sting of despair.

Why do christians think they know so much about atheists? (not that it should be difficult to understand a lack of belief... but you just don't get it)

You realize agnostics are also atheists... right? (so much for your "3 additional affirmations")

As for your point about atheists not being good, I object

Atheists are the only "good" people... Atheists are good people because they want society to be a better place for everyone... Atheists realize the benefit of being good over evil... Atheists are good because they love humanity

Christians are only good because they fear god... they are not acting out of love, but acting from fear of retribution from a non-existent sky-god... this is not being "good", it is being "selfish"... Christians act for selfish reasons, so they can go to heaven, so god won't punish them...

Atheists have no god... Atheists are good people because they are compassionate... not because they are selfish and afraid of what some sky-god might do to them

If You’re Only Moral Because of God, “I Don’t Want To Know You”

tl;dr - If you are only moral because you are afraid of hell... you don't understand morality... morality comes from philosophy and an understanding of civilized society... not dictated by some 3000 year old desert dwelling tribe claiming a sky-god told them so

[jaibster]

How can they live in this miserable world without believing in a diety to look up to and seek help?

[CoinCube]

While it is true that there is no definitive atheistic worldview, all atheists share the same fundamental beliefs as core to their personal worldviews. While some want to state that atheism is simply a disbelief in the existence of a god, there really is more to it. Every expression of atheism necessitates at least three additional affirmations:

1. The universe is purely material. It is strictly natural, and there is no such thing as the supernatural (e.g., gods or spiritual forces).

2. The universe is scientific. It is observable, knowable and governed strictly by the laws of physics.

3. The universe is impersonal. It does not a have consciousness or a will, nor is it guided by a consciousness or a will.

Denial of any one of those three affirmations will strike a mortal blow to atheism. Anything and everything that happens in such a universe is meaningless. A tree falls. A young girl is rescued from sexual slavery. A dog barks. A man is killed for not espousing the national religion. These are all actions that can be known and explained but never given any meaning or value.

A good atheist — that is, a consistent atheist — recognizes this dilemma. His only reasonable conclusion is to reject objective meaning and morality. Thus, calling him “good” in the moral sense is nonsensical. There is no morally good atheist, because there really is no objective morality. At best, morality is the mass delusion shared by humanity, protecting us from the cold sting of despair.

Why do christians think they know so much about atheists? (not that it should be difficult to understand a lack of belief... but you just don't get it)

You realize agnostics are also atheists... right? (so much for your "3 additional affirmations")

As for your point about atheists not being good, I object

Atheists are the only "good" people... Atheists are good people because they want society to be a better place for everyone... Atheists realize the benefit of being good over evil... Atheists are good because they love humanity

bcnaranjo I am quoting your text in it's entirety because it truly strikes to the heart of the matter. In my experience very few atheists are willing to examine the logical and metaphysical underpinnings of their world view and its consequences.  

I would, however, argue that your points #1 and #3 are the more important ones. Belief that the universe is scientific is not incompatible with a belief in God.

Moloch you once again refuse to engage in any deeper analysis of your views. Belief in God changes how we live our lives not only because of the belief but also as a consequence of what logically follows. bcnaranjo explains these well and I recommend you reread what he wrote.

No one is saying that there are not many good atheists. However without God there is no objective good at all. This is a conclusion that a rational atheist will reach if he is willing to follow his beliefs to their logical conclusions.

[dali_masmoudi]

Not really nothing, but taught as that we have to learn more about what,we are believing ...
For example, you can found someone who is very religious but he don't understand well his religion.
Athesiests are working more on brain and learning.

[eagleman]

They are only telling their point of views but they don't want to hear others opinion. It's funny to see these type of "intelligent" people and says bad about religions but in the end they are the ones who are hurting the feeling of others.

[dippididodaday]

While it is true that there is no definitive atheistic worldview, all atheists share the same fundamental beliefs as core to their personal worldviews. While some want to state that atheism is simply a disbelief in the existence of a god, there really is more to it. Every expression of atheism necessitates at least three additional affirmations:

1. The universe is purely material. It is strictly natural, and there is no such thing as the supernatural (e.g., gods or spiritual forces).

2. The universe is scientific. It is observable, knowable and governed strictly by the laws of physics.

3. The universe is impersonal. It does not a have consciousness or a will, nor is it guided by a consciousness or a will.

Denial of any one of those three affirmations will strike a mortal blow to atheism. Anything and everything that happens in such a universe is meaningless. A tree falls. A young girl is rescued from sexual slavery. A dog barks. A man is killed for not espousing the national religion. These are all actions that can be known and explained but never given any meaning or value.

A good atheist — that is, a consistent atheist — recognizes this dilemma. His only reasonable conclusion is to reject objective meaning and morality. Thus, calling him “good” in the moral sense is nonsensical. There is no morally good atheist, because there really is no objective morality. At best, morality is the mass delusion shared by humanity, protecting us from the cold sting of despair.

Are you a writer of some sort? I bolded something your wrote because it gave me the idea...

I am not sure what I am, but I know for a fact that I am simply me. Anything can produce (lead to) something good. To your points:

1. Why can't we be the supernatural ones in this vast expanse, beyond comprehension, tell me?

2. Who said all physical laws have to be observable, measurable, quantifiable?

3. Why can't we be the ones who guide this universe by our consciousness or will?

Out of the cold sting of despair, new hope is born, time and time again - it is how we become truly moral.

[killgald]

Religion either so it´s better to keep going and not judge other for religion.

[galestorm]

This is the problem in today's society. People often attack eachother by means of verbal conversation especially through the net. Why do people always find a way to offend someone? Or rather yet to stereotypically come up with ideas to attack another group of religion? People tend to overgeneralize the situation, saying that all christians are this, all atheists are that. Seriously people.. is it that hard to respect eachothers beliefs and move on with our lives?

[ICOBank]

Atheist always want us to believe that our countries are doing so much better now that people are getting less religious!

But all that i see is:
-more depression and less simple happiness
-more organised crime (done by our governments)
-more rudeness
-more stress

What is your idea on this?

The exact opposite is true...

Atheist countries have the least crime, and the happiest people

Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Canada, Switzerland, Australia, etc... predominantly atheist countries top this list, and all the countries at the bottom are highly religious

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report

1: Norway (atheist)
2: Denmark (atheist)
3: Iceland (atheist)
4: Switzerland (atheist)
5: Finland (atheist)
6: Netherlands (atheist)
7: Canada (atheist)
8: New Zealand (atheist/christian)
9: Australia (atheist/christian)
10: Sweden (atheist)
11: Israel (jewish/atheist)
...
14: United States (christian)
...
25: Mexico (christian)
...
37: Saudi Arabia (muslim)
...
151: Rwanda (christian)
152: Syria (muslim)
153: Tanzania (christian)
154: Burundi (christian)
155: Central African Republic (christian)

I get when you call yourself Moloch you believe this crap Maybe people feels satisfied about the economic situation in this country but defently i have lived in the Nehterlands for almost all my life and nooo people are not so happy