Making it public: I have moved the disputed 643.2771 BTC into an escrow account

[Horkabork]

Jesus Christ, people. We still don't know enough information to take sides on this matter. I don't know enough facts to say that Kevin did or did not do anything wrong.

Sure, I know enough about Mt. Gox's behavior of either actively lying about or being ignorant of the security breach. I also blame them for not having a circuit breaker, which would be like 2 lines of code. I also blame them for a multitude of issues that have come up, such as accounts that don't even have email addresses associated, the lack of trading logs, no password strength enforcement, no address locks, no stop losses, and generally crappy communication for a place that can pull down $13k a day in fees.

But this is a separate matter. Right or wrong, I don't know. I'm saying that I don't think anyone is thinking straight if they're taking definitive sides on what happened with Kevin, specifically, and what should be done about it. We've seen scant evidence in favor of either claim.

However, Kevin, in realizing how his own actions could be perceived, has done a smart thing here by putting coins in escrow. It doesn't really do anything in terms of providing evidence, but it does indicate that he really is willing to let the other parties investigate to clear his name.

That's a class act. In fact, because so many people feel like this issue will impact their trading and trust of Mt. Gox, an investigation does need to be done by an impartial party with a neutral arbitrator. I do know this: Mt. Gox coming to their own conclusions and then announcing and attempting to enforce them is only sufficient if their conclusion is in clearing Kevin's name. I'll restate that: Mt. Gox can only possibly relieve Kevin of guilt, not reliably prove it. If they do investigate and believe that Kevin is guilty of something or should return the coins, then they need to then involve a third party.
You can't be both the plaintiff and the judge. You can, at best, only act to withdraw your accusation.

Mt. Gox should know that they are not perceived as being impartial, let alone trustable right now. It's akin to paypal's famous habit of pretending to arbitrate disputes, but usually just settling their own favor (freezing funds) or going with whichever account-holder brings them the most business.

Now, because we all know Kevin's name and what should have been private details, it really is up to Mt. Gox to see this through publicly. My guess is that, in one month, Kevin will have his coins and Mt. Gox will neither have accused Kevin of anything nor absolved him. They'll just have hoped that this quietly will have gone away.

That is not acceptable. If he gets to keep the coins, it needs to be confirmed by Mt. Gox that they will not pursue him in the future.

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[Anduril]

We still don't know enough information to take sides on this matter.

Good advice.

[TheGer]

Keep the coins plain and simple.  MTGox knew they should have updated their system well before hand and did nothing.  They should bite the bullet on this one. 

And if on the small chance this dude had some inside knowledge on the thing and reaped the reward?  Well, Karma is a bitch anyway and what goes around comes around.

What's done is done move on.

[Capitan]

Although I am new to the community and been only a Bitcoin follower and trader for a week now I have analyzed and studied many articles and papers about Bitcoin. I follow the market closely and I have ready dozens of articles, threads, and comments relating to the Mt. Gox incident. As a web developer and using my logic my personal opinion is that Mt. Gox fucked up big time when we look at their website security and how they are handling this. Although we can't verify if the account with the 500k Bitcoins really existed or not does not matter when you look at the dispute between Mt. Gox and Kevin.

So far Kevin has done nothing wrong, just like anyone would do in this situation and tried to buy as many Bitcoins as possible for .01 cents and than tried to withdraw them as fast as possible before the market and Mt. Gox crashed. If I had 3000 dollars on my Mt. Gox account I would have done the same freaking thing. Some people argue that it's impossible that Kevin was able to place a bid after the hacking started as the website was to laggy or down. This is different for every PC and totally depends on the connection, DNS, location, server, etc. A website may be down or slower for someone than for someone else.

If is telling the truth I believe that he should be allowed to keep the Bitcoins he legally bought even if the account with the 500k Bitcoins was hacked. In a real exchange the same thing would happen. An exchange cant revert hours of trades back just because one account got hacked. No matter how much money there is on it. If Mt. Gox reverts all the traders because of this than I want to see them do the same thing when my account gets hacked and my 10 Bitcoins get sold.

10 BTC getting stolen due to a hack is not the same as someone hacking in and crashing the entire market. I support the reversal of the broken trades. The whole thing was a situation created by a criminal. All the trades that took place after the hack were based on the unnatural prices created by a criminal crashing the market.

[Capitan]

Also, Kevin should just return the bitcoins, if it can be proven that MtGox was hacked. Why have we not heard from the owner of the account that was hacked? Has MtGox mentioned anything about contacting that person? If not that seems super fishy.

But assuming that MtGox were telling the truth, the right thing for Kevin to do would be to return the Bitcoins. He bought something that was stolen from someone else, and sold at a price much lower than its market value. Anyone who thinks he has a right to own those is not thinking.

But the problem is that one cannot simply assume Gox is telling the truth. And if they were in the right they would be pursuing him for the withdrawn bitcoins. The only reason they would not pursue him for it is because they have something to cover up. Whatever they are covering up may or may not be related to the hack&crash. They might have other (unrelated) reasons for not wanting law enforcement's eyes on their operations.

I haven't read any statement by kevin saying why he doesn't return them (he may have written that, I just haven't seen it if he has). If he is not returning them because he wants proof that there was a hack, then I support his decision. Any other reason for not returning them doesn't make sense to me.

[opticbit]

should have filled my penny dish, instead of using escrow to hold them.

14KF98JRK9tEMM22eQU4URBPZykQgaNmHP
http://blockexplorer.com/a/2NuwvUdxKi

I'm sure people will only take .01 btc at a time, when theres no limits

Just let me know before you start the transfer ;

[Phil21]

I haven't read any statement by kevin saying why he doesn't return them (he may have written that, I just haven't seen it if he has). If he is not returning them because he wants proof that there was a hack, then I support his decision. Any other reason for not returning them doesn't make sense to me.

Who is he supposed to return them to?  A currently completely owned MtGox system?  The original "hacked account owner" who has not been identified?  Someone else?  I know if I held them and wanted to give them back I'd have no clue who the rightful owner is at this time.

That seems pretty key to me

[dana.powers]

MtGox will revert his 250k purchase, Kevin will keep the 600 withdrawn, and MtGox will take Kevin's $3000 from rollback as collateral.  Kevin makes out with 600 BTC at market price - $3000.  $5/BTC to break-even.

[imperi]

MtGox will revert his 250k purchase, Kevin will keep the 600 withdrawn, and MtGox will take Kevin's $3000 from rollback as collateral.  Kevin makes out with 600 BTC at market price - $3000.  $5/BTC to break-even.

I love the lurkers who silently observe everything that's going on, and occasionally come out of the darkness to report news before others.

[dana.powers]

heh. merely a prediction.

[malditonuke]

it's a pity the bitcoin community hasn't yet sprouted arbitration and insurance services.

[imperi]

it's a pity the bitcoin community hasn't yet sprouted arbitration and insurance services.

The community is basically brand new. Did you know 75% of the forum posts are since early April?

It's a pity I don't have a holodeck yet. Just a pity.

[myrkul]

it's a pity the bitcoin community hasn't yet sprouted arbitration and insurance services.

Agreed.

[malditonuke]

it's a pity the bitcoin community hasn't yet sprouted arbitration and insurance services.

It's a pity I don't have a holodeck yet. Just a pity.

cuz with a virtual girlfriend you wouldn't post douche comments?

[Tasty Champa]

calling this guy a thief is way overboard.
what is wrong with you people?  
=bipolar?

it's a volatile market you fucking stooges, everyone knows this, it's exactly why we are even on the exchange!

IT'S FUCKING EXCITING!!!!!!!!
it's better than porn, icecream and videogames, you know you thrive on this shit!

This guy did EXACTLY as any one of us would have done in that position, he just beat us to it. Like a Boss.
No one knew what was really going on during that 15 minutes, except undisclosed parties and whoever was awake at Mt. Gox.

we all thought it was business as usual.

If you disagree with that statement then I ask you this:
Why did you not rally them to rollback trades on LULZBOAT DAY???

answer = business as usual, "BFD."

I remember that day, i lost 6 bitcoins, I'm not mad, the consensus across the board was:
Get the fuck out of the way when the LULZBOAT is sailing, NEWBS.

** If I hurt anyone's feelings because of this post, you probably deserved it.
Fact. Only reason so many people were on Mt Gox was because everyone else was.

Stop playing the game or stop calling this guy a thief.

stupid mob mentality.

all this sillyness is a headache.

and I still haven't gotten my answer as to why trade charges were doubled during the weekend.

/end of line
bitches

[Horkabork]

it's a pity the bitcoin community hasn't yet sprouted arbitration and insurance services.

There is arbitration and, sometimes, options offers in IRC. There's even a #bitcoin-court channel.

[malditonuke]

it's a pity the bitcoin community hasn't yet sprouted arbitration and insurance services.

There is arbitration and, sometimes, options offers in IRC. There's even a #bitcoin-court channel.

I'll have to check that out.  ty

[myrkul]

it's a pity the bitcoin community hasn't yet sprouted arbitration and insurance services.

There is arbitration and, sometimes, options offers in IRC. There's even a #bitcoin-court channel.

I'll have to check that out.  ty

FWIW, I also just offered my services in the 'Selling' forum. Donno how many hits I'll get, though.

[nhodges]

You have 100% claim to those coins. If they were operating as a financial exchange, they should have had similar safeguards to REAL financial exchanges that prevents someone from placing ludicrous buy orders that end up getting filled.

[Capitan]

I haven't read any statement by kevin saying why he doesn't return them (he may have written that, I just haven't seen it if he has). If he is not returning them because he wants proof that there was a hack, then I support his decision. Any other reason for not returning them doesn't make sense to me.

Who is he supposed to return them to?  A currently completely owned MtGox system?  The original "hacked account owner" who has not been identified?  Someone else?  I know if I held them and wanted to give them back I'd have no clue who the rightful owner is at this time.

That seems pretty key to me

I was thinking they'd be returned to Gox, as Gox would need them to reverse all the broken trades. Gox will eventually come to a point where after they've reversed 99% of the broken trades, there will be some missing $ and BTC due to withdrawals (like Kevin's) preventing them from reaching 100% reversal. They might end up having to plug those holes with their own money to just leave a few trades unreversed I guess.