Bitcoin Forum
December 02, 2016, 06:19:11 PM *
News: To be able to use the next phase of the beta forum software, please ensure that your email address is correct/functional.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 [19]  All
  Print  
Author Topic: How to run an Anarchy  (Read 15807 times)
MoonShadow
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1666



View Profile
July 08, 2011, 07:56:34 PM
 #361

tl/dr

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
1480702751
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480702751

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480702751
Reply with quote  #2

1480702751
Report to moderator
1480702751
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480702751

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480702751
Reply with quote  #2

1480702751
Report to moderator
1480702751
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480702751

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480702751
Reply with quote  #2

1480702751
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
July 08, 2011, 08:03:06 PM
 #362

tl/dr

lol. Imagine if a physicist wrote the constitution. I couldn't find any loopholes.

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
FredericBastiat
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 420


View Profile
July 08, 2011, 08:12:24 PM
 #363

tl/dr

lol. Imagine if a physicist wrote the constitution. I couldn't find any loopholes.

In my #360 post/thread about what the law is, that's exactly how I wrote it. It is physics.

If the law does not coincide with the laws of physics (known to man thru observation and empirical evidence) followed by experimentation, then you merely have dogma, indoctrination, personal opinion, or religion.

To be clear here. I have no beef with anybody's religion or opinions etc. But the second you make it law, I'll take issue with it. Law is force legalized. We all should be very careful as to its application per chance we commit acts of plunder, enslavement or murder/injury (these being in direct opposition to protection of life, liberty, and property).

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=21217.msg341902#msg341902

Right??

http://payb.tc/evo or
1F7venVKJa5CLw6qehjARkXBS55DU5YT59
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
July 08, 2011, 08:15:29 PM
 #364

tl/dr

lol. Imagine if a physicist wrote the constitution. I couldn't find any loopholes.

In my #360 post/thread about what the law is, that's exactly how I wrote it. It is physics.

If the law does not coincide with the laws of physics (known to man thru observation and empirical evidence) followed by experimentation, then you merely have dogma, indoctrination, personal opinion, or religion.

To be clear here. I have no beef with anybody's religion or opinions etc. But the second you make it law, I'll take issue with it. Law is force legalized. We all should be very careful as to its application per chance we commit acts of plunder, enslavement or murder/injury (these being in direct opposition to protection of life, liberty, and property).

Right??

I'd be happy to have you as a neighbor. That's not something I say lightly.

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
FredericBastiat
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 420


View Profile
July 08, 2011, 08:18:26 PM
 #365

tl/dr

lol. Imagine if a physicist wrote the constitution. I couldn't find any loopholes.

In my #360 post/thread about what the law is, that's exactly how I wrote it. It is physics.

If the law does not coincide with the laws of physics (known to man thru observation and empirical evidence) followed by experimentation, then you merely have dogma, indoctrination, personal opinion, or religion.

To be clear here. I have no beef with anybody's religion or opinions etc. But the second you make it law, I'll take issue with it. Law is force legalized. We all should be very careful as to its application per chance we commit acts of plunder, enslavement or murder/injury (these being in direct opposition to protection of life, liberty, and property).

Right??

I'd be happy to have you as a neighbor. That's not something I say lightly.

Have you read my post? I'd welcome all opinion and critiques. Bash away. Thanks for the neighborly invite Smiley

http://payb.tc/evo or
1F7venVKJa5CLw6qehjARkXBS55DU5YT59
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
July 08, 2011, 08:24:08 PM
 #366

Have you read my post? I'd welcome all opinion and critiques. Bash away. Thanks for the neighborly invite Smiley

As I said, I couldn't find any loopholes. 6.1 appears to outlaw Intellectual property. Did I read that right?

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
FredericBastiat
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 420


View Profile
July 08, 2011, 08:42:33 PM
 #367

Have you read my post? I'd welcome all opinion and critiques. Bash away. Thanks for the neighborly invite Smiley

As I said, I couldn't find any loopholes. 6.1 appears to outlaw Intellectual property. Did I read that right?

I'm curious what "tl/dr" means MoonShadow.
I am a physicist and engineer.

Here's the thing about IP. One must define what property is. If it is in physical things, and those things can be possessed, then they become property. For property to be property it has to have some degree of exclusivity (at least for a measurable amount of time). IP is real property while it resides in your head or hidden in a pattern on a piece of parchment. However, once you let the cat out of the bag, that pattern, knowledge, truth, or fact becomes public, then others can now retain a similitude of that knowledge. In fact it's now almost impossible to prevent the dissemination thereof.

To then claim that semblence or pattern now contained on another man's property, is to claim that property itself. IP has the problems associated with censorship and theft. We all emulate each other and nature. That's how we learn and change behaviourly. If I were the first to "invent" or "discover" that 1+1=2 or how to build a house, then I could reasonably coerce all of mankind. And thru my heirs and assigns effectively force the world to yield to me for the use of that knowledge forever.

It's bad enough that we fight over scarce things. But now were trying to intentionally create scarcity thru force and manipulation of other's property. Yikes!

http://payb.tc/evo or
1F7venVKJa5CLw6qehjARkXBS55DU5YT59
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
July 08, 2011, 08:51:56 PM
 #368

Have you read my post? I'd welcome all opinion and critiques. Bash away. Thanks for the neighborly invite Smiley

As I said, I couldn't find any loopholes. 6.1 appears to outlaw Intellectual property. Did I read that right?

I'm curious what "tl/dr" means MoonShadow.
I am a physicist and engineer.

Here's the thing about IP. One must define what property is. If it is in physical things, and those things can be possessed, then they become property. For property to be property it has to have some degree of exclusivity (at least for a measurable amount of time). IP is real property while it resides in your head or hidden in a pattern on a piece of parchment. However, once you let the cat out of the bag, that pattern, knowledge, truth, or fact becomes public, then others can now retain a similitude of that knowledge. In fact it's now almost impossible to prevent the dissemination thereof.

To then claim that semblence or pattern now contained on another man's property, is to claim that property itself. IP has the problems associated with censorship and theft. We all emulate each other and nature. That's how we learn and change behaviourly. If I were the first to "invent" or "discover" that 1+1=2 or how to build a house, then I could reasonably coerce all of mankind. And thru my heirs and assigns effectively force the world to yield to me for the use of that knowledge forever.

It's bad enough that we fight over scarce things. But now were trying to intentionally create scarcity thru force and manipulation of other's property. Yikes!

Thought so. Good. tl/dr is 'Too long, Didn't read'.

I'll grant you it's jargony. But it defines its own jargon and doesn't over do things. Easier to read scienceese than legalese.

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
FredericBastiat
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 420


View Profile
July 08, 2011, 08:54:31 PM
 #369

Have you read my post? I'd welcome all opinion and critiques. Bash away. Thanks for the neighborly invite Smiley

As I said, I couldn't find any loopholes. 6.1 appears to outlaw Intellectual property. Did I read that right?

I forgot to mention that 6.5 and 6.6 also reinforce what 6.1 implies. That being, intellectual property, or whatever you wish to call it, cannot force another man from his property without his consent. You cannot break the cardinal rule of "no theft, no injury", if the property cannot be exchanged with proper incentive sans coersion. To wit, you would commit an act of plunder thru legislative fiat. Simple Simon.

Lysnander Spooner said it eloquently,

"If they can offer him no inducements, sufficient to procure his free consent to part with it, they must leave him in the quiet enjoyment of what is his own."

http://payb.tc/evo or
1F7venVKJa5CLw6qehjARkXBS55DU5YT59
FredericBastiat
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 420


View Profile
July 08, 2011, 09:05:06 PM
 #370

My apologies for the jargon and length. It was as short as I could reasonbly make it without leaving loopholes and unanswered questions.

It is my personal belief that my "Law" document contains the entirety of the definition of Law. I wish I could have made it shorter. Any shorter, and you have might have to start assuming things. Not something scientists like to do as they tend to get called on it. Some parts of 6.x could be condensed, I suppose.

Of course, this document doesn't suggest one type of government over another, nor the application thereof, just the template for such things, as it were.

At the very least, there could be less confusion as to why one man justifies the application force against another and under what circumstances.

Unfortunately, when life isn't "fair" we jump on the legislative bandwagon without realizing what the consequences are.

http://payb.tc/evo or
1F7venVKJa5CLw6qehjARkXBS55DU5YT59
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
July 08, 2011, 09:12:16 PM
 #371

My apologies for the jargon and length. It was as short as I could reasonably make it without leaving loopholes and unanswered questions.

heh. 'Sorry it's so long'.

You condensed a concept as complex as a rational legal framework into a single page and managed to keep it relatively readable, and you apologize for the length.

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
MoonShadow
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1666



View Profile
July 08, 2011, 10:30:23 PM
 #372

Although I can agree it's a well written document, I still say that Maybury's Two Laws represent the shortest body of law ever devised.

1)  Do all that you have agreed to do.

2)  Do not encroach upon another's person or property.

Granted, there is a lot of room for interpretation; but there is something to be said for a legal framework that can be printed onto a bumper sticker.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
July 08, 2011, 10:41:16 PM
 #373

Although I can agree it's a well written document, I still say that Maybury's Two Laws represent the shortest body of law ever devised.

1)  Do all that you have agreed to do.

2)  Do not encroach upon another's person or property.

Granted, there is a lot of room for interpretation; but there is something to be said for a legal framework that can be printed onto a bumper sticker.

'An Ye harm none, do as ye will.'

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
FredericBastiat
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 420


View Profile
July 09, 2011, 12:05:43 AM
 #374

Although I can agree it's a well written document, I still say that Maybury's Two Laws represent the shortest body of law ever devised.

1)  Do all that you have agreed to do.

2)  Do not encroach upon another's person or property.

Granted, there is a lot of room for interpretation; but there is something to be said for a legal framework that can be printed onto a bumper sticker.

'An Ye harm none, do as ye will.'

Ok if we're all for brevity we could just say: 'Protect Contract'

Why "protect contract". Well that's easy. You can't have self government without control over your own life. If you have that right, then you have a right to property - to which you can make a title claim. Without such property claim, your life cannot be sustained. From those former 2 premises constitutes ones liberties, choices, decisions and or agency over what is one's own. Once you assume that, every interaction (if consensual) between men can be defined as contract. Even simple barter exchange represents a simple contract. Contract implies an absence of coersion and force, otherwise it would just be theft, rapine or expropriation. But that would be assuming a lot of things.

So 'PROTECT CONTRACT'. There you go. Was that short enough for ya?

http://payb.tc/evo or
1F7venVKJa5CLw6qehjARkXBS55DU5YT59
LastBattle
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 84



View Profile
July 09, 2011, 05:37:53 AM
 #375

I'm afraid I'm at least partially to blame for that... I have a tendency to conflate "libertarian" with "anarchist" due to the fact that I consider Anarchism to be the inevitable end of following libertarian principles in a consistent fashion.


No worries.  If it could exist in the real world (and it can't) libertarian society would very quickly degrade into anarchy, which is why I tend to interchange the two.

Well, IDEALLY that is what would happen, but then that is just my perspective.

From my point of view, the idea is that libertarianism is presented in a modest form, people get used to the idea, and then take it to its logical conclusion and the state withers away. This has the benefit of getting people in the right mindset so to speak; if the apparatus of the state disappeared, there would be mass chaos for about a week and then governments would probably pop right back into existence again because people wouldn't be able to conceive of anything else.

Alternatively, it might stay that way for a very long time. I would be fine with that too. Or it might grow again, which is why a lot of ancaps refuse to bother working within the system.

You're standing on a flagstone running with blood, alone and so very lonely because you can't choose but you had to

I take tips to: 14sF7NNGJzXvoBcfbLR6N4Exy8umCAqdBd
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
July 09, 2011, 05:44:49 AM
 #376

Or it might grow again, which is why a lot of ancaps refuse to bother working within the system.

It will grow again, just as if you leave one cancer cell, eventually you will have a tumor again. That is why I prefer the Agorist method of getting people used to dealing without the state to the Minarchist.

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
em3rgentOrdr
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434


youtube.com/ericfontainejazz now accepts bitcoin


View Profile WWW
July 09, 2011, 07:01:51 AM
 #377

Or it might grow again, which is why a lot of ancaps refuse to bother working within the system.

It will grow again, just as if you leave one cancer cell, eventually you will have a tumor again. That is why I prefer the Agorist method of getting people used to dealing without the state to the Minarchist.

+1.  Don't say.  Just do.  Others will be inspired and join you.  Agorism.

"We will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography, but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years.

Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks, but pure P2P networks are holding their own."
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
July 09, 2011, 07:12:38 AM
 #378

Or it might grow again, which is why a lot of ancaps refuse to bother working within the system.

It will grow again, just as if you leave one cancer cell, eventually you will have a tumor again. That is why I prefer the Agorist method of getting people used to dealing without the state to the Minarchist.

+1.  Don't say.  Just do.  Others will be inspired and join you.  Agorism.

Well, I prefer to say and do, but to each their own.

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
NghtRppr
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476


View Profile
July 09, 2011, 07:33:19 AM
 #379

Or it might grow again, which is why a lot of ancaps refuse to bother working within the system.

It will grow again, just as if you leave one cancer cell, eventually you will have a tumor again. That is why I prefer the Agorist method of getting people used to dealing without the state to the Minarchist.

+1.  Don't say.  Just do.  Others will be inspired and join you.  Agorism.

Well, I prefer to say and do, but to each their own.

Sometimes you can just say without actually doing. The mere threat of doing is often enough.
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 [19]  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!