The Biggist Threat To Decentralized Crypto-Currency And The Bitcoin Ideology

[JuenoMT]

Hello fellow MineCoinians,

      I am a true believer in the pure and honest morality of freedom and even though I am fairly new to the crypto-currency community I am very excited about the ultimate potential of the BTCitcoin ideology. Though I hold no religious theology as true and absolute, I do believe that man has, over the eons, collected a great deal of wisdom and that wisdom is most often found in the various religious text of history. One of the most quoted religious phrases from the hebrew and christian bible is that 'money is the root of all evil.' You most likely have heard this phrase many times before, but that phrase does not exist. What is actually written is that 'the LOVE of money is the root of all evil.' It is this fragment of ancestrial wisdom that I wish to bring to light so as to address the logic behind my assertion. Decentralization, the very foundation of the Bitcoin ideology, is at serious risk of annialation.

      First and foremost I want to be honest about what brought me to this moment in my life. I am a college student studing for a double major (computer enginering and physics) and working towards an eventual PHD. Because of past mistakes I have serious financial trouble so holding a job wouldn't be worth it after creditors and uncle Sam take their cut from my paycheck. I was searching online for a way to make an income that would not take to much time away from my studies when I came across bitcointalk.org. I immediately downloaded and installed bitcoin-qt and the bitminter client and fired up my GTX690. After some days passed it became apparent that it was going to take awhile to make very much money at all so I started to research my options. This research of course revealed the world of FPGA mining rigs and the latest holy grail of miners... the ASICs rig. At that point I became very discouraged, not so much because FPGA and ASICs hardware was too expensive and out of reach, but that FPGA and ASICs hardware was too expensive and out of reach for me in my situation. This fact is the critical link that enduced my awarness of the major point I wish to make in this article.

     I did alot of brainstorming trying to figure out a way to improve my situation and I came to one inevitable conclusion, I cannot do it alone. The best option I could imagine was to set up a special mining pool just for raising funds to build/purchase an ASICs mining farm soley to provide all the mining participants in the pool with their own ASICs rigs. This is another key to my argument, as I conducted my research on mining pools I became highly aware of the negative impact that a scarce supply of ASIC mining hardware will have.

     There will always be disparity between classes in wealth, thats just the nature of life. Bitcoin mining has offered a more level playing field because with careful planning and proper financial structuring an individual could start a small mining venture and grow that effort and diligence into operating rigs that have a respectful hashrates. ASICs technology threatens the balance that has exists untile now because it is disruptive to this level playing field. Those who can afford to pay a premium to adopt ASICs hardware early have such a massive hashing advantage that even the advantages of the best FPGA setup will rapidly evaporate as difficulty levels rise at a sudo exponential rate. This leaves the FPGA miners scrambling for extra FPGA units and trying to squeeze out every last drop of effency from their FPGA setup. The run on ASICs and FPGAs raises their prices and causes an increasingly diminished supply of ASICS and FPGA units.

     GPU miners tend to be the types of people that have limited resources, dual purposing by using their rigs for example; gaming and mining, or are trying to earn enough coin to upgrade to better mining rigs. Humble GPU mining can still be (to an ever decreasing extent) vaible for some miners and a few short months ago had pretty decent hashrates but not for much longer. The GPU miners are rapidly being left out in the deep, cold emptiness of crypto-mining space with warp drives that are failing because of a quantum shift in the alternate laws of mining physics.

     GPU miners are further disparaged by the scarcity and rising prices of FPGA and new ASIC hardware.  GPU miners generally cannot afford or cannot aquire the hardware to upgrade. This furthers the class divide between GPU miners and those who can afford to pay a premium and adopt ASICs hardware early and the FPGA miners who are able to keep up and eventually transition to ASICs hardware. By the time the few remaining GPU miners are able to upgrade, many of them may never be able to catch up, mostly due to the hardware requirements making mining feasible have continued to increase at a sudo exponential rate without their participation. To further the STAR TREK analogy, these straggling GPU miners will be droped from the warp conduit simply because they ran out of antimatter while trying to catch up to bigger, faster and more advanced starships leaving them disparagingly adrift forever in the sameness of space as the disenfranchised GPU miners that preceded them.

     This is the type of situation that has historically given rise to desperate levels of poverty in ordinary societies, it is simple economics coupled with human self protectionism. A digital future is our worlds destiny and whether or not bitcoin will survive far into that future is irrelevant, but the conduct of the bitcoin community will greatly influence the nature of humanities destiny within that future and is instrumental in laying the foundation for what kind of society humanities future is built on. So how we, the bitcoin community, behave during this transitional shift has profound significance for the quality of life of future generations. The question I pose to you is this; are we, at this profound and criticle moment in history, going to perpetuate the blind sins of the past because of short sighted self preservationizm and greed or are we going to create a revolution in the human condition for the benifit of all of man.

     The core principle of Bitcoin ideology is the decentralization of currency, and for what pupose? We all know the answer to this question. It is because we all know the evil that men drunk with power will do to his very own blood let alone what he would do to you. But what do you think it means if crypto-coin mining becomes just another resource that only rich corporations can afford to harvest? How different do you think that this situation will be from the way things are now, or the way things have always been? Once a viable crypto-currency is embedded into a culture it becomes no different than any other essential resource and is subject to the same jurisdictions. If crypto-mining is only available to an elite group of wealthy individuals, then it becomes subject to the concerns of the elite. History shows us that elitist tend to be unfair, greedy self preservationist who are susceptible to and often the very architects of political pressure. Ask yourself this question and answer yourself honestly. If you had invested years of your life mining a substantial amount of bitcoin wealth and suddenly you find yourself faced with the decision to either protect the principles behind Bitcoins Ideology and loosing all the wealth you had worked so long to acquire or forsaking the ideology of Bitcoin and keeping all your acquired wealth, minus some taxes and fees, knowing that you'll likely live well the rest of your life, what would YOU do? Again, history shows what most people would do, its a simple matter of self preservationizm. This is why decentralization is so critical.
    
     I think we all agree that we do not want the situation to get to that point, but that is the course it is presently taking and only together can we stop this decent of such a noble endeavor. So what is it that we can do? In many respects the solution is simple in concept, its the execution thats more challenging. The hardest element to overcome is at the core of the human instinct to survive, and that is the instinct of self preservation. This instinct is of course very strong and because human beings are intellectual creatures this instinct is often triggered when our ideas or sense of self are in intellectual danger even though our bodies or lifes may not be. This is the major cause of human irrational behavior. So for the sole sake of logic it stands to reason that if smaller and smaller groups continue to control larger and larger portions of a finite pool of resources then you either must exponentially increase the quantity of the reasources or you must equalize the method of gathering the resources to a broader group of people. Fortunately in this case the resource is a fabrication of man.

     So with that being said, lets open this up for discussion...  I release it to the floor...

________________________________

The bureaucratic mentality is the only constant in the universe.
-Dr. McCoy, Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home

[bitzox]

The easiest solution to your problem are the pass through shares and mining pools available for sale on one of the bitcoin stock exchanges. You can be a part of a mining pool or gain a share in a mining company for a very small investment and when you have enough you will be allowed to vote on the key issues for that security.

If you look at the distribution of blocks right now it is clear that their is a fairly good distribution of mining power. Unfortunately your late arrival to the game makes it impractical for you to start mining without a significant capital investment. As you said this is the way of the world and if you want to get exposure to mining their are still ways to do it, just not through direct personal investment.

[Rassah]

You SERIOUSLY need to spend much more time in the Economics/Politics section of this forum. You have a lot to learn. This was a very long and very thought out post, and you should be proud of it, but there are just so many misconceptions in it regarding the way people and markets work that it would take for ever to address them all. Sorry.

[bitzox]

You SERIOUSLY need to spend much more time in the Economics/Politics section of this forum. You have a lot to learn. This was a very long and very thought out post, and you should be proud of it, but there are just so many misconceptions in it regarding the way people and markets work that it would take for ever to address them all. Sorry.

This too

[kodo]

Hello fellow MineCoinians,

      I am a true believer in the pure and honest morality of freedom and even though I am fairly new to the crypto-currency community, for this reason I am very excited about the ultimate potential of the Bitcoin ideology. Though I hold no religious theology as true and absolute, I do believe that man has, over the eons, collected a great deal of wisdom and that wisdom is most of often found in the various religious text of history. One of the most quoted religious phrases from the hebrew and christian bible is that 'money is the root of all evil.' You most likely have heard this phrase many times before, but that phrase does not exist. What is actually written is that 'the LOVE of money is the root of all evil.' It is this fragment of ancestrial wisdom that I wish to bring to lite so as to address the logic behind my assertion. Decentralization, the very foundation of the Bitcoin ideology, is at serious risk of annialation.

      First and foremost I want to be honest about what brought me to this moment in my life. I am a college student studing for a double major (computer enginering and physics) and working towards an eventual PHD. Because of past mistakes I have serious financial trouble so holding a job wouldn't be worth it after creditors and uncle Sam take their cut from my paycheck. I was searching online for a way to make an income that would not take to much time away from my studies when I came across bitcointalk.org. I immediately downloaded and installed bitcoin-qt and the bitminter client and fired up my GTX690. After some days passed it became apparent that it was going to take awhile to make very much money at all so I started to research my options. This research of course revealed the world of FPGA mining rigs and the latest holy grail of miners... the ASICs rig. At that point I became very discouraged, not so much because FPGA and ASICs hardware was too expensive and out of reach, but that FPGA and ASICs hardware was too expensive and out of reach for me in my situation. This fact is the critical link that enduced my awarness of the major point I wish to make in this article.

     I did alot of brainstorming trying to figure out a way to improve my situation and I came to one inevitable conclusion, I cannot do it alone. The best option I could imagine was to set up a special mining pool just for raising funds to build/purchase an ASICs mining farm soley to provide all the mining participants in the pool with their own ASICs rigs. This is another key to my argument, as I conducted my research on mining pools I became highly aware of the negative impact that a scarce supply of ASIC mining hardware will have.

     There will always be disparity between classes in wealth, thats just the nature of life. Bitcoin mining has offered a more level playing field because with careful planing and proper financial structuring an individual could start a small mining venture and grow that effort and diligence into operating rigs that have a respectful hashrates. ASICs technology threatens the balance that has exists because it is disrupting the level playing field. Those who can afford to pay a premium to adopt ASICs hardware early have such a massive hashing advantage that even the advantages of the best FPGA setup will rapidly evaporate as difficulty level rise at an exponential rate. This leades the FPGA miners scrambling for extra FPGA units and trying to squeeze out every last drop of effency from their FPGA setup. The run on ASICs and FPGAs raises the prices and causes an increasingly diminished supply of ASICS and FPGA units.



     GPU miners tend to be the types of people that have limited resources, dual purposing by using their rigs for gaming and mining or are trying to earn enough coin to upgrade to better mining rigs. Humble GPU mining can still be (to an ever decreasing extent) vaible for some miners and a few short months ago had pretty decent hashrates but not for much longer. The GPU miners are rapidly being left out in the deep, cold emptiness of crypto-mining space with warp drives that are failing because of a quantum shift in the alternate laws of mining physics.

     These GPU miners are being further disparaged by the scarcity and rising prices of FPGA and new ASIC hardware. This furthers the class divide between GPU miners and those who can afford to pay a premium and adopt ASICs hardware early and FPGA miners who are able to keep up and eventually transition to ASICs hardware because GPU miners generally cannot afford or cannot aquire the hardware to upgrade. By the time the few remaining GPU miners are able to upgrade many of them may never be able to catch up because the hardware requirements to make mining feasible have continued to increase at an exponential rate without their participated. To further the STAR TREK analogy, these straggling GPU miners will be droped from the warp conduit simply because they ran out of antimatter while trying to catch up to bigger, faster and more advanced starships leaving them disparagingly adrift forever in the sameness of space as the the other GPU miners that preceded them.

     This is the type of situation that has historically given rise to desperate levels of poverty in ordinary societies, it is simple economics coupled with human self protectionism. A digital future is our worlds destiny and whether or not bitcoin will survive far into that future is irrelevant, but the conduct of the bitcoin community will greatly influence the nature of humanities destiny within that future and is instrumental in laying the foundation for what kind of society humanities future is built on. So how we, the bitcoin community, behave during this transitional shift has profound significance for the quality of life of future generations. The question I pose to you is this; are we, at this profound and criticle moment in history, going to perpetuate the blind sins of the past because of short sighted self preservationizm and greed or are we going to create a revolution in the human condition for the benifit of all of man.

     The core principle of Bitcoin ideology is the decentralization of currency, and for what pupose? We all know the answer to this question. It is because we all know the evil that men drunk with power will do to his very own blood let alone what he would do to you. But what do you think it means if crypto-coin mining becomes just another resource that only rich corporations can afford to harvest? How different do you think that this situation will be from the way things are now, or the way things have always been? Once a viable crypto-currency is embedded into a culture it becomes no different than any other essential resource and is subject to the same jurisdictions. If crypto-mining is only available to an elite group of wealthy individuals, then it becomes subject to the concerns of the elite. History shows us that elitist tend to be unfair, greedy self preservationist who are susceptible to and often the very architects of political pressure. Ask yourself this question and answer yourself honestly. If you had invested years of your life mining a substantial amount of bitcoin wealth and suddenly you find yourself faced with the decision to either protect the principles behind Bitcoins Ideology and loosing all the wealth you had worked so long to acquire or forsaking the ideology of Bitcoin and keeping all your acquired wealth, minus some taxes and fees, knowing that you'll likely live well the rest of your life, what would YOU do? Again, history shows what most people would do, its a simple matter of self preservationizm. This is why decentralization is so critical.
     
     I think we all agree that we do not want the situation to get to that point, but that is the course it is presently taking and only together can we stop this decent of such a noble endeavor. So what is it that we can do? In many respects the solution is simple in concept, its the execution thats more challenging. The hardest element to overcome is at the core of the human instinct to survive, and that is the instinct of self preservation. This instinct is of course very strong and because human beings are intellectual creatures this instinct is often triggered when our ideas or sense of self are in intellectual danger even though our bodies or lifes may not be. This is the major cause of human irrational behavior. So for the sole sake of logic it stands to reason that if smaller and smaller groups continue to control larger and larger portions of a finite pool of resources then you either must exponentially increase the quantity of the reasources or you must equalize the method of gathering the resources to a broader group of people. Fortunately in this case the resource is is a fabrication of man.

     So with that being said, lets open this up for discussion...  I release it to the floor...

________________________________

The bureaucratic mentality is the only constant in the universe.
-Dr. McCoy, Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home

Great read thanks a bunch!

[JuenoMT]

You SERIOUSLY need to spend much more time in the Economics/Politics section of this forum. You have a lot to learn. This was a very long and very thought out post, and you should be proud of it, but there are just so many misconceptions in it regarding the way people and markets work that it would take for ever to address them all. Sorry.

Thanks, +1 for you. Thats the first reply to one of my posts that I can respect.

[JuenoMT]

The easiest solution to your problem are the pass through shares and mining pools available for sale on one of the bitcoin stock exchanges. You can be a part of a mining pool or gain a share in a mining company for a very small investment and when you have enough you will be allowed to vote on the key issues for that security.

If you look at the distribution of blocks right now it is clear that their is a fairly good distribution of mining power. Unfortunately your late arrival to the game makes it impractical for you to start mining without a significant capital investment. As you said this is the way of the world and if you want to get exposure to mining their are still ways to do it, just not through direct personal investment.

Thanks for the advice, I know your trying to help and I appreciate it a lot. If you read a little closer you might see that I already understood most of what you advised.

[JuenoMT]

Great read thanks a bunch!

Thanks, I appreciate the support!

[Elwar]

You speak of GPU miners as though they would be making big money today if it were not for FPGAs and ASICs.

The reality is that back in the day CPU miners were complaining in the same way that people who can afford to buy expensive GPU cards had an unfair advantage and were taking away the decentralization of Bitcoin. That anyone should be able to just turn on their money and start making money.

Back then, the investment in a $1,000-$2,000 graphics card may net you $1,500 to $2,000 worth of bitcoins. Sometimes people lost money on mining.

Then FPGAs come along and outpace the GPUs. These cost more and the return is slightly more because the Bitcoin price has gone up a bit more. Then ASICs come along and they cost more and the return is again slightly more because the Bitcoin price has gone up a bit more. But the percentage has remained fairly constant no matter which hardware has been used.

But the thing here is, there is a large chasm between the fastest hardware available today for mining and the next level (quantum computing).

We are in the early adopter phase of ASICs. Several companies are working to mass produce these by the hundreds of thousands.

In the future you will be able to order an ASIC at a much lower cost and have it shipped out within days. Hell, just before quantum computing comes out you may be able to go to your local Best Buy or Walmart and buy a Bitcoin ASIC miner next to the roku boxes.

The more people that are able to use these ASICs will mean that the difficulty will be higher and the payout will not be as high as it is today, but the price will be higher so more than likely there may be a return similar to what people have received before. But the key is that they will become even more decentralized. There is no "next" technology to pool money for like the ASICs that will give you an advantage over everyone else.

If you are a physics major your best way forward would be to look into quantum computing and focus on that because I guarantee that once Bitcoin takes off, the sprint will be to be the first to come online with a quantum miner. But the technological leap will be years in between so we will be able to enjoy cheap ASICs for quite some time.

They key to the faster technologies is that the faster they are, the more secure Bitcoin will be, and the worries of a 51% attack by any outside entity will be a thing of the past.

[rikur]

FIXED: The Biggist Threat To My Beer Money And The Student Loan Re-Painment

Good luck with the PhD, you can do it! :--)

[kodo]

Hello fellow MineCoinians,

      I am a true believer in the pure and honest morality of freedom and even though I am fairly new to the crypto-currency community, for this reason I am very excited about the ultimate potential of the BTCitcoin ideology. Though I hold no religious theology as true and absolute, I do believe that man has, over the eons, collected a great deal of wisdom and that wisdom is most of often found in the various religious text of history. One of the most quoted religious phrases from the hebrew and christian bible is that 'money is the root of all evil.' You most likely have heard this phrase many times before, but that phrase does not exist. What is actually written is that 'the LOVE of money is the root of all evil.' It is this fragment of ancestrial wisdom that I wish to bring to lite so as to address the logic behind my assertion. Decentralization, the very foundation of the Bitcoin ideology, is at serious risk of annialation.

      First and foremost I want to be honest about what brought me to this moment in my life. I am a college student studing for a double major (computer enginering and physics) and working towards an eventual PHD. Because of past mistakes I have serious financial trouble so holding a job wouldn't be worth it after creditors and uncle Sam take their cut from my paycheck. I was searching online for a way to make an income that would not take to much time away from my studies when I came across bitcointalk.org. I immediately downloaded and installed bitcoin-qt and the bitminter client and fired up my GTX690. After some days passed it became apparent that it was going to take awhile to make very much money at all so I started to research my options. This research of course revealed the world of FPGA mining rigs and the latest holy grail of miners... the ASICs rig. At that point I became very discouraged, not so much because FPGA and ASICs hardware was too expensive and out of reach, but that FPGA and ASICs hardware was too expensive and out of reach for me in my situation. This fact is the critical link that enduced my awarness of the major point I wish to make in this article.

     I did alot of brainstorming trying to figure out a way to improve my situation and I came to one inevitable conclusion, I cannot do it alone. The best option I could imagine was to set up a special mining pool just for raising funds to build/purchase an ASICs mining farm soley to provide all the mining participants in the pool with their own ASICs rigs. This is another key to my argument, as I conducted my research on mining pools I became highly aware of the negative impact that a scarce supply of ASIC mining hardware will have.

     There will always be disparity between classes in wealth, thats just the nature of life. Bitcoin mining has offered a more level playing field because with careful planning and proper financial structuring an individual could start a small mining venture and grow that effort and diligence into operating rigs that have a respectful hashrates. ASICs technology threatens the balance that has exists untile now because it is disruptive to this level playing field. Those who can afford to pay a premium to adopt ASICs hardware early have such a massive hashing advantage that even the advantages of the best FPGA setup will rapidly evaporate as difficulty levels rise at a sudo exponential rate. This leades the FPGA miners scrambling for extra FPGA units and trying to squeeze out every last drop of effency from their FPGA setup. The run on ASICs and FPGAs raises the prices and causes an increasingly diminished supply of ASICS and FPGA units.

     GPU miners tend to be the types of people that have limited resources, dual purposing by using their rigs for example; gaming and mining, or are trying to earn enough coin to upgrade to better mining rigs. Humble GPU mining can still be (to an ever decreasing extent) vaible for some miners and a few short months ago had pretty decent hashrates but not for much longer. The GPU miners are rapidly being left out in the deep, cold emptiness of crypto-mining space with warp drives that are failing because of a quantum shift in the alternate laws of mining physics.

     GPU miners are further disparaged by the scarcity and rising prices of FPGA and new ASIC hardware.  GPU miners generally cannot afford or cannot aquire the hardware to upgrade. This furthers the class divide between GPU miners and those who can afford to pay a premium and adopt ASICs hardware early and the FPGA miners who are able to keep up then, eventually, transition to ASICs hardware. By the time the few remaining GPU miners are able to upgrade, many of them may never be able to catch up, mstly due to the hardware requirements making mining feasible have continued to increase at an sudo exponential rate without their participation. To further the STAR TREK analogy, these straggling GPU miners will be droped from the warp conduit simply because they ran out of antimatter while trying to catch up to bigger, faster and more advanced starships leaving them disparagingly adrift forever in the sameness of space as the disenfranchised GPU miners that preceded them.

     This is the type of situation that has historically given rise to desperate levels of poverty in ordinary societies, it is simple economics coupled with human self protectionism. A digital future is our worlds destiny and whether or not bitcoin will survive far into that future is irrelevant, but the conduct of the bitcoin community will greatly influence the nature of humanities destiny within that future and is instrumental in laying the foundation for what kind of society humanities future is built on. So how we, the bitcoin community, behave during this transitional shift has profound significance for the quality of life of future generations. The question I pose to you is this; are we, at this profound and criticle moment in history, going to perpetuate the blind sins of the past because of short sighted self preservationizm and greed or are we going to create a revolution in the human condition for the benifit of all of man.

     The core principle of Bitcoin ideology is the decentralization of currency, and for what pupose? We all know the answer to this question. It is because we all know the evil that men drunk with power will do to his very own blood let alone what he would do to you. But what do you think it means if crypto-coin mining becomes just another resource that only rich corporations can afford to harvest? How different do you think that this situation will be from the way things are now, or the way things have always been? Once a viable crypto-currency is embedded into a culture it becomes no different than any other essential resource and is subject to the same jurisdictions. If crypto-mining is only available to an elite group of wealthy individuals, then it becomes subject to the concerns of the elite. History shows us that elitist tend to be unfair, greedy self preservationist who are susceptible to and often the very architects of political pressure. Ask yourself this question and answer yourself honestly. If you had invested years of your life mining a substantial amount of bitcoin wealth and suddenly you find yourself faced with the decision to either protect the principles behind Bitcoins Ideology and loosing all the wealth you had worked so long to acquire or forsaking the ideology of Bitcoin and keeping all your acquired wealth, minus some taxes and fees, knowing that you'll likely live well the rest of your life, what would YOU do? Again, history shows what most people would do, its a simple matter of self preservationizm. This is why decentralization is so critical.
    
     I think we all agree that we do not want the situation to get to that point, but that is the course it is presently taking and only together can we stop this decent of such a noble endeavor. So what is it that we can do? In many respects the solution is simple in concept, its the execution thats more challenging. The hardest element to overcome is at the core of the human instinct to survive, and that is the instinct of self preservation. This instinct is of course very strong and because human beings are intellectual creatures this instinct is often triggered when our ideas or sense of self are in intellectual danger even though our bodies or lifes may not be. This is the major cause of human irrational behavior. So for the sole sake of logic it stands to reason that if smaller and smaller groups continue to control larger and larger portions of a finite pool of resources then you either must exponentially increase the quantity of the reasources or you must equalize the method of gathering the resources to a broader group of people. Fortunately in this case the resource is is a fabrication of man.

     So with that being said, lets open this up for discussion...  I release it to the floor...

________________________________

The bureaucratic mentality is the only constant in the universe.
-Dr. McCoy, Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home

I see you edited your original post and made some great revisions. Again, great read keep up the good work and post more!

[bitzox]

Thanks for the advice, I know your trying to help and I appreciate it a lot. If you read a little closer you might see that I already understood most of what you advised.

I see you edited your original post and made some great revisions. Again, great read keep up the good work and post more!

The Ninja edit, works wonders when tying to prove you are right!

[Rassah]

By the way, I'll just add that ideally, or at least long-term, bitcoin mining profit should approach zero. It doesn't matter if you are mining with CPU, GPU, or ASIC, as long as there is any profit at all, more people will start mining, until the difficulty gets high enough to where everyone only makes just enough to cover their costs. So in that sense, even if you do get an ASIC, you will rapidly be left in the cold, still, as other people also get more ASICs, and then you may end up with an expensive hardware device that you have no means to pay off.

[JuenoMT]

FIXED: The Biggist Threat To My Beer Money And The Student Loan Re-Painment

Good luck with the PhD, you can do it! :--)

LOL ...Like!

[JuenoMT]

Thanks for the advice, I know your trying to help and I appreciate it a lot. If you read a little closer you might see that I already understood most of what you advised.

I see you edited your original post and made some great revisions. Again, great read keep up the good work and post more!

The Ninja edit, works wonders when tying to prove you are right!

Ha... ya, the first time was kinda late for me, just tried to clean it  up a bit.

 But thanks!

EDIT: (This one's for you)

I subscribe to the theory of "Less Wrong" were absolute truth is = x/0.

We cannot be 100% correct from any single prospective so we can only be Less Wrong, the closer to truth we get the more elusive truth becomes.

Therefore, I was only trying to be less wrong through clarification, I think this is the process in any honest debate,... No?

[JuenoMT]

I see you edited your original post and made some great revisions. Again, great read keep up the good work and post more!

Thanks!

[Elwar]

What is actually written is that 'the LOVE of money is the root of all evil.' It is this fragment of ancestrial wisdom that I wish to bring to lite so as to address the logic behind my assertion.

“did you say it’s the love of money that’s the root of all evil? To love a thing is to know and love its nature. To love money is to know and love the fact that money is the creation of the best power within you, and your passkey to trade your effort for the effort of the best among men. It’s the person who would sell his soul for a nickel, who is loudest in proclaiming his hatred of money–and he has good reason to hate it. The lovers of money are willing to work for it. They know they are able to deserve it.

“Let me give you a tip on a clue to men’s characters: the man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it.

“Run for your life from any man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper’s bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another–their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun.

“But money demands of you the highest virtues, if you wish to make it or to keep it. Men who have no courage, pride or self-esteem, men who have no moral sense of their right to their money and are not willing to defend it as they defend their life, men who apologize for being rich–will not remain rich for long. They are the natural bait for the swarms of looters that stay under rocks for centuries, but come crawling out at the first smell of a man who begs to be forgiven for the guilt of owning wealth. They will hasten to relieve him of the guilt–and of his life, as he deserves.

“Then you will see the rise of the men of the double standard–the men who live by force, yet count on those who live by trade to create the value of their looted money–the men who are the hitchhikers of virtue. In a moral society, these are the criminals, and the statutes are written to protect you against them. But when a society establishes criminals-by-right and looters-by-law–men who use force to seize the wealth of disarmed victims–then money becomes its creators’ avenger. Such looters believe it safe to rob defenseless men, once they’ve passed a law to disarm them. But their loot becomes the magnet for other looters, who get it from them as they got it. Then the race goes, not to the ablest at production, but to those most ruthless at brutality. When force is the standard, the murderer wins over the pickpocket. And then that society vanishes, in a spread of ruins and slaughter.

“Do you wish to know whether that day is coming? Watch money. Money is the barometer of a society’s virtue. When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion–when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing–when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors–when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don’t protect you against them, but protect them against you–when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice–you may know that your society is doomed. Money is so noble a medium that is does not compete with guns and it does not make terms with brutality. It will not permit a country to survive as half-property, half-loot.

“Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money, for money is men’s protection and the base of a moral existence. Destroyers seize gold and leave to its owners a counterfeit pile of paper. This kills all objective standards and delivers men into the arbitrary power of an arbitrary setter of values. Gold was an objective value, an equivalent of wealth produced. Paper is a mortgage on wealth that does not exist, backed by a gun aimed at those who are expected to produce it. Paper is a check drawn by legal looters upon an account which is not theirs: upon the virtue of the victims. Watch for the day when it bounces, marked, ‘Account overdrawn.’

“When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, ‘Who is destroying the world? You are.

“You stand in the midst of the greatest achievements of the greatest productive civilization and you wonder why it’s crumbling around you, while you’re damning its life-blood–money. You look upon money as the savages did before you, and you wonder why the jungle is creeping back to the edge of your cities. Throughout men’s history, money was always seized by looters of one brand or another, whose names changed, but whose method remained the same: to seize wealth by force and to keep the producers bound, demeaned, defamed, deprived of honor. That phrase about the evil of money, which you mouth with such righteous recklessness, comes from a time when wealth was produced by the labor of slaves–slaves who repeated the motions once discovered by somebody’s mind and left unimproved for centuries. So long as production was ruled by force, and wealth was obtained by conquest, there was little to conquer, Yet through all the centuries of stagnation and starvation, men exalted the looters, as aristocrats of the sword, as aristocrats of birth, as aristocrats of the bureau, and despised the producers, as slaves, as traders, as shopkeepers–as industrialists.

“To the glory of mankind, there was, for the first and only time in history, a country of money–and I have no higher, more reverent tribute to pay to America, for this means: a country of reason, justice, freedom, production, achievement. For the first time, man’s mind and money were set free, and there were no fortunes-by-conquest, but only fortunes-by-work, and instead of swordsmen and slaves, there appeared the real maker of wealth, the greatest worker, the highest type of human being–the self-made man–the American industrialist.

“If you ask me to name the proudest distinction of Americans, I would choose–because it contains all the others–the fact that they were the people who created the phrase ‘to make money.’ No other language or nation had ever used these words before; men had always thought of wealth as a static quantity–to be seized, begged, inherited, shared, looted or obtained as a favor. Americans were the first to understand that wealth has to be created. The words ‘to make money’ hold the essence of human morality.

“Yet these were the words for which Americans were denounced by the rotted cultures of the looters’ continents. Now the looters’ credo has brought you to regard your proudest achievements as a hallmark of shame, your prosperity as guilt, your greatest men, the industrialists, as blackguards, and your magnificent factories as the product and property of muscular labor, the labor of whip-driven slaves, like the pyramids of Egypt. The rotter who simpers that he sees no difference between the power of the dollar and the power of the whip, ought to learn the difference on his own hide– as, I think, he will.

“Until and unless you discover that money is the root of all good, you ask for your own destruction. When money ceases to be the tool by which men deal with one another, then men become the tools of men. Blood, whips and guns–or dollars. Take your choice–there is no other–and your time is running out.”
http://capitalismmagazine.com/2002/08/franciscos-money-speech/

[bitzox]

Therefore, I was only trying to be less wrong through clarification, I think this is the process in any honest debate,... No?

Then why not just make another post with clarifications, or make your edits clear so newcomers to the discussion would see both he original and the edited? To do otherwise smells of intellectual dishonesty, but that's just my 2 satoshis.

[Spendulus]

You SERIOUSLY need to spend much more time in the Economics/Politics section of this forum. You have a lot to learn. This was a very long and very thought out post, and you should be proud of it, but there are just so many misconceptions in it regarding the way people and markets work that it would take for ever to address them all. Sorry.

Well, yah.  That's what I was thinking.  Obviously intelligent and capable, but not having read Hyack, Simons, Grisham, ... wait...

That's a lot of work.  How about just checking out some Peter Schiff youtube videos?

or some other youtube?  What's the quickie intro to economics of the under?

[JuenoMT]

What is actually written is that 'the LOVE of money is the root of all evil.' It is this fragment of ancestrial wisdom that I wish to bring to lite so as to address the logic behind my assertion.

“did you say it’s the love of money that’s the root of all evil? To love a thing is to know and love its nature. To love money is to know and love...

O.k.,... I think you have got the wrong idea about the point of this article, it is not about money. I don't understand how you came to such a conclusion about what I wrote. This is a reply I posted in a thread about greed... from this you can derive my opinion about money...

It's not at all greed. Any Money fills 3 functions:

1) Unit of account
2) Store of value
3) Medium of exchange

Money simply means that I can sell my old camera then maybe buy some pizza with some of the proceeds vs trying to find someone will accept a camera for a pizza, and then give me something that is worth the camera-the pizza for change. Money fulfills a function that allows an economy to work to some degree of efficiency.  

Nice concise summary of the function of money but I would add to this concept by saying that money represents time. We spend time to acquire ____________(write anything.) But even this is not quite right, the true equation is

money = |(life SPENT)*value|

were;

       (life SPENT)  is equal to Life Span - {Life Span + [years:months:days:hours:minutes:seconds of work done to acquire ____________(write anything.)]}

                   and value is equal to (what we are willing to take as compensation for life SPENT that will never be experience again).

Therefore we get this function for greed (if we define greed as purely a moral nagative acquaintances (i.e. selfish action without any real positive or intended benefit for others beyond ones inner circle of acquaintances),

Greed(x) = [someone elses |(life SPENT)*value|^x / [your |(life SPENT)*value|]

were;
                

x is equal to unfair compensation for someone elses |(life SPENT)*value|

OR

an unfair advantage to acquire ____________(write anything) that is used with disregard or contempt for someone else

Greed is not necessarily intentional, it can happen over time and catch an individual unaware. Yet once at the point of being greedy it is hard to stop because of the human instinct for self preservation and resource protection.

In fact I highly value the effort that others put forth to acquire their desires, just not when they do so at an undue cost to anothers efforts to acquire their own desires, which I make clear with this reply from yet another post...

What is BTCitcoin you ask?

Like all forms of Money,

a BTCitcoin is a measure of how much we Value

a single unit of our Lifes Energy,

or at least it is the Value we place

on the Time we have spent doing work,

Time which we shall never see again.

So, can you point to a single comment that I made that implies that I "hate" money, which you seemingly atribute to me?

My agenda is the equality of opportunity to acquire ones needs and desires. This agenda requires the preservation of ones right to acquire wealth in accordance to ones efforts. I can tell you this though, an unjust disparity occurs when one obtains many fold the wealth of another while only putting a small fraction of the effort as that same other.

Most minimum wage jobs require a large degree of physical labor compared to most highly paid careers and many people I have known who are at the bottom of the pay scale work far harder than many millionaires. But that is not the issue either but it does serve to show the consequences of wealth disparity. People that make good money have a wealth advantage that vastly improve the odds that they'they'll get a good education which makes it easier to get a high paying job or take advantage of certain wealth generating circumstances. People of average or lower economic status are not as likely to have the same advantages. Higher pay typically means lower physical labor but often more hours, low pay typically means a high degree of physical labor and average 40hr week. But, the lowest pay typically involves a high degree of physical labor and more hours. This lowest end of the pay spectrum is essentially like a death trap.

What I propose is that we take this historic event and use it to end this disparity for good at the dawn of a new age. It can be done because we are the architects of the foundation of the coming era.