Atheism brougth us nothing good!

[Senkuli]

Atheist always want us to believe that our countries are doing so much better now that people are getting less religious!

But all that i see is:
-more depression and less simple happiness
-more organised crime (done by our governments)
-more rudeness
-more stress

What is your idea on this?

I agree with you that atheism is not good for me or the religious community.
If atheist society feels getting everything from their government then they will only find a monotone life governed by their government.
They feel that the state is doing things better than what God created and which God gave to humans, and it could be that atheists or atheist governments feel themselves more than God. In the end they will conform their own thoughts or knowledge as a religion,they will have a desire to control the community or other countries.

[Mometaskers]

Atheism seems to thrive in countries where there is a lot of financial freedom and freedom of expression. Being an atheist in a religious third world country will likely sever you from your delicate family support network. In most first world and developing countries, you can get a basic job and have enough money to live on your own and lead your own atheist lifestyle. The exception I suppose would be countries like China or other communist or ex-communist countries where religion had been oppressed.

In general, the poorer the country, the more religious it is. I can't think of an atheist-majority third-world country. Since the poor need all the support they can get, you won't see them flaunting their atheism and other non-conformities. And in some cases, it would be deadly, like in Pakistan where people would literally behead you on the streets.

[criptix]

@Coincube

Re increased violent and sex crime:

Swedish Christian nationalist would say the cause is mass immigration from sub sahara and middle east muslims.

Re china:

Official numbers are like <3% of the population. (From 1949 until now)
Important is that chinese christianity is just another tool for the chinese communist party to control the population.
The CPC is even appointing the Archbishop for china.

The best example that there exist no western christianity or religious freedom is falung gong.
In 6-7 years they managed to grow to 70 million believers and now the CPC is farming their organs.

[jettaheader]

Fuck all haters, believers and non ones, you just fuck up and ruin your side reputation.

[Nikola95]

Well problem of atheism is that they don't want to listen what other side have to say. And biggest problem about that relation between religion and atheism is that both of them want to convince other side, or random people in their belief.  Just leave everyone to belive in what they want.

[CoinCube]

@Coincube

Re increased violent and sex crime:

Swedish Christian nationalist would say the cause is mass immigration from sub sahara and middle east muslims.

Re china:

Official numbers are like <3% of the population. (From 1949 until now)
Important is that chinese christianity is just another tool for the chinese communist party to control the population.
The CPC is even appointing the Archbishop for china.

The best example that there exist no western christianity or religious freedom is falung gong.
In 6-7 years they managed to grow to 70 million believers and now the CPC is farming their organs.

China is changing blink and you won't recognize the place. The Falung Gong persecution happened in 1999 almost a full generation ago now and I doubt things will play out the same way this time. To stop Christianity in China would require something far beyond what was deployed against Falung Gong it would probably take a 1966 cultural revolution type effort.

Which is not to say that there won't be persecution and oppression of Christians in China. Their most certainly will be but probably not nearly enough to change the long term trajectory of the country. Thats how I think it will play out at any rate.

I would respond to your Swedish Christian nationalist with the observation that mass uncontrolled immigration is a symptom not an ultimate cause. A robust culture would either absorb and convert migrants while suppressing the criminal element or if that was impossible limit the numbers of migrants so it became possible. Since this is not occurring in Sweden we must exam the factors that prevent it from occurring for this ultimately is the cause. Most nationalist of whatever variety believe that race is what determines culture. I believe religion defines culture.  

Chinese Marxism in particular is a flawed and dying religion and even the "Communist Party" in China knows it which is why they only pay it lip service. Lacking true believers I do not think the Party will muster the will to mount a 1966 style suppression campaign. They will likely settle for token measures like this one.

China bans religious beliefs for 88 million people
http://www.christian.org.uk/news/china-bans-religious-beliefs-88-million-people/

The Chinese Government has banned members of the country’s ruling Communist Party from holding any religious beliefs.

An article written by the Wang Zuaon Director of the State Administration for Religious Affairs revealed that all Party members must abandon religion for Marxist atheism or be punished.

It also stated that religious groups should be ‘guided’ by the state in altering their doctrine in order to promote “socialist core values”.

Undermine
Over 88 million people are members of the Communist Party of China (CPC), and many apply to join the Party in order to enjoy better career prospects.

The CPC believes that foreigners have used Christianity and Islam to deliberately spread their political views in China and so undermine the Party, leading Wang Zuaon to introduce the permanent regulations.

He wrote: “Party members should not have religious beliefs, which is a red line for all members”.

Punishment
“Party members should be firm Marxist atheists, obey Party rules and stick to the Party’s faith… they are not allowed to seek value and belief in religion”, he added.

Wang also wrote that Party officials who have a religious faith should be persuaded to give it up, and those who resisted would be punished by the CPC.

Su Wei, a professor at the Party School of the CPC Chongqing Committee responded to Wang’s regulations by referring to Christianity as part of “China’s religious problem”.

Exponential growth
Christianity in China has been accused of being a national security risk, and in the past few years, hundreds of Christian pastors and activists have been arrested.

The international freedom watchdog Freedom House said in March that as many as 100 million people in China are facing “high” or “very high” levels of persecution under Communist rule.

However while religious freedom is under threat, Christianity has been growing exponentially in China.

Academics predict that by 2030 China will have more than 247 million Christians, which would be more than 17 per cent of the projected population.

[Tyrantt]

Well problem of atheism is that they don't want to listen what other side have to say. And biggest problem about that relation between religion and atheism is that both of them want to convince other side, or random people in their belief.  Just leave everyone to belive in what they want.

Atheists tend to think they're above anyone else, anyone who's a person of faith. Most of them just can't stay out of the conversation about religion without bashing it or telling everyone how stupid they are. Tho both of the sides have extremists, but atheists are kind of elitists.

[KitBlash10]

Atheist always want us to believe that our countries are doing so much better now that people are getting less religious!

But all that i see is:
-more depression and less simple happiness
-more organised crime (done by our governments)
-more rudeness
-more stress

What is your idea on this?

Say what? I know most of the worst criminals over the world have one religion, so don't tell stupid things.

[gabmen]

Well problem of atheism is that they don't want to listen what other side have to say. And biggest problem about that relation between religion and atheism is that both of them want to convince other side, or random people in their belief.  Just leave everyone to belive in what they want.

Atheists tend to think they're above anyone else, anyone who's a person of faith. Most of them just can't stay out of the conversation about religion without bashing it or telling everyone how stupid they are. Tho both of the sides have extremists, but atheists are kind of elitists.

I think there will always be extremism with any religion. I'm not an atheist but there are as much christians who bash other religions as well. And that goes for other religions. People who don't have open minds are like that. If we don't put so much stress on any religion and just respect others and their beliefs, we could all be just fine

[jonnybravo0411]

I do not think that religion or atheism can give something good. Bad people are in different religious trends or atheists. It is more important to educate a person, not his religious faith.

[GreenBits]

I do not think that religion or atheism can give something good. Bad people are in different religious trends or atheists. It is more important to educate a person, not his religious faith.

Religious growth is an education. A moral and ethical one

Folks often conflate a religion with its worst adherents. Take Christianity on this board for example. The overwhelming majority of atheist I see are former Christians. They don't object to the message itself, and how could you? When Christianity is done right, it is love, respect and empathy for your fellow man. Like Communism, it looks great on paper (the Bible is made of paper,) the issue is when folks don't follow the message. The hypocrisy turns a lot of folks off of the faith. The fact that there are "bummy" Christians enhances it for me; it tells me the path I walk is necessary, because I need to mitigate those that would cause others suffering.

If Christians acted like the New Testament, what critique, dear atheist, would you have for them? Don't feed the needy? Don't help the sick? Don't turn the other cheek? These are noble ideas.

Don't be mad at Christ. Be mad at people.

[popcorn1]

I do not think that religion or atheism can give something good. Bad people are in different religious trends or atheists. It is more important to educate a person, not his religious faith.

Religious growth is an education. A moral and ethical one

Folks often conflate a religion with its worst adherents. Take Christianity on this board for example. The overwhelming majority of atheist I see are former Christians. They don't object to the message itself, and how could you? When Christianity is done right, it is love, respect and empathy for your fellow man. Like Communism, it looks great on paper (the Bible is made of paper,) the issue is when folks don't follow the message. The hypocrisy turns a lot of folks off of the faith. The fact that there are "bummy" Christians enhances it for me; it tells me the path I walk is necessary, because I need to mitigate those that would cause others suffering.

If Christians acted like the New Testament, what critique, dear atheist, would you have for them? Don't feed the needy? Don't help the sick? Don't turn the other cheek? These are noble ideas.

Don't be mad at Christ. Be mad at people.

Don't be mad at Christ. Be mad at people.
Yes typical answer from a religious dude  ..

I thinks that is what they are already doing being mad at the people and not blaming the religion..
And you want more ..

See you don't realise the trouble you cause by what you say over fairy tales ..

Be mad at the people over religion it's the people not the religion..

So now that can cause many outcomes

Not following the religion  Be mad at people.

Mock my religion   Be mad at people.

It's what you religious folk do  Be mad at people.

You read a book claim it to be the truth then go wacko if anyone disagrees with your idea of how the book should be interpreted when really it's all man made stories to sell a book in the olden days..

Like harry potter in 200 years from now ..
Then we will have the new harry potter testament because no one believes in wizards so just like the old testament got changed to the new testament harry potter will in 200 years..

Why is it if something is wrote in a book it's more true than if it's put on the internet ?..

You show people video evidence off youtube and they claim a book hold more substance 

You can see it come out of the persons mouth on many different videos from many different people
using mobile video phones but still a book hold more substance or a news paper ..

So if it's been wrote down in words on paper it's the truth..
But video evidence is a lie ..

Is a library full of books the truth over the internet holding the truth?..

I believe the internet over the library of books..

[Sithara007]

I do not think that religion or atheism can give something good. Bad people are in different religious trends or atheists. It is more important to educate a person, not his religious faith.

Tell that to the choirboys who were abused by the Christian clerics. Atheism is better than Semitic religions such as Islam and Christianity, which teach their followers to hate anyone who doesn't belong to these religions.

[GreenBits]

I do not think that religion or atheism can give something good. Bad people are in different religious trends or atheists. It is more important to educate a person, not his religious faith.

Religious growth is an education. A moral and ethical one

Folks often conflate a religion with its worst adherents. Take Christianity on this board for example. The overwhelming majority of atheist I see are former Christians. They don't object to the message itself, and how could you? When Christianity is done right, it is love, respect and empathy for your fellow man. Like Communism, it looks great on paper (the Bible is made of paper,) the issue is when folks don't follow the message. The hypocrisy turns a lot of folks off of the faith. The fact that there are "bummy" Christians enhances it for me; it tells me the path I walk is necessary, because I need to mitigate those that would cause others suffering.

If Christians acted like the New Testament, what critique, dear atheist, would you have for them? Don't feed the needy? Don't help the sick? Don't turn the other cheek? These are noble ideas.

Don't be mad at Christ. Be mad at people.

Don't be mad at Christ. Be mad at people.
Yes typical answer from a religious dude  ..

I thinks that is what they are already doing being mad at the people and not blaming the religion..
And you want more ..

See you don't realise the trouble you cause by what you say over fairy tales ..

Be mad at the people over religion it's the people not the religion..

So now that can cause many outcomes

Not following the religion  Be mad at people.

Mock my religion   Be mad at people.

It's what you religious folk do  Be mad at people.

You read a book claim it to be the truth then go wacko if anyone disagrees with your idea of how the book should be interpreted when really it's all man made stories to sell a book in the olden days..

Like harry potter in 200 years from now ..
Then we will have the new harry potter testament because no one believes in wizards so just like the old testament got changed to the new testament harry potter will in 200 years..

Why is it if something is wrote in a book it's more true than if it's put on the internet ?..

You show people video evidence off youtube and they claim a book hold more substance 

You can see it come out of the persons mouth on many different videos from many different people
using mobile video phones but still a book hold more substance or a news paper ..

So if it's been wrote down in words on paper it's the truth..
But video evidence is a lie ..

Is a library full of books the truth over the internet holding the truth?..

I believe the internet over the library of books..

Well consider what you just wrote. I'm not mad at any of the atheist here that continually attack my religion. You and I disagree on a lot of shit, but I still love you. You could come stay at my crib and eat my food. You have done me no harm. Who am I to judge you for your beliefs? My Lord doesn't judge me for my sins, and I am so much less than him.

Why are we mad at those that don't agree with us? I'm usually meh. The opposite of love isn't hate, it's apathy. The things that I do not love are the things that are meaningless to me. So I always question the motivations of those that attack things that don't concern them. I have no opinion about the things I don't care about.

This boils down to faith, bro. I will never be able to explain faith in the unknown to you. It is a measure given to all men; but it withers with disuse.

Show me irrefutable proof if the not existence of God. You can't. As I would have a hard time showing you proof of the opposite.

I've never gone wacko behind defending this. Your life is your choice. Free will and such. I just want you to sit with me in Heaven, so we can talk like this whenever. Thus is the extent of my love for you popcorn, and everyone on this board, you too Moloch. The way you guys talk shows me that because of my religion, you don't have the same empathy for me. you think me a fool, despite my goodwill.

I can accept that. Its life. And it's beautiful, I wouldn't change it or any of you one single bit.

God bless all of you.

[Avametra]

Atheists are much better than for example Muslims who commit terrorist attacks and are bad for women. The world is developing and religion should also develop or die.

[Moloch]

While it is true that there is no definitive atheistic worldview, all atheists share the same fundamental beliefs as core to their personal worldviews. While some want to state that atheism is simply a disbelief in the existence of a god, there really is more to it. Every expression of atheism necessitates at least three additional affirmations:

1. The universe is purely material. It is strictly natural, and there is no such thing as the supernatural (e.g., gods or spiritual forces).

2. The universe is scientific. It is observable, knowable and governed strictly by the laws of physics.

3. The universe is impersonal. It does not a have consciousness or a will, nor is it guided by a consciousness or a will.

Denial of any one of those three affirmations will strike a mortal blow to atheism. Anything and everything that happens in such a universe is meaningless. A tree falls. A young girl is rescued from sexual slavery. A dog barks. A man is killed for not espousing the national religion. These are all actions that can be known and explained but never given any meaning or value.

A good atheist — that is, a consistent atheist — recognizes this dilemma. His only reasonable conclusion is to reject objective meaning and morality. Thus, calling him “good” in the moral sense is nonsensical. There is no morally good atheist, because there really is no objective morality. At best, morality is the mass delusion shared by humanity, protecting us from the cold sting of despair.

Why do christians think they know so much about atheists? (not that it should be difficult to understand a lack of belief... but you just don't get it)

You realize agnostics are also atheists... right? (so much for your "3 additional affirmations")

As for your point about atheists not being good, I object

Atheists are the only "good" people... Atheists are good people because they want society to be a better place for everyone... Atheists realize the benefit of being good over evil... Atheists are good because they love humanity

Christians are only good because they fear god... they are not acting out of love, but acting from fear of retribution from a non-existent sky-god... this is not being "good", it is being "selfish"... Christians act for selfish reasons, so they can go to heaven, so god won't punish them...

Atheists have no god... Atheists are good people because they are compassionate... not because they are selfish and afraid of what some sky-god might do to them

If You’re Only Moral Because of God, “I Don’t Want To Know You”

tl;dr - If you are only moral because you are afraid of hell... you don't understand morality... morality comes from philosophy and an understanding of civilized society... not dictated by some 3000 year old desert dwelling tribe claiming a sky-god told them so

[jaibster]

How can they live in this miserable world without believing in a diety to look up to and seek help?

[CoinCube]

While it is true that there is no definitive atheistic worldview, all atheists share the same fundamental beliefs as core to their personal worldviews. While some want to state that atheism is simply a disbelief in the existence of a god, there really is more to it. Every expression of atheism necessitates at least three additional affirmations:

1. The universe is purely material. It is strictly natural, and there is no such thing as the supernatural (e.g., gods or spiritual forces).

2. The universe is scientific. It is observable, knowable and governed strictly by the laws of physics.

3. The universe is impersonal. It does not a have consciousness or a will, nor is it guided by a consciousness or a will.

Denial of any one of those three affirmations will strike a mortal blow to atheism. Anything and everything that happens in such a universe is meaningless. A tree falls. A young girl is rescued from sexual slavery. A dog barks. A man is killed for not espousing the national religion. These are all actions that can be known and explained but never given any meaning or value.

A good atheist — that is, a consistent atheist — recognizes this dilemma. His only reasonable conclusion is to reject objective meaning and morality. Thus, calling him “good” in the moral sense is nonsensical. There is no morally good atheist, because there really is no objective morality. At best, morality is the mass delusion shared by humanity, protecting us from the cold sting of despair.

Why do christians think they know so much about atheists? (not that it should be difficult to understand a lack of belief... but you just don't get it)

You realize agnostics are also atheists... right? (so much for your "3 additional affirmations")

As for your point about atheists not being good, I object

Atheists are the only "good" people... Atheists are good people because they want society to be a better place for everyone... Atheists realize the benefit of being good over evil... Atheists are good because they love humanity

bcnaranjo I am quoting your text in it's entirety because it truly strikes to the heart of the matter. In my experience very few atheists are willing to examine the logical and metaphysical underpinnings of their world view and its consequences.  

I would, however, argue that your points #1 and #3 are the more important ones. Belief that the universe is scientific is not incompatible with a belief in God.

Moloch you once again refuse to engage in any deeper analysis of your views. Belief in God changes how we live our lives not only because of the belief but also as a consequence of what logically follows. bcnaranjo explains these well and I recommend you reread what he wrote.

No one is saying that there are not many good atheists. However without God there is no objective good at all. This is a conclusion that a rational atheist will reach if he is willing to follow his beliefs to their logical conclusions.

[dali_masmoudi]

Not really nothing, but taught as that we have to learn more about what,we are believing ...
For example, you can found someone who is very religious but he don't understand well his religion.
Athesiests are working more on brain and learning.

[eagleman]

They are only telling their point of views but they don't want to hear others opinion. It's funny to see these type of "intelligent" people and says bad about religions but in the end they are the ones who are hurting the feeling of others.