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Author Topic: Bitcoin - powered by greed?  (Read 4483 times)
Mike Christ
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May 27, 2013, 08:59:59 AM
 #41

Aren't all economies more or less powered by greed lol. Aren't humans powered by greed? Without greed I doubt much would be going on lol

Well, we could always look into the life of a stoner for an example of that Tongue

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May 27, 2013, 09:35:15 AM
 #42

Money is the barometer of a society's virtue...
...Take your choice. There is no other.

And your time is running out.


No citation?

It's Ayn Rand. In a rare moment of somewhat coherent thought...

I'm so sick of this "greed is good" meme. A child's first experience with greed is usually eating too many sweets - they get sick and don't do it again.
The whole reason we're here on this earth is because we cooperate and depend on the "kindness of strangers". Greed invariably ends badly and
causes great misery to those on the receiving end of it.
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May 27, 2013, 02:53:35 PM
 #43

Money is the barometer of a society's virtue...
...Take your choice. There is no other.

And your time is running out.


No citation?

It's Ayn Rand. In a rare moment of somewhat coherent thought...

I'm so sick of this "greed is good" meme. A child's first experience with greed is usually eating too many sweets - they get sick and don't do it again.
The whole reason we're here on this earth is because we cooperate and depend on the "kindness of strangers". Greed invariably ends badly and
causes great misery to those on the receiving end of it.
You sure about that?  Have you just equated under the term "greed", the actions of a child and the actions of adults running organizations and/or institutions, then correlated the results based on the child's experience?

Secondly, fyi, Rand did not say "Greed is good."  The above quote refers to the rebuttal by Rand of an assertion that "Money is the root of all evil", cast in fiction in Atlas Shrugged.  Even when Rand asserts that acting in one's own self interest is good, that...applied to the child would indicate the child should not eat so many sweets.

I think what may confuse the entire issue is the various definitions and uses of the term "greed."
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May 28, 2013, 07:15:41 AM
 #44


You sure about that?  Have you just equated under the term "greed", the actions of a child and the actions of adults running organizations and/or institutions, then correlated the results based on the child's experience?

Secondly, fyi, Rand did not say "Greed is good."  The above quote refers to the rebuttal by Rand of an assertion that "Money is the root of all evil", cast in fiction in Atlas Shrugged.  Even when Rand asserts that acting in one's own self interest is good, that...applied to the child would indicate the child should not eat so many sweets.

I think what may confuse the entire issue is the various definitions and uses of the term "greed."


OK, semantics get tiresome pretty quickly for me. Also I did not attribute "greed is good" to Ayn Rand, rather the long quote that Gordonium pasted without attribution.

From wiki: greed = "an inordinate desire to possess wealth, goods, or objects of abstract value with the intention to keep it for one's self, far beyond the dictates of basic survival and comfort".

Obviously my analogy was to point out that a child has to learn not to take more than they need. I don't think it's much of a stretch to apply the analogy to the rich/greedy?  Is it good that we have people who could spend $100,000 a minute and still not be broke by the time they die?

I would think that greed is inherently counter to self-interest, so let's not bother trying to equate those terms.
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May 28, 2013, 08:39:45 AM
 #45



OK, semantics get tiresome pretty quickly for me. Also I did not attribute "greed is good" to Ayn Rand, rather the long quote that Gordonium pasted without attribution.

From wiki: greed = "an inordinate desire to possess wealth, goods, or objects of abstract value with the intention to keep it for one's self, far beyond the dictates of basic survival and comfort".

Obviously my analogy was to point out that a child has to learn not to take more than they need. I don't think it's much of a stretch to apply the analogy to the rich/greedy?  Is it good that we have people who could spend $100,000 a minute and still not be broke by the time they die?

I would think that greed is inherently counter to self-interest, so let's not bother trying to equate those terms.

Basic survival and comfort is a pretty low bar.  Do you need your TV for survival.  Your playstation?  All those games?  etc, etc...

Have we got an objective definition of what's greedy or is this all just people's opinions?  Or are we saying that anyone with creature comforts beyond their survival needs is greedy?  Which would then equate to a large percentage of the population.
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May 29, 2013, 01:56:25 AM
 #46


You sure about that?  Have you just equated under the term "greed", the actions of a child and the actions of adults running organizations and/or institutions, then correlated the results based on the child's experience?

Secondly, fyi, Rand did not say "Greed is good."  The above quote refers to the rebuttal by Rand of an assertion that "Money is the root of all evil", cast in fiction in Atlas Shrugged.  Even when Rand asserts that acting in one's own self interest is good, that...applied to the child would indicate the child should not eat so many sweets.

I think what may confuse the entire issue is the various definitions and uses of the term "greed."


OK, semantics get tiresome pretty quickly for me. Also I did not attribute "greed is good" to Ayn Rand, rather the long quote that Gordonium pasted without attribution.

From wiki: greed = "an inordinate desire to possess wealth, goods, or objects of abstract value with the intention to keep it for one's self, far beyond the dictates of basic survival and comfort".

Obviously my analogy was to point out that a child has to learn not to take more than they need. I don't think it's much of a stretch to apply the analogy to the rich/greedy?  Is it good that we have people who could spend $100,000 a minute and still not be broke by the time they die?

I would think that greed is inherently counter to self-interest, so let's not bother trying to equate those terms.

Sure, in the sense that adults with poor impulse control are going to be failures in life - that impulse control can be hunger, sex, anger, any of a number of things.
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May 29, 2013, 02:25:36 AM
 #47

What would motivate a person to act except perceived benefit?

From a biological perspective it's not so much the individual, but the genetic structures promoting themselves.

The ultimate greed is harmony.

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May 29, 2013, 08:09:19 PM
Last edit: May 29, 2013, 09:25:03 PM by Spendulus
 #48

What would motivate a person to act except perceived benefit?

From a biological perspective it's not so much the individual, but the genetic structures promoting themselves.

The ultimate greed is harmony.
There's a sci fi short story...

Once upon a time a race of beings living on a heavy metal planet.  They were short, squat creatures but with nice little villages and families, and who collect and treasure and trade a very heavy metal that glows in the dark.  

Plutonium.  

They had a saying, passed on from generation to generation, as everything was, because they had no written language.  The saying was "Don't be greedy."

One day the head creature of a family told the family they were going to collect the glowing metal.  They would collect it and save it.  He explained to them what saving was.  He said they would become very wealthy.  

Instead of trading they started doing without.  Then they found they could take their metal bricks home and put them with the increasingly large pile in the family room.  

Soon they found they could go outside at night, the entire neighborhood was lit up with the light from their house.  Then they would make approval gestures to each other.  Others, in nearby huts, made gestures of disapproval.  Some would not communicate with them at all.  

Some thought there was something very wrong, and very evil, with a hut that shone light a bright light in the night.  While the other creatures' huts, the good creatures, showed only a faint glow.

But the miser's hut got brighter, and brighter still.  When would it stop?  Soon, even at mid day, the hut was glowing brightly.

.......

The head of a clan looked at the creatures in the hut and told them about trading goods for the glowing metal, and then said "Don't be greedy."
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May 29, 2013, 10:03:47 PM
 #49

There's no moral to that story. Just some people being upset without explaining why.

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June 01, 2013, 01:22:26 PM
 #50

"For lack of a better term"
Until Kropotkin strolls along with his Mutual Aid as a factor in Evolution.
Then we have a better term.

Wit all my solidarities,
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June 01, 2013, 03:50:16 PM
 #51

"For lack of a better term"
Until Kropotkin strolls along with his Mutual Aid as a factor in Evolution.
Then we have a better term.
Except "mutual aid" does not convey the self-interest inherent in human nature, the desire to better one's self.

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June 07, 2013, 03:33:03 AM
 #52

So I read that bitcoin is now the most powerful distributed computing project in history.

I find it ironic that the cure for cancer and the search for extra terrestrial intelligence are lower on the scale of human priority than currency.  Not that I don't think bitcoin is good, or that greed is necessarily bad.

Is the success of bitcoin based on greed?

Forgive my ignorance, but of what use could this kind of processing power be in the search for extraterrestrial life?  Or the cure for cancer?  Is this a fair characterization of bitcoin?  Don't worry, I'm not getting upset over here, lol.  Just saying.  Hashing doesn't make light any faster, or diminish the vastness of the universe; or does it  Roll Eyes

Besides they're here already man  Cheesy

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June 07, 2013, 06:47:23 AM
 #53

Yes, Bitcoin is off Course Powered By Greed - I mean Only "The Rich Elite" Can afford the Proper Hardware To mine It!
But... I Personally Am against greed(It Sickens Me) It is what drives Evil People to do the things they do. I'm NOT saying
we should all hold hands and Sing "Amazing Grace" but still... There Are More "Attractive" Motivations, I'm Sure.
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June 07, 2013, 07:36:34 AM
 #54

Yes, Bitcoin is off Course Powered By Greed - I mean Only "The Rich Elite" Can afford the Proper Hardware To mine It!
But... I Personally Am against greed(It Sickens Me) It is what drives Evil People to do the things they do. I'm NOT saying
we should all hold hands and Sing "Amazing Grace" but still... There Are More "Attractive" Motivations, I'm Sure.

Tsk.... Greed is just self-interest. Without greed, people would be starving left and right, because they weren't self-interested enough to eat.

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June 07, 2013, 02:10:05 PM
 #55

Yes, Bitcoin is off Course Powered By Greed - I mean Only "The Rich Elite" Can afford the Proper Hardware To mine It!
But... I Personally Am against greed(It Sickens Me) It is what drives Evil People to do the things they do. I'm NOT saying
we should all hold hands and Sing "Amazing Grace" but still... There Are More "Attractive" Motivations, I'm Sure.
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Secondhand GPU rigs, worldwide local community pools, and cheap ASIC thumbdrives will change the game, imo.
I see no reason why all Apple products shouldn't be built with crappy plastic spork standard LTC miners included.

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June 09, 2013, 10:42:38 AM
 #56

Yes, Bitcoin is off Course Powered By Greed - I mean Only "The Rich Elite" Can afford the Proper Hardware To mine It!
But... I Personally Am against greed(It Sickens Me) It is what drives Evil People to do the things they do. I'm NOT saying
we should all hold hands and Sing "Amazing Grace" but still... There Are More "Attractive" Motivations, I'm Sure.

Tsk.... Greed is just self-interest. Without greed, people would be starving left and right, because they weren't self-interested enough to eat.
Then greed isn't so bad as everyone is talking about.

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June 10, 2013, 08:46:18 AM
 #57

Yes, Bitcoin is off Course Powered By Greed - I mean Only "The Rich Elite" Can afford the Proper Hardware To mine It!
But... I Personally Am against greed(It Sickens Me) It is what drives Evil People to do the things they do. I'm NOT saying
we should all hold hands and Sing "Amazing Grace" but still... There Are More "Attractive" Motivations, I'm Sure.

Tsk.... Greed is just self-interest. Without greed, people would be starving left and right, because they weren't self-interested enough to eat.
Then greed isn't so bad as everyone is talking about.
Nope, sure isn't.

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June 10, 2013, 01:40:17 PM
 #58

SO... It's OK?! For Men Like Jacob Zuma and Adolf Hitler to do the Things they do/did?! (It Was/IS, After All... Motivated By Greed.)
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June 10, 2013, 06:16:22 PM
 #59

SO... It's OK?! For Men Like Jacob Zuma and Adolf Hitler to do the Things they do/did?! (It Was/IS, After All... Motivated By Greed.)

It was just as ok for them to do what they did while being motivated by greed, as for Mother Theresa to take care of those sick people when she was motivated for greed, too. Except those you mentioned were more motivated by greed for power, while Theresa was motivated by greed for warm feelings, and heaven.

It's not greed, it's what you are greedy for, based on how screwed up your mind is.

Was it ok for greedy people like Bill Gates, Linus Trovalds, Allan Turing, Steve Jobs, and Steve Wosniak to pursue their greed for money and/or fame, just so you can use the technology they brought into existence to complain about how greed it bad?

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June 10, 2013, 10:40:19 PM
 #60

It's not at all greed. Any Money fills 3 functions:

1) Unit of account
2) Store of value
3) Medium of exchange

Money simply means that I can sell my old camera then maybe buy some pizza with some of the proceeds vs trying to find someone will accept a camera for a pizza, and then give me something that is worth the camera-the pizza for change. Money fulfills a function that allows an economy to work to some degree of efficiency.  

Nice concise summary of the function of money but I would add to this concept by saying that money represents time. We spend time to acquire ____________(write anything.) But even this is not quite right, the true equation is

money = |(life SPENT)*value|
were;

       (life SPENT)  is equal to Life Span - {Life Span + [years:months:days:hours:minutes:seconds of work done to acquire ____________(write anything.)]}

                   and value is equal to (what we are willing to take as compensation for life SPENT that will never be experience again).

Therefore we get this function for greed (if we define greed as purely a moral nagative acquaintances (i.e. selfish action without any real positive or intended benefit for others beyond ones inner circle of acquaintances),
Greed(x) = [someone elses |(life SPENT)*value|x / [your |(life SPENT)*value|]

were;
                
x is equal to unfair compensation for someone elses |(life SPENT)*value|
OR
an unfair advantage to acquire ____________(write anything) that is used with disregard or contempt for someone else

Greed is not necessarily intentional, it can happen over time and catch an individual unaware. Yet once at the point of being greedy it is hard to stop because of the human instinct for self preservation and resource protection.

I kind of cover this in this post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=228120.0

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