Bitcoins : currency or collectibles ?

[niothor]

I would like to know your opinion on this charts.

First , they aren't the price charts  that everybody talks about, and from my point of view these are far more important. I'm talking about the charts at blockchain.

Two of them which I find higly intriguing:

a) Number of transactions (unique) per day:
http://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions

b) Number of unicque bitcoin adresses used
http://blockchain.info/charts/n-unique-addresses

My opinion (if those charts are accurate) is that we're going in the wrong way , instead of building a currency we're collecting stamps.

PS. I do use bitcoins for selling stuff. (doesn't matter what kind of stuff)

[Hawker]

Right now, Bitcoin is a collectible.  That is inevitable - if people have to choose between banks that pay less than 1% real interest and then pay tax on that interest and Bitcoin where annual rates are well over 100%, of course they will put some of the high risk part of their portfolios into Bitcoin.

All this will change radically if and when an easy way for ordinary folk to switch between fiat and Bitcoin emerges.  Instead of the tiny pool of people who are willing to bother sending money to Japan to get an esoteric investment, people will be able to switch at, for example, the forex desk in a travel agent.  Bitcoin will be used for remittances by immigrants and for lots of other activities that are smothered in bank charges right now.  Also, the huge increase in liquidity that comes with retail exposure will stabilise the price. At that point, Bitcoin will be of more use as a currency.  And each Bitcoin will be worth $10s of 1000s.

[niothor]

All this will change radically if and when an easy way for ordinary folk to switch between fiat and Bitcoin emerges

There are easy ways to get bitcoins , I don't think this would be a problem.

I think the problem is with the fact that less and less old bitcoin users want to spend their bitcoins and by doing so they actually sabotage the future of bitcoins.

I know people who have tons of bitcoins are waiting for it to get to 1k , 2k , 1.9 billions usd and get rich by just selling one.
Hell ,  I did the same thing at 199 (i honestly didn't believe it will go over 200) but after the price calmed down a bit I HAD to continue on buying and selling bitcoins even with the 10% day drops or ups because  I have to run my shop.

But , and this is the reason I opened this thread , people who are currently dealing with bitcoins and merchandise are themselves begining to hoard bitcoins.
And the sweet irony , yesterday a client asked me to switch to (xx self censoring for obvious reasons xx) , because he want to KEEP his coins. Common!!!!!!!
 

[Hawker]

All this will change radically if and when an easy way for ordinary folk to switch between fiat and Bitcoin emerges

There are easy ways to get bitcoins , I don't think this would be a problem.

...snip...

No there aren't.  I don't know where you live but here in the UK, there is no place where I can wander in and buy Bitcoin the way I can wander in and buy Euros.  There are no easy ways to get Bitcoins. 

[niothor]

All this will change radically if and when an easy way for ordinary folk to switch between fiat and Bitcoin emerges

There are easy ways to get bitcoins , I don't think this would be a problem.

...snip...

No there aren't.  I don't know where you live but here in the UK, there is no place where I can wander in and buy Bitcoin the way I can wander in and buy Euros.  There are no easy ways to get Bitcoins. 

Eastern Europe.

But if methods of getting them online failed , or I didn't have enough funds in different payment solutions i always turned to local bitcoins.
I have a few miners I've been buying from over the last 9 months , and because of that I can sometimes get them even cheaper than gox.

Of course for somebody  in different parts of the world it might be troublesome , I must say I have no idea of how this goes elsewhere.

[Hawker]

All this will change radically if and when an easy way for ordinary folk to switch between fiat and Bitcoin emerges

There are easy ways to get bitcoins , I don't think this would be a problem.

...snip...

No there aren't.  I don't know where you live but here in the UK, there is no place where I can wander in and buy Bitcoin the way I can wander in and buy Euros.  There are no easy ways to get Bitcoins. 

Eastern Europe.

But if methods of getting them online failed , or I didn't have enough funds in different payment solutions i always turned to local bitcoins.
I have a few miners I've been buying from over the last 9 months , and because of that I can sometimes get them even cheaper than gox.

Of course for somebody  in different parts of the world it might be troublesome , I must say I have no idea of how this goes elsewhere.

So you sent money from Eastern Europe to Japan where it was used to buy Bitcoin.  Talk to your neighbours and ask them if that is the normal way to get a currency?  It isn't.  While people have to jump through so many hoops to get Bitcoin, they will be mainly collectibles.  And when a retail solution is found, the currency will get to its true market value and work as a currency.  For example, Poles in England will be able to send their earnings to their families in Poland far cheaper than they do now.

[niothor]

All this will change radically if and when an easy way for ordinary folk to switch between fiat and Bitcoin emerges

There are easy ways to get bitcoins , I don't think this would be a problem.

...snip...

No there aren't.  I don't know where you live but here in the UK, there is no place where I can wander in and buy Bitcoin the way I can wander in and buy Euros.  There are no easy ways to get Bitcoins.  

Eastern Europe.

But if methods of getting them online failed , or I didn't have enough funds in different payment solutions i always turned to local bitcoins.
I have a few miners I've been buying from over the last 9 months , and because of that I can sometimes get them even cheaper than gox.

Of course for somebody  in different parts of the world it might be troublesome , I must say I have no idea of how this goes elsewhere.

So you sent money from Eastern Europe to Japan where it was used to buy Bitcoin.  Talk to your neighbours and ask them if that is the normal way to get a currency?  It isn't.  While people have to jump through so many hoops to get Bitcoin, they will be mainly collectibles.  And when a retail solution is found, the currency will get to its true market value and work as a currency.  For example, Poles in England will be able to send their earnings to their families in Poland far cheaper than they do now.

Of course it's not the normal way , but if we do stop buying bitcoins in this "unusual" way and wait for a savior , the savior will never come , who's gonna be interested in a currency that gets 40k transactiosn day and  still falling.

Bitcoin has a future only if it's used not if it's getting hoarded.
From my point of view bitcoin can get to 10k or back to 2 usd as long as it's stable I don't care as long as all those speculators drop dead.

The reason I started this thread is that with all the media hype , with all the users claiming good news and better news and the best news for bitcoins, thousands of shops opening for bitcoins , thousands of investments the results are getting worse and worse day by day.

Currently we're sliding to transactions/users/volume of december august 2012 and If people don't do something to help their dream (even if it means to get your bitcoins from a samurai) this dream will end like many others have ...

[ThatDGuy]

All this will change radically if and when an easy way for ordinary folk to switch between fiat and Bitcoin emerges

There are easy ways to get bitcoins , I don't think this would be a problem.

...snip...

No there aren't.  I don't know where you live but here in the UK, there is no place where I can wander in and buy Bitcoin the way I can wander in and buy Euros.  There are no easy ways to get Bitcoins.  

Eastern Europe.

But if methods of getting them online failed , or I didn't have enough funds in different payment solutions i always turned to local bitcoins.
I have a few miners I've been buying from over the last 9 months , and because of that I can sometimes get them even cheaper than gox.

Of course for somebody  in different parts of the world it might be troublesome , I must say I have no idea of how this goes elsewhere.

So you sent money from Eastern Europe to Japan where it was used to buy Bitcoin.  Talk to your neighbours and ask them if that is the normal way to get a currency?  It isn't.  While people have to jump through so many hoops to get Bitcoin, they will be mainly collectibles.  And when a retail solution is found, the currency will get to its true market value and work as a currency.  For example, Poles in England will be able to send their earnings to their families in Poland far cheaper than they do now.

Of course it's not the normal way , but if we do stop buying bitcoins in this "unusual" way and wait for a savior , the savior will never come , who's gonna be interested in a currency that gets 40k transactiosn day and  still falling.

Bitcoin has a future only if it's used not if it's getting hoarded.
From my point of view bitcoin can get to 10k or back to 2 usd as long as it's stable I don't care as long as all those speculators drop dead.

The reason I started this thread is that with all the media hype , with all the users claiming good news and better news and the best news for bitcoins, thousands of shops opening for bitcoins , thousands of investments the results are getting worse and worse day by day.

Currently we're sliding to transactions/users/volume of december august 2012 and If people don't do something to help their dream (even if it means to get your bitcoins from a samurai) this dream will end like many others have ...

I agree with Hawker completely on this - the difficulty of exchanging fiat to Bitcoin for people who aren't Bitcoin aficionados is very high right now.  Even then, just getting them is not sufficient because there are so many easy ways to lose them if not handled carefully.

Once these barriers to entry (and exit) are lowered, Bitcoins potential can be much more fully realized.

[cbeast]

A Century ago, Uranium was used as an energy drink because they only saw it as an energy emitter. It took a small group of brilliant scientists many years to make something really useful with it. Combining elliptic curve cryptography and p2p networking are like the invention of fission. Now is when the fun starts.

[Spendulus]

So you sent money from Eastern Europe to Japan where it was used to buy Bitcoin.  Talk to your neighbours and ask them if that is the normal way to get a currency?  It isn't.  While people have to jump through so many hoops to get Bitcoin, they will be mainly collectibles.  And when a retail solution is found, the currency will get to its true market value and work as a currency.  For example, Poles in England will be able to send their earnings to their families in Poland far cheaper than they do now.

I would guess most people have never done an international wire transfer and would be completely scared of anything like that.  It does not mean it is complicated, but it is simply outside their warm fuzzy blanket of feelings.

A good question here would be the history of Paypal.  Buying and selling on ebay, people received credits and debits for Paypal.  Some did more sales than purchases, others the reverse.  Money flowed into the Paypal system and circulated.   After the ins and outs of the transfers, a net balance gradually built up in the system.

Very similar process occurring with bitcoin. Some may not know or remember this, but moving money into and out of Paypal at the first was not easy for many people.  For example, my teenage son, with no bank account, did this by getting money orders and mailing them to paypal.  Then he started building up his balance by selling CDs on ebay and taking paypal.

The difference between Paypal and Bitcoin, which is easy to point out, is that for an appreciating asset such as Bitcoin, the balance build up in the virtual economy will be accelerated.  With a depreciating asset such as the USD or most others, by design one is encouraged to spend it .... eg, trade it for goods or services.

[ThatDGuy]

So you sent money from Eastern Europe to Japan where it was used to buy Bitcoin.  Talk to your neighbours and ask them if that is the normal way to get a currency?  It isn't.  While people have to jump through so many hoops to get Bitcoin, they will be mainly collectibles.  And when a retail solution is found, the currency will get to its true market value and work as a currency.  For example, Poles in England will be able to send their earnings to their families in Poland far cheaper than they do now.

I would guess most people have never done an international wire transfer and would be completely scared of anything like that.  It does not mean it is complicated, but it is simply outside their warm fuzzy blanket of feelings.

A good question here would be the history of Paypal.  Buying and selling on ebay, people received credits and debits for Paypal.  Some did more sales than purchases, others the reverse.  Money flowed into the Paypal system and circulated.   After the ins and outs of the transfers, a net balance gradually built up in the system.

Very similar process occurring with bitcoin. Some may not know or remember this, but moving money into and out of Paypal at the first was not easy for many people.  For example, my teenage son, with no bank account, did this by getting money orders and mailing them to paypal.  Then he started building up his balance by selling CDs on ebay and taking paypal.

The difference between Paypal and Bitcoin, which is easy to point out, is that for an appreciating asset such as Bitcoin, the balance build up in the virtual economy will be accelerated.  With a depreciating asset such as the USD or most others, by design one is encouraged to spend it .... eg, trade it for goods or services.

Really good points - I had forgotten about those early days of Paypal!

One other difference between Paypal and Bitcoin that cannot be understated, though, is that Paypal charges anywhere from 2.9% + $0.30 per transaction for US up to 3.9% plus another fixed fee for international transactions.  There are and will be fees for Bitcoin services that offer ease-of-use, but at a very intrinsic level, with some effort and escrow, it's possible to send Bitcoin anywhere with internet access, for anything.

[niothor]

Transaction volume has gone below 100k , lowest since november 2012 , same for the number of transactions.

Of course , nobody wants to use it as a currency since it's gonna be worth 300k usd by December

[BTConomist]

Very similar process occurring with bitcoin. Some may not know or remember this, but moving money into and out of Paypal at the first was not easy for many people.  For example, my teenage son, with no bank account, did this by getting money orders and mailing them to paypal.  Then he started building up his balance by selling CDs on ebay and taking paypal.

Now, did $100 moved into Paypal remained $100 until being spent or moved out? The bitcoin block chain, on the other hand, keeps count of what's moving through it, not what's stored in it. Notice the difference? The former is setup as a temporary storage, the latter is merely an accounting ledger.

[glendall]

I think Bitcoin does really encourage colleciton and hoarding, as the value goes up so reliably.

I know for me personally I'm pretty free with my fiat. I spend it often without much thought on some frivilous stuff.

For whatever reason, not for BTC. To cash out fiat from BTC for me is really unappealing. No one can pry the BTC from my cold sweat cyberpalms !  I'm always looking to expand my amount of BTC and only ever spend it on further investments, or a few rare purchase.